[000:00:00;00] and i would put hope in the foreground, because well, we know, yes , the curse of the family, which can weigh, hang, put pressure on itself, it definitely exists, yes, because the golden age gives way to the silver, and then up to the iron, but nothing good does not happen to the world, therefore, always, memory speaks of a curse, but on the other hand, memory speaks of the best, precisely because the past is happy, this childhood, for example, it almost always has a connotation. sinless, transparent existence, and the more you remember, the more you hope that you are in every moment you live in your fullness, and not in the incompleteness that seems to you, the right vanity, i just now, when evgenia germanich you said that sometimes you want to get rid of something, but i thought, i remembered, or rather the thought, not my thought about about what confession is, it’s a cry to god, lord, don’t remember me

like this. that is, don’t remember me committing this act: forget it, well, it’s funny to ask god to forget something, but that ’s the whole idea, well, not repentance, but repentance is probably based, no, moreover, i i think that repentance, confession is overcoming time, you return to the time before the sin, as it were, because this sin is washed away, it goes away, the only difference is this, you return... to the previous time, but with the memory of sin , this is already a hint of the absence of time, of the absence before and after, and there is simply a repentant sin, and there may be a desire to prevent it from happening again, it is washed away, but the scars remain, the scars remain, well, the famous line of pushkin, but

the lines are sad or shameful, i don’t wash away the options, but this is a very important story, because that even if you want to get rid of the memory, i agree with my wife, then the work is not to get rid of it, but to understand that it is given for something, well, because there are no tests of superpowers, we understand perfectly well, even if it is a bad memory, a memory of a sinful state of soul or an action, then it is still not given in order to be equal to it, memory is what makes us unequal to ourselves in the best sense, look how natural we are now then let's move on to the actual content of the concept, here equal, unequal, yuri mikhailovich lotman said that man is memory, culture is memory, i always tell students that to substantiate this you don’t need a lot of evidence, imagine that you wake up tomorrow and don’t remember anything, yes, then, what you don’t remember is not there, that is , it turns out that memory is

a culture-forming phenomenon, excuse the... involuntary academicism and a human-forming phenomenon. and the question then is this: is a person identical to memory, or forgetting, or not? there is wisdom unburdened by knowledge, here is someone who has dealt with wise old people, in old age and a person, sometimes he does not remember any specific things, but at the same time he is wise, he is absolutely error-free in his choice, although he can no longer justify it in any way. perhaps tolstoy had something similar in mind when he said that a person , leaving for another world, takes with him memory, but memory not of specific events, but memory as a certain sum of ideas of good and evil, this is a certain extract that already exists in isolation from specific events, that is, the memory of an old man

, the memory of a child, i’m not talking about that. in mind that a person falls into childhood at some point, i mean it more like this, we are approaching our beginning, so this is the same lack of fullness of memory as in childhood, but only after, with experience, experience does not disappear anywhere, it is extremely interesting , to be honest, at the beginning, when you said not burdened by memory, i grinned , because a different associative series arose for me, but what’s in a lot of wisdom, a lot of sadness, i thought that’s what you’re talking about? but you are talking about something completely different, but about wisdom, which is filled with sadness, probably in some sense, yes, but now he can afford to not remember some individual episodes, yes , yes, absolutely right, i don’t know the etymology, but i’ll be such a preobrazhensky or fasmer improviser, it seems to me that this comes from the word and mother and take, memory , yes, she is always selective, you can’t remember everything, and zhenya is absolutely right and wise here, yes, that is

, we are not talking about some details, episodes, they can also be remembered, but it is important that memory constructs itself, yes, i will return my previous thoughts, it changes me, but the task a person to remember himself correctly, besides, well, all the extraneous things, but what does it mean to remember himself correctly, you know, a person very often still records different moments in his life, especially a believer, he thinks about how to preserve the main thing in himself, correctly in a moral sense, that is, again to what we were talking about, to catch yourself correctly, in life there are different things, there are mistakes, there are sins, but it is important to catch construct to see the correct one about yourself, because i am the same boy, which hid under a blanket from my mother and read books, and i’m the same... who will not be a boy, but will someday die at this moment, like all of us, yes, but it’s important to remember yourself correctly, this is permissible at any second, in in youth, in old age, yes, absolutely right, we said, by the way, before the start of the adante program, he has an amazing plot, i’m not

