by the way, he also studied at the law faculty of the psychoneurological institute in petrograd, but did not graduate, and he babel, well, i don’t know, maybe his family prepared him for this, yes, no, his family, his family certainly did not prepare him, his family did not prepare him for this, but mm, you see, he really read a lot, as for the odessa commercial school, it gave a very good general education. and it was at the odessa commercial school that babel taught fluent french, and he translated mapasan, he performed in paris several times at rallies in french, and it was there that he became familiar with the french classics, which had a significant influence on his prose, that is, this is not a contradiction, but this is just a different kind of higher education, right?

i just noticed that in this fundamental biography it is called a biography, by elena pogorelskaya and steve levin, just in case, i make an exact link, you very often, when illustrating a biography, you and the author refer to literary texts, everything - literary texts - that was it a means, well, to somehow process life experience, to express it, or were these

parallel things, but not every writer is so immersed in precisely, well, personal circumstances, this probably doesn’t happen to everyone, not to everyone, but with babel this autobiography, it is one of his, well, such foundations of his method, yes creative, yes, but naturally we wrote a biography, yes we wrote a biography, but we wrote a biography of a writer. and naturally there are significant quotes from his works, otherwise it is impossible, otherwise we would have received a biography, well, a writer who is no different from the biography there, say, his military autobiography, there are letters, and you quote works of fiction, we also quote the autobiography, but it is written according to the same pattern as works of fiction, because not everything is accurately stated there , not everyone. second, why we used,

say, conventionally autobiographical stories, i emphasize that they are conventionally autobiographical stories, because babel invented a lot there, rethought, re-interpreted, we wanted to show that this is how it really was, and this is what he wrote in this or that story, that is, here is something like this, and what did he change, this is the direction in which, you can understand it, we now i want. to be precise, we are talking about stories about childhood, let’s say, yes, of course, we are talking about stories, well, babel himself, when yes, in the thirty-first year , the story awakening was published at the beginning in the magazine young guard, and then in the new world it was supposed to come out , yes, the story is in the basement, he wrote to his mother... what do i mean,

after a long break, here i am again published in the next one from the same series, let there be a story, which i will later combine by... and we are having this conversation with elena iosifovna pogorelskaya, who is now working on preparing the collected works of babel in five volumes at the institute of world literature. i’ll ask you this classic question from the old days. well, babbel’s famous phrase

that gorky sent me to the people, well , this is like an allusion to the ending of the story of bitter childhood, when grandfather kashirin: says to his grandson, you’re not a medal around my neck, go ahead into people, yes, then gorky’s other two stories begin, and babel changes a lot of occupations, at this time, i’ll ask you about this, and how he accepts the revolution, doesn’t accept it, well, how did he accept the revolution in soviet times? applies, yes, of course, we do not live in a time when, on this basis, people were assigned to the right or left, ours or not, well, it’s curious how he feels about this time, which mixed everything up, all classes, led astray, yes , created completely, remember, mandelstam says that people knocked out of the biography, like balls from billiard pockets, i just remember this phrase very once, like babel with

the revolution and with everything that happened in russia, then in the soviet union, you know, a huge distance then in the soviet union, i would probably i made a mistake.

paron, they were poorly strengthened or not strengthened at all, four families were evacuated, they put the carriage on and the author of the essay comes, well, that is, babel, to mertvetskaya, where there are these four families, 25 people, 15 of whom are children, but there is another story, that’s about revolution, there is another aspect, that means, the palace of motherhood, which, by the way, is the only one, that’s where such, well, let’s say, bright from... these are the pictures of petrograd everyday life, which he describes in the other sixteen, that is, essays, and there he writes that shooting each other - this may not be stupid, but this is not the whole revolution, maybe this is not a revolution at all, who knows, this is not a revolution at all, okay, you need to

give birth to children well, and i know this, a real revolution, this is dialectics, but that’s it understanding or something babe. this is where we'll do ours traditional beat, we just have telepathy with you, lina, because usually, as of course, our interlocutors remember, in the middle of an issue i either show some old book, or analyze a poem, or read something

from the classics, but today, of course, i decided in advance that i would read a piece from babel, a fragment of the story of the same gedali, let’s do it. let's read with you: revolution, let's say yes to it, but will we say no to saturday, so the gidalei begins and wraps silk belts around me. my smoky eyes, yes, i shout to revolution, yes, i shout to her, but she is hiding from the guide, sending forward only shooting, the sun does not enter into her closed eyes, i answer, the old man, well, i mean, lyutov , the one ilina named, but we will argue, closed eyes, the pole closed my eyes, the old man whispers, barely audible, the pole, the evil dog, he takes... the jew pulls out his beard, oh the dog, they beat him with the evil dog, this is

