a flight that did not happen and this disappointment will push her, she tried to raise from her charles, a mid-level physician, a great scientist of medicine, who performed a complex operation, became the hero of the leg, of course, the poor unfortunate coachman, became the hero of the tabloids throughout paris, this neighbor most likely provoked him , and ema supported ema supported. came to a big city, that’s what she wanted, she understood that on her own, i think, she understood that on her own, that she didn’t have her own strength to change the foundations of the system, but i really wanted to, in general, now i think so, that of course flaubert’s novel is an amazing, amazingly beautiful and subtly described clash of the illusion of reality, i agree, the illusion of reality, this deep inner introvert.

illusory, no matter what books and literature emma was brought up on, this picture, yes, that is, when a picture is actually taken as a certain ideal, standard, beautiful life, not an internal core, yes, there is not an internal internal reference, this beautiful, outward, from which very much i want to refuse, say, a simulacrum, yes, something that has no basis in reality, absolutely, and a collision with the reality of life, with the reality of society, this is... constant throughout the novel, such finely accumulating collisions , including unsuccessful ones operation, this is the last such powerful surge, which leads her to why this novel, let’s return to our first question, why this novel and flaubert along with it were so monstrously criticized by french society, and indeed one of the including one global accusation in court about flaubert, about this novel.

after the program, graffiti time is everywhere in sao paulo, it’s true that you can choose any place in the city and draw whatever you want, if you start drawing at some police station, then of course they will fly you in, they won’t jail you, but they will give you a big fine, what kind of men are here in brazil, very attentive and caring, it is clear that sometimes someone’s husband can go to the left, our blood is hot, but we have our own woman, she is always alone. i see that you mostly work here women, we just want the women 's coffee business to develop along with the men's in the same way, brazil, coffee is just bliss, the lives of others, premiere, on sunday on the first, this podcast is a must-read, i am agla nabadnikova, we are discussing the novel by gustoy flaubert, mrs. pavari with the actress alexandra revenko and...

then we move on to more realistic situations when the neighbor rudolph seduces this mrs. bavari, very, i must say, cynically, very banal, he seduces her, in fact, it seems to me that this is also one from the themes of the novel, his magic, that this is such... vulgarity

squared, that is, flaubert himself, he writes a novel, using all the cliches of all novels, their dialogues, they are just disgustingly vulgar, by the way, thank you very much for now touching on this topic of vulgarity in literature , but flabert was so in this sense, i don’t even know how to say, melancholic or hippochondriacal, because for him, the meaning of his prose, in particular in madame bovary, is the image of actual modern society, which is obviously vulgar and disgusting, that there was no other, as it were , terminology or even another...

then he turns each of the characters, well, in particular emma, ​​but with different sides and sides of this coin, the medal of this woman, for example, which, well, for example, in some moment you really support her madly, at some point you think what a stupid, naive girl, at the third moment, hmm, how beautiful she plays, how playful and playful she is, how beautifully she plays with this young leon, with whom i am in a relationship she looks like she's taking a puff. for all my offense, received from the first lover, yes, this skilled heartthrob, on the other hand you think, my god, looking at this character, through a strict prism, wow, what a strong woman like this, actually

resist, take a jump headfirst into this omotyak, into this from the very beginning she goes, that is, as a feeder, but she is desperate, of course , very brave. runs through some fields in the morning, but she draws vital energy from this, she somehow came up with this for herself, this is the philosophy of her life, she sees it as that very real life, its idea that this is the only way a woman should live, well, there is a moment where emma, ​​as it seems to me, has a choice, that is, she is seduced by this rudolph, they live some beautiful story, patterns.

everyone is surprised how charles didn’t see it like that, emma herself wanted, yes, for him to pay attention to her, this illness too, as, perhaps, one of the reasons to pay attention to her, well, well, she survived this illness, perhaps feigned, yes, but nevertheless, she believes in it, here she is, having survived

this, she is embarking on a new romance, that is , she has a real family for whom she can really do something, but she chooses - let's say, to continue to follow this path of conformity with her illusion, this simulacrum of a beautiful life, because we can say that this is the point of choice, we can no longer say about her that she is naive, she did not know that it was so, that this happens, after this story with rudolf, she already understands that everything is not as it should be it seems to her that she has already faced, so to speak, reality, who destroyed her illusions, well, here for me personally it’s all the same...

