this is a historical podcast, we continue the conversation about pyotr yakovlevich chadayev. even alexander sergeevich pushkin, who was complacent towards him and very affectionate towards pyotr yakovlevich, spoke out against chiodayev’s position. he wrote about him: he was born by the highest will of heaven in the shackles of royal service, he would have been a brute in rome, a crossroads in athens, but here he is a hussar officer. this was written early in... the message to chaadaev was already quoted, he has more than one message to chaadaev, this is such a part of a humorous epigram, but pushkin in april thirty-six years after the publication of the letter , he writes a critical response to chiodaev, where he analyzes it in sufficient detail, he writes himself that it turned out to be a huge letter, analyzes his point of view, i will not quote this letter in full, although it is very worth reading, because from my point of view alexander sergeevich here from the point of view of historical accuracy, not only from my point of view, was more right, of course, than pyotr yakov. he

writes, as for thoughts, you know that i do not agree with you on everything. no doubts that the schism of the division of churches separated us from the rest of europe, that we did not take part in any of the great events that shook it, but we had our own special destiny. it was russia, this vast space, that was swallowed up by the mongol invasion. the tatars did not dare cross our western borders, leaving us in the rear. they retreated to their deserts, the tatars, i mean, and christian civilization was saved. to achieve this goal we had to lead. a very special existence that has left us christians, however, made us completely alien to the christian world, so that by our martyrdom, the energetic development of catholic europe was freed from any hindrance, that is, pushkin here looks at the role of russia in the pan-european context. you say that the source from which we drew christianity was unclean, and they are talking here about byzantium. pushkin objects: “oh, my friend, wasn’t jesus christ himself born a jew, and wasn’t jerusalem a byword among the nations? isn’t the gospel less amazing from this? among the greeks.” took the gospel and tradition, but the spirit

childish pettiness, but not the spirit of childish pettiness and glory, that is, here too he denies chiodaev the rightness, and he did not limit himself to criticizing chiodaev before peter’s story, and he writes: as for our historical insignificance, i absolutely cannot agree with you , the warriors of oleg and svyatoslav, even appanage strife, is n’t this the life full of ebullient expression, ardent and aimless activity, which is characteristic of the youth of all tatar peoples... the invasion is a sad and great spectacle, an awakening russia, the development of its power, its movement towards unity, towards russian unity, of course, both ivans, the majestic drama that began in uglich, is all this really not history, but just a pale half-forgotten dream, and peter the great, who is one whole history, and catherine ii, who placed russia on the threshold of europe, and alexander, who brought you. i am far from delighted with everything that i see around me, how writers irritate me, as a person with prejudices i am offended, this is speaking about modernity, but i swear on honor. neither

why in the world, i wouldn’t want to change my fatherland to have another history other than the history of our ancestors, as god gave it to us. and the lines are truly brilliant, and here it is ultimately difficult to disagree with pushkin. there is a point of view that what he wrote, these philosophical letters, is called a kind of intellectual provocation. well, in fact, that's probably true. it happened.

by the way, in the era of catherine ii there was already one crazy chaadaev, there was such a major of the semyonovsky regiment, chaadaev, who uh considered the lord god to be the persian shah, the dictator, so he was also in such a court hospital, along with other, outstanding personalities, there was a monk who cut off all sorts of causal places, that’s what. chodaev, the philosopher, yes, from that chadaev they also tried to treat him, cast out demons from him and so on, but the philosophers also suspected him of being a demon, so to speak, and also in their own way tried

to cast these demons out of him. the greatest outrage is among the reading public, among nikolai himself, uvarov, the minister of education, among benkendor was prompted by a phrase, a paragraph that... centuries, as people are raised by years, it can be said about us that we constitute, as it were , an exception among peoples, we belong to those of them that, as it were, are not part of the human race, but they exist only to teach a great lesson to the world, i will quote these words very often in different contexts,

opponents of the bolsheviks, disillusioned with russia because of the october revolution, will call this lesson to the world the october revolution, to quote chiodayev, in their criticism's turn. the tsarist regime will use this phrase in order to strengthen their arguments criticizing the autocracy and so on, a very quotable phrase, but often taken out of context, but the fact is that chiadaev really puts the west, namely europe, at the center of the world, precisely from of this fragment chiodayev will then refuse to make an apology for a madman, which, unfortunately, none of the readers of the philosophical letter, the first philosophical letter published in the telescope magazine, read. it's important here to say that chiadaev’s legacy is not limited to the first philosophical letter at all, they know it primarily, but there were much more of them, there were eight of them, plus there was an apology for a madman and a number of unpublished articles, they very gradually reached the reading public. in the second

