how hard it is when mikhailov, kharlamov and petrov played against me, they always played against me in cska, we were all 3:3 , it was something, it was like that, i was in the soap simply, because there every second you had to hit the puck, and imagine against such players, so there is interest, beautiful interest, there is an experiment, you see, fedorov, he is an experiment, four players go out there, but it doesn’t always work out, but there is also some interest. that’s why the bullets, you know, for the fans, you came, well, 0:0, 2:0, 2:1 won, well, when 2:2, and then again there are a lot of overtime moments, and it also means shootouts, it was not in vain that i bought tickets, i watched a lot of interesting things, how goalies play, this is interesting, you know, we still work for the people, for the fans, loop the theme of the national team, we have russia 25 , yes, head coach roman ortenberg, national team , national team not yet, no, no,

yeah, give it to me if they get injured, we just got the answer to this question, that’s what i’m talking about, even earlier, when we had breaks, they called from cska, there from other teams, you just take ours for one or two tournaments , because there was no such schedule, and today it is very difficult to gather even better players, why, because well, we understand that look, the games are difficult, the teams are collapsing one, two, three, then they play unevenly, and if we still support them... play at a high

level, well, they just don’t give in, they don’t give in like that, because the national team is not playing for the world cup, they are already good players, so when they come to the national team, well, they lost to the belarusians, i think that after all, the players did not give in as much as they would have liked, but here they were right very close to defeat, and here, well, a belarusian, well, here, excuse me, belarus is the national team, and this is russia 25, there is a big difference. but why? these are belarusians, what do you think? we play with them all the time for the world cup, but we don’t always win so well. our podcast is called hockey football. you know both sports very well . do you know what hockey football is all about in your opinion? well because we are a winter sport, eh football - from the point of view of history, psychology, this is what is happening, because there are a lot of intersections, and cafe football and hockey, and yes , you played all of these, i want to say, we all the time.

that the tactics are very close, the preparation, tactics are very close, there is, well, there are the main teams of football clubs, so the difference, of course, of course, we have ice, they have a field, well, that’s obvious, that’s obvious, yes, well, we have traditions , we have more victories, yeah, well , football, unfortunately, doesn’t have such victories, but at the same time football is number one, well, footballers are considered one, i... that hockey, thank you very much, thank you for your time, thank you, this is a hockey football podcast, our guest was vladislav tretyak, hello everyone, on the first channel of the podcast everyone wants to fly, and i’m its host, leonid yagbovich, nowhere.

you and i will not fly today, today we will sit with you and remember a legendary man, a man who glorified our country for many, many years, a man with whom this delightful journey into the sky probably began for so many of our pilots, our airplanes, those that are still on outstanding pilots of our time fly, we will talk today: valeria pavlovich chikalov. this year marks the 120th anniversary of his birth. he was born on february 2 , 194 in a village, or perhaps one might say, in a small town called vasileva. he was the tenth child in the family, as his sister notes in her memoirs, since childhood he was all springy, all shabut, you could never catch him, he ran endlessly. there was a bunch

of energy back and forth. 8 years old, he freely crossed the volga back and forth several times, and what quite dangerous, diving under rafts. this is 8 years. legend has it that at the age of thirteen, that is, it was somewhere around the seventeenth, eighteenth year, maybe, maybe a little later, he saw a plane in the sky for the first time and was completely enchanted by the sky, then circumstances begin to take shape , which can only be considered as a great case: the chkalovs had a neighbor, the neighbor worked in today’s times at an aviation enterprise, well, how to say the enterprise, it was a small warehouse. where they were assembling airplanes, and he hired chkalov , valery pavlovich, who, by the way, in childhood, i must tell you, was called not valery, but valerian in honor of st. valerian, and for quite a long time, until about the twenty-fifth or twenty-sixth year, he cleaned himself up like that valerian, and then became valery, changing

his name, he worked with a foreman-assembler at this same aviation enterprise, here is the second case, an order comes from the yegoryevsky school. per person to study as a pilot at this very yegoryevsky school, i must tell you, the same neighbor who arranged for chkalov to work on this very enterprise, was in love with his sister, they were going to get married, and he did not want to part with his bride in any way, and invited chkalov to go to this same yegorievsky school instead, which happened in the twenty-second year chkalov entered the yegoryevsk school, where he studied until... until the age of twenty-four, then took a course at the borisoglebsk school of military pilots, among other things, he graduated, even then there was such a serpukhov higher aviation school of air combat bombing shooting, here

