well, some kind of guide, or a trainer , if you like, but for the client, and who allows the client to learn some or more adaptive strategies of behavior, or a more reasonable way of thinking, yes, because it occurs in some kind of stressful situation, a person may begin to think that god, what a horror , i can’t cope with this, i don’t know what to do, for example, he is afraid to fly, for example, this is your, just typical of your situation, it seems to me that i have. ..

anxiety if the client has learned these thoughts follow and if he has learned to concentrate on them. okay , now let's see what psychological analysts or analytical psychologists tell us about this, and in this case darya represents the jung school, which is still different from , for example, the same school, probably the basic one, the most famous of sigmund freud. what are the main positions of your direction, what do you stand on, jung’s analytical psychology, here is his photograph, this is a deep psychological approach, yes, the school, the psychotherapeutic model, it takes its toll origins, in the twenty-second year, jung presented it as a model after his such a protracted...

crisis on the one hand, on the other hand - a very productive creative period, where he actually created it, and you mentioned freud, it all started after their break in the fourteenth year, and he, well, that is, created his own direction, while i still base some things, of course, on the concept of psychoanalysis, and analytical psychology is a psychodynamic approach, that is... an approach that looks at the psyche as something that develops dynamically, and this approach will be interested in hidden motives, hidden conflicts, childhood traumas, that’s also true, and in general what happens at a deep unconscious level, and this is jung’s model of personality, but one of the variants of the image, in his own personality in fact. to put it simply, into three

parts: personal, everything that concerns the personality and his consciousness, yes, there will be an ego, a persona, well, it’s correct to depict a persona above the ego, because a persona is like a mask, yes, in fact, from latin, translated from in latin, this is a mask, this is a kind of construct that protects the image of me, here it seems to me that cbt therapy has no questions, but you are with this upper part, where i say: the person you work normally, yes, that’s it, what is within the framework of consciousness, and partly unconsciously , the most interesting thing begins here, here , where anime and animus appear for us, the self appears, the shadow, and in general some kind of world of some kind of utter mystery, some kind of utter mystery , uh-huh, yes, actually, this is a conscious personal one, it goes further the unconscious is personal, and then after it is still collective. the conscious is actually

three such parts and a shadow - this is a construct in the individual, which, you know, is on the border of the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, everything that is under it is the same collective unconscious that jung, so to speak, discovered, suggested and worked with it with this concept, freud worked to the personal unconscious, that’s where they actually happened... and now a person comes to you who didn’t get through to door to arthur, uh-huh and says: i have to go on a plane tomorrow, i’m afraid i can’t, what will you work with, with arthur everything is clear, he will tell you the statistics, yes, he will show you how to breathe, where to look, in general everything is quite transparent here, but where are you going in the long term, yes, i would tell him that we need long-term work in order to... understand the true

unconscious reasons for his fear, that’s what, for example, maybe well, from practice or from christomathy, what may lie unexpected for us... ordinary viewers are afraid of flying, in aerophobia? a lot of things , but most likely, some kind of traumatic experience that is unconscious, it may be very early, it may be that the person does not remember it, it may be a pre-verbal story, that is, before he even began to speak, and it’s impossible to remember this, and it’s even possible that it could be a trauma that happened in the perinatal period, for example, even during pregnancy, right? when he was in the womb, yes, yes, when for example, not i know that my mother was going through some very strong stress, she had experiences in general, well, yes, on the verge of life and death, her feelings, yes, that is, for her it was like that, or, perhaps, a very traumatic birth, so , well

