in the history of art of the 20th century, we will see what evolution happened in cinema, and the cinema was played with grimaces, they were all like grimaces, then cinema became some kind of auteur art , i don’t know anymore, in the 60s and in the 50s, great opuses.

and what in music, in music after the advent of mahler and stravinsky and desi, and the world is completely changing and charles ibes and the world is completely changing, and a new language is obtained, and what is in opera, the opera of astarladov. archaic art such as it was more or less in the 19th century, that is, we are interested in music and conventional theater, i dress some kind of costume, i make some big gestures, i go out on stage and just support this ritual, so there was very little voice, from the fifties, sixties.

he came and began to fight with this great italian tonors, and great stars and so on, he and he saw this internal resentment, the composer’s resentment in this space, and why don’t we deserve this evolution, which the rest of the art world has, now it’s to judge it fine. or bad it's not not my business, my business is to say that it was that the person he created is very big scandals on the real stage, i asked him all the time, tell me what the biggest scandal was, which was fledermaus in salzburg, he smiled, because it was a dead question for him, he deeply appreciated the scandal, as well as... art in life, we

understand that at some point we will have to make some decision, uh-huh, do we want to please the public taste today, do we want to be accepted for what we do to feed?

there is a theater podcast on the air and today we are talking about gerard martier with theodore kurendis. martier has one of his concepts, well, perhaps one of his key concepts, it was director's theater. it was a theater based on the director's concept of

drama, because he, like a hacker, hacked the conservative opera system and introduced the director into the production team as one of them. equal members and authors of the performance along with the conductor, and thus he created conceptual works, carefully selecting members of the production group, for him this was extremely important, as far as i understand, who will work, these people had to have chemistry, they had to understand each other, feel each other and share each other’s views, so the performances that were created on the initiative of gerard marte always caused a colossal... resonance in society, from delight to categorical and rather harsh assessments from both the public and the press. is the relationship between the conductor and the director in the production group in martier’s concept a conflict

or not? i will tell one story that concerns me personally, with momaya for the first time i'll tell you when he collected it. go visit theador, i lived on the plaza oriente there, and talk about the future, you have carte blanche, do whatever you want to the theater, and peter sellars came and said:

“theodor, what are you dreaming about, we were thinking , what kind of don carlo business is this, aha"? a big opera and i say: i’m actually dreaming, you know there is such an opera - perchella indian queen, he says, opens his bag, says: this, i’m just reading this now, and i want to do indian, that is, it was some kind of amazing , amazing coincidence, which is one on there can’t be a billion like that, and we’re calling zharar in 5 minutes.

to me that the scandal does not frighten me in any way, if i know that it is a good performance, what it did, it opened these borders and made it possible to see works of art in

another territory, they removed from this narrow museum-like nature that the opera housed, and it staged the opera in a different space. well, you did the same thing in kyurma then, you also changed not only the theater, you also changed the audience, yes, but you did it when you were appointed to perm, i had already worked with the morte before that.

so that they don’t perceive music differently. i believe that one of the most unfortunate constitutions in art, in the art world, is the museum. why? because when all artists create a work of art, they create it under certain conditions, for example, a rebrant paints under, i don’t know. ten candles, uh-huh, here, naturally, his painting looks a certain way, with

warm light, uh-huh, yes, for example, cezanne, he created naexon provence, his work in the daylight, and in his garden, naturally, with cold light, she looks the way it should be, but imagine, now all these masterpieces are collected, collected by one museum and puts some kind of general cold light on... the paintings and displays pieces number one, number two, number three there, and there are a lot of people walking around looking at them they go, well, formality , formality, that is, you cannot move away from this formality to some kind of intimate connection that the viewer should have from the work, well, people listen to music while lying down, yes, there is some completely different organization in this music. there is completeness in this, you are open, you are leaving this

template, and you discovered to perceive music differently, not through habit, but through this, we all watch programs either on phones or at this, you differently, and it’s a pity that you didn’t take the phone away from this person, this, now, if you go to a rock concert, it ’s simply impossible to watch, because everyone, they don’t look at the concert, everything... you place musicians in the most unexpected places, well, naturally,

accordingly, selecting the repertoire, this is also from this series, or is this also an acoustic trick? it's all together acoustically sacredness, i personally look for sacredness in art, and sacredness is how you connect with the viewer, how... you create the whole ritual so that he is not a spectator, but an accomplice, let’s say, music should live in all the places that can to present it, and not just in concert halls, say, when you conduct in a church with your musicians, this is some kind of special feeling, naturally, this is a different feeling, a concert in a church does not work, you cannot give a concert in a church, this you serve.

