one way or another, it will fall away little by little , two or three projects will remain there. well, we continue our conversation with ilya overbukh. it seems to me that there is some guilt here, because if we are talking about the creation of stars, now you have told about everything that is being done, this is the creation of new stars. we had 11 olympic champions in sochi, 10 years ago, would you have? at the only show and where are the 11 olympic champions of sochi in your show? well , it’s always impossible, but you always held on to the champions of 2006 and it’s still mostly your troupe, it doesn’t seem did you think that someone else just needed to earn money, they also wanted to be like navka kostomarov, like domnina shabalin, like yagudin in the end, of course, but you gave work, you’re absolutely right, but here... what history, here you are faced with

a dilemma, uh, these are the names that you said, these people with whom i went there for 10 years, yes, and you understand that we came to a certain story, we won over the audience, we took off as a family , we traveled together on the same buses, slept in sleeping bags, we grew up, then you you understand that new champions appear, such as there in voystanie, and already there is a two-time champion and so on, there are vetch snows, well, such a galaxy, but here it turns out to be a story that you, of course, i wish, and wanted and continue to wish attract here, but then you have to tell everyone, goodbye, because this is not a rubber story, you know, and for - there is a certain market capacity, but it still consists of a commercial component, there is a certain amount of money.

thanks for everything, but now i work for those who sells more, because it is natural that the audience always wants fresh champions, they want, they love those with pleasure, but they buy tickets for those who have won just now, and this is the law, and you say, guys, that’s how it is with me, or let's all go...

there is a biological age at which you sooner or later stop skating in ice shows, and aren't you afraid that when your caste, who you love so much, who you, with whom you slept in these shared bedrooms bags on buses, just at some point everything the rest of the new blood, which you are also talking about, will remain dismantled, you speak golden words, the superstars will all skate with those who took them at the time. travels with them in these sleeping bags, sooner or later, everything somehow ends, passes, there is already a question of honesty, yes, throwing and so on, of course, as a business person, i attract, i honestly don’t suffer from that, what if we now take a recent show there in st. petersburg, both lyoshka yagodin and tanya tatmyanina performed there, but in the same place misha nagalyamov and markratyuk also spoke, there is no such story that this is also the case. the same thing

happens, and that is, you still found this golden one, it seems to me that it was found, and moreover, the guys even somehow want to ride in another show there with lyoshka yagodin in any. case - when there i broke into the show, and at that time there were theaters tatyana taraso, he had already kind of left, then the igor bobrin theater had such programs, well, they seemed like that to us already everything is already some kind of moss for all this we now let's go in, we'll be fresh now, i'll show you what kind of show it should be, it will be dynamic and bright there with all my ideas , now i understand that i'm already somewhere this flies , probably one of the guys will appear now with some other approach that they'll come up with another solution, so far no one has come up with it, while we are all working according to the standard, well, plus or minus the presenters announce the numbers, the numbers are different, a little in one topic in another, averbukh has already come up with everything according to his

tablets, well, yes, we well, not averbukh, averbukh too, we are all followers of others, of course, my whole theatrical movement is to follow from tatyana tarasova, and i always say that this is... exactly when i saw their performance in luzhniki, when i was very young, including even then they were together with igor bobrin, and for me it was right then that it was postponed for me that i had to come to these performances, so we just all, we all continue everything, we all follow each other on the same lines same, in principle, russian cities, for the same reasons but large skating rinks, places of worship, people also come there for competitions, and how to sell the number of tickets and how many do you think? a person in yaroslavl, vladivostok, perm will be able to withstand this, no, how many times a year can he come to an ordinary show, i think that the base is no more than two, i think that there is constant rotation, we are probably a little lucky in terms of

handicap, yes, we’re talking about those notorious ten years, starting somewhere around here, as you correctly said, somewhere around the fourteenth, from 2006 to the fourteenth year there are even eight it turns out. we come to one city no more than once a year, so as not to overfeed, so as not to feel the same, but during this time we have formed a pool of people who, i can’t say that they are fans there, but they are already like some - a reflex, to come, yes, there is a tradition, yes, we are getting old, they are getting old, we are getting old together, these are still moving. as they say, that is, the audience grows old along with you, you know, like now almost everyone who tries, well, tries, tries, wants to get an autograph, they apologize a little, they say that we are taking this for our mother, that is