wonderful, this is a revolution, then the one who beat the pole, says to me, register your gramophone, gidali, i love music, lady, i answer the revolution, you don’t know what you love, gidali, i will shoot you, then you will know it, i can’t help but shoot, because i’m a revolution, she can’t help but shoot, gidali, i tell the old man, because... that she’s a revolution, but a pole i shot, my gentle sir, because he is a counter-revolution, and you shoot because you are a revolution, and a revolution is pleasure and pleasure does not like orphans in the house, a good person does good things, a revolution is a good thing done by good people, but good people don’t kill, that means the revolution is made by evil people, but the poles are also evil people, who will tell the gedali, where is the revolution, where is the counter-revolution, i once taught the talmud, i love the comments, there

are other understanding people in zhytomyr, not only eymonit, rashe, whom he calls, we are all learned people, we are falling on the face, a biblical expression, we shout out loud, woe to us, where is the sweet revolution, the old man was silent, and we saw the first star making its way along the milky.

changes 37 years before spinoza’s death, nevertheless, in babel’s story he ends up at

the philosopher’s bedside, but you know, babel in the second half of the thirties said: literature consists of three phenomena: firstly, real life, you need to know real life very well, secondly , forget this real life, thirdly...

the army, it begins with two geographical substitutions, not even displacements, but substitutions, crossing, yes, crossing through sbruch, firstly, there is no sbruch, novograd lies on the sluch river, this is one thing, then, supposedly, it means that the convoy is moving along the highway running from brest to warsaw, which

could not be, because it highway far to the west.

shakhlovsky that babel does not change voices, he speaks in the same tone about the stars about bad diseases, there even shklovsky more directly calls these bad diseases, that’s what to call it, this is some kind of strange expressionism, remember the terrible ending of the same story, the crossing of the bruch, where you will find a father better than my father, first crossing the river, where someone is drowning and loudly defaming the mother of god, and... here - the sun rolls like a severed head, and then suddenly it turns out that his mistress of the house puts it next to her corpse hacked father in pogrom, yes, all this is said, well, somehow with an intonation that is not very easy to catch, such a wangok or something, but it’s like

an expression that transforms nature into such... well, in any case, they fooled such people, well, i would say , what should i call it, extravagant, or something, the word is a technique, purely shklovian, but statements, well, i mean something a little different. but as i understand this, it means that babel really has such moments, and you just talked about this, when such details, physiological,

very unattractive, sometimes even shocking and incomprehensible how they combine in a short segment of text with lyrics, even heroic pathos, irony, please tell me, this is how... short stories, i didn’t write novels, i didn’t write novels, they don’t even have notifications, but it’s not a common case, by the way, yes , but babel always strove to enlarge the genre, yes, he thought

in cycles, cycles, there were books, novelistic cycles, he thought, but in fact he outlined others, in particular the history of the dovecote, yes, he sort of formed it. formed it, he built it strictly according to chronology of the first publications, in general , babel also has three texts, only three, yes,

there are others about odessa, three texts with which, well , you can supplement the odessa stories, this is a text from the twenty-first year in a one-day newspaper to the rescue, justice in brackets, which for some reason, he is paired with the story of lyubka cossack, but for some reason he is not in it... they get acquainted with new texts by babbel, never published before, this is what awaits readers in the near future, maybe new texts, maybe new interpretation that

will be in the collected works, and what will be the fate of the reader’s babel, what will change, this is the forecast, it will be possible to give something new in principle, no, what will be new, what do you think, how will the fate of babel develop in the second quarter of the 21st century. i hope that it will develop happily, but we will make efforts towards this, but if we talk about the collected works that are now being prepared, yes, it will be, well, maybe the most complete, five volumes, five volumes, but due to the fact that everything known and discovered on today the epistolary heritage of babel and let them be in...

the main thing is the preparation of these texts, yes, scientific preparation, nakonologiya, commentary and yes, and a new commentary, completely, so to speak, here is kunarmiya, now the first volume is kunarmiya and the kunarmiya diary, now it has already been prepared, which means this volume, and there is a completely new one, there is even a new commentary in comparison with the literary monuments that we showed, and this one. which will

take into account the experience of predecessors and modern ones. it's clear. well, our dear interlocutors, you can be sure that the new five-volume collected works of isaac babel will be interesting and important. and many wonderful discoveries await you. today we talked with the director of the work on the collected works of babbel at the institute of world literature. senior researcher at the institute of world literature of the academy of sciences elena iosifovna pogorelskaya. i thank you, dear elena iosifina, for this wonderful conversation. thank you. i'm sure we'll see you again on our podcast. and to you, our dear friends, i as i always say: read with pleasure.