almost 10 years since girard passed away, looking back, tell me, this uncompromisingness of martier, his principled position that opera is not a caramel name day for the heart, or as you once said,

it is not a plastic art, because in some cases. this plastic art is necessary , probably there should be a mainstream, so that original art is somehow different, feel the difference, and as prokofiev said, he says it best, there is music for the masses, and there is music for us, you know, you say it yourself in one of your interviews, i read: what music does not depend on the performer, music depends on the listener, on the viewer, in the future, what we must do is what morte basically do, we educate and open - boundaries, understanding and reflection in the viewer, so that he understands more, because that

even from seemingly primitive art people don’t catch it. that’s all, in principle, this race of the mainstream is what to do so that they understand everything, they feel that they are smart, and what will happen next, what kind of evolution, this is no one’s business, there are people who choose to live today and get the maximum, as much as possible today, and what will happen later, what will happen exactly. then there wouldn’t be shakespeare, there wouldn’t be dostoevsky, there wouldn’t be pushkin, there wouldn’t be anyone if they just wanted to do something today. tell me, here is your experience in perm, i think that this is a unique experience in russia for sure, because you reformatted this theater, you remade it, you

rebuilt it, you restarted it, you did something that no one else has managed to do, you. .. turned per into a meka of this very new operatic art, did you feel resistance from the audience, did you suffer from this? no, i just think that the viewer pemsky, he is the most sensitive in this point of view, because we formed him, we created a laboratory for the modern viewer, we met with this analysis, that is, a very rich program, then we are now in the radio house ...

we continue the theater podcast, our guest today is the legendary theodore. kurendis. as you know, i attend your concerts. the last episode i remember was when you stopped the concert, waited until the audience finally found their seats, sat down in them, and you started again. considering that you turned around into the hall and looked so ironically at those people who were fussily trying to catch up on their day, it was completely unironic, not at all ironic. it’s just like... you start in the evening, this is very important, this is the concentration that it should be, naturally there are some noises, this is a living process, but when you see that 50 people have not yet sat down, you go out, because others are not to blame for coming on time, but they too they want, there are moscow traffic jams, you know what

, what is happening, they are trying to sit, and the whole introduction says... the piano will be a sacrificial seat for these people, it’s better to wait, i say, nothing, i’ll wait until you sit down, i’ll start, because that i play very quietly, on the other hand, it’s my mistake that i started, when i see that everyone hasn’t sat down yet, i should have waited, i say, visit ours later, what i don’t like is when - with phones, uh, when they’re filming, when... the red concert and my phone rings, i don’t know how to turn it off, it’s like a nightmare, some kind of spanish shame, when i go to a concert, i either don’t take my phone with me

at all, or i’m not in air fashion, but turn it off completely, but you never know something happened, to be sure, because this some kind of sacred action, i know that it is worth it for these people, performers, to come out and stage their own. on the table , you have to respect this, one day i went to a famous person, and he started talking to me, well , theodore, hi, hi, well, he didn’t look, he spent 15 minutes talking to him, he wrote text messages, i don't know, maybe he's pac-man played, i didn’t, i didn’t check, but he played , he watched, yes, and what did you want to ask, something, i said, nothing, just hello, i came to say, he left, maybe this

person is very busy, but i think that this is a very great disrespect in any person, not that i set myself high, to talk to a person and not look him in the eyes at all even once, so it’s not respectful to go to a concert, write down an essay or i don’t know. from all sides, i have some kind of success due to the fact that i uncompromisingly believe in my ideas about music, both about

education, about music, about creation, yeah, in this topic, and if you have faith and you go for it and you don’t look left or right, at some point it will come , it’s like success and anchorage.

go to some good exhibition, listen to some good villeintern music,

go to a more experimental theater, and this forms some kind of context, a context that helps you understand more, it is important to know poetry, it is important to know literature, it is important to know who... who lives on your world, you expand only when you go into the territories of ignorance, so art, modern art, i can’t say that i love everything, modern art, but i ’m happy if i go to some performance that is completely unfamiliar to me and i don’t like it, but i'm happy that i was because i expanded, i saw that... which works inside me, but this is an important experience, of course, art is not like or dislike, it's not about aesthetics, it's about expansion ours.

these are 200 people in the choir orchestra, who sold their houses behind me, i'm happy because there is a house of radio and there is this dream place, and i think, because i watch all over the world what is happening, i think that this is the most progressive place in the world of a house of radio now, and i’m happy because this is happening in our country, in russia, thank

you. thank you very much, all episodes of the podcast lab can be viewed on the channel one website. hello everyone, tatyana gevorkyan and ne lykomshity are with you. today we are talking about the relationship between cinema and fashion. we remember the most iconic images, film difs and... soviet films. costume designer natalya konevskaya is with me in the studio. soviet cinema is a treasure trove of cult images. natasha, were you personally acquainted with any of the soviet film stars, or maybe you managed to work with someone? let's start with the fact that i grew up in such a magical house, it was an actors' cooperative. in the sixties, a lot of actors moved there, and anastasia vertinskaya, alla demidova and arkady arkanov lived there. a lot of