that means he finished all this in the twenty -fourth year, became a fighter pilot of the air force of the workers' and peasants ' red army, by the way, an amazing fact: we are all used to seeing chkalov in the film as a huge man, such a bear, a russian, who could easily and freely do some things there incredible deeds, in fact, he was 60 meters tall, weighing 65-66 kg, but at the same time incredibly muscular, and his psychophysics developed so that he absolutely 100% fit the definition. fighter, he was like a child in love with this toy called an airplane, from the very beginning he did something unimaginable, it was impossible to stop him, then in iskarili, where he came, there were nupars, i took them with me, this is

of course an an-2, this is a later airplane designs, but nevertheless i want to show you what he did to achieve this at this very nieuport, which was impossible to do. at that time, at least in the minds of those who flew on these very planes, on this plane, which, generally speaking, was supposed to fly smoothly, well, not only that, that he did loops and melmans, this is when the plane rises like this, then turns over and continues flying, all this would be nice, and also like this, which no one has ever done, and at the same time he did it at altitude, which also touched two . runway, of course, this led to complete indignation of his superiors, once when he did something similar, for these very tricks on this plane, he received 20 days of arrest, this then happened to him many times, everything these endless failures, reprimands,

golptvahty everything else, however , they say that the first air parade, in my opinion, was in 1927, where... he was part of the team, though they flew there, they flew, so he did exactly everything for that he received 20 days of arrest, and made such an impression on those present that he received a cash bonus, about which, by the way, he later wrote to his wife, what i was once imprisoned for, now they give me money, here i would like to dwell on one thing moment, twenty-fifth year, that very famous a case that everyone talks about and has written about many times. this very legend about his flight under the troitsky bridge, a huge number of discrepancies, it doesn’t matter whether he flew or not, but the earth is full of rumors. so , let’s try to figure it out: in the twenty-fourth year he ends up in the rka, well, he’s a completely snotty pilot, on

this very plane he flies under the troit bridge, which is mortally dangerous, well, god bless him, let’s assume, but he could only fly in... years and no later, because in 1930 he started flying in moscow, here again there is a discrepancy, on the one hand they say he wanted to marry olga. i wanted to marry olechka, and she had a boyfriend who worked in the nkvd, and olya seemed to say that you, well, hinted to him that he was actually a nobody, and that he, uh, could already provide for his family, and chkalov for that, to prove this to her, he made an appointment for her on the troitsky bridge, said that he would come, instead, suddenly she was standing, waiting for him, suddenly, ah-ah-ah, a plane from above... once, it descended in front of those present, flew under the bridge, than , of course, she was completely amazed

and agreed to marry him. on the other hand, olga irazema said many times that nothing like this happened, and she doesn’t remember such an incident, i was not, of course , familiar with her, i was on very good terms with valeria valerievna, the daughter of richkalov with olga valerievna with igor valerievich , they said that mom... every time she said that none of this happened, but this didn’t happen, nevertheless, where does the legend come from, how she was suddenly born, and apparently she was born, that’s where, when the famous director was making a film about chkalov in 1941, there was a moment that had to be somehow mixed, bypassed, not spoken at all, the fact is that chikalov was once expelled from the party after his numerous violations, kicked out of the air force deprived of his rank, he was put on trial. the reason for this

was, to put it mildly, not a very correct situation, there was a scandal, there was a fight, but it was almost impossible to film this, the great legend of the chkalov suddenly, ah-ah-ah, such a violation. and then one day the director of the film i heard some conversation about how once upon a time... a very long time ago, and it really was like this: the pilot friede actually flew under the bridge in an m5 plane in 1916, a legend was born here, it led to the fact that during the filming of a film about chkalov, pilot borisenko flew under the troitsky bridge four times, twice during rehearsal, twice during filming. but one more thing, i held

chkalov’s personal file in my hands, a lot of things are written there, nevertheless, the incident when he flew under the bridge and for this he was stripped of his rank and put on trial, there is nothing of this there, although, as you understand, an absolutely extraordinary event would, of course, be recorded in his personal file, nothing of the sort. there weren’t, but nevertheless, rumors, a legend, well, well , let’s go back a little, in 1925 , on november 16, he went to prison, he was generally a hectic person, everything he did in the air seemed to him something - this is what he was born for, he in general, i think , i’m almost sure, he thought that he was a bird, which is why people don’t fly like birds, remember, classic, he, perhaps, even on the ground behaved as if in the air , well, well, such a character, well