a knight who must definitely come to her aid to save her from her hated husband, which did not happen with her first lover, or at least get her out of the debt hole, yes , that is, wait for money and... after all, the first person she rushes to to find out about her insane debts, she rushes to her lovers, because she even asks not to tell her husband anything, and he would give the money, he would find it, he would come out from this situation, but it just happened that there weren’t, those external simulacra, yes, which we call with this modern word, they were knights for her, this is the illusion when a collision with an illusion and the breaking of this illusion on the stone of reality is not...

all of her life, we can to say that emma is in this game of hers, yes, well, let’s say , this illusory one, where she plays this heroine of the novel in which she believes, we can say that she is talented, because, for example, when she already meeting leon in rouen at the theater, meeting him, let's say, with after a break of several years, she decides that she makes dates with him.

of course, of course, for returning to religion between betrayals, well, how can it be, how can one describe the threshold so beautifully, why embellish it so much, and then they generally dance there , lifting up their skirts and showing off their red pantaloons, it seems to me that the flauber outraged everyone by that he showed this inner secret life, very clearly, very truthfully, it seems to me that every person ... has some kind of secret life that he does not want to show to others, some kind of shadow

country, everyone has it, since the novel is dedicated to this shadow side, the focus is on it, yes, on this shadow side of emma, ​​it outrages, but in fact it outrages, because everyone has this country, because it is very truthful from the point of view of life, there is simply truth in this, artistic truth, often sometimes he just doesn’t want to... look in the mirror, what flaubert did with this novel, he put in front of the entire french society, catholic, puritan, he put a big, huge mirror he said, it’s not bad, in my opinion, of course, caused a storm of indignation, well, of course, this is such a difficult situation, look at everything, quite directly, this is a podcast and...

who is the middle class or that they are rich, they are poor, it is difficult to understand from our point of view, because it seems , that the doctor seems to think that they have servants, they even have some.

that’s what they called the penultimate, or rather the last, monarch of france, that is, a king for citizens, but the flaberian terminology of the bourgeois, by the way, is very well described in the review, if i may say so, in in a literary essay about this novel

, by nabokov, for flaubert, a bourgeois is a bourgeois, that is, he is a representative of... a purely material society, a consumer society, a consumer society, for which there is only one value, or only significance, the significance of a coin, these are all examples from the work that you and charles’s mother were just talking about, this is such pettiness in the details of the same seller.

in which it is also a separate topic, the theme in general of the fabrics of the novel’s outfits is also the same multi-layering, you said that there are 10 costumes in the play, i have 11, 11 costumes, all with corsets, and a lot with corsets, i have one dress that weighs 20 kg, that’s just the epitome of vulgarity, this is for a funeral father charles, she

comes in the most luxurious dress

that he managed to penetrate into female psychology, we believe emmy and her feelings when we read the novel, it seems to me, when we generally pick up a book, then we are somehow offered circumstances, as they say in our theater, we immerse ourselves in them and we also become part of this story, of course we believe, because we get used to the style of narration, to the language, we ourselves become part... not from the point of view of comparing ourselves with the female psychotype or understanding female psychology, but most likely for him to be a buvari - this

is a kind of collective image in which he , among other things, sees himself as a person who does not recognize his surroundings, well, this mishchansky way of life, he also died in poverty, he also went broke and the point is deep loneliness, it seems to me. what is also important is that it is it’s also such a moment of revolution in literature that flaubert writes from the point of view of a woman, and we see the novel as if through different characters, but flaubert writes all this, so here he is charles, here he is emma, ​​and this is how it goes, there are very interesting and convincing characters , this goma pharmacy, and this leon, they are all different, the coachman, what a gorgeous unfortunate coachman, literally. each character is different, he makes up some kind of separate world, and it’s even surprising that this is a debut novel and i was surprised to learn that this is the first work,

