what kind of anxiety he experiences or how it goes away, then behavioral therapy, it developed in the works of our western colleagues, and behaviorism arose earlier, that is, this is a movement that studies the behavior of not only humans, but also animals, and somewhere in the fifties, the sixties of the last century behaviorism merged with cognitive psychologists, with cognitive models. and some kind of fusion began to form, cognitive behavioral therapy. now we are already talking about such a more advanced and humanistic version of cognitive-behavioral therapy, which probably takes into account some of the person’s experiences. naturally, or does it all just come down to reflexes? no, no, no, naturally, the model is much more complex now than it was then. however, there are some commonalities. for example, the idea that...

through cognitions, that is, through our thoughts, which are expressed in words, but we can influence emotions and we can correct our own behavior. i understand correctly that you work only with consciousness, yes, naturally, in this case, the psychologist acts more like, well, some kind of guide, yes, or a trainer, if you like, but for the client, and who allows the client to learn, yes, some... or more adaptive strategies of behavior, or a more reasonable way of thinking, yes, because when faced with some kind of stressful situation, a person may begin to think that god, what a horror , i can’t cope with this, i don’t know what to do, for example, he is afraid to fly, for example, this is your, just typical of your situation, it seems to me, i mean for psychologists who work in prophobia, one of the most typical, and you are simply teaching the client about nothing.

not to think, but simply not to be afraid, at the level of some reflexes, at the level of some reactions, partly yes, rather transforming those anxious thoughts that visit the client while boarding a plane, during the flight, into thoughts more of a healthier, more reasonable nature, and naturally this reduces anxiety if the client has learned to follow these thoughts and if he has learned to concentrate on them, okay? now let 's see what psychological analysts or analytic analysts tell us about this psychologists, and in this case darya represents the jung school, which is still different from , for example, the same school, probably the basic one, the most famous of sigund freud. what are the main positions of your direction, where do you stand? jung's analytical psychology, here he is. his photograph, and this is a deep

psychological approach, yes, a school, a psychotherapeutic model, it takes its origins, in the twenty-second year, jung presented it, and as a model, after his such a protracted, professional crisis on the one hand, on the other hand very productive creative period, where he actually created it. and you mentioned freud, uh, it all started after their breakup in 1914, and he, well, that is, created his own direction, and, at the same time, some things were still based, of course, on the concept of psychoanalysis. and, uh, analytical psychology is a psychodynamic approach, that is, uh, an approach that, uh, looks at the psyche as something that develops dynamically. and, ah, this approach. it will be interesting hidden

motives, hidden conflicts, childhood traumas, yes, that too, and in general what happens on deep unconscious level , and this is a model of personality according to jung, but one of the options for depicting him, in fact, the personality is divided, to put it simply, into three parts: personal, everything that concerns the personality and his consciousness, yes, it will be here. it’s like a mask, yes , actually from latin, translated from latin, this is a mask, this is a kind of construct that protects the image of me, here it seems to me that cbt therapy has no questions, yes, you are with this upper part , where is the egoperson, you work normally, yes, everything that is within consciousness, yes, and partially unconsciously

, yes, in fact, this is the conscious personal , then comes the unconscious personal, then , after it there is also the collective unconscious, in fact there are three such parts, and the shadow, this is a construct in the individual, which, you know, is on the border of the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, everything that is under it is the same collective unconscious that jung, well, how to say, discovered and proposed.

an experience that is unconscious, it may be very early, it may be that the person does not remembers, this could be a verbal history, that is, before he even began to speak, and it is impossible to remember this, yes, and it is even possible, this could be a trauma that happened in the perinatal period, for example, even during pregnancy, yes

, when he was in the womb, yes, yes, when , for example, i don’t know, my mother was experiencing some very strong stress, she had experiences in general, well... yes, on the verge of life and death, her feelings, yes , that is, for her it was like that, or, perhaps, a very traumatic birth, so, well, that is, in in a deep approach, we would look , that is, we would diagnose how a person defends himself, yes, what kind of defense is this, and in psychodynamic approaches there is a system of seven basic defense mechanisms, psychoanalysis is called character, in analytical psychology it is called complexes, this is like a method to protect yourself from unpleasant experiences, in the case of phobias, well, there is always a question about fear, and such basic fear, this is

