allowed himself, of course, something unimaginable , if you go back a little, at one of the receptions in the kremlin the impossible happened, that is, impossible, not practically, theoretically impossible at that time, joseph vesryonovich raised a toast to valery pavlovich chkalov, he said: " i want to drink to the legendary pilot who glorifies our country." suddenly valery pavlovich gets up and says: “wait a minute, ivasiserenovich, i don’t want you to drink to me.” “i think that today all of us, comrades, should drink to comrade stalin. he approaches stalin, takes he pours a glass full, and a full one for himself, and says: “joseph sirovich, let’s drink to the brudershaft.” the kremlin froze, they drank, hugged and kissed. i don’t know, but i think this is the only time someone allowed themselves to kiss stalin like that. i think, that is, i have...

chkalov was urgently called back from vacation to test a new fighter and 180. several reservations should be made here. the fact is that spain was already there, the fact is that there were already messer smith 109 in the sky, and this is a speed of 500, 550, well, under 500 km/h, and we are still and the sixteenth, by the way, we called them these and the sixteenth donkeys, and for some reason the germans called them rats, it’s unknown why, but nevertheless, of course we were losing, losing in speed, in maneuverability and urgently... we needed

a fighter, which could compete with the mesors, i think, if they didn’t understand, then they guessed that difficult times were coming and something had to be done urgently, this same 1880 with the new m-88 engine, they say, during tests, gave a speed of 570 km / h. it really wasn’t this modification, it was third modification. i180s or i-183, but nevertheless, after the death of chkalov, this fighter flew 570 km. among other things , there was one more reason. the fact is that joseph vyaserovich’s birthday was approaching. and of course, everyone really wanted to give the father of the people a gift. the plane was damp, there were quite a lot of deficiencies.

however, well, you also had to know chkalov’s character; on december 15, 1938, he boarded the plane at i180, started the engine, received permission to take off, the air rose, and, on instructions, square, well, as we say , conveyor work means takeoff. first turn, second turn, another turn to land, without removing the landing gear, fly around the airfield at an altitude of 600 m. the first lap was made exactly according to the instructions of 600 m. the weather was clear, but frosty -29°, he rises, the first lap is 600 m, instead of landing, he suddenly gains 2. he leaves for the second circle, that is,

he leaves for the second circle , gaining 2 thousand, there is no explanation for this, but maybe, maybe this is his desire, well, to accomplish. he understood that the car was good, that the car was promising, well, show, prove, now it’s difficult to say, in short, 2000 he is landing, the engine stalls, he tries to land, the engine does not work, then there are several discrepancies, some say that he i saw the boy at... where he was touching , went to the side, crashed into a barn , he was thrown out of the cabin, he lived for another 2 hours, having managed to say, i only have myself to blame, and we lost him, here again there is a layering of all sorts of conspiracy theories stories, on the one hand,

the commission found that the engine on the i-180 could have stalled for two reasons: first, the radiator curtains did not work. and the engine stalled due to hypothermia, this was one of the possible reasons, the second reason was that, it seems, when switching from low gas to high gas, to full throttle, the engine sucked when it tried to go to the side, pushing the handles forward so that - revolutions increased, the engine stalled, it’s not exactly established, nevertheless, a tragedy, here it begins again... a lot of speculation, rumors and so on. the first rumor is that he didn’t just die, but it was intentional catastrophe, they say, he was killed. perhaps this rumor is justified by the fact that some time before this, joseph vesorionovich summoned chkalov and offered to head the nkvd, and

lavrend pavlovich beria was supposed to be his deputy. chkalov refused. the second question is what expressions stalin, as you know, could not be denied. this seemed to give reason to suspect that something dirty was going on here. the second argument is that it seems that lavren tich, bere, wrote a report to stalin that the machine was not ready for flight, that the tests it cannot be carried out, this flight must be banned, but stalin did not react, there was no reaction to the letter, whether it was a letter or not is also unknown, but nevertheless stalin seems to have. reacted, i don’t remember now, either olga valerievna, or valeria valerievna, told me that my mother, that is, chkalov’s wife, chkalov’s widow, olga irazumovna, told them that before his death, chkalov for quite a long

time, went to bed, holding a a loaded revolver on the pillow, i don’t know what he felt, what he suspected, what he... was afraid, nevertheless, all these rumors , the commission did not establish anything , quite a lot were arrested , surprisingly polikarpov was not arrested, although he sat at home for some time and waited for arrest, naturally, and if we add to this those past two sentences of execution, he he understood what could happen , nevertheless they did not touch him, several people were imprisoned, after a while they were rehabilitated, the commission did not ... established any special reasons, except for what i am talking about, that the plane was about to take off not ready, there were a lot of shortcomings, and this led to the tragedy that occurred, i repeat , on december 15, 1938, there was a legend,