, that is, in a deep approach, we would look, that is, we would diagnose how a person defends himself, yes, what is it? for a method of defense, in psychodynamic approaches there is a system of seven basic defense mechanisms, psychoanalysis is called character, in analytical psychology it is called complexes, it’s like a way to protect yourself from unpleasant experiences, in the case of phobias, well, there is always a question about fear, and about such basic fear, this is a certain type. yes, this character complex with which we would already be working. arthur, well, you don’t go that deep, yes, you don’t work for 3 years, you, well, i don’t know how short-term, cognitive therapy is one of the fastest therapies in terms of implementation,

by and large, in many ways, now, when we are trying to achieve efficiency in working with a client, we are forced to use synthetic methods, that is, this is some synthesis of different techniques, current approaches, they, in principle, in my opinion, are on such a wave, on the rise. we had an example with flying, yes, with aerophobia, and there was an example about the fact that a person somehow thinks about it incorrectly, well, let’s say, in cognitive behavioral therapy, and it is a method of therapy that works only with the present, that is, and if we are talking about cognitive methods in general, then they address the client’s past quite well, but specifically cognitive behavioral therapy, she works according to the classics, she works mainly in the sphere of the present, but still about what thoughts and feelings arise now, and let’s say, yes, we worked on the topic of flights and it disappeared, but the topic of snakes arose, that is, i don’t i was afraid of snakes, you

have worked with me, so i have aerophobia, i come and say: arthur, and now i am afraid of snakes, after some time, for example, when the phobia spread from one object to another. i’m afraid of snakes, because i was walking, for example, along the path at the dacha, and a snake crawled, and if we have such a situation, then it will most likely still be local, and i would not consider it within the framework of something systemic, that is, aerophobia, which spilled over into a phobia of snakes, and if a person was not afraid before, well, let’s say, spiders, but now suddenly he is be afraid of spiders , after his aerophobia went away, of course, and no spider ever bit him in exotic countries, and he didn’t spit venom, then we say that okay, this is something systemic, there is some kind of fear that flows, and in cognitive behavioral therapy it would be rather, no longer a local way of thinking, but

some general concept about how a person thinks, and even about how he perceives some kind of threat in his life, and... i would, for example, deepen and specify the topic, ask : ok, you are afraid of snakes, and then what, yes, that’s what exactly scares you? address of the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, to the federal assembly, live broadcast, tomorrow at 12:00 moscow time. this is a psychic podcast, and today with our psychologists we are talking about different methods. psychotherapy, as in solving a specific problem of a simple modern person, all this is used, what arthur says is more or less clear to me, yes, how do you use this knowledge, this system of knowledge to help your client, well

depending on the task, yes, because the same jung, he said, said that when a person comes for analysis, you work as his shadow for 3 years, and he says, until you process the shadow, no particular archetypes for you, well then is only in the attention of the therapist, perhaps that is what is needed understand, integrate, he called it integrating your shadow, that is, your own. unconscious personal and parts , then, for example, you can deepen the client there if he has, well, a request for this, for greater deepening, the yunk generally called this some kind of spiritual work, he suggested - this level, yes, as a certain kind spiritual search for a western person, in fact, that a western person lacks this, yes, that’s why there is such a... offered such a model, but he also said that this is not for everyone, that is, the majority are at the level of the shadow and

there are some symbols, of course, we take archetypes in the work, yes, but this is more of an analyst, well, yes, i now understand why, when criticizing analytical directions, opponents say that it is almost impossible to collect evidence, but arthur, well, for as a cognitive psychologist, the archetype is not very clear to me. the concept is rather vague, abstract, but the word itself is a concept that is understandable to me, and yes, there really is a concept, yes, which has been shown by cross-cultural studies to be general, well for example, the image of a wheel, the concept of a wheel as something round, as a symbol, well, like some symbols, but this is really something that is found in all modern cultures, even among the papuans. you know what, let’s move on to life, okay, because it’s very beautiful, very interesting, exciting

, we’re talking about the theoretical part, but we’ll try to apply your approaches, of course, and i would like you to show each of you the best, yes or the most vivid of your approaches to a specific situation, situation not an easy one, and many people, middle-aged people recognize themselves in this situation. put it on pause , it has stopped making him happy for about four years now , he wants to give up everything, he wants somehow everything doesn’t make him happy, or rather, as he says, in his anamnesis, as he describes his situation, there is disappointment in the fact that no children. yeah, he and his wife wanted a child, all their friends have children, he doesn’t have a child, in

his request he does not directly connect his lack of joy only with the fact that there is no child, he rather describes it as one of circumstances in his life, so joyless, and he describes his situation, his feelings as a dead end: i’m walking in circles and i’m at a dead end, it’s annoying that i’m doing the same thing, it’s annoying that i... feel like i should, that i’m not confident in myself, and it’s difficult for me to get close to people with my wife i often feel guilty, yes, that is , what are our key words, what a dead end, i feel guilty , there is no joy in life, as a circumstance, childlessness, request, what do i do, we are talking about the fact that the feeling of guilt will arise from certain cognitions, for example, there is...

