find for himself what he can, in what he can recognize himself, because it seems like an event from quite a long time ago, well, after all, for a child, well, the thirties, well, a very long time ago, can i say about the book smoke in the forest, this book was written in our klin, a purely klin work, you know that it’s surprising when arkady petrovich met with readers and read his own to them, by the way, he had a phenomenal memory, he read his books by heart, so, wow, smoke in he peed the fox in the wedge and... when

he read this book to the guys, in fact, the book, if you don’t know when it was written , it can be tied to any time , the boy, actually the boy is a slob , he has two in geography, he doesn’t know how to swim , he was completely lost in the forest, i don’t remember at all, so interesting, and this boy becomes a hero, because he can overcome his fear, when arkady petrovich read this work, then...

it leads us somewhere to the scouts in many ways, well , i think it can lead to the bible, saying, because, because any good deed must be obvious, that’s something we don’t they read it and sometimes this ideological-pioneer subtext, which was later covered, it closed for sure.

melt with pleasure, dear friends. hello, this is a psychic podcast, my name is natalya loseva and we continue to sort through the chests of our problems to look for the most correct keys, even to extremely difficult life situations. today with me in the studio is logotherapist and existential psychologist svetlana shtokareva, head of the higher school of logotherapy at the moscow institute of psychoanalysis. hello svetlana. hello, natalia. our guest oksana, oksana’s request is very clear, oksana, tell me yourself, yes, i’m 38 years old, i ’m married, i have two children, and my big problem is that i still can’t move out from my parents, yeah, we we still live together,

that is, how i was born in this house, how i got married and built my career and gave birth to your children, and to this day we continue to live with my parents, and not only, but also with mine ...grandmother, who will soon be 84 years old, that is, our situation is such that this is a three-room apartment, in which has four generations, three housewives in the kitchen, and we live in one room, that is, i, my husband, our two children, just recently got a kitten, and well, there is such a problem, how many of you in total are currently living in a three-room apartment, seven people , seven people and animals, yes, and you... well, yes, we wanted, we want, but when we start talking about it with my husband, somehow it always turns out that well, it

seems like there is no finances, it seems like we have it’s not enough anyway, well, now it’s still there, even if you take out some kind of mortgage or rent, well, rent, then... then we will have practically nothing left for housing, that is , we always agree that there seems to be no finances, but on the other hand, when we needed a car, we went and bought it, we found finances are for this, but this is more your initiative now, or let’s say, is it your active thought that it’s time to leave, or is your husband also thinking about it? well, i probably voice it more, i start a conversation on this topic more often, since i’m at home more, i’m in more contact with everyone, that’s it. v in principle, he goes to work , returns in the evening, when everyone has already gone to their rooms, and seems to be satisfied with everything, there are weekends, parents sometimes go to the dacha, when, of course, everyone stays at home, here we begin to think more and more often about , that it would be good to separate, well

, in any case, it would be good for your family to have its own corner, you rather, as i heard, if i heard correctly, want to leave your parents in order to separate, yes, so that you can just... separate, but you formulated for yourself, maybe in a conversation with your husband or with your children, or for yourself, but what will this give you? what will you get, what are the pros and cons? well, i asked myself this question, periodically i return to it, and i honestly cannot yet fully answer the question of whether separation has occurred, that is , whether i really, well, how exactly inside, yes , i have already decided for myself... well how i separated from my parents, or somewhere else i resort to them, that is, i also have the same question here , not yet fully resolved within me, what i will get the advantages, well, my great desire is to be a mistress in my own kitchen, to raise my own children, well, just to conduct even

just my basic life the way i want it, okay, but what are the disadvantages, you left, and the disadvantages what, what if i need to go somewhere... not all the time, that is, she won’t be as available every day as always, again, my grandmother, she’s a lively person, she’s a beauty, she absolutely loves to cook, then there is, i know that it will always be delicious, it will always be

delicious, soup with pancakes will definitely always be yes, svetlana, before you enter into a dialogue with our guest, i want to ask you, what is the role of a psychologist in such a situation, well... there’s such a clear answer, what will happen in the dialogue with the client, it’s hard to say, it’s always art and improvisation, but there is a goal of this communication, so... so that a person, well at least in the lagotherapeutic approach, has not just some kind of decision on what to do, but also so that all the forces are activated in order for this the decision was carried out, that is, it is not enough to realize something, it is not enough to understand something, you also need to get some kind of internal consent to implement this decision , a very specific plan of action that could be taken at the very next moment, not just something like this in...