a certain type, and this character complex that we would already be working with, arthur, well, here you are you don’t go that deep, and you’re not working in a trig. you, well, i don’t know how short-term, cognitive therapy is one of the fastest therapies in terms of implementation, by and large, in many ways now, when we are trying to achieve efficiency in working with a client, we are forced to use synthetic methods, that is, this is some synthesis of different techniques, now synthetic approaches, they, in principle, in my opinion, are on such a wave on the rise, we had an example with flights, yes, with aerophobia, and there was... an example about the fact that a person is somehow doing something wrong thinks about this, well, let’s say, in cognitive behavioral therapy, and it is a method of therapy that works only with the present, that is, and if we are talking about cognitive methods in general, then they address the client’s past quite well, but

precisely cognitive behavioral therapy, it works according to the classics, it works mainly in the sphere of the present, but still about what... thoughts and feelings arise now, and let’s say, yes, we worked on the issue with flights and it disappeared, but the topic of snakes arose, that is, i was not afraid of snakes, you they worked with me, it means i have aerophobia , i come and say: arthur, and now i’m afraid of snakes, after some time, for example, when the phobia spread from one object to another, and you know why i’m afraid of snakes, but because for example, i was walking along the path at the dacha and a snake crawled, and if we have such a situation, then it will most likely... be local and i would not consider it within the framework of something systemic, that is, aerophobia, which spilled over into a phobia of snakes, and if a person probably wasn’t afraid before, well, let’s say spiders, and now he suddenly began to be afraid of spiders, after his aerophobia went away,

of course, and no spider had bitten him in exotic countries, and he didn’t spit poison, then we say that okay, this is what - something systemic, there is... some kind of fear that flows, in cognitive behavioral therapy it would rather be no longer a local way of thinking, but some... general concept, about how a person thinks, yes, and about the way he perceives some kind of threat in his life, and i would, for example, deepen and specify topic, asked, okay, are you afraid of snakes, and then what, yes, that’s what exactly scares you. this is a psychic podcast, and today with our psychologists we are talking about different methods of psychotherapy. how to solve a specific problem? a simple modern person , all this is used, what arthur says is more or less clear to me, yes, how

do you use this knowledge, this system of knowledge to help your client, well, depending on the task, yes, because that the same jung, he said, he said that when a person comes for analysis, you are 3 years old you work as his shadow, and he says, until you process the shadow, there are no archetypes for you in particular, well, that is, only in attention. the therapist is possible, that is, you need to figure it out, integrate, he called it integrating your shadow, that is, your unconscious personal parts, then, for example, you can deepen the client there if he has, well, a request for this, for greater deepening, jung in general, he called it some kind of spiritual work, he proposed this level, but as a certain type. spiritual search for western man, in fact, that western people lack this, yes

, that’s why there is such an instinct, he proposed such a model, but he also said that this is not for everyone, that is, the majority are at the shadow level and there are some symbols, of course, we take archetypes in our work , yes, but this is more of an analyst, well, yes, i now understand why, when criticizing analytical directions, opponents say that the evidence base. it’s almost impossible to collect, but arthur, well , for me, as a cognitive psychologist, archetype is not a very clear concept, it’s rather vague, abstract, but the word the word concept itself is understandable to me, and yes, there really is a concept, yes, which has been shown by cross-cultural studies to be general, well, for example, the image of a wheel, the concept of a wheel as something round, as a symbol, right?

good, because it’s very beautiful , very interesting, exciting, we’re talking about you know, let’s move on to life, the theoretical part, but let’s try to apply your approaches, of course, and i would like you to show each of you the best, yes , or the most striking of your approaches to a specific situation. the situation is difficult and many will recognize, middle-aged people will recognize themselves in this situation, let's discuss it: a young man is 40 years old, married, has a good job, and nothing makes him happy, or rather, as he says, it has stopped making him happy for about four years now, he wants to give up everything, he wants to somehow put all this on pause. in the annals, as he describes his situation, there is disappointment

in the fact that there are no children, they wanted a child with their wife, all friends have children, he does not have a child, in his request he does not directly connect his lack of joy only with the fact that no child, he rather writes this as one of the circumstances of his life, which is so joyless, and he describes his situation, his feelings as stupid. i’m walking in circles and i’m at a dead end, it’s annoying that i do the same thing, it’s annoying that i feel like i have to, that i’m not confident in myself, and it’s difficult for me to get close to people, with my wife i often feel guilty, yes, then there are some key words we have, that dead end, i feel guilty, there is no joy in life, as a circumstance, childlessness, request, what do i need? we're talking about that the feeling of guilt will arise from certain cognitions, for example, and there is a zone