we , unfortunately, did not cope with this responsibility, then, yes, then, for example, there was a promotion at work, you seemed to want it, because more money, yes, and a good position, you will have your own office, but then you realize that you can’t handle it, for example, taking a step back is already very difficult psychologically, you just start to devour yourself with this guilt that you can’t cope, uh-huh, uh-huh, then a psychologist can really - make this situation crystal clear... give the person options, for example, that is, he can stay in

within the framework of this position, but then it will be some kind of conscious sacrifice, and what will he then sacrifice, if he wants to stay , he will have to work more, yes, for example, that is, he will have to sacrifice some part of his personal life in order to stay in this position, or maybe you can lead him to the idea of ​​leaving, for example, as an option, that is, going back. psychologists rather give different options, look at what is inside a person’s value system, his beliefs, if his beliefs rather speak about what is important to him... to remain in this position, because this touches some of his deep things, and deep, i mean beliefs, there, for example, a self-esteem level, and maybe even a semantic level, but i work there, because this work there is extremely necessary for me, significant, i i feel like i’m in

the right place, i feel like i’m, well, for example, making the world a better place by being in this job, and what if. earning money to support, support parents or children, this can also make sense, okay, here you are, your task is to get to the bottom of what is happening with this hero of ours here now, to understand what simple visual meanings he may have in a month, in a year, and to remove these, rather, some of the crystallized ones that are characteristic of him as a person, and despite the fact that this will manifest themselves in the actual field, that is... here now, these are still some more stable, more crystallized structures that are personal. but tell me some techniques that you will use, just so that we can open up your kitchen and captcha a little? most cbt techniques are verbal techniques, that is, they are still part of a conversation, for example,

homework is very often used in cbt. what kind of homework could this particular client have? for example, start keeping a diary of your own thoughts, not feelings, just thoughts that arise, well, for example, in the workplace, if we are talking about work, as about this conflict zone, for example, what is there , i don’t have time, yes, maybe be, or i don’t want to go to the meeting, such thoughts, or what ? yes, among these thoughts there will probably be those thoughts that are key, that will help unravel this tangle, show exactly what values ​​he has, well, for example, how tired i am, but i won’t... give up, it seems i can’t cope with this, but if i give up , okay, he wrote these thoughts, what next? uh-huh, then we use these thoughts , well, some field to search for problems, to concretize these problems, and we will solve the problem itself in dialogue within the session, well, for example,

reformulate his beliefs, if we find it good, his thoughts, i no i don't again i have time. what is your task to reformulate this thought into? if i can’t keep up with this thought, then in itself it is not very destructive, a cognitive psychologist will rather dig into more, for example, for more general ones, then we will say on the basis of what this belief arose, for example, on the basis of the fact that i i stopped keeping up, then it was me. an obvious violation of logic, yes, this is not some kind of dysfunctional belief, i have stopped keeping up and i am a loser, but this happens beyond generalization, you need to unravel this connection, firstly, break it this connection, any person can not keep up, the fact that he did not have time at work does not automatically make him a loser,

the same losers can have time, but not cease to be losers, in that joke, and today i am proud of it. for example, but our task is to make his life comfortable, so that he comes to some conclusion for himself, for example, even decides that the work is not worth it, and it is worth moving to a lower position in order to maintain his own comfort , his own well-being, this can also be the case, and this can also be the meaning of life, yes to live not driven, in some kind of comfort , for example, because if he is not driven, is in comfort, then he comes home, not driven, but alive, and he can give more love, more comfort, more warm, pleasant feelings to his loved ones, and this is also very important, all this is here now, but naturally, we work within actual experiences, in a fairly short time, in a fairly short time, daria, uh-huh, uh-huh, our

client, let me remind you, yes, uh-huh, he feels guilty , actually stands between, exactly, you know, on border, that is, the first thing we say, dear - this is normal, exactly like that, here, plus - this is, of course, a personal