such a person, endlessly out of the ordinary, nevertheless, on november 8, 1927 , something happened that probably should have happened, probably, after all, fate decided to turn everything in some positive direction, well, finally... .to give this country a truly legend. so, november 8, 1927 . air parade in honor of the tenth anniversary of the great october socialist revolution. full field of spectators. the revolutionary military council is in full force and the parade begins. first, general aerobatics, group. that individual, what he did in the air at that time, i imagine, it made

not just a stunned impression on those present, it seems that this cannot be done, they say it has not been established for sure, he, by the way, wrote about it himself, once he twisted 250 loops in 45 minutes, you can imagine that this means 250 loops, maybe 200, also nothing, in 45 minutes, that is, he could do something incredible in the air, and he naturally was, perhaps, the only one who could stand it. this is physical, so this is what he did at the parade, what he showed on parade, it was completely unimaginable for those present at that time, well, not only did he spin barrels, half-rolls, slow rolls, that is, the plane does not rotate like this , but it flies, then stands on the wing, then turns over, flies like that, then again

on the wing, then flies again like this, he spun the emelmans, he... spun an upward corkscrew, a reverse corkscrew in an inverted position, by the way, this is a figure, i deliberately focused on it, because there were quite a lot of tragic cases when pilots died because of this inverted corkscrew, namely chkalov, valery pavlovich came up with a system for getting out of this corkscrew, an inverted corkscrew, of course, everything that he did in the air produced, i repeat... not a completely dumbfounded impression on those present, these are the elements that chkalov once demonstrated , slow roll, upward corkscrew, flights at minimum altitude, that is, combat use, the air of alexei german the younger is wonderfully shown in the film, where you can very accurately see what happens to the board precisely

during combat use, during battle-collision , see for yourself, look,

these elements, a slow corkscrew, an ascending barrel and a melman, were once piloted for the first time by valery pavlovich kalov, on ishachka, on this small single-seat airplane, he was generally the very, the turbulence itself, well something happened to him all the time, i repeat, he lived the same in the air and on the ground, and of course, he played out, it is noted in his personal file, in october of the twenty-eighth year... he was again convicted of an accident with an entire squadron, he was fired from the army, uh, got a sentence, january 2 in the twenty-ninth year he began serving his sentence, but after 19 days he was released. at the beginning of 1929, chkalo returned to st. petersburg, to leningrad, and until november of the thirtieth

year he worked in the leningrad osaviakhim, he was terribly sad. he was terribly sad and the letters that he wrote to his wife were full of this sadness, that he was a lonely person, that there was absolutely nothing to do here, in all likelihood, the country’s leadership understood or guessed who they were dealing with, so eight somewhere in 10 definitely not i remember in november of the thirtieth in 1999 chkalov was reinstated in the red army and sent to work in the moscow military. air forces, revolutionary, red, which means our army, around this, at this very time chkalov meets polikarpov, begins to work for polikarpov, and this is the same polikarpov, the legendary aircraft designer, twice sentenced to death, and twice miraculously escaping execution, nevertheless,

who worked in this most famous sharashka, was appointed chief or chief... designer of this very niya, where chkalov was later transferred with an amazing perfect formulation, it was written there to fight the tupolev and petlyakovschina, well , that was the time, nevertheless, for testing the new i5 fighter, on may 5, 1935 , polikarpov and chkalov were awarded orders... the highest award that ever was, that is both of them and polikarpov became quite significant people in all respects. so, with a request to allow him to fly from

moscow to america on an ant-25 plane. this was, by the way, not his idea, the idea was livanevsky, who some time before this letter tried to make the flight, but they didn’t succeed, that... it was with engines, the sixth year, but you need to know chkalov’s character, it was in the thirty-fifth, early thirty , when he found out about it, of course he, of course, he caught fire with this idea, stalin did not allow this flight, i really understand that if something serious happens, it will affect the general attitude towards the country of the soviets, so it was allowed to fly to the far east, so the ant25 plane. on july 20, 1936 , he took to the skies and after 56 hours, no, this it was, therefore, a little earlier, on the eighteenth, they took off and after 56 hours, having flown 9,374 km,