of responsibility, each of us, yes, has a certain zone of responsibility, when we fail to cope with this responsibility, we feel guilty, accordingly, or and we are talking about that that the guilt is true, or are we talking about the fact that the guilt is false, that is, or imposed, for example, for example, yeah. yes, then, for example, there was a promotion at work, you seemed to want it, because there was more money, yes, and a good position, you will have your own office, and then you realize that you are not you take out, for example, it’s already very difficult psychologically to take a step back and you just start to devour yourself with this guilt that you can’t cope, uh-huh, uh-huh, then a psychologist can really make this situation

crystal clear, uh, give a person options, for example, well, that is, he can remain within the framework of this position, but then it will be some kind of conscious sacrifice, and what will he then sacrifice, if he wants to become one, he will have to work more, yes, for example, that is, he will have to sacrifice some part of his personal life sacrifice in order to stay in this position, or maybe you can lead him to the idea of ​​leaving, for example, as an option, that is , to go back, psychologists rather give different options, this option is possible.

him, as for an individual, despite the fact that the crystallized ones that are characteristic of this will manifest themselves in the actual field, that is, here now, these are still some more stable, more crystallized structures that are personal, but tell me some techniques that you will use, well, just so that we we opened up your kitchen and the captain’s room a little,

most of the technical ones are verbal techniques, that is, it’s still part of a conversation, for example in cbt. homework is very often used, what kind of homework could this particular client have? for example, start keeping a diary of your own thoughts, not feelings, just thoughts that arise, well, for example, in the workplace, if we are talking about work, as about this conflict zone, for example, what is there , i don’t have time, yes, maybe be, or i don’t want to go to the meeting, such thoughts, or what, yes, among these thoughts there will certainly be those thoughts that are key, that... can unravel this tangle and show what kind of values ​​he has, well, for example, how tired i am, but i can’t give up, it seems i’m with it i can’t cope, but if i retreat, okay, he wrote these thoughts, then what? then we use these thoughts as, well , some field for searching for problems, for

concretizing these problems, and we will solve the problems themselves in a dialogue within the session. well, for example, reformulate it as beliefs, if we we find well, his thoughts, i don’t have time again, what is your task to reformulate this thought? if this thought, i don’t have time, then in itself it is not very destructive, a cognitive psychologist would rather dig into more, for example, for more generalizing ones, then we will say, but on the basis of what? this belief arose , for example, on the basis of the fact that i stopped keeping up, then this is a clear violation of logic, yes, this is not some kind of dysfunctional belief, i stopped keeping up and i’m a loser, but such an over-generalization occurs, you you need to uncouple this link, firstly, break this link, any person can not have time, the fact that he did not have time at

work does not automatically make him a failure. the same losers can succeed , but not cease to be losers, vekdote , and today i am proud of this, for example, but our task is to make his life comfortable, so that he comes to some conclusion for himself, for example, even decides that the work is not worth it, and it is worth moving to a lower position in order to maintain your own comfort well-being, this can also be the case, and this can also be the meaning of life, but to live not driven, in comfort, for example, because if he is not driven, is in comfort, then he comes home, not driven, but alive, and he can more love. more comfort , more warm, pleasant feelings to give to your loved ones, and this is also very important, all this is here now, and of course, we work within

current experiences, quite short terms, and quite short terms, daria, yeah, our client, let me remind you, yeah, yeah, he's experiencing it feeling of guilt, looking for the meaning of life, not finding it, not finding it, running in circles. drives himself even more into such an unpleasant state, realizing that he is running in circles, burdened by the absence of a child, uh-huh, well, this is the ideal client of a jungian analyst or analytical psychologist, but i’ll explain why, he is 40 years old, this is a mid-life crisis, yumg, besides among other things, one of his famous ideas was that he divided life into two halves, the first half of life and the second half of life, and to put it simply, he said: well to translate this into simple language, then the first half of life is for getting confused, the second half of life is for getting unraveled, that’s right, and a person actually stands between, exactly, you know, on the

