i couldn’t remember my name, but the dictionary of king david lived on my tongue, and then the snow melted, and early spring stood on tiptoe, and enveloped the trees in its green cloak, this is the poem by arseny torkovsky, which captures the unbearable military experience, memory of the war, and... it is very consonant with the lieutenant’s prose, because it was written in the same years when the lieutenant’s prose began to gain strength, and let’s pavel, let’s talk a little more about boris vasiliev, about his fate, about his books , maybe we remember a drama, a play tank crews, on which the film was based, officers, much later, well, boris vasiliev, what can you say about him, after all, in a strange way, i had a little personal history with boris... i didn’t meet, but i went to his

house, he lived in solnechnogorsk, he lived in solnechnogorsk, he and his wife lived in solnechnogorsk, he died immediately after her death, he outlived her there literally 2 months later, it was such a yes, because it was like a marriage made in heaven, of course, sergei alexandrovitov brought me there, the kingdom of heaven is wonderful. human, the organizer, and he was very friendly with vasiliev, and he brought me to this house, they were no longer there, but an ordinary house, so rustic, very, very cozy, that is, it was not a dacha, just a house, this is a house, they lived there, they lived, but they had an apartment in moscow, i know, but they lived there practically all the time, that’s why i have some kind of warm memory of this house, and as for the film officers, there’s a very it’s an interesting moment, and it

traces the history from the civil war before the patriotic war and after the patriotic war, that is, there is a huge historical, historical panorama, and this is very interesting, because the officers are red and white, well, the officers who served in the imperial army before the revolution, yes, they were divided approximately in half, part went to fight in the reds...

yes, a great film, a play, but it didn’t have such a resonance, it was staged, but as far as i know, it didn’t run for long, it ran for a very short time in the theater of the soviet army, it was quickly removed, but in this film there is what a moment, vasiliev wrote the script, it was supposed to be a two-part film, in the first part there was supposed to be a story of the thirties, these two future generals, they actually end up in camps there, then this...

but to me - you know, after yours phrases , it occurred to me that this is such a terrible formula, a formula for the tragedy that befell our country, because it is necessary, there is such a profession, to defend our homeland, i say, and the one who is next to me in the ranks says, suddenly we are defending our homeland, suddenly it turns out that we are different sides, that is, different homeland, no, there is only one homeland, there is only one russia, but we kill, god forbid, each other, a terrible story, well, this is an entry into the torment. as we remember, it is said that yesterday we killed dad, and by the way, it’s like a terrible, terrible tragedy, but still i ask pavel bosinsky as the author of many books about tolstoy, i won’t say a tolstoy scholar, because you are not a tolstoy scholar, you are an understander of tolstoy, yes, not a knower, an understander, here there is still tolstoy’s tradition, of course. it

is in prose about the civil war, it is obvious from the outside, among the lieutenants, yes, of course, well, well, first of all, an appeal to a person, to a person, this... this is prose about people, it is of course about war, but first of all about people, well, like now, too, this is socialism with a human face, yes, yes, that’s why there are its own petya rostov and nikolai rostov, petya rostov, who dies in his enthusiasm, nikolai rostov, who relies on friendship, first of all, with denisov, irin, around the film or before the film, other events somehow concerned you. i mean the publication of a story by boris vasiliev in the youth magazine, and this is also a legendary magazine, youth, but in those childhood years, then my beloved had a performance at taganka, somehow it was known, no, i didn’t read or watch the performance, yeah,

i heard it, because what did i study, i studied there, excerpts, performances, speech scenes, in the morning. in principle, all the girls were approved except for me and olya, that is, rita and zhenya, everyone else seemed to already understand who would be filmed: elena drapeka, ekaterina markova, yes, yes, well, that is, to be honest, rostotsky’s film crew on their table