they did not reach petropavlovsk, the fuel was running out, the engine stopped working, they began to land, it was decided to land on ude island, according to the recollections... of those who was in the cockpit, what chkalov did, no, it cannot be said that it was something heroic, but that it was absolutely amazing, even from the words of the pilots who flew next to him, the boyduks, belyakov, like him landed the plane on udy, which is completely impossible absolutely, there was, that is , there was absolutely not a single, well, level meter to sit down, almost before the very touch baidukov managed to shout: he was like a ravine, they rose slightly into the air, jumped over the ravine, chkalov shouted, guys, everyone in the tail , he was very afraid that the plane would crash,

that is, touching the ground it could turn over , so everyone in the tail, in order to at least hold the tail, even if something happened to make the tail heavier, they ran, well, crawled into the tail , and he sat down, broke the chassis, it doesn’t matter, but it there was something... the world stood up and applauded, because at that time a flight of 9,374 km, well, this, this is not only a world record, it is something unimaginable. for many years before takeoff, chkalov said the same phrase, which gagarin then repeated after a huge period of time. chkalov said he went.

heroes, in may 1937 , permission was finally obtained to fly to america. on june 18, 1937 they started. in my hands, i must pay tribute to the workers of the central house of aviation and cosmonautics, they brought us a phenomenal thing today. i am holding the navigator's logbook in my hands. that very legendary flight on the ant-25 plane, which began right then, 1937, this very

logbook, you don’t have to say anything at all, i could tell you that not only fly, but practically sit on this plane, well, how can i say , well, maybe 15 minutes, but no more, i can’t even imagine, 63 hours 25 minutes. to be in this space, well, probably, only great courage, great skill of these three people were allowed not to crash at all, not to die, but to simply survive these 63:25. if you read this in-flight magazine, then any person, even those not very initiated into aviation, or into cosmonautics in general, into flights, understands that this is something unusual, sometimes icing. every other time, you can read, the oxygen runs out, the water supply valve for cooling the engine has stopped working, and so on, and this is

an hour. one at the controls, then they change, and in order to change places in this small plane, that is, the plane is huge, but in this cramped cockpit, well, this acromatic sketch. 63 hours, i repeat, 25 minutes, through icing, through absolute impenetrable fog. oxygen starvation is such a thing that occurs instantly, it’s not something that happens to you worse, worse, worse, but it can happen right away... once that’s it, and the person has lost consciousness, blood from the nose, this happens over the course of, this three days, 63 hours 25 minutes, almost three days , they are flying, there is sub-zero temperature on board, i want to show you what it was, these are these leggings, high boots, well, of course, overalls, high boots, i’m sitting wide now, well, i need to say,

what is this about... this is the helm, he still felt more or less comfortable in this, in this cup, in this, on this seat, but just try to sit on a chair for 63 hours 25 minutes, try it, but this is flying at altitude , by the way, i must tell you, here’s another thing that the lovely girls from this home of our aviation and astronautics brought me, please note that here... although there are clip-on ears, but this is only for glasses , at that time there was no radio communication, and those that were flying, they they worked only through this, through this device, that is, through a walkie-talkie, they had no connection, so in 63 hours and 25 minutes they were supposed to arrive, everything is written right here, they were supposed to fly to portland, but... until

portland they didn’t have enough fuel , they land in vancouver and they had 18 liters of gasoline left out of the 6 tons that were on board, i think that america, like later moscow , probably didn’t know anything like this in the jubilation of the amazed people in its history, it was something something fantastic, but...