and one can say that it would have fought on this in 1938, but a legend tends to live on its own, a legend of humanity , chikalov, leonid yakubovich was with you, everyone wants to fly on the podcast, watch us always on channel 1, we will be glad to see you, and we will continue the conversation about legendary personalities in our podcast, come, watch, listen, we are glad to see you, everything good luck. hello, this is a psychic podcast, in which we continue to deal with the most typical, most painful, most striking requests of our viewers, but today we will experiment with the format and analyze three

quite popular requests with which people come to psychologists, with two psychologists at once, but without heroes, and these two psychologists. different approaches, different concepts are put forward, we will to some extent contrast them and discuss what strategies could be, obviously there is more than one. maybe not even two. today on our podcast known to our viewers artur timofeev, clinical psychologist, candidate of psychological sciences. hello arthur. hello everybody. and daria pankratova, analytical psychologist. today i asked my colleagues to present those areas that are not the only ones for them, but as i understand it, they are one of their favorites. yes, arthur will speak from the perspective of cognitive behavioral therapy. daria. will present to us the paradigm, the concept of jungian analysis. let us then briefly

introduce your direction in a few words. cognitive psychology, she began quite a long time ago, and takes its origins, well, most likely even from the works of pavlov, yes, our well-known, brilliant physiologist, at least he had two directly key discoveries for cognitive psychology. proved the structure of the conditioned reflex, yes, in these ruthless experiments with dogs, remember? not only, but also. by the way, as far as i remember, pavlov was quite humanistic and he treated experiments with dogs rather as a necessary evil. besides this, i would like to say that pavlov made a second very an important thing: and he discovered such a thing as a second signaling system, that is, our... well, for example, if we are talking about experiencing our sensations, and he discovered that due to

the second signaling system one can interact with the first, that is, words influence feelings influence our sensations, anxieties, this feeling, but through words we can influence how a person feels speech, but what comes first? here is the first, for example, himself, on what kind of anxiety he experiences or how it passes, then behavioral therapy, it... developed in the works of a western colleagues, and earlier, behaviorism arose , that is, this is a movement that studies the behavior of not only humans, but also animals, and somewhere in the fifties and sixties of the last century, behaviorism merged with cognitive psychologists, with cognitive models, and began to form some fusion, cognitive behavioral therapy.

but you can influence emotions and you can correct your own behavior, i understand correctly that you work only with consciousness, yes, naturally, in this case the psychologist acts rather, well, for some a guide, or a trainer, if you like, but for the client, and who allows the client to learn some more adaptive behavior strategies, or a more reasonable way of thinking. yes, because some stressful situation occurs, a person may

begin to think that god, what a horror, i can’t handle this, i don’t know what to do, for example, he is afraid to fly, for example, this is yours, your situation is just typical, it seems to me, i mean for psychologists who work in the field, aerophobia is one of the most typical ones, and you simply teach the client not to think about anything, but simply not to be afraid, at the level of some reflexes, at the level of some reactions, partly. yes, rather, transforming those anxious thoughts that visit the client while boarding a plane, during a flight, into thoughts of a healthier, more reasonable nature, and naturally, this reduces anxiety if the client has learned to follow these thoughts and if he has learned to concentrate on them, okay, but now let's see what psychological analysts tell us about this or analytical...

psychotherapeutic model, it takes its origins, in the twenty-second year, jung introduced it, and as a model, after his... such a protracted professional crisis on the one hand, on the other hand a very productive creative period, where he actually he was created, and you mentioned freud, it all started after their breakup in 1914, and he, that is, created his own direction, while still

basing some things, of course, on the concept of psychoanalysis, and analytical psychology - images, in fact, his personality is divided, to put it simply, into three parts, personal, everything that concerns the personality and his consciousness, yes, there will be an ego, a person, well, that’s right, the person is actually depicted above the ego, because a person is like a mask, yes, in fact, from latin, translated from latin, this is a mask, it is a kind of

construct that protects the image of myself, here it seems to me that cbt therapy does not have, and after that there is more collectively unconscious, in fact there are three such parts, and the shadow is a construct in the personality, which, you know, is on the border of the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious, everything that is under it is the same collective unconscious that jung, well, how can i say, discovered, suggested and