border, that is, the first thing you we say, expensive is normal, yes exactly, that’s a plus - this is, of course , a personal, deep psychological crisis, namely analytical psychology, which works a lot with this, in fact, because jung created his analytical psychology in a personal crisis, when when he got there somewhere around 40 years old, so well, what would i work with with his personal crisis of meaning , he has a crisis of meaning, he calls it himself, i would show him, well, i would demonstrate this idea about the fact that there was the first half life in order to get confused , now is a great time to get unraveled, i would show him the perspective, because it is very important for him to show this perspective, he does not see it, and i would also show him through certain interventions that his request to the inner meaning, and he searches for himself, but transfers it to some external objects, and a child who did not

happen, i would pull this meaning from the child, conditionally, and transfer it to the person inside, well, i would invite him to see it too, of course i would collect if only his medical history, that is... what is his history of early childhood, what happened in his life, what defenses he has, yes, what actually protects him from such a deep movement towards himself, would make them more flexible, and in the process, that is, you could detect something, conditionally speaking, in his early childhood, at the age of three or 5 years, what sprouted, laid sprouts, these grains under the snow of life, yes, which then by the age of 40... suddenly sprouted, when you didn’t really want to, but they made their way , well, it would help me more quickly to see his situation as a whole, yes, what kind of person he is, to actually deal with his

feelings of guilt, what else was there, satisfaction, well, you would have discovered that the roots of his feelings of guilt of today’s forty-year-old lie in his early childhood, i don’t know what your relationship with your parents is like will you say that this didn’t happen, or something, no, why are we doing this, i agree in this sense with arthur, that... that is, there are certain things that bother him, they also need to be dealt with, guilt, for example , there is no self-confidence, in the psychodynamic and approach in the model, i would determine what kind of character or ego defense this is, and from this, from this concept, i already understood what resources he has, what he can rely on, strengths that can be shown, and what he has on the contrary, well, let's put it this way, weaknesses, yes, what prevents him from moving, what he needs.

this is a psychic podcast, watch all episodes on the channel one website, let's give examples of when you would still refer each other's clients. arthur, who or what would you share with daria, for example, indeed, there are

clients for whom... metaphors are much easier, images are much easier and work through such a channel, while cognitive psychology is still more about words concepts, yeah, and indeed, if this channel, words, concepts, behavior, thoughts are something difficult for a person, it is much easier for him to turn to something metaphorical, yeah. then, of course, darya will cope with this much better. daria, in what situation would you send your client to arthur? and, well, for example, if a person comes with some kind of pronounced phobias, they directly interfere with his life on a behavioral level. i definitely do, and sometimes i do this, that is, i say that we need to remove, yes, this level, and just cognitive-behavioral therapy, yes, she's doing a great job with it, that's it. well, i

would rather add that within the framework of cognitive concepts, other approaches also cope with this, for example, imdr is also part of such a cognitive galaxy, and cognitive therapies, and this is the method that works with phobias, great, if such an example, is also one of the most frequent requests, since we are talking about adults, when an adult comes, well, let’s say here, let it be a woman, yeah, and says that she cannot...

in general, put together this complete picture, a for this, for this, you need to accordingly go into this experience, which, well, did not allow a person to separate, there is something there that means going into an experience, something, yes, something, something happened there, but again we collect anamnesis, talk to her, how

was it arranged for her? childhood, how her relationships were structured later, how they are structured now, based on this picture of the family, but what i heard seemed to be - well , the façade holds up, people there don’t really have feelings, and most likely this is my hypothesis, because you indicated, this is it the impossibility of separation, there is a certain ban on aggression, yes, on the manifestation of anger, and it is like this, you know, how...

one’s own anger to understand what aggression is, aggression, in my opinion, translated from ancient greek, if i’m not mistaken, this is a movement forward, two words, that is, aggression, movement forward, that this is not scary , but, well, accordingly, we would do this in therapy, yes, we would learn to withstand it, then the moment would come, definitely, when anger would rise and aggression towards parents, and it was also possible to live through it, and after that it was already could be built.