letter, for example, chiodaev developed the idea of ​​​​the superiority of catholicism over orthodoxy further; this letter would probably be outraged, perhaps even no less than the first; he builds a philosophy of history, as i already said, completely. religious philosophy history, in one of the letters, in my opinion, uh, in my opinion, in my opinion, in the sixth letter he contrasts aristotle with epicurus, speaking of aristotle as a child of darkness, and epicurus as a materialist, despite the fact that he himself is a religious thinker , chiodae is to a large extent a religious thinker, yes, he elevates the materialist epicurus to the peedistal. only here it is necessary to note that epicureus does not mean epicureanism; epicureus himself has a very relative relationship to epicureanism, since he is the highest.

reading public, only in sixty-second year the first, sixth and eighth philosophical letters were published in french , abroad. let's look, yes, the first philosophical letter, this is our nicholas era, the apology of a madman is the time of nicholas ii, publication, yes, and a complete set of philosophical letters, uh, interestingly, a small nuance, gershenzon, the first biographer of chiodaev, unfamiliar with the majority philosophical letters, tried to predict their content in his book, but was wrong in everything. we continue the russia-west podcast on a swing history, today our topic is the biography and philosophical letters of pyotr yakolevich chiodaev, well, you already mentioned the apology of a madman, this is like a continuation

of a critical, in many ways chadaev’s understanding of his own philosophical letters. yes, it was in many ways reminiscent of this, to some extent , an apology, perhaps, to russia, uh, but no one changed this during the lifetime, so to speak, of chiodaev. i didn’t recognize it, for the first time, it was published, in my opinion, in kazan in the provincial in 1906, that is, after the first russian revolution, which means he wrote in i have long wanted to say this apology for a madman, and i am happy that i now have the opportunity to make this confession, yes, there was an exaggeration in this indictment presented to a great people, all the blame. which ultimately boiled down to the fact that it was abandoned to the extreme edge of all

civilizations of the world; finally, perhaps, it was an exaggeration to be saddened at least for a minute for the fate of the people, from the depths of which came the powerful nature of peter the great, the all-encompassing mind of lomonosov and the graceful geni pushkin. comrade revised his a little looks, that's for sure. it must be said that, by the way, chiodaev is at the end of his life. you know, i hold the view that russia is called upon to undertake an immense intellectual task, its

task is to give, in due time, a solution to all the issues that are arousing disputes in europe, that is, in my opinion, this is exactly the opposite of what was written, so the first philosophical letter, perhaps this, by the way, explains why the first philosophical letter was written, perhaps, perhaps, although i repeat. but here is the thought itself, and the fact that it was so sharply expressed, it led to the fact that

our people, well, thinking people, for the first time they thought about the identity of russia, about its place in the world in general, about its future, about the fate of russia, the future, yes, it was a painful blow, on the other hand , this blow gave an impetus, a huge impetus to the development of ... here are the most different trends in russian social thought, it is interesting that the apology of a madman that you quoted, he is much more nervous, energetic than philosophical letters, in it he, in addition, that he apologizes, yes, he is, for example, there builds, as if responding to pushkin’s criticism, a simple apology for peter i, which many westerners will later do, yes, he writes that russia still first of all belongs to the west, that...

who can see the truth one and a half hundred years in advance ? but chiodai, in his apology, directly wrote about he was also mistaken here, but on the other hand, his tasks. i only said, i only repeat, that it is time to take a clear look at our past and not in order to extract from it old decayed relics, old ideas absorbed by time, old antipathy with which the common sense of our sovereigns and the people themselves has long since ended. but in order to find out how we should relate to our past, that’s actually why he probably

wrote, that’s what i tried to do in the work that remained unfinished, to which the article is so strange, how strange, some kind of, perhaps the self-irony that offended our national vanity was supposed to serve as a vision, without a doubt there was impatience in her expressions, harshness in her thoughts, but the feeling that permeated the entire passage was not at all hostile to the fatherland, it is a deep sense of our infirmities. expressed with pain, with grief, only, that is, it is not that he takes his words back, but he admits that he, one might say, went too far with harshness, of course he went too far. you can call it an explosion, you can call it an intellectual provocation, whatever you want, in this case hercin was right, who, therefore, compared this publication with such a shot in the night, so he wrote that a shot rang out, now the dark night, drowning or something, announced