, personal deep psychological crisis, namely analytical psychology, it works a lot with this, in fact, because jung created his analytical psychology in a personal crisis, when he got somewhere around 40 years old, so what would i work with him personally.

years, which sprouted, laid sprouts, these grains under the snow of life, yes, which then, by the age of 40, suddenly sprouted, when not you really wanted to, but they got through, but it would have helped me to see his situation in its entirety sooner, yeah.

most likely this is a responsible one, let’s assume, yes, we diagnosed him, this is a person with a heightened sense of responsibility

, duty, respectively, empathy, probably the ability to share the feelings of others , to actually understand our own, yes, and this, well, i would also follow him values, most likely it is in the center of his values, and at the same time to him. it’s hard to say no, yes, to defend your boundaries, but he takes too much of himself, yes, we would work with this too. this is a psychic podcast, watch all episodes on the website of the first channel, let's give examples when you would still send a client to each other, yeah, or some situation, or some character. arthur, who would you like to share? than with daria, for example, indeed, there are clients for whom metaphors are much easier,

images and working through such a channel are much easier, uh-huh, while cognitive psychology is still more about words , concepts, uh-huh, and indeed, if this one channel, words, concepts, behavior, thoughts are something difficult for a person?

this is also an archetypal plot for psychodynamic approaches, you know how , i don’t remember who said it, but in general the phrase goes like this: in order to find yourself, you need to find a good-bad mom, a good bad dad, find a good one within yourself , bad yourself, then you, this is some kind of splitting of personality, dispersion, i would say personality, splitting is when mom is only bad or dad is only good or i’m only bad, uh. in general, here's to collect this a complete picture, and for this, for this , you need to accordingly go to this experience, which, well, did not allow a person to separate , there is something that means to go, something, yes , something, something happened there, but again , we collect anamnesis, talk to her about how her early childhood was structured, how her relationships were structured later, how they are structured now, based on this picture of the family,

but that’s what i heard. as if, uh , the façade is holding up, uh, people there don’t really seem to have feelings, and most likely it’s mine hypothesis, because you outlined , this is the impossibility of separation, there is a certain ban on aggression, yes, on the manifestation of anger, and he is like, you know, passive, here you did something wrong, here is something such irritation is background, accordingly, and since a person cannot separate. this is what it means to rebuild your personal boundaries, and even your ego, that i am separate, my parents are separate, then anger is an emotion that signals us when our boundaries are violated, so we already see that a girl needs to work in general with the manifestation of her own anger, to understand what aggression is, aggression, in my opinion, comes from ancient greek, if

i’m not mistaken, it’s... for the best, carefully, well, yes, in the cognitive-behavioral approach, uh-huh, if we are talking specifically about the cognitive-behavioral approach, then we would rather talk about the present, because the cognitive-behavioral approach does not involve going into the long past, and onam they would gather us, but still focus on what our heroine feels about himself in relation to his mother now, and what is her attitude? thought

about ourselves, that is, we would, for example, begin to work with the image of ourselves with those thoughts that we have in relation to ourselves, with those thoughts and attitudes that we have in relation to our mother, and accordingly, that is, for example, i am bad daughter, and mother is the ideal woman that i cannot become, and this is not necessarily the case, because if we talk about the fact that she cannot separate, we are talking about insufficient autonomy, which means... it’s more a matter of lack of confidence in itself, inability to rely on oneself, inability to think positively to oneself, but rather there will be negative thoughts about the fact that i can’t cope with this life, i alone am not worth anything, i don’t know how to live on my own, and so on, that is, if we delved into the cognitive level, we would see some kind of destructive beliefs like this, well, if it ’s a woman, but for a man it