there were licenses, here, all five, yes, such, such, such age, so older than the artist, younger than the artist and so on, that was it. the main solitaire game that has gone bad, a brilliant photograph, listen, what a wonderful photograph, we are learning just before we go on a trip to ours, we are learning how to wrap party clothes so that they would wrap them now, but easily, i was the one with them, well after all, i am the daughter of a sailor, the granddaughter of partisans, and by the way, look carefully at everyone, they learned from me, tell me, that’s how, well a trivial question, but... it’s still important, i’ve been teaching at the mkhat studios school at the theater institute for many years, almost 20, so i understand how it happens, i see how my students change in the process of working on roles that are already diploma , of course, when there are no longer excerpts, no stage speech, when real

roles come, this is how your communication with rita osyanina went, she has a different experience, yes, she was married, she lost her husband, well, she was still the youngest from girls, yes of course. he said, let's film the scene where rita and zhenya, that means zhenya is saying there, let’s go now, i’ll go and shoot all that, irita should be ordered by fighter kamelkov,

so it was important for him to see me, so decisive, because i was, well, i gave the impression of such a calf, an angel one who doesn’t... well, it happens in different ways, you know, but we love each other, i consider them my sisters, i learn everything about them that can be learned, i think that every actor who plays such a role, well, such a human one, very

significant, very loved by the audience, yes, that’s it still, something remains in him, it can’t be that i’m a hero today, i’m... there’s such and such, even in life they sometimes call me rita, i’m not surprised, i want it too, and you have a profile and gestures such and therefore, well , only one can say. thank you to fate boris lvoevich vasiliev stanislavovich rostotsky, my sisters in the film ozovezdi elements and sergeant major vaskov for the fact that we were born and live on this earth. okay, let's now remember the story of the story, not the film, but the story, because a lot has been written, a lot has been discussed in criticism, myself boris lvovich recalled this about how it was created.

they caught everyone, well, they killed someone, they caught someone, yes, but they weren’t girls, they were n’t girls, and vasiliev kind of started writing this story, but it didn’t work out when he came up with the girls, then he came up with this great, yes, it’s interesting, on the question of the truth about the war, it’s still true, it’s not necessarily a description of what literally happened, the truth is.

affairs, and in general i think, irin, what do you think, because these five, not even women’s, nine and women's destinies at the same time, this is such an encyclopedia of russian life, look, this is deddom's galya quarter, this is the intelligent jewish girl sonya gurvich, this is the powerful peasant liza brichkina, this is rita osyanina, who has already experienced a tragedy, and so on. and this charming zhenya kamelkova is already with her female destiny, yes, perhaps, it is difficult to add anything

to these five types, it was brilliantly invented, of course, of course, of course, different destinies, different destinies, all classes, all social strata, sorry for this is an official word, and lisa, who is in love, because, yes, she is in love, but that’s what she had, that was her need. there are beautiful scenes of sonya reading poetry, yes, it’s amazing, not to mention, i don’t even have the strength

to remember about death, about how girls die and how, uh, but they died, you know, because our first one died sonya, yes, the whole group was crying, although we all understood that this, well, this is a stage, this is a movie, but when we, there was already a stab in the heart,

she found her life in art forever, it is next to us, and today we had a conversation with wonderful interlocutors, this is irina shevchuk, honored artist of russia. federation performer of the role of rita osyanina. thank you very much, irina. i am sure that we will see you again in our podcast, and my other interlocutor, writer, journalist, critic, pavel bosinsky. thank you, pavel, for this conversation. i think that we will have a chance to talk about the war, about literature, about life. and

to you, our dear friends, i say, as always: read with pleasure. and he directly gave away apartments, he wants to buy a tractor, this all golden hands, and then the joy of fatherhood at almost 60 years old, well, sergei, that’s why you need it, i think there are about six of you children, six children, two grandchildren already, four, a child, for me, this is procreation, children extend the life cycle, primarily men. we need a diet-bearing woman, which means she must count on some kind of compensation, there is an apartment for the child, so you are now working as a taxi driver, somewhere in the village, how will you earn money, you haven’t retired yet, i don’t think about retirement, give me a ride too tractor, i believe that you can live on 20,000 rubles in the village, you live with your

ex-wife on the same territory, when you bring this new one, she won’t scald her there, won’t poison her, no laris. of these, he grows pine nuts, yes, i planted a lot, a lot, and you probably have this kind of nature, yes, but for the sake of nature, we don’t dye our hair, we don’t treat with medicine, too, well, something like this , do you go to the police, collect herbs, and drink later?