a national hero, naturally, absolutely, absolutely, and it becomes literally a union of soviet socialist republics. on december 12, 1937, a deputy was elected. council of nationalities of the supreme soviet of the ussr, that is, he became a member of the government, everything was wonderful. i suppose, at least in a conversation with my daughters, with valeria valerievna, with olga valerievna. i felt that something was still stirring in his soul, he understood what was happening, despite, i repeat, that he allowed himself, of course, something unimaginable. if you go back a little on one... of

receptions in the kremlin, the impossible happened, that is, it was not practically impossible, it was theoretically impossible at that time. joseph veseryonovich raised a toast to valery pavlovich chkalov, he said: i want to drink to the legendary pilot who glorifies our country, suddenly valery pavlovich stands up and says: wait a minute, joseph varyonovich, i don’t want you to drink to me, i think that today, all comrades, we must drink to our comrade of steel. approaches stalin, takes a glass from him, pours a full one and a full one for himself and says: joseph siryevich, let's drink at brudershaft. the kremlin froze, they drank, hugged and kissed. i don’t know, but i think this is the only time someone allowed themselves to kiss stalin like that. i think, that is, i am sure, stalin understood who he was dealing with. not only that... of course, he

liked chkalov, this russian man who did the unimaginable, this is absolutely freedom multiplied by opportunity. over the whole world, he understood who he was dealing with, among other things, chikalov, of course, was a calling card for stalin, he represented the country, he represented including stalin himself, because it was stalin who gave chkalov the opportunity to become what he was, well, time passed, everything was fine, by the way, he and his wife already lived in a very nice apartment on the street. chkalovo, and exactly opposite the chikalovs’ house on chikalov street, there was an apartment where we lived in a communal apartment with my father, mother, grandmother, grandfather, my aunt, uncle, and sister. directly opposite was chikalov’s house, they lived in apartment 102, now i don’t remember

whether i was visiting them on the fourth or fifth floor, probably large at that time, well, it’s not a very big apartment, nevertheless, everyone knows the chkalovo house, in moscow, at least everyone knows it, december 1st. chkalov was urgently called back from vacation to test the new fighter and 180. several reservations should be made here: the fact is that spain was already there, the fact is that there were already messerchmites 109 in the sky, and this is a speed of 500-550, well, under 500 km/h, and we still called sixteenths, by the way. and shakas, and for some reason the germans called them rats, it is unknown why, but nevertheless, we of course they were losing, losing in speed , in maneuverability, they urgently needed a fighter that could compete with

the mesors, i think if they didn’t understand, then they guessed that difficult times were coming and something had to be done urgently, this same i-180. .. with the new m-88 engine, they say, during testing it achieved a speed of 570 km/h, it was true that this was not this modification, it was the third modification of the i-180s or i-183, but nevertheless, after the death of chkalov, this fighter achieved 570 km. besides everything else , there was one more reason, the fact is that the birthday of joseph vyaserenovich was approaching. and of course, everyone really wanted to give the father of the people a gift, the plane was damp , there were quite a lot of deficiencies, nevertheless, well, you also had to know

chkalov’s character, on december 15, thirty minutes he boards the i-180 plane, starts the engine, gets permission for takeoff, the air rises. according to the instructions, make a square, well, as we say, conveyor work, which means takeoff, first turn, second turn, another turn for landing, all without retracting the landing gear, at an altitude of 600 m, fly around the airfield, the first lap was made exactly according to the instructions, 600 m. the weather was clear, but frosty -29°, he rises, the first lap is 600 m, instead of landing, he suddenly gains 2,000 and goes to the second lap, that is, goes to

the second lap, dials 2,000 , there is no explanation for this, but maybe, maybe , this is his desire, well, to accomplish, he understood that the car was good, that the car was promising, well, to show, prove, now it’s difficult to say, in short, holy 200 he is landing, the engine stalls, he tries sit down, the engine does not work, then there are several discrepancies, some say that he saw the boy in the place where he was touched, went to the side, crashed into a barn, he was chosen. from the cockpit, he lived for another 2 hours , having managed to say, i only have myself to blame, and we lost him, here again there is a layering of all sorts of conspiracy stories, on the one hand,

the commission found that the engine on the i-180 could have stalled for two reasons: first, the radiator curtains did not work, and the engine stalled due to hypothermia, this was one and... of the possible reasons, the second reason is that it seems that when switching from low gas to high gas, to full throttle, the engine sucked when it tried to go to one hundred. having pushed the handles forward to increase the speed, the engine stalled, it is not exactly established. nevertheless, it’s a tragedy, here again a lot of speculation, rumors, and so on begins. the first servant, he didn’t just die, but it was a deliberate disaster, they say, he was killed. perhaps this rumor is justified by the fact that some time before this, joseph vesseryonovich summoned chkalov. and offered to head the nkvd, and