sure that he is found anywhere else in this form, he has two rivers, summer and eve, summer is a river that washes away bad memories, then a person crosses to evnoe, which is nearby, in general flows, it consolidates the good, this is a good mind , yes, if i correctly describe, again, the mind, yes , this is probably the case, maybe this system, it should work like that, who knows, dante, in general, was not such a specifically spiritual authority... but the very idea of ​​something like this is very close to my heart, because even the idea of ​​hell, there is an opinion that hell is the inability

to leave from bad memories that when you see all the beauty of paradise, then at that moment you i become incredibly ashamed of myself, this memory burns. maybe this is, well, this is what chagin suffers from in your novel of the same name, yes , that is, this is actually it, i perceived it as an experience of hellish torment, and he does not know how to forget, he cannot forget his own, he can forget , and this is really so, absolutely true, either like judas should hang himself, and either he will repent, so he repents, and the sincerity of this repentance allows him to come up with a new poem odysseus, in which he gives his new life. i am far from convincing the reader that they just need to rewrite, no, they need to repent, and then as such a gift, maybe, maybe, i’m not

saying, it’s more of a question, is it possible to get away from bad memories and stay with good ones before death. today we gathered our thoughts about memory, its secrets and mysteries. dmitry petrovich bak, evgeny germanovicholan, i’m vladimir legoyda, let’s continue. but look, memory is not only that we forget something, but that we remember something. by and large augustine writes about this, he says that this is such a palace in which memories are stored that are either an understatement or an exaggeration, in any case, the interpretation of this word is not a construction of selectivity, but of reality. and so, actually, in a broad sense... this question, in a narrow sense, a little narrower, then the question is about the value of memoirs as historical documents, because in general, what are

memoirs, this is the memory of an individual person, and the memoirs of another contemporary about the same events will be different, how to perceive it, well, if you allow, i would still start with forgetting, so that this topic does not disappear. because we are always in this earthly desolation faced with the realization that we have to forget, yes, something completely different, yes, i always repeat the quatrain of my beloved georgy ivanov, if a new life, oh soul, opens in a black grave, how good it must be for us to forget on earth, yes, that is, this moment of possible forgetting of what seems valuable before the face of some other memory, this is not a memoir, of course, a memoir, this is a personal experience , yes, well, a memoir, it’s natural, memory, but this is such a memory that is very truly

selective and special, this is not what actually happened in quotes, because the point is the most mysterious point. in general, by the way, even at the stage of perception, the three of us are sitting and we see completely different things. here is a wonderful neurophysiologist alexander yakovich kaplan, when i consulted with him, about roman chagin, he said that even at the stage of vision, vision - this is not optics, this is the brain, the picture is formed in the head, not in the eyes, and a person is able to see what was not there or not see what

is. now, right at the entrance, this is a completely special picture , and then how it all goes through memory, what changes it undergoes, this is only in general, one can be surprised, that is, memory, it stores completely different things, this is not what they are worth five cameras take five identical pictures. this is a completely different story, and memoirists should, well, at least be checked, well, yes, if we want historically, i just know, i thought of something else, here the bridge is thrown directly to the topic of imaginary memories, not just interpretations, again in chagin there is this nikolai ivanovich, yes, this story about a business trip to britannia, i’ll be honest, i still want to think that these are not real, when in the end i think that he came up with it all? i don’t like it, i don’t like it, i’ll assume that’s what happened, but

in fact, here’s another chaplan, ours, the author of a wonderful woman, he’s in his article on chagin, yes, he wrote that he, as a mathematician, immediately remembered complex numbers, parts of which are imaginary quantities , but the point is that this creates a kind of volumetric vision, and then you know, i immediately begin to think further, i remember lotman, who says, that art is the experience of the unlived, the most important human experience. than it is more than it really is, that is, it is almost art, yes, that is, art without art, no, well, it realizes itself in very different ways, annarenina, for example, anna karenina, i am convinced that everything that with her happened, stems from the desire that she experiences when opening a book in the carriage, even at the very beginning, when she goes to reconcile steve and his wife and there she meets vronsky with her mother, meets vronsky himself, she so wanted to live the lives of all