inna is 31 years old, a cleaner in a store, lives in the village of idon, vladimir region, raises chickens and piglets, works part-time as a milkmaid, is proud the fact that he is developing his business, dreams of going to the sea with his daughter and having another child, admits that he does not leave the house without makeup, inna’s husband was offended by her because she divorced him without waiting for his release from prison, hope that sergei does not have problems with the law. “hello, hello, well, more pies have arrived, simple, bright, sincerely she came and said: i’m from the village, yes, i also brought eggs with me, well, as if as an indicator that these are really fruits from her farm, really, there’s no point for our groom, he

doesn’t have one, but i don’t need it, this is for you, this is the bride?” “well, let him put it on, then we can, no, don’t put it on, he won’t eat, let him even be here.” sprinkle this on them, but it’s good that this is what the pies are with, and that is, you can even have some pies, and for that, without ritually with cherries, sweet, yes, well, i mean, without meat, you won’t be without, no, i don’t put these in my mouth either after the first one, why, well, i haven’t gotten used to it yet.

then they probably got into a fight, like yes, no, we had it there, we went to the store, and there was a man was, they were together, well, they started singing,

another man called him, well, both of us, we had both a friend and my ex-husband there, so he called them to his place, they had a stick for a stick and it seemed to me that it was especially special honestly, it’s not very good , it’s just, well, it hurts a lot, i can do this. say, because it was all before my eyes, you were present too, and why did you go pregnant to men who drink, because i know my husband, i knew, because i knew that he needed to be controlled at this moment, linochka, tell me , please ah it wasn’t scary to live with such a person later, i was very scared, my goodness, i was scared, even at that moment when i came home from work one time, when he raised his hand against me. i later went to work with a very bad bruise, if a man hits me, then that’s it, just leave right away, save the children, because it’s dangerous

for the lives of the children from the wife herself, they put him in prison and they immediately found out who yes, no, well as if not right away, they tried there, as if they were looking, but still, but you didn’t pass it? at first no, i'm they even came to me, just tell me there, no, but you covered it up, but out of fear, well, i was afraid, i was scared, but at the last, but at the last moment, when i was offered a choice, either you will see him, you there will be a meeting with him, and you can talk to him, and i agreed that i would testify against him, how much did they give, did they give him 9 years? but he got out, he served 3 years, 3 years, and during that time you divorced him, that’s right, yes, i divorced, we were in 2017, i

signed with him, in 2022, when my my daughter was 2 years old, i divorced him, i ’m about to cry, what a real, really very difficult situation she is, she’s absolutely sincere and courageous, she went through this situation... and apparently she’s going through it, because since she has these tears, she’s still it hurts, it still hurts a lot inside her, it’s visible, tell me, you’re 31 years old, sitting in front of you is a man who is 27 years older than you, for me it’s hard, hard, well, age yes, because i want it, not me my house, i need a man with hands, i need to raise my house, he speaks it you can plow, believe me?

for me, i value this much, i just value my child, i, when i have a husband, and where can you find a normal man now , come on, when my husband just quarreled with him, i just realized that i can and for me there is nothing so good for you now 30 when will you be fifty dollars ? she can do this. my mother and father worked on the farm all their lives and i don’t have this, i’m a village girl. i don’t have this. doesn’t drink, doesn’t smoke, because he’s not healthy yet, there’s drinking, smoking, that, maybe even wow, where are you now you can find something like this in the village, but i don’t know, you want to hug a young body, young people should

live with young people, the rose offers to be seduced by an apartment, of course, no, no, no, when choosing a life partner you need to pay attention to other points of attention, to the kinship of souls, to that they can go through life together, that she will see him as a reliable shoulder. “if you are already marrying an older man, you must understand that he will turn a blind eye to many things, but you will get this, this, this, this, yes, this is not good, this is immoral, this is in my opinion, but then you will have some kind of compensation in the form of something, but your first child will study in a good school, he will be wealthy, he has a future and so on, when there is nothing, only dreams, aka ,

this is my house, oh, what open spaces, now i’m going to orenburg, the farm, this is our kind of room, well, it’s distorted there, like a room with a dormouse, well, a utility room, yes, very much, and show me your chickens, yes there were , look, rossada, what a nice, neat eggplant. i admire women who not only they live in their own house, but they also run their own farm, you need to know how to do all this, birds, and hens, pigs and cows, i have piglets, this is toshka, oh my beauty, tosha and masya and two little hatches, and you are for meat or for...