worked with it, with this concept, freud worked before... the personal unconscious, so that’s where their breakup happened, and now a man comes to you who didn’t knock on arthur’s door, uh-huh and says: i have to go on a plane tomorrow, i’m afraid i can’t, what will you work with, everything is clear with arthur, he ’ll tell you there statistics, yes he will show there how to breathe, where to look, in general , everything here is quite transparent, but where are you going, in the long term, but i would tell him: what - we need long-term work in order to understand the true unconscious reasons for his fear, here's what, for example, maybe, well, from practice or from christomathy, what might lie unexpected for us ordinary viewers in fear of flying, in aerophobia? a lot of things, but most likely some kind of traumatic experience that

is unconscious, it can be very early, this maybe the person doesn’t remember him. this could be a pre-verbal story, that is, before he even began to speak, and it is impossible to remember this, and it is even possible, it could be a traumatic event that happened in general in the perinatal period, for example, even during pregnancy, yes, when he was in the womb, yes, yes, when, for example, i don’t know, my mother was experiencing some very strong stress, she had experiences in general, well, yes, on the verge of life and death, her feelings, yes, that is, for her it was so, or perhaps highly traumatic childbirth, well, that is, in a deep approach we would look, well, that is , we would diagnose how a person defends himself, yes, what kind of defense is this, and in psychodynamic approaches there is a system of

seven basic defense mechanisms, psychoanalysis is called character, in analytical psychology it is called: complexes, this is like a way to protect yourself from unpleasant experiences , in the case of phobias, well, there is always a question about fear, and such basic fear, this is a certain type, and this character complex with which we would already worked, arthur, well, you don’t go that deep, and you don’t work for 3 years, i don’t know how short-term cognitive therapy is one of... the fastest therapies in terms of implementation. by and large, in many ways now, when we are trying to achieve efficiency in working with clients, we are forced to use synthetic methods, that is, these are some.

address the client’s past, but it is cognitive behavioral therapy, it works according to the classics, it works mainly in the sphere of the present, but still about what thoughts and feelings arise now, and let’s say, yes, we worked on the topic of flights and it disappeared, but the topic of snakes arose, that is, i wasn’t afraid of snakes, you worked with me, that means with aerophobia, i come and say: arthur, and now i am afraid of snakes, after some time, for example, when... the phobia spread from one object to another, but do you know why i am afraid of snakes? but because i was walking, for example, along the path at the dacha and a snake crawled, if we have such a situation, then it

will most likely be local, and i would not considered within the framework of something systemic, that is, aerophobia, which spilled over into a phobia of snakes, and if a person was not afraid before, well, let’s say spiders, and now he suddenly began to be afraid of spiders, after he got over... naturally, and no spider has bitten him in exotic countries, and he hasn’t spat venom, then we say that okay, this is something systemic, there is some kind of fear that flows, and in cognitive behavioral therapy it was would rather not think in a local way, but rather in some general concept about how a person thinks, and about how he perceives as... some kind of threat in his life, and i would, for example, deepen and specify the topic, ask, okay, you fight snakes, and what then, yes, here, what exactly

scares you? premiere, big story, maidan, part two, tomorrow on the first. this is a psychic podcast, and today with our psychologists we are talking about different methods of psychotherapy. well, that is, it is only possible in the attention of the therapist, that is, you need to figure it out, integrate, he called integrating your shadow, that is, your unconscious personal yes

parts, then, for example, you can deepen the client there, if he has a request for this for greater deepening, jung generally called this some kind of spiritual work, he proposed this level and how not... a certain type of spiritual search for the western man , in fact, that western man lacks this, but that’s why he has such an instinct, and he proposed such a model, but he also said that this is not for everyone, that is, the majority are at the shadow level and there are some symbols, of course, we take archetypes in our work, yes, but this is more of an analyst, well, yes, i now understand why, when criticizing analytical trends, opponents say: because it is almost impossible to collect evidence, yes arthur, well, for me, as a cognitive psychologist, archetype is not a very

clear concept, it’s rather vague, abstract, but the word itself, the word concept is understandable to me, and yes, there really are concepts, yes, which have been shown by cross-cultural studies, but they are general, well, for example, the image of a wheel, a concept. wheels, like something round, like a symbol, yes, that’s how it is some symbols, yes, this is really something that is found in all modern cultures, even among the papuans, you know what, let’s move on to life, okay, because it’s very beautiful, very interesting and exciting, we’re talking about the theoretical part, but let's try to apply your approaches, and i would like you to show each of you the best, yes or the same...