the heroes, yes, that’s the whole point, i think that the reader also experiences it himself, as a child i so wanted onegin not to kill lensky, when i re-read it, but suddenly he won’t kill, i thought, that is, this is generally fiction, this is in principle the law of art, when you perceive art, you think that it reliable, in general, memoirs are reliable not in the sense that they correspond to some kind of case itself, as genet put it, they correspond to your conviction, your rightness, there is no rightness, remember the paintings of picasso or picasso, as it is convenient, you can pronounce, where two dora maar's nose, yes, because he wants to see her right away and profiles full face, we see each other's full face, but there are other sides, so any memoirist is firmly convinced that he is writing the truth, even if he specifically wants distort it, like zhorzhik ivanov of st. petersburg. in a word, for me

the most valuable thing in memoirs is subjective. yes, here in kotaev’s grass of oblivion, he describes him there, how he considers his friendship with bunin, so that bunin asked him something all the time and was interested in him, well, mayakovsky asked him, but bunin in the accursed days, and to him, a single phrase completely destroys. i don’t want to repeat it, that he would have sold everyone, including there, if they had paid, here are the memoirs of two people, and about specific ones, they are not contradictions to each other, these are two truths, they both are true, but solomon’s court, it’s kind of impossible to say here, but what he sold or didn’t sell is not the question, well, yes, but it’s just surprising, so to speak, the range of opinions, well, yes,

although here, you know, i involuntarily remember this famous buddhist parable, five or how many four blind men who approached the elephant, from different sides, and one, that means, who cares, he is absolutely right, he says that it is a snake or a wall, a rope, yes, yes , in this the memorist is always like this, he cannot embrace everything at once, he cannot embrace this volume to give vision, vision in general, this is our apparatus, we do not see infrared, a bat sees, so what about experience, in fact, i have always been fascinated by the fate of an actor, a great actor who has... indeed, if he is deeply serious in the understood sense refers to his work, then he can actually live several lives and can live them with full dedication, this is a colossal experience, if you approach it correctly, but the actor is not required to read, after all, complete

by the way, this is a very interesting topic, it is a little we might be taken away now, yes, but maybe we’ll stop for a second, because we can live, we can’t live, according to the system, not according to the system, again, nikita sergeevich mikhalkov told me, when in his family, mardyukovo, one phrase, oh you, 40 takes, 40, and he says that if you approach , she plays so hard that every time an ambulance takes her away, that is, he says, it’s just a professional mistake, yes, that is, the actor should be able to instantly switch off like -because otherwise, these experiences, they are already on the verge of schizophrenia are there, no? as stanislavsky says, and i, since i teach at amkhat, i really love konstantin sergegevich , he says a simple thing, that you can’t play anything, you can only grow, develop something in yourself, it must be your true emotion, yes, it is necessary find something in your life that leads to this

emotion and make it your own, appropriate it, and this is scary, of course, on the one hand, this is several lives, and on the other hand, it’s like a station, after all, there shouldn’t be a distance . no, i teach acting a lot years, so i won’t do this all the time, i won’t argue with you, today we gathered with thoughts about memory, dmitry petrovich bak, evgeniy germanich vodolaskin, we continue, i’m a student all the time trying to explain, why memory, they say , well, as it is, well, now we can say that they will turn off the internet, before they said they won’t turn it off, now we understand that the electricity may go out for some time, yes, but i really liked it, tatyarov and i. we were talking about this topic once, and i said, well, what is memory for knowledge, for education? she says, but memory is not about remembering information that is not knowledge, but about contexts, associations, but this, if you don’t have this on your shelves, yes, then it’s very

difficult to collect this this mosaic of knowledge, as this thesis resonates with you, of course, this is a complex existence or existence in context, it is necessary because, well, let’s say, if you raise a person, here in the sans souci palace, surrounding him with a wall , then nothing it won’t turn out good, by the way, it’s a wonderful novel by alexei varlamov, my soul, pavel, this is about this, this is the same model, here, uh, in general there’s a huge problem, how many artistic things are based on hiding something from someone

so that he doesn’t know, doesn’t remember, most often these are all unsuccessful attempts , so memory, it is certainly contextual, for example, when i remember something, i often don’t even remember exactly what was said, but i remember where with what facial expression. i wonder if this is some kind of synesthesia, or do i remember what there was a smell at that moment, let’s say, the smell of sleepers at the station, olfactory memory, it is considered one of the strongest, i remember dmitry sergeevich likhachev said that from childhood he remembers the smell of heated food. boxwood, the crimean smell, and he says, when i am now an old man, i hear this smell, my mood immediately improves, memory is not information that can be presented like this in three pages, memory is the whole totality, it is the world of god, how he