, we don’t really need you, but your mother loves you so much, she loves your project, so we are taking photographs for our mother, you have realized yourself not only as a director. ice shows and figure skating programs, but also as a director of large public events, and isn’t figure skating already small for you? thank you very much for saying this, because for me this is just a huge part of life, which still passes a little unnoticed, because there is a stamp that you figure skater, even now ilya averbuk is a figure skater, what kind of skater is there already? well, uh, and for me now this is even more than ice, and ice has become a little bit of a hobby, aside, yes, i love it, i’m grateful, but... my main ambitions are connected precisely with these projects that you’re talking about said, such things that are very, very, very emotional, and for me they are very important, and even, probably, this is one of the options, so when a huge

number of different ice projects appeared, i started looking for my exclusivity in such stories, because this is also such a drug, when you have more than a thousand people, well, there... not in subordination, well, in general, they depend, you are on your decisions, and you are a karabas-barabas, he also likes to manage, well , i like the volume, i really love the volume, big volume events, this experience that you get off the ice with staging huge public events helps you win year after year in the russian challenge, because for example, well, not only in the russian challenge put on a brilliant production there, yes, that is, maybe you pick up something there and bring it into your own... thanks to lednikovoy, roughly speaking, i got my hands on this production, because every week you do 10 numbers there, but you skated yourself pale, and what we have in common with you, what i really like about you, when i invited maxim to ride in the ice

age - with a partner, you came, looked , said, well, we’ll definitely win, i’m not so interested, and so it was, there you go, this is cool. in the end this partner won with me star partner and if maybe this was the first time for me, of course i would have agreed, but when i was already a friend of roma kostamarov. lyosha tikhono, many other guys, i already understood that with what eyes they were looking at me during this viewing, i realized that i couldn’t do that. so, returning to linicom, this is a huge school, you get your teeth into it, you guys go through, plus you take so much from the actors who come, they don’t know how to skate, but they know how to think, they offer a lot of ideas, you catch them, you add something you see, you analyze where you missed, where you overextended, where you left. of course, it’s always hard there that you repeat yourself, but in any case, a colossal school, which any director can dream of,

which i received precisely in the ice age project, then, struggling for it, i felt sick, in these numbers - miniatures , the performance started, the lights of the big city, the performances started, where everything began to take shape in such a big story, well, i just wish you some new big performance, because your performances are always special and maybe maybe you have some plans to put on something new interesting, thank you very much, here i have plans, we are currently doing such a big job, i’m afraid to stare, or now we are everywhere and i want, of course, to do a big long-term stationary program in moscow, well, here’s something like this a small hall where people come and it seems to me that there is now such a large one. i won’t name the program, but we are working in this direction, however, i

think that there may be absolutely something that i was talking about, and rotation, and some play for a week, others play for a week, everyone little by little there will be enough space, well, let's go for a ride, i think that on this note we will end our conversation, it was really very interesting, thank you very much for finding time in your busy schedule to come visit us, i am very glad, thank you thank you very much, this... was a free program podcast, my guest was a real figure skating guru and not only ilya overbukh. hello, my name is still dmitry bak, we, as always, have another literary issue right now. podcast, which, as you, of course, remember, called let them not speak, let them read,

today we will talk about an author who was incredibly popular in the first years after the revolution, or one might say in the first two decades, then was semi-banned or completely banned in soviet times, also for several decades, then again was very popular, and this author is celebrating his birthday:

those who had such a difficult fate, as they used to say, if we compare two anniversaries, now it’s 130 years old, well, it ’s also an anniversary, we’ll count it, so if to compare these two dates, what has changed in popularity, in reputation, i’m talking about literary reputation, of course, in the degree of study, but that anniversary was so columbus, yes, now, what’s happening, how are you? you say, i will say that a lot has changed, for example, shortly before

the centenary, in 1990, it was very difficult, that is, it was not easy to publish, compile a two-volume set of his works in a fiction publishing house, and thanks to the efforts of the writer’s widow antonin nikolaevna pirzhkova, this was done, and if in general... based on anniversaries, then every 10 years, naturally, during the period of decades , quite a lot happened, so if...

we had good circulations, and even in 2006 a four-ton collection of works was published , but now i’m talking about mass publications, several three-volume collected works have already been published, well , that’s a lot, several mass editions, i can’t give an exact figure right now, well, about three or four collected works have been published, in this decade we managed release the kunar.

first of all i would say that now the difference in the degree of study and nevertheless , nevertheless, there are many blind spots, well, look , i waited, waited for this answer and i have my own catch, of course, well, like you, i also understand what is happening in the academic environment, a lot of effort is being made, i know that a fundamental four-five-volume work is being done now, and the meeting that you are leading, right?

that when the first posthumous collection was published in 507, that it was generally a colossal event, indeed, then only in the sixty-sixth year they came out, so well, such collections were published during this time, well, the first thing you can say is such a small collection of works in two volumes in

the year ninety, it seems to me that babel is such a great writer, like andrei platonov, that...

he studied at commercial educational institutions three times, yes, at first in nikolaevsky it was correlated with literary, because it was a commercial institute, a school, a school, a comitell school, of course, yes, named.

how did this happen to babel, after all, did one contradict the other or not, what influenced him? i don't think it contradicts if we talk, for example, about a commercial school, let me remind you that alexey remizov also graduated from the moscow commercial school, but probably in that period, that is, not, probably, for sure, in that period there was no professional education for writers, yes, this arose here later, yes. and well , it seems to me that this is how he wrote babel, indeed, he himself, he, he thought of himself

as a writer, probably first from childhood, by the way, he also studied at the law faculty of the psychoneurological institute in petrograd, but did not graduate, and babel he, well me i don’t know, maybe his family prepared him for this, right? he read a lot, as for the odessa commercial school, it gave a very good general education, it was at the odessa commercial school that babel taught and spoke excellent french, and he translated mapasan, he spoke several times at rallies in french in paris . and it was there that he became familiar with the french classics, which had a considerable influence on his prose, that is

, this is not a contradiction, but this is simply a different kind higher education, yes, which is still higher and secondary, yes, if we say, secondary higher, well, pushkin also studied, because the lyceum is a civil service academy, civil servants were trained there, gorchakov, for example, was the future chancellor, yes, and there... to process life experience, to express it,

it was such a means, well, somehow , or these were parallel things, but not every writer is so immersed in precisely, well, personal circumstances, this probably doesn’t happen to everyone, not with everyone, but babel has this... autobiography, it is one of him, well, like the foundations of his method, yes creative, yes, but naturally, we wrote a biography, yes, we wrote a biography, but we wrote a biography of a writer, so naturally, there are significant quotes from his works, it’s impossible, otherwise if only we could get a biography, well, of a writer who is no different from the biography there with... why are we works of fiction, because

not everything is accurately stated there, not everything. second, they used, say, conditionally autobiographical ones, i emphasize that they are but it was written according to the same pattern as conditionally autobiographical stories, because babel invented and rethought a lot there. restarted, we wanted to show that this is how it really was, and this is how he wrote in this or that story, that is , here is something like this, and what did he change, this is the direction, you can understand it , we now, i want to clarify, we are talking about stories about childhood, let’s say, yes, yes, of course, we are talking about stories, well, babel himself, when, yes, came out in the thirty-first year. first in the young guard magazine the story of the awakening, and then in the new world should have come out, yes, stories. in the basement,