something, something suitable for everyone , i am deeply convinced that with some kind of decision or choice that a person faces, it is not enough for him to make a decision only for himself, it is important for him, it is important for him that all participants in this process also receive something, but at the same time, look, she immediately turns our attention to you pay attention to the issue of separation, that means she’s thinking about it, yes she is. she thinks about creating her own nest, she thinks about

flying out of the nest in which she was, in which she was comfortable, but at the same time, in order to look for worms herself, in order to spread her wings herself, this is important, but at the same time , at the same time, it is also important to show those whom she leaves, if this decision is made, that everything worked out for them, including. that the best parenting is the best parenting when you know that your children can spread their wings and fly on your own, when you watch with delight how they soar in the sky, this is the best, best gift for parents, and if the chick wants this, well, let's help, let's, yeah, oksana, but at first you said that there were seven of you, and i counted six, and me, my husband, two children, already four, mother, father and grandmother, and also a father. yes, we know almost nothing about dad, yes, and this is important, i think, yes, of course,

what kind of relationship do you have with dad, good, good, and with mom too, yes, you said, how does dad treat you, or how it seems to you like him would be true if you created your own nest and started living separately with your family, well, it seems to me that there was a little jealousy, in general, in principle, when i got married, “ it was a little hard for him to accept my husband, especially the fact that my husband came to our territory, so dad probably wanted more for there to be a different relationship, so that initially everything would turn out a little differently, but we had to come to terms with how it turned out, now, uh, dad, well, at least, he says broadcasts what he it’s great with the grandchildren, it’s great that they are here every day, that he comes home from work, he can take them for a walk, that is, like a grandfather, he is now being realized

in all his glory, and how is their relationship now? with your husband, good, good , yes, well, my husband is actually great in this regard, he tries in every possible way to win, tried to win the trust of his parents, to win them over, well, after all, i have them - so i’ll say, they don’t grab, my parents there are some simple stars from the sky. i try to raise boys in such a way that 18, you are independent and the time will come when you

will fly away, each to your own nest, and what message would you give them so that they can do this? you will succeed, i believe in you, try to do everything so that you can live separately, well, i will help you in every possible way, as far as i have the opportunity, but i really want each of you to build your personal life yourself, yes. why is this important to you? probably because i didn't get it. also, why is this important to you? i myself i want this. also, why is it important for you that your children build their own lives on their own, so that they...

move their own legs, and here you can’t replace them with anyone, and you can’t substitute anyone here, everyone must go through their own life, and you said, that you want it so much because you love them, that you proceed from love when you want them to go through life on their own, but at the same time

you said that your parents also love you very much, but would they want to see you... walk through this life on your own, i think yes, but how can this be expressed, this is how their love for you can be expressed in terms of allowing your life to develop independently, this is what message they could address to you, what perhaps you hear from them in this regard , i probably hear it, but maybe i don’t perceive it, or maybe my message is not like that? what do you hear? mom even recently said such a phrase that i’m even ready to sell the dacha in order to invest in an apartment, that is, mom is ready to let you go, yes, but then i objected that i was saying: what are you saying, dacha, i say, this is a family nest, like this, it’s impossible, well, i say, we ’ll find some other way, and my mother

also talks about how, well, there... now we’ll supply gas to the dacha, we can already go there, she said to me, oksan, well , we don’t want to leave this apartment completely, i say, mom, no one is kicking you out, what are you talking about, i say, well, this is your apartment, as if i were saying , it’s we who need to move out, not you, we, well, we need to look for some ways, we need to look for some, well, roads to separate, that is, my mother said that i’m even ready to sell my dacha in order to invest in a new home for you, but then how can you comply? traditions, if you suddenly live separately with your family, you will have your own apartment, your own kitchen, each child has a room, you and your husband will sit in the living room, then go to the bedroom, you have a beautiful view from the window, and you cook yourself , you order food, but then how will there be family traditions that follow from your parents, what

to do with this, holidays, meetings, joint trips to the theater. how we love it do, and after school the children can come to grandma’s house to eat her delicious pies, pancakes , yes, yes, of course, how old are your children? and 6 years old, five, they are still small, yes, small, this is a psychic podcast, watch all other podcasts on the website 1tv.ru. svetlana , can i ask you, look, you somehow immediately very quickly brought oksana onto the line... father, it seemed to me that this was very good, you hit the nail on the head, yeah, and i was watching oksana when you talked about it spoke, and as i read her emotions, it seemed to me that perhaps you would say, really or not? that you are probably even scared that you might upset your father, yes, there is such a thing , yes, that this will be a blow for dad, maybe

this is the hook that holds the whole situation, yeah, what do you think, something there is in this, because i have a feeling that if we are gone, he will become completely bored with life, because every time he comes home from work, it’s there, well, one day he can even pick up the children from the nursery. necessary, that is, he understands that he is flying home from work, he has responsibilities there now, that he will come now, there him to take a walk with them and play with them there or watch something, that is, well , somehow he’s already busy in the evening, and if they’re not there, it seems to me that he’ll get bored, maybe oksana is a hostage to her daughter like that very childish love for dad, maybe here we have just a request for separation, and this is actually a cool story, in general this is a rare situation. when you can have such a warm relationship with your parents, you definitely have something to pass on to your children, they can see how