hello everyone, on the first channel of the podcast everyone wants to fly, i am its host, leonid yakubovich, i have a special feeling today, my guest is a legendary person, and i say this without quotes, because i know the attitude of so many people towards this person , here in the studio, lieutenant general of aviation, hero. and nikolai fetrovich gavrilov. hello. hello. well, i’m glad to see you, let’s not hide it, we’ve known you for almost 30 years. and i have the honor to call you your teacher, because you gave me heaven. what did you finish? i graduated from the tsizrovskaya higher military aviation school of pilots in 1979. and how did a boy from a small chuvash village suddenly end up in a military aviation school? the chuvash people have raised worthy

of their own. also our representative became cosmonaut number three, this is andrian grigorievich nikolaev, and i was just a little boy, as you said, and this message struck all of us when they asked , boy, what will you be when you grow up, everything the boys responded to the astronauts, and the path to space then lay through a flight school, usually a military school, so since childhood i dreamed of going this route along the path of andrian grigorievich nikolaev and chose the school. closer to the chuvash, syzran, the higher military aviation school of pilots, and i applied there, got accepted the first time, yes, wait, well, if the path to astronautics, as i understand it, always lay through aviation, well, how to say, large fighter, but you are a helicopter pilot, well, i didn’t go to helicopter school, i went to military school when i arrived in syzran and saw that instead of fighters there were helicopters flying there.

naturally, i was upset at first, but now i realize that this is god’s command, i was lucky that this is a very wonderful type of aviation and i became a helicopter pilot, you have not been the eighth all your life, i conventionally say that i am a final exam at the syzarinsk higher military aviation i passed school on the mi-8, began serving in the armed forces, and flew from lieutenant to lieutenant general on the mi-8, and retired from civil aviation. i fly on the mi8, there are probably no such people, i was lucky with this helicopter, this is a unique aircraft that will certainly be included in the guinness book, and it has been flying since sixty-one and is now the best helicopter on the globe. did you end up as a lieutenant? naturally, so, of course, you left for the unit, how did you end up in afghanistan? my unit was located in the south of the country, in a mountainous area, and of course, one of the first...

aviation units that were then attracted by the border troops of the kgb and the ussr was the southern mountain aviation unit. and our commander was once the commander of this unit where i ended up as a lieutenant. knowing the level of training and the peculiarities of flying in the mountains, he certainly made the decision to be the first to send representatives of our unit to afghanistan. and in the seventy-ninth year, back in october, in november, even before the entry of the main troops of a limited contingent of two...

the conditions in the current documents, unfortunately, they were generalized, this is wrong, a special case is understandable, but a special condition is high mountain terrain, height above 200 m, can be considered... the mountains begin, and before that these are ramnine conditions, and the part where we were located, flew to altitudes of up to four to 4,500 m with landings, the ceiling, the static ceiling of the mi-8 helicopter is, then it was just 4 km, 4,000 m, then they allowed us to fly from 4,500 to 6 km, this is the afghan experience, our helicopter the mi-8, great... it handles such conditions and still performs these flights better than anyone else in the world in hot and high mountain conditions . until recently, the very participation of the border

troops of the kgbsr in the afghan events was not advertised, but you already understood that in october , in november 79, partial forces with... a limited contingent of soviet troops in afghanistan in afghanistan, they were preparing the gbsr, they already obviously knew that the deployment itself was to be introduced, security on the border and, of course, in the strip from the state border 100 km deep into afghanistan, lay entirely with the border troops of the cbsr. so, how did the lieutenant feel when he found himself in combat conditions? i am now interested in the psychology of a young man. found myself in a critical situation, the situation is not critical, i still graduated from military school, of course, military operations is the main activity of any officer, so i thought, wow, i graduated from a special educational institution and thought that

military affairs would never be useful again, because the power of the soviet union was incredible, there was the warsaw pact, no one thought about war, so in 1979, due to numerous requests... a combat mission with the actual use of weapons against ground targets, indeed, it was a serious case, i was given the task of striking at the bandits who, in principle, squeezed our outpost in the reeds.

when approaching the combat area, our troops identified themselves with a missile, the radius said that the enemy was literally 100 m from us, firing with unguided missiles, you understand, it is not possible to provide such accuracy plus or minus 100 m. my task was not only to strike a blow to the enemy, manpower, but also not to hit your own troops. therefore, i remembered this first combat flight very well, but most of all i remembered how not to hit my own people, because if you just shoot far away, there will be no there will be no effect, we must shoot accurately in order to protect our troops and effectively use weapons, therefore. i took aim, approached the minimum allowable distance, how much? well, the minimum permissible distance is 600-700 m, because the mechanism for long-range launching of unguided missiles is triggered at 400-450 m, reaching,