well, how much money do they eat ? a person buys food, this is what he needs to earn for food, and there are also chickens over there, oh, and the chickens are so good, they could give the groom less eggs , and then he would sell a dozen on this , and they sell testicles, but do they sell testicles? well, i sell here for 130 rubles, how many dozens, i i can buy from you directly, now and i’ll transfer the money to you in a second, you can buy, let me buy from you, a woman expects from you that you too will invest something, do something, and not come at that age with everything ready , you already know, well, somehow it all seems strange, the house needs to be renovated, dear, it’s like you have chickens, you don’t even have a fence, but why are you getting this from such

a good husband? as he said, living in the village is unrealistic, believe me, i get money, i get money, where to earn money, that’s it tell me, i'll explain it to you.

won’t solve it, i won’t have enough strength, but maybe i have enough from anger or, of course, nature can’t be avoided, the sexiest age is after thirty, of course, you also need a man for pleasure, for sure, otherwise there’s no point in living, you need love, you must love, because if you don’t love, you will turn into an evil grandmother, so i wish you, today healthy men who also suffer alone will look at you, see your house, right, right? do you still want children, well, yes, of course, here i am i want to see the surprise, sergey, i am now in some kind of illusion, here he is in moscow, and he thinks he will come to nature, live, take a wife with a dowry, with a house, with a farm and live happily, no, really, you need to live on earth, work, you need to have a source of income, you need transport, i want to invite you, please,

will you check, perhaps? well, as you say, you want to have a child, you want an animal, lord, these are your favorites right away, will you try one or one with me? no, well, remind me, beloved quack, child, well, you want a small child, so let’s handle it now, of course, you just have your back, let us also see everything that you will do there, so now, now, now, now, wait, so, come on, put, no, a diaper, a diaper, without a diaper, or, but he doesn’t feel discomfort, this is for him, and you will want to support,

put some gauze, i’m telling you, marley, where did we see the gauze just now, are you sure we’ll find some gauze, we’ll find it, what do we mean we’ll find it, wow, here we are, when we haven’t been there all the time, look, he is against diapers, well, everything should be natural, why torture a pig, why, why does he need diapers, no, i won’t let you do that, of course, give me a crutch, bring mine without a diaper, i don’t want to, but i don't want, i want. inna, please tell me, you

didn’t inject them with anything to make them feel this way, well, it’s unnatural for a little piggy to be in a stroller, these are domestic animals, laris, these are mini pigs, they would just react calmly, mom, she said no need, she said why, tell me, here they are, small, small, in short, i will come to you so that boris can be with you, in general, you need to take these pigs, you better raise them, i better raise them, yes,

my little girl, my little girl, yeah , okay, if everyone came out here, yes, yes, okay, you, right, and this, this is a boy, it looks like you, no, this is a girl, oh, let me put on a cap, my dear, yes, yes , don’t be afraid, don’t be afraid, baba rose has come, now we’re here for you, these are little kids too, let them be little pigs, mini pigs, look, everything is around them, oh, this very nice, i have a great one, i raised my granddaughter, tell me, how should i give this carrot? so just like that, let me do it like this , let me go on my own, lady, yes, put a carrot here, well, we don’t really need you here, i realized that you managed without me , girls are girls, come on, we are the

guardianship authorities, we came to see how you are doing here everything is wrong and tales and aunt lo, well , it’s like we’re not allowing you to have a child for now, for now, for now. you see caring in action and this is such a good check actually in general we won’t give roses to the children, yes no no no, what kind of earrings are these, come here to return them sergei, what kind of gauze are you talking about now , is this gauze now? no, take it from me , i just had a case, i was also in the village, well , where i burned down the house and i had to go back by ferry, oh, you can go to your place already, and i was looking for myself and the guys asked who