40 years old young man, married, good job and nothing makes him happy, or rather, as he says, he stopped making him happy for years like four, he wants to give up everything, he wants somehow put all this on pause, in anesthesia, as he describes his situation, there is disappointment in the fact that there are no children, he and his wife wanted a child. all his friends have children, he does not have a child, in his request he does not directly connect his lack of joy only with the fact that there is no child, he rather describes this as one of the circumstances of his life, which is so joyless, but his situation, his he describes the sensation as a dead end: i walk in circles and i’m at a dead end, it’s annoying that i do the same thing, it’s annoying that i feel like i have to,

that i’m not confident in myself, it’s difficult for me to get close to people with my wife i often feel guilty, yes, that is , what are our key words, what a dead end, i feel guilty, there is no joy in life, as a circumstance, childlessness, request, what do i to do, we are talking about the fact that the feeling of guilt will arise from certain cognitions, for example, there is an area of ​​​​responsibility.

you don’t take it out, for example, your office will take a step back, and then you realize that it’s already very difficult psychologically, you just start to devour yourself with this guilt that you you can’t cope, uh-huh, uh-huh, then a psychologist can really make this situation crystal clear, give a person options, for example, well, that is, he can remain within the framework of this position, but then it will be some kind of conscious sacrifice, and what will he then sacrifice if he he wants to either have to work more, yes, for example, that is , he will have to sacrifice some part of his personal life in order to stay in this position, or maybe you can lead him to the idea that there will be, for example, as an option, that is, to go back, psychologists rather give...

different options look at what is inside a person’s value system, his beliefs, if his beliefs rather say that it is important for him to remain in this position, because it touches on some of his deep things, and the depth, i mean beliefs, is there , for example, a self-esteem level, and maybe even a semantic level, but there, i work because this work is there for me. ah, beyond necessary, significant, i feel that i am in the right place, i feel that, well, for example, i am making the world a better place, being in this work, and if i earn money to support, support my parents or children, this can also be meaningful in life, okay, here you are, your task is to get to the bottom of what is happening with this hero of ours here now, to understand, what simple visual meanings it might have in a month, in

a year. rather, some crystallized ones that are characteristic of him as a person, despite the fact that this will manifest itself in the actual field, that is, here now, these are still some more stable, more crystallized structures that are personal, but tell me some techniques that you will use, well, just so that we can open up your kitchen, cabbage a little, most of the technical ones are verbal techniques, that is... it’s still inside the conversation , for example, homework is very often used in cbt, what kind of homework could this particular client have? for example, start keeping a diary of your own thoughts, not feelings, just thoughts that arise, well, for example, in the workplace , if we are talking about work, as in this conflict zone, for example, what is there, i don’t have time, yes, maybe, or i don’t want to go to the meeting, such thoughts or something, but among these thoughts there will certainly be... those

thoughts that are key, that will help and unravel this tangle by showing exactly what values ​​he has, well, for example, how tired i am, but i can’t give up, it seems that i’m with this... to formulate this thought, if this thought “i don’t have time, then in itself it is not very destructive, a cognitive psychologist will most likely get to the bottom of more for a loser, for example, yes for more generalizing ones, then

we will say, but on what basis did this belief arise, for example, on the basis of the fact that i stopped keeping up, then this is a clear violation of logic, yes it is..." not some kind of dysfunctional the conviction, i have stopped keeping up and i am a loser , but such over-communication is happening, you need to undo this link, firstly, any person can break this link without having time, the fact that he did not have time at work does not automatically make him a loser, the same losers can keep up, but not stop being losers, in that joke, and today i am proud of this, for example, our task is to make his life comfortable, so that he comes to some conclusion for himself, for example, even decides that the work is not worth it, and it’s worth moving to a lower position in order to maintain your own comfort, your own well-being, this can also

be, and this can also be the meaning of life, but to live not driven, in some kind of comfort , for example, because if he is not driven, he is in comfort, then he comes home, not driven, but alive. and he can do more love, more comfort, more warm , pleasant feelings to give to your loved ones, and this is also very important, all this is here now, and naturally, we work within current experiences, in a short time, in a fairly short time, daria, uh-huh, uh-huh, ours the client, let me remind you, yes, feels guilty, seeks the meaning of life without finding it. doesn’t find him, runs in circles, drives himself even more into such an unpleasant state, realizing that he is running in circles, and is burdened by the absence of a child, yeah, well, this is the ideal client of jungian analyst or analytical psychologist, let