appears every moment, but in all his completeness, therefore, strictly speaking, this always excited me, so i tried to describe it the way it comes , not as information, a report about something, in all these, for example, if a child is lying in bed, then he sees drawings on both, he runs his finger over to these drawings, while his grandmother reads robinson cruz to him, everything in the world is connected, this is about this: at kharms, remember, everyone goes on trams and doesn’t know how everyone is connected to each other, but we need to remember this, well, we heard a wonderful essay , and from the mouth. evgenia vodolaskina is just a fragment from a novel, but i don’t want an essay, but this kind of gelertorsky

thesis. eh, vladimir ramanovich, you asked a little about something else, that’s how it is, yes, this is not knowledge, because, my two favorite examples, evgeniy borisovich pasternak, he said to me twice that his father said that if the gospel had the power of mathematics, then there would be no evil in the world , well, because no person, believer, non-believer, this... buddhist, whatever, can say that he does not distinguish where is good, where is evil, in the gospel, well, it’s clear, it ’s clear, like 2:2, like a theorem, but nevertheless the world is in evil, so we need some more effort, identification with you, i remembered for the rest of my life a phrase from the memoirs of alexei feodovich, losevev, it’s like this, i know it from memory, when i first learned that the sum of the angles of a triangle is equal to two right angles, i realized that from now on this is my truth , mine and no one else will take it away from me, you see, this moment is missing, yes, newton’s law. he came to newton as an insight that he understood this at that moment, and things were falling with the acceleration of free fall and before he formulated it,

this device that we all have in pocket, he accustoms us to something else, yes, that there is simply naked truth, memory, spied on it, and it’s as if you appropriated it, nothing like that, you need to make it your own, appropriate it with a hyphen, but still, in your example from the gospel , it seems to me that another difference is that scientific knowledge is, well, if you like , violent, yes, of course. i found out that 2.2, and if i argue with this, then maybe they will take me, but only to kashchenka, dostoevsky says 2:2 besides me there will be, not dostoevsky, i am an underground person, yes, yes, let's say knowledge, here is the connection of oneself with the gospel truth, it requires a volitional choice , knowledge of the multiplication table, well, it requires, this is another will, yes, but this thing sets us up, that this effort requires almost nothing, yes, well, since i noticed, i tell the students, what should you do 40 years ago if you don’t remember where a line of a poem comes from

? by the way, you know, i’m talking about these people who steal memory i also wanted to talk, because look, we started with the fact that culture is a collective memory, yes, and a person is an individual memory, but what happens is that this may be too bold a generalization, although in essence it seems to me true, any information ... the revolution, it seriously gives an increase in collective memory, begins the invention of writing, and printing , and it also hits the individual, always, yes, the iliad odyssey appears in oral culture, the need disappears, individual memory decreases, i had a classmate, which evgeny onegino knew by heart, could continue from any moment, we perceived him as an epic hero already , although probably for the ancient greeks he was, well , what’s there to remember, but individual memory, well, we can’t do anything about this, yes, this this is an unsolvable story, that collective memory with the help of everything

, it is somehow still, well, more or less unsolvable, because a person, of course , lives a short life, it takes him some period of time to get involved in this buzzing collective creativity, yeah universal, so he gets an education, he turns on, turns on, he’s just turned on , he already has to think about the eternal, so, well, yes, here ’s how it is... such a thing, personal memory and historical memory. in fact, 90 percent of a person is formed by personal memory and personal experiences. here is historical memory, it is included in it, like some small 10%, the prehistory of its existence, they are the most important, but for a person as a spiritual phenomenon, what is important, first of all,

is personal memory, personal, so, ah, it’s like some preface, also connected, yes, because if your personal memory includes dante, there, i don’t know, the french revolution, like what you know about it, the history of the gospels, this, this is the meeting place, yes, here is the individual and collective, in any case in this sense. this is something that ultimately becomes one’s own, it is so absorbed by a person that it passes on , this too, it must be said, is a special phenomenon when something moves from the sphere of abstract knowledge into your personal history, i just remember myself, uh, some things, they became facts of my life, for example, ups and downs with dickins’s characters, this was me, and this is inseparable from me, this is what a person appropriates