lavrente pavlovich beria was supposed to be his deputy. chikalov refused, the second question is, in what terms, stalin, as you know, could not be refused. and it seems that this gave reason to suspect that something dirty was going on here. the second argument is that it seems that lavren tepalovich beri wrote a report to stalin that the machine was not ready for flight, what. went to bed for quite a long time with

a loaded revolver under his pillow, i don’t know what he felt, what he suspected, what he feared, nevertheless all these rumors, the commission did not establish anything, quite a lot of people were arrested , surprisingly polikarpov was not arrested, although for some time he sat at home and waited for arrest, naturally, and if we add to this... there was a legend and one can say that it would

have fought on this in the thirty-eighth year, but a legend tends to live on its own, a legend of humanity, valery pavlovich chikalov , leonid yakubovich was with you, everyone wants to fly on the podcast, watch us always on channel one, we will be glad to see you, and we will continue conversation about legendary personalities in our podcast, come, watch, listen, we are glad to see you, just up to... we are glad to welcome you to the podcast deception of substances and its host, editor-in-chief of komsomolskaya pravda olesya nosova and i am an endocrinologist pavlova. today we will talk about an important, very interesting topic about obesity.

fat, that's the word fattening, in my opinion, wonderful, uh, the same word fattening, in general, can be called what happens to a person when he eats a lot of fruit, fruits and the fructose they contain is an ideal way to gain fat, prepare for winter, yes, prepare for winter , in fact, bears gain their main weight, despite the fact that they are such ferocious, terrible predators, and so on, the main weight... they gain fat precisely by

berries, fruits and so on, and not what you would think, absolutely, i ’ll deviate a little now, we once went to donbai on the glacier, the border guards stopped us and said that we should go along that path it’s impossible, because there is a bear eating raspberries, the bear is busy with a very important matter, he needed to undergo a healing process, and any distractions were somehow life-threatening. this is really so, for some reason it doesn’t occur to most people that fruit is sweetness, maybe it’s somehow connected with fat, because when we eat lard, well... there’s probably a reason to assume people, that lard , fat accumulates, too, fat, and fruits and berries are sugar, they are sugar, plus they themselves are low in calories, so if you look - the calorie content there, i don’t know, apples, what the calorie content of apples, well, mine, it seems to me, 50-60 kilocalories, approximately

depending on the size, but what is very important here is what will happen later in the body of a person or a bear when you eat these apples, and it is also very... important how many of these apples you eat, and also, what is really very important, how does a change in appetite occur when eating apples or other fruits, but more on that a little later, but for now i’ll also tell you how, as an example, a patient once came to me and said: doctor, i ’ve lost weight so well, i’ve been on a watermelon diet and your eyes are burning, man very... body composition analysis and you will see what you have lost, in relation to this lady it was especially revealing, because i had bioimpedance before, that is, the results of her

body composition before, now after her diet, and i knew that we we’ll see, but talking about it first , when a person came on such a rise, is not very reasonable, it’s better to show it so that objective data is visible, well, actually , what we saw was a sufficient loss of muscle mass, and adipose tissue was added, and i told her began to explain that watermelon or any another fruit diet, a mono-diet, involves the intake of only a specific component, yes, well, in particular, watermelon. this is a lot of water , this is glucose, this is fructose and of course, dietary fiber, which, by the way, is useful regarding dietary fiber, but there is not very much of it, after all, but there really is not very much of it, naturally, when a person consumes sweet water and a little fiber, then it

accumulates fatty tissue, it could not be otherwise, and muscle tissue will be lost all this time, because protein is not supplied at all, but... in it every minute, not like every day, every minute exists in the body, and the body, regarding the situation as stressful, because a very important, the most important macronutrient has stopped flowing, it will spend muscle mass, muscle losing weight is very bad, this is just such a process that i would call pathological, but in general this is old age, well, of course, this is old age, this is sarcopine, this is when fat accumulates, and we... transfer it to the muscle tissue that is more important to it , this is heartfelt, no, he not only distills it into muscularly, it of course supports the heart muscle, everything that although we can say what kind of muscle

tissue we don’t need, well, we don’t talk about skeletal muscle tissue, let’s say, yes, okay, in principle it’s possible. only one thing is important to her: are you healthy or not, are you reproducible or not, and where muscle tissue is destroyed, there is usually trouble, and it’s not very good to pass on such genetics, well, figuratively speaking, so when...