the owner of the ferry was, he said, here’s a man looking for yourself a village woman for procreation by creating a family, he says how much do you get, i say 20,000, she says this in the diaper only costs 20 thousand, it’s all clear , but you can use gauze, i raised myself, i took care of the children, they have a year and a half, two older sons, they grew up on gauze, there’s nothing so bad, now everyone ’s greedy, there’s money, please buy it, laris , but i respected you even more, it was necessary to rush with...

cosmetics made of resin, a freshener made from pine cones with the aroma of hopelessness, but then 2000 is not needed, oh, but we still have one bride, come in, meet me, dreamer , made me laugh, made me laugh. take joy from my palms

apply it to your heart, smile silently while listening to the music of your soul. hello, sergey, my name is anyuta, i sincerely wish you to find your happiness and meet your love. anna, 40 years old, a teacher in a rural school, lives in the village of krasny partizan, chelyabinsk region, is proud of the fact that she planted 130 oak trees by hand, dreams of seeing the kamchatka volcano, getting an autograph from bruce willis, warns that breakfast, lunch, dinner is a marital duty, her husband will receive it strictly on schedule, even after the divorce anna built illusions about...

beyond all praise, please tell me how it happened that your husband beat you, and even in front of the children? i think they just haven’t taught you how to make the right choice, have you? yes, at first , when we met, he said how good and wonderful he was, that he could build a house with his own hands and nail a shelf, but after we signed, how old were you, and i was 28 then, well, already an adult there was a girl, yes. but they still believed, well, they believed and the words at 28, of course, at 28 i already specifically

wanted to get married, have children, when i met a man, i felt strength in him, but let’s be honest, did you feel strength in him or did you understand that 30 is on the horizon, and this is the only option, and if not now, then when i give birth, and then we’ll see, let’s do that too , but you are giving birth to a child, when did you start? first bells? well, the first bells began when the eldest son was six months old, but how many children are there in total? and at the moment there are three, all from one, right? i kind of think that they liked her, because somehow they were two, somehow they more or less so age appropriate. the first call was when the child was small, what happened? he came late from work at night, he... worked, returned late, at 11:00

pm he entered the bedroom and demanded that the shirt be ironed in the evening, although the child is small, i feed him every hour and a half, and i usually, you why are you falling off your feet and saying nothing in the morning, but now, well , usually in the morning i could iron his shirt and trousers for work, but here he says why it’s not ready and... that’s why at that moment i left him, but he promised for 3 months that he would do this more. it won’t, you were with your mother, yes, yes, and what did your mother say, anka, you know, no one chose for you, you got married, live, you know, your father also raised his hand against me, nothing, so we lived like- then life, or said, no, anh, raised his hand once, that’s it, forget it, close this door, in fact, mom said, and you

made your choice, this is your life, like a spoon full of bread, yes, yes, you know, they say that a woman thinks that a man from... will change, but he does not change, but the man thinks that a woman will not change, but she changes, this is important, an important rule that needs to be remembered, a man does not change, how long did it take for him to return you, after 3 months, after 3 months i returned to him again, they believed, believed, forgave , loved, ah, because, well, love, it’s like that, if it comes to the heart, it doesn’t go anywhere, no, why, you can knock it out with your fists in a fight, and... so you return to him and he changed and a month later i became pregnant again and you tell him our beloved there will be a child, yes, but he didn’t want a second child, he said, go have an abortion , he told me about an abortion, and i just wanted at least two sons, two children, of course, because