their death, was it a signal, a call for help, news of... the street, the shot, so to speak, woke up everyone, but at the same time everyone woke up and simply cursed the culprit, so to speak, of the scandal, the noise about butra or that, that he would not be there, that’s all , and then again the man in the street fell asleep safely, and it was necessary to wake up, well, if osip mandurshtam compared the trace left. to talk about the majority, then of course this chaodaev with a trace on the glass that a diamond leaves, such a deep trace, i will cling to mandelstam’s metaphor, mandelstam is a genius poet, in prose this also manifests itself, even in his articles, when with a diamond on glass, i think that few of our spectators and listeners have scratched glass with a diamond, but with iron on glass, yes, but when a diamond

scratches glass, it is also a very unpleasant sensation, yes, it doesn’t just cut it softly like butter, but it doesn’t.

he was obviously wrong, in general we discussed this in some detail today, but on one thing i personally definitely agree with him, he wrote a beautiful thing - love for the fatherland, but there is something even more beautiful - this is love for truth. the most important thing that he did was that with his sharp criticism he really awakened public thought, which we also talked a lot about today, he awakened the discussion of westerners and slavophiles, which continues in different forms, in different guises, today,

which makes different thinkers turn again for irritation. and even if his works leave only irritation, this is already an important factor, and chiodaev will probably remain such an irritating factor in our history, of course, it was historical podcast russia-west on the swing of history, pyotr romanov and sergei solovyov were with you, study history with us, you can watch all episodes of the podcast russia and the west on the swing of history on the website of channel one. feeding the heat of pure passion. the always enthusiastic hero was ready to sacrifice himself, and at the end of the last part the vice was always punished, a wreath worthy of the good was given to the poet's anniversary.

hello, i'm still dmitry bak, we have the next episode of the literary podcast "let them not talk, let them read." we lead different conversations, but only about what is connected with the literature of ancient modern, old and new, classical and the most modern, but there is a type of literature that never gets old, this is children's literature. and today, as always, in the spring, we talk about what we have with ourselves. presents children's literature about old and new authors, our guests today are wonderful people, this is the granddaughter, a classic of children's literature of lev abramovich kosil, olga.

years, the system of soviet book publishing began to take shape, how it was all arranged, this there was a whole industry, a publishing house, authors, artists, professions, how it all functioned, how powerful, diverse, strong it was, then in the twenties, thirties, forties, well, you are absolutely right that it was a powerful industry, with of its birth, the new state, first of all...

a planned economy, yes, that is, you need to calculate how many children of such and such age, such and such, yes, how many books are needed for them, but still how did it work?

read, well, not in every one, of course, but - here then collective farms, and then it was such a popular practice that writers came, writers came in groups, they worked with

children, they read aloud, this is also a practice that appeared from the very beginning, all this smoothly will then move on to the holiday , which we want to talk about, this system was very well-coordinated and worked very clearly, and i believe that for the field of children's literature these were such golden times as... when so many interesting things were created and such personalities created there that we can still be proud of this period. and as for artists, this is also a range of other professions, and not only authors, but a children's book is inseparable from illustration, and therefore, of course, in moscow and leningrad there were their own two unique schools - the school of vladimir lebedev and the school of konoshevich.

rdb, state children's library. and note that kanashevich, and lebedev, and

goldyaev, and tyrsa, very many. others whose names will be mentioned today are very recognizable, not even to specialists, not to those who work in children’s literature, children's illustration, and this is wonderful, because the artist goes his own way, perceiving this text, and, of course, turning his art primarily to the young reader. olga vladimirovna, please tell me, this is what it seems to you, you cannot, of course, remember this, literally, because your grandfather left when... you were still very young, but still, it seems to you, he realized his such, well, official role, because he invented the magazine murzilka, he headed the commission on children's literature in the writers' union already there in the thirties, or after all, it didn’t matter to him, this is an organizational role, such an official role, whether it fits with him or not, it absolutely fits with him, my grandfather was always surrounded by people.

grandfather adored it all, he couldn’t live without it, it’s on the radio, as we see, yes, but look at the expression on his face, as if it was glowing in front of everyone, yes, he adored commentary, of course, of course, and you haven’t forgotten yet, as he commented on football matches, yes, he was a fan, my god, so he was an actor, he was for spartak, of course, and he was friends with everyone spartacists, goalkeeper of the republic, well, yes.