himself, masters, makes his own, this moves from the category: general historical memory into the personal category, this is really, you know, but now a thought just occurred to me, maybe it’s quite immature, but it seems to me that in some sense, collective memory, or something that belongs to the background knowledge, in some sense, can change faster than individual, maybe i’m wrong, but now i thought, they left our background context, for example, ilf and petrov, well, here i am with the students, when i’m trying to say that i once said that your answers remind me like shura balaganov, a lively monotomist... recounted the contents of the brochure myateshno ochakova, i thought that the answer would be a friendly laugh, but the answer was such bewildered looks, what are you talking about , yes, it remains in my individual memory, that is, collective in this sense has changed faster than not, it’s just a large volume, because there are the same number of seconds in a day as 2,000 years ago, yes , there are a lot of carriers fighting for us, not only ilf petrov, but trifonov has disappeared, for example, there is no comparison between trifonov and elf

i don’t teach petrov, but, but there is no person who doesn’t have trifonov in his head, or makanin, well, here’s another one, i, when i tell students that this is, well, a classic, well, an absolute classic of a certain time, vladimir semenovich makanen, this name doesn't exist at all, because well, we are so used to the fact that literature, art and our life in general exist according to the principle of the media , according to the principle of the informational occasion, what is remembered is what catches you, as the younger generation says, and what doesn’t catch you goes away, yes, indeed, and this... mm, such a serious story, well, some kind of unconditional classic , if i may say so, still remains, for me, in a sense, this is still an example of greatness, or something like a work, yes, because sometimes it would be better not to remain, my famous question, i ask a student, pushkin is a genius? but why? i can’t say, yes, but how , like ulato, you love pushkin, so you hate it, i immediately begin to tell why zhenya could also be confident,

why i can’t live without him, yes, but something that it is absolutized on the tablets, it is written down forcibly, it disappears, yes, an absolutely amazing story, i sometimes read fragments of chagin, in public, and there i have a story about lenin and pechnyak, texts by tvordovsky, zoshchenko and nikolai ivanovich, so i see, no one laughs, no reactions, i say, the audience is quite. not a single one, that is, i’m not saying that everyone should read it, but in our country everyone knew it, yes, but it was part of the language, yes, here it’s an independently living phrase, but here it’s absolutely, here’s the generation gap, here maybe it’s not the worst, this is not something

that needs to be repeated day and night and the stove-maker, but it shows how... but the generation works, what different experiences they have, well, this is the other side of accessibility, the notorious democracy, yes, because accessibility means absence , once i'm in front of the big one the audience said, well, let me say a line from mandelstam, who can continue, continue, i didn’t even say a line, but two words, enough of the sulking, the audience stood up, as if i were hosting a parade and said: let’s put the papers in the table, yes, when was that , this is not, well, these were people my age, ours? but there is nothing on this disc, this is important, your thesis, i actually first heard it from you several years ago, when you said that this is all about accessibility, information and even knowledge of some kind turns around, just get it, i really like teodoro adorn’s phrase:

in order to fully perceive the music, you still need to get to where it is performed. terribly important, a symphony, there is no sound recording, there is no technical reproducibility according to benjamin, yes, so if you want to hear a symphony , you must understand where it is performed once a year, yes, get there, to the philharmonic in another city then listen, now, what are we doing, click, click, the ninth bitch, yes, the first scriabin, but this is not completeness, this lightness, which is false, and lightness is even something more, as i remember, i don’t know. spoke, who had not used a mobile phone for a long, long time , and he was talking about some priest he knew, who had a dog barking on the call, he says, why, he says, well, this is an alert, here i am a man from the village, when someone came to us, lailla the dog, and when excuse me, you are in the restroom and vivalda, and yes , and this is something like that, well, this is

some kind of cultural breakdown of some kind, combination one process and another are incompatible. dear friends joke so riskily, well, we didn’t have time, of course, i think i’ll have to gather my thoughts again, i wanted to talk more about the memory of time, a little about continuing the topic of forgetting, well, maybe with your permission next time , and you know what i would like to finish with, well, in a sense, we are in captivity of pragmatism today, yes, i would like to ask you, i have an instrumental question, if you think memory training is important, can you you can advise something, for this very training, i’m not generally the one who could advise regarding memory, but it seems to me that that is, i... heard and i think that this is so, you need to learn poetry, that’s exactly what i say, they say that in a foreign language it’s better, well, it’s possible, only in your own language it’s less, less