which he wrote, because it really is, as alexander says, a complete sensation, a full-fledged world into which you are immersed, and it contains its own coordinates that you cannot even compare there with your reality, yes, because it a full-fledged reality, it is alternative. with torment, but despite the fact that he was accused of immorality, and of some kind of vulgarity, today. well, today flaubert is a classic of french literature, on a par with balzac, on a par with balzac, yes, absolutely exactly the same subtle player on male and

female emotions, and such a great specialist in the relations between men and women of that era and that time. well, i think this novel will be useful for everyone to read. this was a must-read podcast. i'm glalaina batnikova. today we discussed the novel. the most beautiful actress alexandra revenko, who performed the role of madame bavaria in the theater and still performs it, i perform it, i will perform it, come to the performance. all episodes of the podcast are a must read for you. you can find it on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru.

hello, this is a theater podcast and i and its host anton getman. today we have an unusual release. there are two guests on air with whom we will discuss how there are two key theatrical professions in the theatrical process, in the professional process: director and artist. and we are. a wonderful artist of the same theater, alexandra ursulyak. hello, zhenya, hello, sasha. hello. greetings. the route you took to get to the pushkin theater is surprisingly similar. you finished at different times mkhat studios school. with a difference of 10 years, we ended up at the pushkin theater, where i work. this is today, tell me, everything that happened before the emhat studios school, your dreams of becoming artists, they also coincide, or are they still different stories, we somehow

never discussed this, well, i don’t know, sasha for will say himself, but it’s clear that from childhood i only looked in this direction, i was the same boy who was put on a stool, who, therefore, came up with some kind of role-playing games. for the guests who came, hello, come to our store, he said, i’m there for my mother’s guests and so on, no, it’s clear that i wanted to be an artist, but then everything, starting from entering the studiohad school, i dreamed of the shchukin school, because my idol andrei mironov studied there, well, this i had all these childhood dreams, but i didn’t end up in shchukinskaya, i ended up in amkhad, and this changed my fate, i didn’t end up with tabakov, to whom i applied, but there the cards were turned out differently. i ended up with yuri ivanovich eremin, who directed the pushkin theater, i had never been to the pushkin theater, who is eremin? knew, but nevertheless ended up in the pushkin theater, in general, well, almost 30 years

, practically, yes. well, with a little , how to say, leaving for a short time in vamhad with tabakov for 3 years, you left, yes, well, for four seasons, and somewhere like that, but at the same time, i did not leave the pushkin theater because at the same time, i still staged plays there at the invitation of roman kozyk. but before that, of course, on the one hand , i kept dreaming about the theater and dreaming about acting, but on the other hand, how exactly will this unfold, why will i end up in the theater, why exactly will i be tied to this place? of course not, absolutely, i loved other theaters and went to other theaters. sasha, what about you? and i really, maybe, have a somewhat similar story, but maybe i ’m changing consciously than evgeniy syanovich, because it seems to me that i opened my eyes, i woke up, probably at the age of 16, when i entered , because everything that happened before was some kind of dream, although it also happened, this is also my life, and i, of course, also consist of this, but i had a hard time going through my school years. and this is

generally a large part of a child’s life, here i am i was very happy when i entered the studimhat school and , by the way, it was also a very unexpected card that fell to me, because i have relatives, a huge number of them graduated from the shchukin school, i don’t have anyone who is in this it means they are similar to me, yes, but i never wanted to...

i came to teach and there was just so much warm atmosphere, warm, and i, frankly speaking, chose this business. tell me, yuri khatorevich temerkanov once told me, well, of course, it was a joke, but nevertheless, looking from st. petersburg, he said that i have a feeling that in moscow there is one big symphony orchestra, where the musicians end up, depending on the program and the concert, in one or another theater hall or in one or another concert venue, say,

that's considering today.