happens differently, a man can come too. everyone has negative beliefs, yeah, that is, here is the problem of separation, we just have a request from a woman, but the problem of separation, based on your practice, it is typical for both men and women, it is universal. rather about another, a different way of thinking, breaking rather yes, that is, this is a cognitive approach, the old habit of thinking, i’m simplifying, but now, breaking the old habit of thinking and the formation of

other more adaptive habits, surprisingly interesting, friends, fascinating psychology, which is all- science and art, and we will try to continue to understand it with you, in this format too. consider not only different situations and problems, but also different approaches, and as you and i saw, that this is indeed creativity, sometimes it is a conflict of these concepts, and sometimes, as we again were able to see in the example of our today's heroes, our today's experts, sometimes it can be such a joint activity, but it would seem poorly compatible - scientific concepts, psychologist arthur timofeev, who today presented the cognitive-behavioral approach and... psychologist daria pankratova, who revealed to us today the main parameters of jung’s analytical psychology. podcast psyche.

this is the life of the remarkable podcast. and i am with you, its presenter, writer.

didn't you watch? no, you haven’t finished, how can you watch it? she was at the venice festival, and tuyara, the pig-killer, the main character of the film, she died. i have an idea

to act in films, myself? it’s simple, really, just learn the words, wish that it will rain, then that’s it. so we watched the trailer for this film, and i understand that you have already talked about alexei balabanov many times, well, we all came out of the soviet union anyway, but we all came out anyway from soviet culture, from the soviet environment, we are still soviet people, whether we want it or not, we like it, we don’t like it all, do you think this had an influence on balabanov? or does what i say actually have no meaning? i don’t often talk about balabanov, okay , that means, well, as a part, blavanov made films

of himself, a significant part of his life was spent in the soviet union, in this sense the question, the answer, that is, is obvious, well, of course, including that experience, the one talked about in the trailer. and he as a military man the translator fed to the south, ethiopia, yemen and so on and so on. uh, yes, he began his first directorial experiments in soviet times, here are his short films, a wonderful, let’s say, non -fiction, documentary film by nastya egor, it was also filmed in 1987, that is, when, well, this is also the soviet union, that is yes, but this, well, this may explain something, and something. i don’t know

if this has any significant significance for those who love balabanu’s films and want to somehow understand them deeper, for example, i really i love balabanov’s films, i really want to understand them more deeply, and he very often baffles me, because the feeling is that one film doesn’t exactly negate the other, but at least imagine that... the films are exactly different because

he was not a slave to the lamp, that i had found some kind of intonation, some kind of direction, so i will do it persistently, he was not a person, well, they often say about writers, he writes one good book all his life in the sense of the word, yes, that he is cultivating some kind of topic that he excites, in which he feels, understands, which is a dialogue with the reader, i will film this, and then i will film this, in

the first half of his creative life, from a creative excess, what is called creating. but tell me, please, when you met, you immediately understood the scale of this man, his talent. we met at the higher directing courses, since we were placed in the same so-called block on the sixteenth floor of the yuka dormitory. well, naturally, we... immediately started talking about cinema, we immediately realized that we were in some sense on the same wavelength, in relation to cinema, it was exactly the year eighty-seven, and we just , of course, talked endlessly about cinema, all sorts of ideas and so on and so on and just became friends and were friends, made some plans, of course, then these plans , we began to carry them out, to get closer to their implementation

, because he was a very close person to me, and becket is not a gift, it ’s some kind of abstruse, absurd, absurd, yes, and how is it in translate the movie, in general, i was afraid that i would watch it all now, and something to me you will have to say, okay, say it, and most importantly, something may collapse, disappointment, right?

and the association somehow persuaded linfilm to do this, in the end they decided to take the first step, contacted the norwegians, yes, they were also interested, although they were somehow... somehow amazed by the free treatment of the gentleman from their point of view, although all the freedom was that i included it, including a story about the same hero, which was written by the same hamsun, and there was such a structure, where the novel and the story, they were actually confused by this,

basically it was, well, everything was according to gamson, the norwegians said, yes, well, okay, we will probably participate, we went to our son, to the heir. i was right and it turned out that 2 days before the visit of our norwegian representative , an american producer came to my son and bought the rights from him, well, that’s it - the story collapsed for the second time, i didn’t have a film studio yet, but i filmed the happy days of the workshop herman, that means his next film had a castle, we also wrote there together scenario.