just in case, let us remind you that lekhasil is not only a conduit and shvambrania, but he is the goalkeeper of the republic, this is a truly great book, we are delving into the past, if you allow, about your grandfather’s childhood, of course, you cannot remember, but you know, a lot , i know this for certain, how it all happened and where the two brothers came from - in conduit and shvambrania, how it is all connected with life, what the family was like, it was... the family of a doctor, a very famous obstetrician and gynecologist and teacher, music teachers, of course, they were such a very intelligent family, where there was always music in the house, but in spite of everything the children were punished and the children had detention in the closet, where the new country of schwambrania was actually invented, that is, it still had, it was a game, but a forced game.

this is about what happened in this very house when the kasili or kasel family lived there, as they say in peredelkino, who was there, who do you remember, or just know that they were there, well, either in moscow, or in moscow in kamergersky, yes, it used to be called the art theater passage, the doors were not closed either there or here, students mostly went to the art theater passage in the morning.

everyone came here, it was convenient geographically, and there was such a system of the house, there was a huge oak table from the time of, of course, sobin, which was always... huge and the table was never a second memorial plaque, but it was never cleaned, and of course, yes- yes, yes, and the table was never cleared, there was always food there, because they came in the evening after the performance, it was already late, the house the workers had already been released, they went to bed, but the table was always set with food, there were always very big holidays, new years, there were always three christmas trees in the house, a huge christmas tree in sobenov’s office under the ceiling... there was a christmas tree in the dining room and there was another christmas tree in the nursery, that is, three christmas trees are definitely alive, yes, it was a grammatical apartment, don’t forget, but children, of course, are in charge of everything, yes, but these conversations were about the theater, about art, probably, not only

literature, probably not , no, no, of course, certainly, certainly, because the main thing was the actors who came, nikolaevna androvskaya came, konevsky came, if you remember that, probably right? this is peredelkina, this was already peredelkina, because andronikov lived there, arkady sakovichen loved peredelkina, he always came to his grandfather’s dacha after performances to even relax, i even remember how a room was allocated for him there, he was there

very much. very often, he rested there, and of course i remember, and kostya is already konstantin arkadivichny, he was already friends with my aunt, with irochka, they i had my own company, and i was already friends with my grandson. kolyoshey, that is, this is not only an industry, as angela eduarna and i said, but it is also a corporation of friends, people, many married people from the writing, i don’t remember getting married, but they were friends, well, of course they were friends, we are all still friends , it seems that soon the guard will have to say a word, if we speak here in st. petersburg without preparing, there will be no success, i won nikolai. i changed russia forever. union of salvation, film premiere on russia day on the first. so, we continue our conversation. u today we are releasing a literary podcast,

let them not talk, let them read, about children's literature and we are having a wonderful conversation with the granddaughter of the classic of children's literature, lev abramovich kosil, olga vladimirovna kasil, with the first. deputy director of the russian children's state library, executive director of the association raising readers angela eduardovna lebedeva. well now - our interlocutors on the other side of the screen are probably already accustomed to the fact that in the middle of our podcast we are listening to something, this is a section presenter, and i usually do one of three, or i show the old one. a book, or i’m reading some kind of poem, it’s called russian poetry, or quotes from the classics from prose, well, today we ’ll combine two things at once, firstly, i’ll pick up an old book, very dear to me, this is a collection of

vladislav khodosevich by grain, it is generally accepted that hadasevich has three great books of later years, this is the path of grain, this is the heavy lyre and the european night, this is the book, the first of the three great books. hadasvich, but i picked it up for a reason, because he has a poem that my youngest daughter, whose name is anya, really likes, and the poem is called anyuta, but it is not only for children, because there, out of the blue, from a children’s story, this picture arises, almost religious, philosophical, here, give me this poem. i’ll read: vladislav khadasevich anyute. on the matchbox, look, it’s a glorious sight, a three-masted boat, running without moving, you can’t see it, but it’s true, there’s a crew on it, in

the test hold, in barrels, raisins, cinnamon, rum, and there’s, of course, a brave one on it captain, who has seen many incomprehensible countries, and it is true that there are. a sailor who is a master of singing songs and loves to look at the heavens on a starry night, and i’m in his hand. hand of the lord here on his land , just like that sailor on this ship, now maybe in the aft cabin, through the window, he looks and sees you and me, either the sailor is looking through the tiny window of this picture of a match ship, or the lord looks at... us, or we look at the lord, this is a children's poem that