it’s great when such wonderful, warm relationships are restored between older family members and younger ones, but it’s equally important for children to see that they too, you want to let them go on their own , and it’s important to see an example of how this is possible. because the load will fall far away, because the load will fall through, but they must stand at a distance so that the wind can blow between them, so that there is still some kind of

independence in this column, then this is a good family for marital relationships, and for relationships with different generations to the wind was blowing, so that there would actually be an opportunity to be together separately, to know that i could be alone, that i have something in myself... of course, of course, to meet the children, to see them off, to ensure their safety, to spend time while you perhaps you will be at work,

but on the contrary, new opportunities open up for him in this regard, i also saw, thought, when oksana spoke, talked about their life together, her some kind of deepest tenderness towards her grandmother, and maybe there are some here too some thoughts when you think that... that you feel sorry for yourself, if now those precious years, while your grandmother is still alive, you will no longer spend 100%, here my awareness turns on even more, because i understand that, firstly, this is the person who raised me from the very cradle, my parents also did not show me how to fly out of the parental nest, they stayed with her, and my grandmother is the person who took me to kindergarten every day and carried me back to hands.

how valuable is this family that even now she very often says: how great it is that we are all together, how cool it is that we can all be here together, even in a small kitchen, but together, so she keeps this fire going in the house, that is, it turns out, svetlana, look, that for oksana to leave home to separate now, it’s even to some extent, but if you don’t betray, then disappoint your grandmother, the most, most significant adult, yeah, it’s some kind of...

without her, maybe, maybe , but probably now is a period when it is very important for her to be needed, yes, it is important that she heard, yeah, and you know, how i understand this , i try to support her in this, that is, and her husband too, but how, for example, do you do this, well

, your husband, for example, there, oh, bah, there tomorrow. on the weekend, bake your pasties or pies there, that is, the children there, for example , order soup for her, for her it ’s so important, for her it’s so supportive, yes, that is, she’s there even when the kids come home, she’s there, oh , let me help you take off your shoes, i understand, but you don’t need to take off these shoes, they should do it themselves, you understand, at the age of 5 they can take them off on their own shoes, but she doesn’t, i want to serve you, let me help you, and that is , she has this feeling when she’s going through life. she always helped someone, she, well , it really was always like that in our house, that no matter who came, she would help everyone, she would always give more bags with something, they would definitely send it there, put at least bread, a piece of butter, but she will definitely give something, that is, she is such a person, she gives, she always gives, now, that is, well, it’s impossible for her , but how can i change my life like that? will i give, and what would be the answer, to whom can she give, and what can she give, and how

can she give? i don’t know, i have a dead end here, i personally have a dead end here, because i see how in life, for example, she gives - to her son-in-law, that is, my dad, she takes care of him all her life, that is, as if she were her own son , looks, strokes, cooks , until a certain age she always cleaned the apartment and so on , that is, when i had already grown up, she said that this is my border, please don’t come to my room come in, i’ll clean up myself, i beg you, that is, we were there too. such - some kind of grinding, then i finally won it back, she stopped cleaning there, how did you do it? well, honestly, at some time it was through swearing, that is, i just fought back with a scream and said: “don’t, please, i beg you, please don’t come here, because i’m used to having this undercutter with me. ” it stands this way and i don’t want it to stand differently, i will wipe off this dust myself, just please don’t come in, that is, a piece you’ve already gone through separation, you’ve torn a little

, now it seems to me that this is the right moment to move on, which is exactly what oksana was talking about, what she drew attention to, what good parenting is in general , what are all these pies for? there, let me give you some strings, that’s why all this is needed, for what purpose is all this being done, why do we take care of it so much, we cherish and cherish our children, grandchildren , and so on, but it also describes an ideal family, you understand , she describes that dream family, especially when viewed from on the other hand, without delving into it, yes, this is what it looks like, this is a really friendly family.

love, which manifests itself precisely in giving space to another person, yes , so that everything works out for the other, when i leave, grandma leaves, she must be calm, it is very important to be calm, that for those who remain, everything will be fine well, that they know how to fry chicken, that they can cook chebureks on their own, remembering their grandmother, how she taught them to do it, every time you eat chebureks, after a certain number of years you will remember your grandmother, that it turns out to be chebureyki , which are named after grandmother, and this is such a wonderful story, in this sense, really older relatives, yes, they do all this for one single purpose, well, at least they should not do it for that, to feel good, to feel everyone next to me, so everything here is like a chicken under my wings, under supervision, but only

when under supervision. there won’t be one, but someone like that will definitely come so that everything will be in order, this is the most important task, grandma i’m still not very confident, maybe you have this self-confidence in you.