actors and people associated with the theater and cinema, and of course, every time i entered the elevator with one of them, i scanned with such, you know, the already beginning glance of a costume designer, every time i admired, was amazed since childhood, so i had such an incredible opportunity behind them to observe who you liked most in their everyday image, so to speak, well, anastasia vertinskaya has always been absolutely incredible. "anastasia vertinskaya, she was called the soviet audre hebborn, graceful, sophisticated aristocratic appearance. she broadcast beautiful images not only on the screen, but in everyday life. i was amazed then that she wore flat shoes, which we all love so much now, with long skirts, men's boots, always some interesting headdresses, hats, caps, berets, and there was another amazing

moment, she already wore one earring broad shoulders, a long coat to the floor , something that became fashionable in moscow, it seems to me, by the end of the nineties, if not in the two thousandths, when i was going to shoot today, i talked on the phone with my mother, she asked me what the shoot would be about, i say we will discuss soviet film stars, my dad worked in the field of cinema and we lived in other countries, he represented russian cinema there.

brightness was reflected in the clothes of our film stars , it was noticeable that they were brighter, more provocative, there are, as it were, two images, there is an everyday image, there is an image of a star, very often they get tired of popularity, of recognition, on the contrary, they want to hide, allah demidova was different in that i didn’t recognize her every time, also being a little girl, when she entered the elevator, i think who is this neighbor, and this is allamidova, that is , she... knew how to somehow hide her stardom, and at the same time, if you look at her photographs, look at some chronicles from festivals, of course, she is incredibly stylish, stellar, with amazing posture, but one of the film stars’ ability to transform themselves in life is to look like ordinary women, so that they don’t get recognized when they don’t want to. well, by the way, today yes, today all famous actresses, they try to hide either behind dark glasses, or

dress modestly enough in everyday life so that they nobody. i didn’t recognize it, then it was the same , of course i didn’t know everyone and didn’t see them, but what i saw, it seems to me that it was the same, it’s one thing to go somewhere in the morning to a rehearsal in the theater without makeup, too in dark glasses , hiding behind... some kind of this headdress, but it’s another thing to go to a premiere somewhere in the evening, where they should recognize you, everyone should talk about your image, let’s talk a little about film images, here’s from yours childhood, whose images you remember most, for example, lyudmila gurchenko, what are the most memorable images for you ? so, as far as i remember, she appears in some kind of robe, with these curlers, with some kind of scarf on her head, so

completely nondescript, by the end of the film , by some very simple means, she simply looks 20 years younger. lyudmila gurchenko was a real influencer and trainer of her time, it was she who popularized it among soviet fashionistas on... after the release of the film station for two, women began to buy piles of magazines with patterns, sew and curl their hair, like the heroine of the picture. what do you think, these outfits of the carnival night, they were inspired by the costume designers from the house of dior, definitely, i don’t remember, in my opinion, fifty-six, yes, that is, it’s already been almost 10 years since that moment , when christian duor suggested this simple one. with a huge amount of fabric that was spent on the dress after military, uh, changed the entire female silhouette and even somehow returned to women the corsets that they took off with such difficulty and with such pleasure at the beginning of the century, suddenly here it is again in the fifties - everyone

is being pulled into a corset, this is a wasp waist, in the soviet the union also came a little later, but this is such an understandable desire of post-war women to look beautiful, feminine, somehow. today is a silhouette, i have a dress that i inherited from my grandmother, i even have a photo where she is at a reception at the soviet embassy in a dress like once in the style of dior in tallinn, i still have it hanging in my wardrobe, i blow the dust off it, and i even wore it somewhere a couple of times, well, somehow the christiano dior brand itself doesn’t promote these silhouettes of its own, they practically do not change from season to season, the length changes, the texture of the fabric changes, but this... the new look is always present in their collections, now everyone very often looks at soviet cinema of the era of the seventies and eighties, and says that modern collections of famous world brands are very reminiscent of an office romance or

a photo of lyudmila gurchenko in a suit, it ’s just a misoni suit, where they found outfits for movies at that time, were they some well-known brands or was it made to order, how did it all happen? there weren’t really any well-known brands back then, then naturally it was all made, it was all costume designers who collected fabrics, found patterns, in fact, these were practically the first fashionable costumes, because if you watch movies of the twenties, thirties, even forties, here’s lyubov orlova , for example, it is considered the first soviet diva, yes, but try to remember some of her images, waves, emphasis on lips and graceful high fifties, golden curls with cold eyebrows. she created her image together with her husband and director grigory alexandrov, inspired by actress marlene dittrich and the dream factory. fur coats, shiny

evening dresses and, of course, elegant hats. but lyubov orlova is often compared to marlene dittrich in her image. in terms of image, yes, light curls, these thin eyebrows, red lips. clothing at the time in the movies.