combines very different motives, with one on the one hand, a captain who has seen many incomprehensible countries, on the other hand, we are all in the hands of the lord, as it is written in wonderful books, well, now let’s return to our wonderful, interesting conversation about children’s literature and continue this one... have you read books, or maybe not, how

did it all happen? but my grandfather was an amazing storyteller, first of all, he told me something all the time, joked and played with me, of course, i’ll be honest, i don’t remember him reading books to me, i think he had there was simply no time, but well , there was a library in the house, and there were books, there were books. well, of course, of course, of course, dad read books to me, of course, and grandfather just played with me, because grandfather was the kindest man in the world, he tried to help me somehow, so he played with me, he changed his tricks, he became bright, he played the piano amazingly, he told endless stories, in his office, it was even better than books, because books are also stories, of course, he was nothing to me. absolutely, as is customary now to say, of course, of course, my dad

raised me, but my grandfather only played with me, and my dad read books, my dad, of course , read books all the time, whether he read his dad’s books or not, he also read his dad’s books, my dad was very strict , my grandfather even allowed me to have a dog, no one ever allowed me to have a dog, so my grandfather allowed me, it’s a mess, i found it in the house and placed it at my grandfather’s dacha, he was the only person who allowed me to do this, it was a stray dog, his name was... his lord, you said he was a celestial being for children, no, he was not a celestial being, he was their friend, a friend, of course, they did not perceive him as non-living beings at all, that’s why the kindest wizard for me was my grandfather, we spent a lot of time together with him, because that my parents worked, they were doctors, they were on duty, yes, and they pushed me at every opportunity, somewhere he took me with pleasure, somehow there was no cult of me, naturally. in the house, on the contrary, there was always a cult of grandfather, yeah, i wasn’t allowed

to make noise until grandfather got up, and she got up always very late, because he went to bed very late, and he could only work in silence, when everyone fell silent, when everyone ran to their rooms, yes, that’s why the writing life, it’s such a night life, well, yes, but what kind of books are they? dad read it, children's books in particular, these are the kind of books, well , it's strange, i read papaks to me from zhelvern, it was my dad's favorite, the author is zhulvern, a wonderful one, dad read to me, of course, such adventure books, such men's books always, of course, of course, everything without a head and so on, of course, because dad doesn't i was guided by the fact that he has a daughter, my father was guided by the fact that he is simply a growing person, and he is growing, and he should be an intelligent person in the future, yes , of course, but that’s why i, of course. grandfather was always closer, and some, maybe not

children's literature, classics, something sounded, well, it was strange, but the traditions of reading, out loud, whether they were alive there or not, this is an association for raising a reader, we have an executive director visiting, you know, i should upset you, but i don’t remember any books out loud from my grandfather, yes, of course, i was taught to read from childhood, of course, i don’t remember that my grandfather forced me, my dad forced me to do everything

except reading, walking, well, cinema, there is no tv, or almost no tv, well, no, there is no tv, in our we watched only football at home, everything, everything, vadim sinyavsky says, we are conducting our report, yes, here is dynamo, we remember this voice of an excellent commentator, in soviet times there was such an active social life for schoolchildren, you will remember, this is timur and his team , all these two we are not mentioned gaidar, we did not mention gaidar. it’s hard to even imagine if they still had some gadgets, but this is unrealistic, because the children were busy all the time, this is the most interesting thought that at that time there would have been no place for gadgets, but there is no time,

waste paper, metal scrap metal, move the old lady across the road, here again this idiom is incomprehensible to a modern schoolchild. scrap metal and waste paper, why exactly scrap metal and waste paper stand side by side, but we understand that yes, our childhood passed like that, companies for collecting unnecessary metal, unnecessary paper, tons and tons of all this was recycled, well, angela eduardovna, after all, if we return to the conversation about the history of children's literature, is it possible to talk about some kind of special place that was occupied by the lion kasil?

i read this in a book by critic igor matishov, an american writes to your grandfather, when i was 8 years old, my father gave me a book by kanduita shvambrani, it was only translated into english in 1935, how interesting, and there was one there.

we understood each other better and there would be less problems, for some reason i remember this letter so much, how relevant everything is now and how universal it is, and that’s unconditional.