with those thoughts that i have in relation to myself, with those thoughts and attitudes that i have in relation to my mother, and accordingly, that is, for example, i am a bad daughter, and my mother is the ideal woman that i cannot become, and not this is definitely true, because if we talk about the fact that she cannot separate, we are talking about insufficient autonomy, which means that it’s more likely a matter of lack of self-confidence, inability to do oneself. rely on the inability to think positively to oneself, but rather there will be negative thoughts about the fact that i am with this life i can’t cope, i’m not worth anything on my own, i don’t know how to live on my own, and so on , that is, if we delved into the cognitive

level, we would see some kind of destructive beliefs, but well, this is if a woman, and a man has - does this happen differently? everyone has negative beliefs. yeah, that is the problem. the problem here now is to learn how to somehow correct it in a month like this in the moment, but if there were some reasons from childhood, then this is already kdaria, most likely yes, that is, and this is a cognitive approach, more likely about another, a different way of thinking, breaking the old

habit of thinking, i’m simplifying, but now, breaking the old habit of thinking and the formation of other more adaptive habits, surprisingly interesting, friends, fascinating psychology, which... is still science and art, and we ’ll try with to continue to understand you, in this format too, to consider not only different situations, problems, but also different approaches, and as you and i saw, this is really creativity, sometimes it is a conflict of these concepts, and sometimes this is how we again we could see in the example our today's heroes, our today 's experts, sometimes it can be such a joint activity, but it would seem bad with... compatible scientific concepts , psychologist arthur timofeev, who presented the cognitive-behavioral approach today, and psychologist daria pankratova, who revealed to us the main jung's parameters of analytical psychology.

psych podcast. we are glad to welcome you to the podcast deception of substances and its host, editor-in-chief of komsomolskaya pravda olesya nosova and i am an endocrinologist zuhra pavlova. today we let's talk about an important, very interesting topic about obesity that we get from fruits. and in fact, this is also one of those topics that lies on the surface, but which not everyone, as they say, reaches. this fall we found out. the word fattening, this was said in relation to manul timosha from the moscow zoo, who by winter went through this process of fattening, from 2 kg increased to 6 kg, this is how it is with manuls:

to gain fat by winter, the word fattening, in my opinion, is wonderful , the same word zhezhirovka, in general, can be called what happens to a person when he eats a lot. fruits, fruits and the fructose they contain are an ideal way to gain fat, prepare for winter, yes, prepare for winter, in fact, bears gain their bulk, despite the fact that they are such predators, ferocious, terrible, and so on, they gain most of their weight, or rather fat , from berries, fruits, and so on, and not from what you would think, absolutely, i’ll deviate a little now, we somehow went. border guards and said that according to that you can’t go along the path, because there was a bear once on donbai on the glacier, we were stopped eating raspberries, the bear is busy with a very important matter, he needs to go through a fattening, and being distracted

was somehow life-threatening, this is really so, that’s why he doesn’t come most people think that fruit is a sweetness, suddenly it is somehow connected with fat, because when... we see lard, well, there is probably a reason, but people assume that lard, fat also accumulates fat, and fruits and berries, this is sugar, some kind of sugar, plus they themselves are low in calories. if you look at the calorie content of, i don’t know, apples, what is the calorie content of apples, well , in my opinion, it seems to me, 50-60 kilocalories, approximately depending on the size, but what is very important here is what will happen later in the human body there or a bear, when you eat these apples, and it’s also very important how many of these apples you eat, and what’s also very important is how your appetite changes when you eat apples or whatever. other fruits, but more on that a little later, but for now i’ll also tell you how, as in

as an example , a patient once came to me and said: doctor, i lost weight so well, i was on a watermelon diet for a week, and my eyes are burning, the person is very happy, i say how much i lost, she says, more than five kilograms, i say , you know, let's now do a study on body composition analysis and you... see what you lost in relation to this lady was especially significant, because i had bioimpedance before, that is, the results of her body composition before, here after her diet, and i knew we would see, but talk about it first when the person came on such a rise is not very reasonable, it is better to show so that objective data are visible, well, in fact , what we saw was a sufficient loss of mass, and adipose tissue increased, and i began

to explain to her that watermelon or any other a fruit diet, a mono-diet, it involves the intake of only a specific component, yes, well, in particular, watermelon, this is a lot of water, this is glucose, this is fructose, and of course dietary fiber, which, by the way, is useful regarding dietary fiber, but there aren't any there a lot, after all, but there really aren’t very many of them, naturally, when a person consumes sweet water and a little fiber, he accumulates fatty tissue, it couldn’t be any other way, and muscle tissue will be lost all the time, because protein is not supplied at all, and the need for it every minute, not to mention every day, every minute exists in the body, and the body regards the situation as stressful, because a very important, most important... cronnutrient has stopped flowing, it will consume muscle mass , muscle mass