effective, but i’m against the word to teach, you need to learn, you need to learn, and they just remember good poems, live them, lie on the heart, national goal, but russian literature is poetry, yes, that’s how it is the quintessence of language, any speech dies at the moment. our utterances include you and me, here are the poems they are forever, yes, poems, they are generally a universal remedy for everything, likhachev said that during the blockade, when it was -20 in the room, it was impossible to read a book, everyone was lying under all the blankets, but he says , but they read poetry out loud, it could be done, and it saved, i agree, completely, poetry in russian and not in russian. not in russian, i agree with you, but it has a special charm, it’s still an effort, unless of course it’s native your second language, yes, that is

, you understand in a special way what neutata postoch is, a non-fictional word, not fox, not okonada inne, not blyska, well, polish is not my native language, but this is mickiewicz and it perfectly allows you to save difficulties in learning russian, in this regard, what i really like, they say the ancient greeks used it, the pythagoreans, not the pythagoreans, i don’t know, when you’re already going to bed, going to bed, try to remember the day, in all its details, in all the smallest details , this, well , firstly, you fall asleep immediately, they say, if,

if you practice, yes, well, indeed, memory is trained, thank you very much, dear friends, i really don’t want to part with you, but time is inexorable, but we still have memory, evgeniy germanovich vadolaskin, dmitry petrovich bak, today we gathered our thoughts about memory. hello, this is witnessstein's podcast and its hosts: i, film historian, stanislav dizdinsky, and i, film historian, natalya ryabchikova. why witnesses from einstein? sergei ezenshtein is still one of the largest figures in the history of the russian movie. and everything that makes up this movie seems to revolve around it, esenstein’s witnesses are us, we are the witnesses of how russian cinema was created and continues to be created, we want to make sure that modern viewers find it pleasant,

interesting, and useful to watch classic, popular, little-known, forgotten films of russian cinema, and today we will talk about gleb panfilov’s film the beginning, which was released in the seventies, but despite the fact that it is known, maybe not everyone knows how it was made, in what context, in what conditions, and what could happen after him in the fate of panfilov, churikova and soviet cinema in general, and panfilov himself, our hero, as a director and as a co-writer of the script, the person who launches, of course, this story, but it launches on his first full-length film from 1967, which is called there is no ford in fire, inna churikova already plays the main role. ponfilov came to this film as not a very young man, and his story, the story of gleb ponfilov, is also important for how

the film turned out, because he started to work as an engineer at a factory, not at all in moscow, and became interested in cinema as such an amateur activity, yes, he began working on television, entered the correspondence department at ovgik at the camera department, and only then came to finish higher courses in screenwriting in moscow. directors, and his first, in fact, full-length film was a film for him personally, far from the first, of course, and this story was read by him in a magazine in 1939. yes, in the magazine red news, it seems there was a story, a plot about the civil war, about a nurse on a train who is also an artist, who was the origin of this plot in 1939? evgeniy gabrielovich. so, who is evgeniy gabrilovich? this is a legendary soviet screenwriter, and in fact, the story with which they began to work, it was a story about the civil war, and this topic came up very often in the work of gabriilovich, it was generally quite

an important point, the civil war, this from the beginning of a new world, the beginning of a new world, yes, that is, that moment when, in which a certain soviet truth was laid down, i would say, from which all young people who tried to live and preach some principles in their lives in the future were based, that is, panfilov needed a new actress for this story, which was written by a screenwriter of the previous generation, and somewhere in some television program, it seems, he saw inna churikova. and perhaps their acquaintance looked the way it looked in the film beginning, the acquaintance of the director and actress, i suggest watching this piece now, yes, let's get acquainted, everyone, hello, you are pasha, and who are you, and i ’m a director, let’s get acquainted, do you want to act in films, a woman with a yoke, no, not a woman.