directors come to us, they will do it here , i think it’s better to invite us, and let it be in the theater, but on the other hand, i’m always for it, if you’ve earned this right, not by serving in the theater, but just how to say, well, after serving this profession, then go out somewhere, how to say and see what is happening in the world and how to say, somehow go outside, and not just lock yourself in your home,

also makes sense. sasha, when you receive offers to participate in performances of other theaters, not the pushkin theater, but other theaters, some kind of decision-making moment arises, the priority is still the same. native theater and really there for so many years . well, for me, too, it’s very much like, well , it connects me with people, so much has happened , and of course it’s a home, a home that you want to protect, to which you want to bring, to which you want to bring, but sometimes it happens that in order to bring something into the house, you need to go somewhere and take something for yourself, and this is absolutely normal, but... he knows, i always discuss everything with him, that's if i was called there, they called me here, i always consult with him, well, not at the level of whether it’s possible or not, at the level it’s interesting what you would advise, what do you think about this and so on, in any theater, of course, jealousy always arises,

and if i went to the side and put it there and suddenly received a golden mask for this or where i i don’t know, well, or some kind of success at all, they are happy in the theater, but not very much, because how can i say, what if i gained experience? then of course, that’s when a young artist comes, wants to go to the theater and says: well, i’m still here, there and there, and i don’t really understand it, and not because you should only be here, but because then there’s no need start in a repertory theater, then you need to immediately as an individual entrepreneur, and i respect that too, i teach at the moscow art theater school, and a lot, some of my students don’t want to go working in a repertory theater, i understand them, their brains are developed completely differently , that’s also a sign. time, but you started drinking too much recently, do i understand correctly? yes, and i probably can’t yet fully call myself a teacher, but i also wanted to get in touch with this area, and i may not give up yet,

maybe i will continue further, i don’t know how it will work out , but i think this profession is important and interesting, well, tell me, it’s still quite difficult moment. as i understand it, in creative professions in theater universities, but not only in the mkha studio school, it still arises when some time passes, two courses or three courses, and teachers, and the master of the course, yes, in which - the moment he understands that nothing will come of this person, no, i can’t say that i was once very categorical in this sense, but these are my mistakes, how...

you can say that they comes to mind? anything? why are you painfully oppressing me, dad? what kind of dad am i to you, god my, i’m only now beginning to understand what can come out of our ball, and now do we understand what kind of shining nonsense this is? why, am i like people? well, i was married, i don’t care, azina, an innocent girl, it’s good that i woke up, take everything and divide it, i thought, the heart of a dog, the famous film adaptation of the story. mikhail bulgakov on saturday at the first, he is still dancing, dancing. anatoly konstantinovich, give maria to me as wife, we can give it back. it's a good idea to collect a dowry

with your dad. we have embroidered shirts here. so, very beautiful. in the vologda province , an amazing ritual of equipment has been preserved. the bride was placed on a table decorated with a rich tablecloth and a friend. helped her put on her wedding dress, someone came to us, well, who, who is young, bring out our beauty, well, the groom, to be in the wedding, we quarreled, tried each other out, quarreled, believed in each other , let's play the wedding, on sunday on the first . we continue the theater podcast, our guests are evgeny pisarev and alexander rusulyak. your wonderful cabaret project. i read, zhenya, somewhere you told in some in my interview, that you are generally

wary of entering other people's territories, in the sense that you do what you do better, and where you doubt that it will be best, that it will be better, you go there don't risk going in. here’s the story with... the bar, yes, because well, it’s like a material that, in general, has quite a success, and on a worldwide scale, so you , as a person, that there will be comparisons with bob phos, well, everything connected with this , for some reason it’s difficult to say that all this is already in the past, and since now i already have there is no fear, i don’t remember whether there was fear, there was a proposal from evgeniy vitalievich mironov, there was my surprise and some sincere misunderstanding of how it all happened. his cunning, and perhaps very insincere