he wrote to his mother that, after a long break, i published it again, in the next one, from the same series, yes, there will be a story, which i will then unite under the same general headings of the history of my dovecote, they are all about childhood, but, of course, a lot of lies were made up, as he himself said, yes , in my opinion, in the basement, yes, that he reinforced on... immanuilovich babel, and we are having this conversation with well, we continue to talk about isaac elena iosifovna pogorelskaya, who he is currently working on preparing the collected works of babel in five volumes at the institute of world literature. i'll give you this one.

a classic question for the old time, well , there is a well-known phrase in babbel that gorky sent me to the people, well, this is like an allusion to the ending of the story of bitter childhood, when grandfather kashirin says to his grandson, you’re not a medal around my neck, come on you’re a people person, yes, then ugorkov’s other two stories begin and babel changes a lot of occupations at this time and...

it’s not true, but in unjust times there was steel, there and so on and so forth, the truth came, it was poorly arranged, the steel died, people began to be counted on, so four families were evacuated from the baltic plant, the carriage was put on hold, poorly strengthened or not strengthened at all, and the author of the essay comes, well that is, babel in mertvetskaya, where...

not the whole revolution, maybe this is, who knows, this is not a revolution at all, okay, you need to give birth to children well, and i know this, a real revolution, this is the dialectic, yes, this, well , he expressed his understanding of what the babel of the revolution was in a dialogue between a jewish sage gedali from yes, from that’s excellent, that means. given from the story of the same name by kanoarmeysky, who dreams of a sweet revolution and the hero narrator lyutov, who says that the revolution cannot help but shoot, because it is a revolution, this is where we will do our traditional beat, we just have telepathy with you, lina, because usually, as, of course, our interlocutors remember, i’m in

the middle of a release. either i show you some old book, or i analyze a poem, or i read something from the classics. but today, of course, i decided in advance that i would read a piece from babel, a fragment of the same story. i’m talking to the old man, well, i mean lyutov, the one ilina named, but we’ll argue, closed eyes, the pole closed my eyes, the old man whispers, barely audible, the pole is an evil dog, he takes a jew, pulls out his beard,

oh the dog, here they beat him with an angry dog, this is wonderful, this is a revolution, then the one who beat the pole says to me, give me your gramophone to register, “i love music, lady, i answer, i am the revolution, you don’t know what you love, gidali, i i'll shoot you then you will know this, i can’t help but shoot, because i’m a revolution, it can’t help but shoot, gidali, i say, i’m telling the old man, because it’s a revolution, but the pole shot, my gentle sir, because he’s a counter-revolution, and you you shoot because you are a revolution, and revolution is a pleasure and pleasure does not like orphans." good deeds are done by a good person, a revolution is a good deed by good people, but good people do not kill, which means revolutions are made by evil people, but also by the poles evil people, who will tell gedali where the revolution is and where the counter-revolution is, i

the talmud once taught, i love the commentaries, there are other people who understand, there are zhitomer, not only moymonit, rashe, whom he calls, so we are all learned people. we fall on our faces, a biblical expression, we shout out loud, woe to us, where is the sweet revolution, the old man fell silent, and we saw the first star making its way along the milky way. indeed, it is wrong to ask the question like this, yes, good or bad, there is a logical chain here that indicates that the best can turn into evil, yes. and babel is masterful does. well, we continue to talk about isaac immanuilovich babel, and we are having this conversation with elena iosifovna pogorelskaya, who is now working on preparing

the collected works of babel in five volumes at the institute of world literature. please tell me, babbel is still an inventor, a jerk, well, here’s a person who usually strives. make it unusual, i remember the story in the basement of the death scene of the dutch, dutch-jewish, if you like, philosopher benedict spenoza, well, spenoza came up with a lot, yes, pantheism, i was once very knew this well, natura naturans, natura naturata, creative nature, created nature, this man, immersed in philosophical abstractions, dies, suddenly at the moment of his...