i want, but what? have you read about jeanne d'arc? but what, who is she? frenchwoman? folk hero? of course i read it, but what? that's good. by this time, inna churikova had already starred in quite a significant number of films, but mostly her roles were small, for example, in yashaga in moscow. how to draw a horse. how to draw a horse? yes, yes, she was one of those heroines of the creative competition. in which participated - the character of nikita mikhalkov, who drew a horse, for the race, there were two teams, in one of which the heroine churikova appeared, it seems that you won’t notice it unless you specifically look, but at the same time she is still noticeable there, you can’t miss it, yes, well, probably, for a larger number of viewers she was remembered in the film drizzle, and she’s a girl with mamashty and eyebrows, very much by the way, in the sixty-sixth year... she also starred in the role of such

a minor friend of the main character in the film elder sister, why is it important, why is this interesting, because our main character, leonid kuravlyov, played in this film, but they didn’t seem to converge , they didn’t combine their storylines, and leonid kuravlyov had been acting since the late fifties, by the mid-sixties he was really famous actor in the leading role, but he has such a role, a little strange, he’s not... a victorious hero , like i was in moscow mikhalkov, not a hero-lover, not a flaming communist, like burbansky, for example, yes, that is, well that is, such a heroic trail does not appear behind him and is not his role arises, he is rather such a simpleton, rather such a guy, as a matter of fact, such a guy lives in the film, his is one of the main roles, iconic roles that created and strengthened his authority, his role on the screen, shokshin’s film.

in general, kuravleg had already become famous throughout the whole country, by that time he was quite such an all-union star, yes, and inna churikova, despite the fact that she played the main role in panfilov’s there is no ford in fire, she’s like- then this film is not very good for the audience was a success when a couple of years later gabriilovich brought a new application to work with panfilov and to work with churikova, in principle everyone said, well... well, this is, in general, a continuation of that story, and this is again a heroine from the people, who is now modern to us the heroine is a factory girl who is ugly, this really seems to me the right move, very straight forward, it is clear that inna churikova is an actress of special talent, and she is not, not an ingénue, not a pink heroina, yes, she is something much more, but what? i needed

panfilov's eyes, i needed a pen, gabrilovich. to come up with one story to understand what you can write further, but then there’s a problem, because there is a legend about this film , which is not very clear how it fits with the documents, in some sources everything is described, let’s say contradictory, and sometimes just completely wrong, even in some books that exist today, they are considered the basis of this story , sometimes they say that panfilov wanted to make a film about joan of arc, they didn’t give it to him, and he made the film the beginning, in fact, everything was not like that, but why suddenly jeanne darc, why did jeanne darc begin? ponfilo, in principle, is interested in such heroines, strong ones, yes, this is generally the theme of his work, if you look further. and his films, in which, of course, the main role is played, as a rule, by inna churikova, these are always strong women, yes, this is the bitter mother, yes, this is vasa, where is vasa zheleznova, the rest of the merchant's wife, who, yes, that is, in in general, these are always

some kind of heroines who rise above the average level, yes, these are always people who have some kind of moral core, there is some kind of fundamental attitude in soul. well, even if we take the very first film that we started talking about, no beard on fire, or whatever it was called , in the literary script holy soul, it’s about a woman who changes the world, yes, of course, then in the sixties, in in general, at the end of the sixties, a theme emerged in soviet cinema, and the theme that the revolution is the work of artists who come up with what the new world should look like, and bring this story to life, or people follow them , inspired by this fantasy, this dream, them with their creativity and it all starts to embody, here is actually joan of arc, she is approximately one of those characters who are built into this line, as we now see in retrospect, and how she successfully complements, continues the heroine, tanya tyotkina,

from bordanet, and becomes one of the bricks, on on the basis of which pomphilov then arranges the entire universe, his female universe, let’s say. well, the legend is this: panfilov wants to make a film about joan of arc, they don’t let him do it, then he comes up with the idea that his modern heroine, whose name is pasha stroganova, is a factory worker girl, plays joan of arc in the film, so, this is a legend, this is a legend, in fact, first there was a script proposal, as often happened, well, somehow it always happened in soviet film practice, first there is a script proposal, which may have nothing at all , in common with the film that we will later see, and this is normal, so in this script proposal that gabrilovich prepared there was nothing about jean strike, that ’s right, absolutely nothing, zero, when we tried to understand where the truth is, yes, on the one

hand we came across interviews, later ones, which came out after the release of the film, where panfilov said that i came up with this story about a simple soviet girl when i was working at a factory, that i looked at in the first and only actually accepted version of the literary script , jeanne dark already appears, it seems to me that she it's time to appear here, we have a small fragment with inna churikova in the role of joan of arc. so, you believe that the true miracle on earth is man, a man who is made of sin, mistakes, inability, weakness, but also strength, valor and purity, you you say, yes, you take too much on yourself, greedy, no, sir , i saw all this in the war, and this is how you justify a man, you consider him one of the greatest