you have your own life, you think, well, i’ll get a divorce , but i’ll have another child, but in general it was a childhood dream to be. no, i did it , my dreams were also dreams, but somehow there is still reality, when you are an adult, i told him what i say, if there is already one child, then in fact the second one will get everything from the first one, but nothing new no need to buy, a new stroller, a new crib, everything is already there, everything is already ready, but he says, i won’t feed you, yes, please, and he was worried that it was difficult to raise two, it’s true, a nightmare, he sent me for an abortion, me... goosebumps, some creepy stories, such nice women and have been through so much, i understand that i had a happy family, even if it was 11 years old, but i still yes, i was, i loved and was loved, look, a man has the right, just like a woman, to want children and not to want, it’s another matter that he

the fool didn’t take precautions, you see, he missed this moment, well, as if in marriage, when a woman confronts him with a fact, men don’t always like it. and what did you find fault with? he found fault mainly in everyday life, well, he specifically asked you for dinner, yes, and you said it yourself, put it in and don’t cook it yourself, he got used to the fact that his mother took care of him, until he was 30 he lived with

his mother, with me it also happened that i was pregnant, i was 7 weeks pregnant. well, i succeeded, too, my husband raised his hand, unsuccessfully , i ended up with a frozen pregnancy, for it was weird to me when the children were born, but life became harder, and i found fault with the fact that the water near the sink was not wiped up, so or i found fault with why there were dumplings for dinner and not the first thing cooked, why was the pigsty at home and not cleaned up? why aren’t the dishes washed, washed, and why dumplings instead of lunch? no, i already asked the right question. anh? well, because the child is small, look, you look, you are also like two parallel lines, you had one, destiny and your own plans for life, but he has

completely different plans, you just don’t crossed paths, but for some reason lived together, a third child was born? already after the divorce. and from another man, yeah, but we have a similar story with her, the fact that her husband raised his hand against her more than once, she returned, i also had the same thing, the fact that i returned to my husband also forgave , everything, but then i still have a part in my heart, dignity, the fact that you need to love your self-love too, gone, you are happiness now, you have three children, and because i bought a house last year, moved to live outside the city, they said they wanted to live in

city, and we have a video, let's see what kind of house you bought there, what you have there, where we will work, hello, welcome to my home, hello, oh, how nice, this is a small yard, a bathhouse, a woodshed , glad to see you here. at home, come in, settle down, oh, how clean, we eat here, here we cook food, here we like to relax, relax, read books, swing with our daughter, and the boys come to you, it even spins, they like it, yes, cozy house, so rustic, look, clean, little shed, yes, look, there is everything for life, this is my wall of achievements, this year during winter sailing i brought metals from tyumen, gold

and silver from moscow, and silver and bronze from the purchase of the great neva, i managed to earn money, now we are going medals, medals - these are for winter swimming, we drove up to the settlement, what kind of winter swimming is we drive into the gate. or what, this is swimming in an ice hole at speed, welcome to the estate, this is yours, yes, this is already a hectare, yes, this is a plot, this is an estate, this is a small house, it has no windows, no doors yet, but is waiting for its guests, i recently installed a gazebo, and in order to drink tea there and enjoy the fresh air, oh... well, her house is a little better, of course, than mine, because,

excuse me, mine is already 80 or 90, about 100, about 100-odd years old, they were built up, you say, and there are some neighbors, right there, yes, yes, those are the neighbors, there was a house there, they had a big greenhouse, oh, my god, what a road they have, we have the path is much better, the young forest is growing, but you also have plans to grow something and work, and you also have plans to make your own nursery, and you also have plans neighbor, where are you from, my dear neighbor ? i have a different situation, because sergei, understandably, dreams of life on earth, and i am a muscovite. a family estate is a plot of land of at least

one gar, and indeed everything there is in such harmony, not only the house, the bathhouse, but the garden, a fruit garden with various pears, apples, plums, cherries, various berry bushes and trees, cedars, mighty, larches, pines, and no one says that this is being built right away. of course, this is year after year, you plant trees, shrubs, arrange everything. anna, it seems to me that 18 years is a good age difference between you and sergei, and he is also such a dreamer, he wants to go somewhere, but the only thing is that you already have enough children for you, yes, in fact, uh, i i feel great, and that is, you still want to give birth to a fourth child, it’s god’s will, anechka, you’ve prepared some kind of surprise, but it will show. definitely a surprise for me need to get ready with the groom, please