move at the same time, when i said, well, after bob fos, well, after everything, he says, yes , no one can do this better than you, there is no person who, somehow i believed in myself or pouted or something, and how to say, somehow i thought that they believed in me so much, sometimes the artistic director also needs, how to say, for someone to breathe air into him too, and not just me i told everyone, so this is it, but if some picture had not arisen, if some... decision had not arisen, then of course, one should not enter such territory, but it seemed to me that there was something in me my head connected, it was completely different from bob fosse, and my inner story, it was, how to say, it was different, not even to argue with, but just somehow different, so i was no longer afraid, i had a wonderful team , i had sasha next to me and it seems to me that somehow we were not the same let's do it differently, not like boba fosse, we just did our own performance, it was our own.

i say: i dream that you come to figaro, come to all other performances, don’t come to figaro, he says, well, don’t, because when people were 20 years old, they played in plays, which, strictly speaking , is also in some kind of then to a standard degree, well, of course, of course, and of course even, he says, i’m afraid i won’t like it, but i really want to like it, which means i’m very...

well, it’s like a great story, great material, but to be honest, i always at this moment for some reason never thought about it, but for me the deciding factor is really zhenya, whom i call sanovich, 24 years old, and he says, sanya, such things are needed here, evgeniy sanovich, i’m sure i can, you can, i just ask you, don’t get sick, don’t get sick in may, understand?

listen, well, here’s an amazing thing, some kind of amazing creative trust, i observe, even in the context of our completely unmotivated conversation, despite the fact that outside the perimeter of the theater, not specifically the theater pushkin, and theater in general, there is , it seems to me, a persistent misconception that the director or artistic director and actor are a permanent, latent conflict, somewhere this is the case, well, it’s nearby, it’s all together. and - this doesn’t mean that we can’t, well, thank god, we

usually have the same visions , how to make this scene, how to interpret this role there, and so on, but - i’m quite ready for because i listen to sasha, and trust, this also doesn’t happen right away, but we went through so much together, we studied together, we were together an aspiring director, sasha an aspiring actress. there, yes, we, how can i say , have seen each other a lot in different situations in very different and creative life and - and trust doesn’t just happen for a reason, not that we are like that, i’m terribly trusting of everyone. unexpected, but it seems to me, for a long time and god willing, don’t get sick not only in may, let’s not get sick and be healthy, in principle, i hope we’ll do something else. sash, you work in dramatic performances, you have

musical experience, and of course, you have film experience and tv series, the only thing where you haven’t tried yourself yet is opera, as i understand it, but that’s just me. i believe, because i want to reveal the secret, that when we just started rehearsing the cabaret, there were a couple of arias there that sasha simply couldn’t reach, now that’s all, of the three named movies, drama, musical, is there of these three, there is still one that falls on you as an... actress as a person, better, in the musical you felt organically, yes, but i’ll tell you this, you don’t need everything here to separate this, here it is necessary, on the contrary, to mix everything into one, because for me the most important of the arts is probably the most important

- this is music, well, for me, this is music , i, unfortunately, am not a musician, i, unfortunately, do not have the full ability , yes? but i really love music, and music is a very accessible art, yes, you don’t need anything other than ears when you work in a drama theater, so for me it is very important what kind of music is in the play, and sometimes through this i, as a dramatic artist, can express yourself when you have the opportunity saying something to music is even more opportunities, and singing something along with music is even more opportunities. therefore, i would give everything in gratitude to music. marvelous. marvelous. well, you've been working in opera for 10 years now. tell me, technologically it’s more complicated than in the drama, right for you? i'm a fairly structured person,

so it's not hard for me. i understand that there are directors for whom this will be difficult, but enough is enough, but staging an opera is staging. for example, they are closer, of course, to each other than there is a dramatic performance, according to the methodology, yes, yes, yes, yes, but in dramatic theater, it’s still good when you know, of course, everything, and the scenery is already there, and the costumes are yours, but when the performance is born together with the artists and today this scene can be solved this way, in opera there is no such possibility, in opera, of course, you work with a large group, and you have to come up with the whole performance a year before the start of rehearsal, the problem is that after...