western influence comes to the soviet union, because trophy outfits appear, fabrics appear, some films appear , probably too, here is the first image... of a positive heroine, but at the same time fashionable, incredibly stylish - this is still the same lyudmila gurchenko in the film carnival night with these new look dresses, so not soviet at all, but at the same time she is incredibly positive and a truly soviet heroine, whom everyone wants to appreciate. 5 minutes, 5 minutes, my watch will soon be stripped, make peace, those who are in discord, then - after all in the eighties, we also see such heroines, but even the same irony of fate, all

the heroines there are beautiful, bright, quite fashionable and independent, well, that is, as if at some point, probably somewhere in the mid-seventies, probably this now after the thaw, it’s as if a woman is allowed to be beautiful and stylish, and at the same time it’s as if clothes have nothing to do with character, that’s what it’s like... a woman no longer looks 100% shows that how she will behave in the cinema, that is, there may be some surprises, then there was another move, how to show fashionable, stylish, sexy characters, but these are historical films, oddly enough, censorship is rampant, what is being filmed, fairy tales are being filmed, films are being made about the future and about the past, there is a lot in everything in this whole spectrum sexy heroines, this is naturally milady, margarita terikhova , in general one of the sexiest, by the way, cinematographers, here’s another name, and if you look

at the way she’s dressed, there’s nothing from the era of louis the thirteenth, but a lot from the fashion of the seventies , from some fashion that it was impossible to show, i think, in soviet cinema, she is straight up a hippie, because even this boho style, she has badforts, tight trousers tucked in, this is a shock of loose blonde hair, fashionable winged wings, well, that is, everything there,

this is not dainty , today, together with costume designer natalya konevskaya, we are analyzing the wardrobes of movie characters from the most iconic soviet films. in general, in recent years we have been looking at our old films with a completely different look, that is, then we really followed the plot, the ideology, the songs remembered, but somehow the images were not stored in the head, now, first of all, everyone pays attention to the images of our film stars, and well, probably yes, we have already accustomed us to modern cinema, and the fact that cinema always

collaborates with fashion houses with designers , and the fact that any new film that comes out, if it is somehow connected with fashion and with stylish heroines, is always discussed, who made the costumes, what brands dressed them, then of course this did not happen, but if we return to lyudmila gurchenko, then this dress is in the new look style, christian dior - it was more likely on the contrary, that is, it appeared.

these negative, but very attractive, sexy, beautiful heroines in white, the same thing in the film ivan vasilyevich changes his profession, there are two heroines, there is the main character, who is always so red and white, and there is the director’s girlfriend, she is generally he wears not just white, but an unheard-of white top with

feathers, which you can absolutely easily wear today and no one will notice that these are things from the early seventies. famous of that time collaborated with cinema, there was a fashion house in which these models were generally developed, vyacheslav zaitsev, i think this is the most famous name, of course,

there were many fashion designers, many designers, but somehow fashion and cinema were separated at that time, and costume designers. they came either from the theater, or there were production designers and costume designers, on the same carnival night, so interesting, there was a production designer, i think his name was konstantin efimov, he was also a costume designer in the film volga-volga, and in some other films with lyubov orlova, that is these are the same people who could make costumes and sets, and the workshops worked, a whole sewing workshop worked, but... in the film they found these fabrics with difficulty, they found patterns and patterns in magazines somewhere, somehow these magazines came from abroad, then were processed for many years, that is, it was all very difficult painstaking work, because during the period of shortage it was impossible to just go to the store to buy, let alone clothes,

even fabric. and how much easier it is to work in cinema today, and easier it is more difficult, let’s say so, it’s very interesting to work on... historical projects, because it’s a whole hunt, a hunt in vintage shops, a search for some authentic things, sometimes one thing can create the image of a whole heroine, as if from some found one suit, you can start and come up with a whole life. in the office novel, this brown suit, they say that alisa friendlich herself found it, they climbed through all sorts of costume shops, musfilms, not musfilms, they were looking for something so terrible for... secondly, this is some kind of the most terrible soviet fabric, that is, this is the kind of thing

that no actress would want to wear, you just dress a little gloomily, right? hmm, i didn’t notice, but there was an actor who put it on himself, do you remember this story 2 years ago, when brad pitt came out dressed as lyudmila prokofievna, no, this is on the red carpet, i know that this is always compared to all sorts of exits prada and brown suits, but i think that if you put them side by side, it will be just heaven. natasha, how would you dress a business lady today if... a remake was being filmed? an office romance, probably in a hoodie, in jeans in a hoodie, hoodie, this is a lady business remotely, remotely and after remotely, it seems to me that people now already allow themselves not to comply with the dress code, well, we won’t come up with this plot now, but to me it seems great to show

the person in...