miracles of god, yes, you are blaspheming, jeanne, man - this is dirt, meanness and an obscene vision. yes, sir, he sins, he can be vile, and then it is unknown why he rushes to cut off a rushing horse in order to save a child unknown to him, such a speech is very sixties, in my opinion, here is a man who becomes the center of attention in the thaw years of soviet cinema, this is understandable, this is not a historical jeanne, this is jeanne as soviet filmmakers see her, but there is a mystery, she appears from somewhere in this literary script, on which two authors, gabrilovich and ponfilov, already stand, and at first

gabrilovich is given the script to write, then he gets sick, writes a letter to the studio, it remains in the archive, yes, please read it to my co-authors, kleb panfilo equally, and then zhanna already appears, and later in the interview, it seems to me that panfilov is accurate here, he says that at first we decided that there will be a scene of jeanne's renunciation, that this is our heroine, we need to show her really height, nobility, this factory girl, yes, we convey her inner world through jeanne d'arc, whom she plays, and this is one scene, and then they seem they begin to creep apart, as if more needs to be staged , and more staged, and more staged, and this is already noticed at the level of the director’s script by people at the studio who are very kind- minded. they discuss all this very intelligently, but it’s strange to them why this is so a lot, joan of arc appears in the script, maybe she still needs to be toned down a little, and... the question arises of this strong woman and pasha stroganova,

who is quite the opposite, our heroine, the main one, both should be played by churikova, that is, she plays pasha, who plays zhanna, on the contrary, she evokes the feeling among the editors that this is some kind of too naive girl, but her relationship with the main character, and the main character is married, and to a lonely girl who meets him at a dance , and somehow he turns out to be hers, well, even now you can’t tell boyfriends, because they very clearly write out, in my opinion, even applications, but he spends the night with a friend, spends all the evenings with pasha, she perceives it as a family story, nepotism, but he doesn’t understand how he perceives it, this flank naivety, such absolute openness to the world and feelings, apparently among the very cynical workers

of the studio the film raises questions, well, today churikova’s character itself does not raise any questions for us, because she looks absolutely organic and modern, that is, she she’s quite the kind of girl of our day, here she is - simple straightforwardness, a willingness to throw herself headlong into the shooting of a film, something she doesn’t understand, something she doesn’t understand anything about at all, but she goes there, does it, everything works out for her , okay, maybe inside the image, but it seems to me that modern girls would not fully accept this heroine of pasha stroganova, because for her she has two parts of life, yes, work, she immediately tells arkady to kuravlev’s hero, i i'll become a great actress, and she plays baba ega in children's theater, she is involved in amateur performances, that is, she has a calling, she has this very art that creates life, and there is this arkady, arkasha. one who also has a wife, somewhere, who then comes for his things, takes him back

home, yes, and for pasha, and arkady is more important at some point, at least in the script, than the role, and they talk about this panfilov and gabrilovich, that well, somehow it is disproportionate to you, draws attention to this personal film, this is not one film, these are three films, one about pasha stroganov, the second about film production and since soviet cinema is structured, let us remember that around the same time a wonderful cult film came out, today a film-film by fyodor sailevich khitruk, where on the one hand there is such a parody of the filming of ivan the terrible, sergei izenshtein, well, as it is believed, nevertheless in general, at this moment, interest in soviet cinema is obviously awakening in general in the nature of cinema as such, how it is made, yes, how a certain miracle is created on the screen, this magic of cinema? this is the desire to show

kitchen of cinema, we have already seen a small fragment with the director, who, by the way, is played by a real soviet screenwriter, yuri klepikov , or could have been played by a real soviet director , a student of einstein vladimir vengerov, and there are also other characters, they are even more important in the script, than ultimately on the screen, they were also toned down, an incredibly important character appears in the script, the screenwriter himself, who is clearly based on gabrilovic and they began to say that gabrilovic is a man, even from the twenties, he came in the thirties active in cinema, he is a very interesting writer, he started out as a musician, he is a master, and from the master’s point of view, this character alya gavriilovich appears in the script, he defends our heroine, pasha strogunov, whom the director took on the role of joan of arc , someone doesn’t believe it, let’s look at