trigubu, semyon trigub tada, as it’s so well said, you need to know life, you need forget life, you need to give birth to it again, give birth to it, yes, absolutely right, something else, that means, in the thirty-seventh year on september 28, at a meeting

with young writers, he says that if i found myself this smart reader, then i will immediately i’m thinking about how i can deceive him, that’s it yes, i guessed it. yes, you guessed it, you understand, in such a paradoxical way, here is babel, yes, inventing this, intertwining what is, well , kind of, well, incompatible. he is very convincing, criticism also wrote about this, or rather criticism already wrote in the twenties, that babel is very convincing, and can i just briefly, you mean you said about the story in the basement about spinoza and rubins, and i have two more examples, kunarmiya, it begins with two geographical substitutions, not even displacements, but substitutions, tamograd, yes, crossing a harness, firstly, there is no harness, novograd lies on the sluch river.

but firstly, it means that the harness, well, here, as if i have my own opinion, so, first i will say about the opinion of other, so to speak, researchers, but along the river, the harness, there , about a month later, things really happened events, yes in the volochy region, but during the soviet-polish war, but they, without the participation of the first cavalry army, means

that he is building a war of the worlds, yes, that is , there is a catholic world, there is a jewish world, there is a soviet world, this , well, such a very generalized picture, yes, so the fact that this is abstracted from reporting, that they took this city, they took that city, this is very important artistically, although i agree with you that this sound shell of the name of the river is also very important, well , anyway, let me ask you a question about the most important thing for me, again, i am a reader,

i study the history of literature, but of a different time, earlier, later, but here i am just a reader, and i always repeat the famous phrase of viktor shklovsky, that babel does not change his voice, he says in the same tone about the stars about bad diseases, there even shklovsky more directly calls these bad diseases, this... what should i call it, this is some kind of strange expressionism, remember the terrible ending of the same story, the crossing of the bruch, where you will find a father better than my father, first - the crossing across the river, where someone drowns and loudly denigrates the virgin mary, and here the sun rolls like a severed head, and then suddenly it turns out that the mistress of the house puts it next to the corpse of her hacked father in the pogrom, right? all this is said, well , somehow with an intonation that is not very easy

to catch, such a vangog or something, yes, it’s like an expression that transforms nature into such twisted lines of force, like this, no, this is a paradox, this is, well, well, i don’t know, like a paradox, can i then quote from shklovsky , who spoke the meaning... well, as it is, the meaning of babel’s technique is that he speaks with one voice about the stars, about the tripel, and that’s exactly it, the fact is that shklovsky, on the one hand, is right.

cycles, cycles, books there, novelistic cycles, he thought, but uh, he actually outlined others, in in particular, the history of the dovecote, yes, he - as it were , formed only two, these are really cavalry and odessa stories, this is their relationship, but how they differ very much, konmiya, it resulted in a book, ultimately, yes, and, konmiya - this...

in the newspaper one-day help justice in parentheses, which for some reason, it is paired with the story of lyubka kazak, but for some reason he did not include it in this series, did not publish it again, the only time in his life, that's how once, yes, that’s just lyubka kazak, then thirty- second year - this is the end of the almshouse. froim grach, unpublished during babel’s lifetime, here’s the last question, i’ll ask you, you just said about the story froim grach, in the nineties, readers got used to the fact that they get acquainted with new texts by babel, never published before, this is what awaits

readers in the near future, maybe new texts, maybe new interpretations, what will be in the collected works, and what will be the fate? yes, it will be, well, maybe the most complete, five volumes, five volumes, but due to the fact that everything known and revealed will be published for today, for today, the epistolary heritage of babel, and let texts be included that never, well, in books.