me explain why, he is 40 years old, this is a mid-life crisis, jung, among other things, one of his famous ideas is that he divided life into two halves, the first half of life and the second half of life. and to put it simply, he said, well, translate this into simple language, then the first half of life is in order to get confused, the second half of life is in order to unravel, yes, and a person actually stands between, exactly, you know, on the border, that's the first thing you say, dear - this is normal , just like that, plus - this, of course, is such a personal, personal , deep psychological crisis, it is analytical psychology that actually works with this, because jung created his analytical psychology in a personal crisis, when when he ended up somewhere around 40 years old, so well , what would i work with, with his personal crisis, semantic crisis, he has a crisis of meaning, he calls it himself, i would show him, well, i would

demonstrate this idea about the fact that was the first half of life in order to to get confused, now is a great time to unravel, i would show him the perspective, because it is very important for him to show this perspective, he does not see it. and i would also show him through certain interventions that his request is for internal meaning, and he is looking for it for himself, but transfers it to some external objects, and the child, which did not happen, i would pull this meaning from the child, but conditionally and would take the person inside, but would invite him to see it too, of course i would collect it anamnesis, yes, that is, what is his history of early childhood, what happened in his life , what defenses does he have, yes, what actually protects him from such a deep movement towards himself, would make them more flexible, yes in the process, that

is, you could to discover something , relatively speaking, in his early childhood, at the age of three or 5 years, that sprouted, laid sprouts, these grains under the snow of life, yes, which according to... his situation as a whole, what kind of person is he? man... actually deal with his feelings of guilt, what else was there, okay, well, you would find that the roots of his feeling of guilt of today's forty-year-old lie in his early childhood, i don’t know there in relations with his parents, what will you do, that this didn’t happen or something, no, why are we doing this, i agree in this sense , with arthur, that there are certain things that bother him, they also need to be dealt with, guilt, for example, there is lack of self-confidence, in the psychodynamic and approach to the model. i would determine what type of character

or ego defense this is, and from this, from this concept, i already understood what kind of character he has resources, what you can rely on, strengths that can be shown, and what vice versa he has, well, let’s say, weaknesses, yes, what prevents him from moving, what needs to be developed in him, what could be his strength, for example, you said that the ideal client, then you probably have such clients, well, for example, i don’t know, guilt, not self-confident, most likely... no, yes, he defends his boundaries, he

takes too much of himself, yes, we would work with this too, this is a psychic podcast, all episodes look at the website of the first channel, let 's give examples of when you would still send a client to each other, huh, or some situation, or some character, arthur, who would you share or what with daria?

copes with this, but i would rather add that within the framework of cognitive concepts , other approaches also cope with this, for example, imdr - this is also part of the cognitive galaxy, and cognitive therapies, and this is the method that works with phobias, great, yeah , is there such an example, also one of the most common requests, since we are talking about adults , when an adult comes, well , let’s say here, let it be a woman, yeah, and say:

healthy, she has nothing to do with respect, with love, but this is something else, yes, well, in fact, she realized it, but it didn’t happen, this is also an archetypal plot for psychodynamic approaches, you know , i don’t remember who said it, but in general the phrase sounds like this: in order to find yourself, you need find a good, bad mom, good bad dad, find a good one inside yourself bad yourself, then you are something. in general

, to put together this complete picture, and for this, for this, you need to accordingly go to this experience, which, well, did not allow a person to separate, there is something that means going to experience, something yes, something something there happened, but again we are collecting. early childhood, how her relationships were structured later, how they are structured now when we talk to her, how her family was structured in this picture of the family, but what i heard was as if, well, the façade is being maintained, the people there are not very like -they go into feelings, and most likely this is my hypothesis, because you outlined, this is the impossibility of separation, there is a certain ban on aggression, and on the manifestation of anger, and you know how passive it is, here you did

something wrong, here you are - such irritation is background, accordingly, and since a person cannot separate, this is what it means to rebuild his personal.

self-confidence, inability to rely on oneself, inability to think positively to oneself, but rather there will be negative thoughts about the fact that i can’t cope with this life, i’m not worth anything alone, i i don’t know how to live on my own, and so on , that is, if we delved into the cognitive level, we would see some kind of destructive beliefs, well, that’s if it’s a woman, but for a man it happens differently, men can also come beliefs.

that is, that he, that is, you would solve the problem here now so that in a month you would learn how to somehow fix it in the moment, but if there were some reasons from childhood, then this is already a gift, more likely yes, that is, but this is a cognitive approach, rather about another, different a way to think, yeah, breaking the old habit of thinking, i’m simplifying it, yes now, breaking the old habit of thinking and forming other more adaptive habits, surprisingly interesting, friends. fascinating psychology, which is still science and art, and we will try to continue to understand it with you, in this format too, to consider not only different situations and problems, but also different approaches, and as you and i saw that this really is creativity, sometimes it is a conflict.