losing is very bad, this is just such a process that i would call pathological, well, in general this is old age, of course, yes, this is old age, this is sarcopine - this is when fat accumulates and muscle mass is lost, nature , so to speak, prepares us for care , that is, our body moves muscle tissue, say, from the legs there from large muscles, into the muscle tissue that is more important to it, this is the heart, no, it not only moves it into the muscles, it of course supports the heart muscle, everything that , although to say what kind of muscle tissue we need it’s not needed, well, we don’t go musculoskeletal , let’s say, yes, okay, in principle you can live, say, with its decrease, but we have a muscle layer in all our vessels, all vessels expand, narrow, it’s vitally important, lungs that are constantly working

, it’s good to pass on such genetics , well, figuratively speaking, so when i explained to this lady that she was saving up fat tissue, because when she wants to eat, and she only has watermelon, she only ate watermelon, and she wasted muscle tissue, because that’s all during this time, cells were built, some were destroyed, hormones were built, and all hormones have protein components, well, practically , other important substances were built, enzymes and so on, the like, so the need

for protein did not stop for a single second, and there was no protein supply, yes, but protein supply there wasn’t, so muscle mass was actively destroyed, moreover, when we change something consciously, we understand that we want it this way, we have some kind of idea or some circumstances, but the body does not perceive it at such a subconscious level the situation as controlled, he simply focuses on what he is receiving, on what... is happening, assessing it based on the fact, and if suddenly the vital macronutrient, protein, stops coming, then this is stress, and where there is stress we have a lot of cortisol , and... where the level of cortisol increases, there we have an increase in fat formation, and with an increased need for cortisol we have abdominal formation, that is, in the stomach, that is , out of some imaginary well-being on the scales, but the weight has decreased more than five kilogram, we got into big troubles,

some can be easily mitigated, and some can lead to such a significant side effect, do you want to ask something, yes, yes, since hers has increased. which is also very bad, of course, that is , it seems to her that everything is fine, and the figure, here it looks like something on land, but in fact the situation has only worsened, so these

mono-diets are not about health at all, for sure the same way when a person, well, starves for a long time, if... therapeutic fasting, we will not touch on it now, but in general, when we are on some kind of, well, a little bit extreme rails, then this is not at all about health, it’s probably more about willpower, about some kind of experimental story, but it has little to do with health, i always say: eat in moderation, varied, move a lot, follow circadian rhythms and you are indestructible, and the most important thing is that you won’t even notice how much weight you have lost in that sense? that you will notice, but over a period of time, relatively speaking, after six months, you will notice that all your clothes are too big for you, yes, yes, and this, by the way, is very a pleasant, reasonable expenditure of the family budget, a change of wardrobe, about fruit matters, it is very important to understand that fruit

is different from fruit, firstly, some fruits contain more fructose, others contain more glucose. and this is very , very important, well, for example, if we eat one apple a day, then this is a complete benefit, if there are no contraindications, and there is some kind of exacerbation of a stomach ulcer, if we eat half a kilogram of apples, then this is worse , especially worse, and not just in terms of the fact that we begin to accumulate extra calories, which means fat will accumulate, we get a large amount of fructose. fruit is fuel, it is the starting material for the synthesis of uric acid, and here it is very important to understand that at some point in humans everything stopped at uric acid, in humans in higher primates, and for everyone else the process goes further, here are scientists for a long time we puzzled over why a person needs a lot

of uric acid, they came to the opinion, well, some scientists came to the opinion, and it also seems to me that this is reasonable, that when... we began to eat salt, when we began to eat more, let's say so, excessively, uric acid began to play the role of such an antioxidant, now everyone is talking about oxidative stress, oxidants, but uric acid in normal quantities is an excellent antioxidant, that is, which helps us maintain the health of blood vessels, the brain, and the whole body in general, but how everything in our body, uric acid is as two-faced as... it becomes a lot, it contributes to a lot of troubles, pressure rises, kidney stones form, for example, and the articular surface is destroyed, that is, we lose our joints, joint mobility, arthritis, arthrosis, and that same gout develop.