significant for them, parents first of all , can do something on their own, where they show how it is in words, there you have to lace your shoes yourself, but of course i will hear, but if i see that my mother laces herself there, then i i also want to do this myself, if i see that my mother can go somewhere on her own, saying that she has things to do, that this is important work, then i can also have some important things to do, some important work, how else will i learn what i have something can stand on its own. this is a psyche podcast, where i, journalist natalya losyeva, my current expert psychologist svetlana shtokareva, our heroine oksana, figure out how to separate as an adult. you said that you didn’t have a very

good experience in this sense, because your parents, well, your mother, were not able to separate. you can become an example for your mother, and it’s not too late, no, it’s never too late, but then your mother will have a different, adult, mature separation. and mom is 63, dad is 61, well, the young people are generally wonderful, wait, but what about this one here is the syndrome of an abandoned nest, or they also call it a ruined nest, when even forty- or fifty-year-old people find it extremely difficult to leave their children,

leave their home, but only if, only if they have nothing else but this, and what do they have? for your parents, oksana, what could replace those everyday life when you are not there? well, my dad has a job, my mom is generally great in this regard, she is a needlewoman, she is a traveler, they have excursions on excursions, theaters, she and dad travel together, extremely rarely, because basically now my mother is already retired and she has a sister, who is also retired, so they go on excursions together, that is, they are like each other’s best friends, and they are still together, this is also very rare and great, when sisters maintain such relationships, but at the same time mom also has this... vector of development in the good sense of the word, when their relationship with dad can also be something else, when dad is also involved in some kind of travel , excursions, she tries, she

tries there, dad, dad sometimes gives in, well dad, for now, there are probably more important things to do, he’s a working man , well, what kind of young man is at work ? mom - spends a lot of time with her sister, yeah, as i understand it, they have a close relationship, yes, very much, but at the same time they don’t need to live together, maybe it’s also an example for everyone, yes, yes, yes, but you know , how come it’s also really interesting that it turned out very well in life, they have twins, they were born half an hour apart, yes, it turned out that her sister was the first to get married. when my grandfather at one time received an apartment, that is, they decided that the apartment would just stay with the newlyweds, and then a few years later my mother got married, gave birth to a child, well, so sometimes i ask, i say, why, well, how are you? if you didn’t have a goal to buy

an apartment there, they say, well, somehow we lived, it seemed like we had enough, everything was fine, now of course, well, it’s a bit cramped, it’s a bit cramped, well what's oksan? you have some ideas or feelings that will help you to begin to resolve this situation, without a solution or solution strategy that is obvious to you yet. i felt lightness inside, a lightness of understanding that when i leave, my parents and my grandmother will be able to be happy and happy that i am building my personal life, absolutely, and what i liked when oksana said, not if i leave, when i leave, well, really, you know, i have this problem and the moment has been in me for a long time and this is how it is...

is very important for those who start on a good path, those who must follow their own path, who must really create their own family, their own, their own traditions, yes, where something will really arise only thanks to you, your children, your husband , children will have the experience of independent life and an understanding of how they can go on... go on and build

their own lives on their own, you can become the founder, you are in a completely new chain, the chain of how to treat a good family, without the traumatic experience of this broken nest, with such a very good parting, when you really watch with delight how people leave in order to continue their lives. well, friends, it seems to me that... today ’s situation has turned out to be different, our today’s heroine leaves, as she says, with a light feeling and with the words that i can, and i see that with a whole plan, how act. svetlana, you didn’t tell the heroine what to do, you didn’t give advice, you just asked questions, was it improvisation or it was some kind of technique so that... the heroine would come out to resolve issues, well

, it was definitely improvisation, but at the same time, it could become a style of consultation, a style of conversation, when i relied on that the best that is in our heroine is something that has not yet been revealed, but is definitely ripe to be revealed, and it seemed to me that it was important to look at that potential. absolutely potential that can and should be used instead of dismantling traumatic experience of a destructive relationship, where, more importantly, more correctly, it seems to me, it is very useful to look at what should appear from what needs to appear, instead of sawing sawdust there about how terrible this whole thing is the story, my god, four generations are milling around in one kitchen, it’s not interesting, i like the positive. the approach of the logotherapist and existential psychologist svetlana

shtokareva, who helped our heroine oksana, as i see it and as it seems to me, solve your not very simple and easy situation. it was a psychic podcast. hello, this is news from the first, studio maria vasilyeva and at the beginning of the issue, briefly about the main topics: a series of explosions occurred in kharkov, odessa and ochakov. our troops are targeting the military infrastructure of ukrainian militants, confidently occupying advantageous positions for everyone.