after all, returning to the film, brother , but look, a man shoots like a bull, shoots like a kavka, well, that is, it’s like an intellectual movie with a western direction, how after these films the idea of ​​a brother suddenly arises, everything happens simply, like a person he wakes up, who knows how, so oh, what thought came into my head, some idea, something behind it, through the magic crystal, did something dawn there? yes, look, i’m thinking, here, there’s something about this, yes, why not, and, well, that’s it, this is about, well it’s simple, it just happens, in this , it seems to me, you don’t need to look for some kind of artist, his complex path, his contradictory development, all this is not about us, well, like a dog

who is looking for the grass that he needs there today for some kind of canine reasons, so... it’s all to the touch, it ’s all very sensual, there’s little rationality in it, and it’s somehow like that, in my opinion, it’s arranged, there’s art, whatever you call it, creativity , creativity, something flew into my head and settled there, i wrote the script very quickly, simply because there’s a lot there were all sorts of different scattered ideas, what do you need, but you don’t have a pill for your headache? pashkarat is injecting, you better drink vodka , no, i need a pill, i don’t know yet who will star in the film, i can’t write a script, you know, well, let’s go if it’s like this, the story is born in advance, but when you write it yourself, you

have to write for specific objects and for specific people, i had to figure out where to shoot, sweet bread. i’ve known each other for a long time, well, in general, somehow everything should have turned out this way, it’s important for me that it was, there were heroes, heroes appeared, everything appeared at once, brother brother, okay, look, it means his brother is directing, it’s a success, everything is clear, but the film brother-2 is not only a continuation of the film brother, yes, it’s a different film, well, it’s a different film, so the task, in fact, is one the voice said, when listen, in one voice. literally this is not a figure of speech, what brother two and we will do at the same time, only in a different way, only it will be a different film, it was clear that due to the fact that the film... brother became very necessary for our people, it was clear that somehow brother 2 probably won’t comprehend, no,

it’s better that’s all, no, he’ll probably be quite noticeable, at least, yes , there was no calculation in this, in fact, even when the film was being filmed, brother, we said something about the fact that he went to moscow, and what next , well, lyosha said, well, next... moscow, then america, so it was said in advance, but, but not in advance, we seemed to assume, well, lyosha assumed, yes, that there would be two films, one about moscow, another about america, then he decided that it was boring for a long time, and he combined them into one, but i it seems that many people who accepted the film brother, they did not accept the film brother-2, every person is also free, that as a viewer, he is definitely free, every person, you calculate the audience's reaction, roughly speaking, there are two types of films, author's and spectators, and the boundaries between

them are conditional, but it is quite understandable , nevertheless, and so on and so forth, and the goal setting in the two cases is different, naturally he wants the author’s cinema to be watched by millions, but we understand that this is very, very unlikely, and there motivation is goal setting, it’s different.

makes a movie and thinks how to make it so that everyone likes it, the european director thinks how to make it so that i like it, both of them are honest, because the american director believes that he was given money, yes, he is obliged, it’s his work , so that the money comes back, he, he has no right to put something of his own there, if he likes oranges there, and the viewer likes apples, he must, of course, give the apples to the viewer, and the european director... i think that if i’m honest i will not manipulate these dramatic techniques that americans hook the viewer, i will do it honestly,

then it will be fair to the viewer, i really want everyone to like it, but so that it is mine, so that i don’t lie, do not manipulate them, but so that i speak honestly and everyone would love me, so this turns out to be an auteur cinema, as a rule, the question is understood, and the russian director, audience cinema has become a producer's film in russia. the role of the director of spectator cinema is extremely great, but with rare exceptions he is not, as it were, the initiator; he is invited to work, there is a script, this is a huge responsibility, well, no, as a rule, these are production developments, but returning, it is a great pity, because we suffer from the fact that directors...