yes, at an extremely low altitude, and we had to open fire, in general, the task was completed and air support was effective... it has been said that the most vulnerable stage of a combat flight is exiting the attack, so at this moment , whether the enemy will hit you in the side or in the back depends on the combat complexity of the crew, we fly in pairs, if you are the leader, then the wingman covers the leader’s retreat so that he is not beaten at the exit from the attack, there is no one to cover the wingman himself, so we came up with such a battle formation as a carousel, even... headlights and helicopters, you can create such conditions that the enemy cannot raise his head, covering each other, in this way you can effectively leave the battlefield. and your second, if i’m not mistaken, was nedviga, right? yes, yuri dmirievich nedviga is a very good pilot, my comrade in arms,

thank god that he is alive and well, now he leads a veterans’ organization and is also a hero of the russian federation. have you ever met a boss? border troops at that time, i never met the chiefs of the border troops, i just saw his photograph, why am i asking about this, you and i... you are to a greater extent, i am less familiar with at least four commanders of the border troops, i was always amazed by the highest intelligence of these people, amazing professionalism, well, starting there you can list everyone: totsky, bordyuzha, vladimir yegorevich pronichev, who recently retired, an amazing , perfect person, you have known him for many years, you worked with him, what kind of people they are, the border troops really are. with a special type of troops, these are the political troops

of our state, the most highly professional military personnel from different types and branches of the armed forces are selected there, and i agree with you that the leaders of the border troops, as a rule, were the best specialists, uh, at that time the border guards the troops were led by sailors, he was a participant in the great patriotic war, he carried out special missions, and had many military awards. and also subsequently carried out a number of special tasks abroad on behalf of our then powerful state; i have to admit that i didn’t see him as a lieutenant, but 5 years after college i became a squadron commander with the rank of captain and i had a great honor receive the order of lenin upon arriving in moscow, the order of lenin was presented to me by sailors, i can ask a question, why were you awarded the order of lenin? or serious an operation involving a large number

of forces, up to 30 helicopters from our aviation took part, this was in the zardevsky gorge in the highlands of afghanistan, on the second day of the operation, when the enemy was squeezed into the mountains and he was forced to fire back, direct contact with the enemy took place, because bandits, as a rule, have a habit of leaving at night without a trace and disappearing. here we pinned them down and they began to shoot back , unfortunately they managed to hit our helicopter, the helicopter was piloted by the regimental chief of staff, lieutenant colonel kornev, in the blue sky, like this uh, i also remember now, a vertical black column of smoke is rising, and i feel that this is not the explosion of a mine or a shell, but this is a serious fire, obviously this is a helicopter, it so happened that... the helicopter was shot down, the cockpit of the helicopter was torn off, she flew into the gorge, from

the torn off cabin, the crew was thrown onto the slopes, and he remained alive, but this was in the mountains , surrounded by enemies, all the other helicopters, as luck would have it, ran out of fuel, and i was performing another task in a parallel... gorge, seeing this situation, i unloaded all my ammunition that i was transporting to the new platform, and flew up to the scene of the tragedy. having examined the situation, i realized that the helicopter was on fire, mines were exploding, fragments were flying, and the crew was running down the gorge, and they were surrounded by bandits. of course, i came in from below so as not to get hit by fragments of the mines exploding in the helicopter towards me. crew high in the mountains, i managed to sit down on one wheel

to make it easier for the crew to run up, at what altitude? from top to bottom, at an altitude of about 3,500 m. and indeed, the wounded commander was carried by crew members, and i took all three crew members and carried out the flight at field base, giving the wounded commander an injection of promidol along the way, so that... the field shock would not play its cruel joke. were you shot at while leaving? there was not a single hit on my helicopter. you showed me a small piece of control footage of how you and your partner hit an airfield at night in the mountains. they got a hero for this. yes, the task was set to apply. a strike on terrorists high in the mountains,

indeed the mountains were quite high and the area was known to us, but we won’t talk in which country this is, it is outside our state, but nevertheless the task was completed, at night in the mountains without communication, without light, by guessing by touch, fortunately, already at that time our aviation was specially prepared. helicopters, not mass-produced, but experienced helicopters that could fly in the mountains without communication, without lighting, using night vision goggles, that is, we flew lower. lower echelon at an extremely low altitude, using night vision goggles, literally 10-15 m from obstacles, that is, this flight can be compared with flying like during the day, for us this is a flight that allows us to control the underlying surface, our enemy was not allowed

to fire accurately at us, so we had a great advantage, this was the first time in our country that night vision goggles were tested in combat... conditions , of course, the mountains complicate the flight with night vision goggles, but nevertheless, knowing this area well enough, we prepared using the map, oriented ourselves, we managed to complete a filigree flight, pass gorges at a great distance to reach the goal, complete the whole the task that the leadership set for us, we inflicted very significant damage on the enemy, but we ourselves did not... any damage, this is the effectiveness of special operations, daring, daring and unexpected for the enemy. well, okay, we met in chechnya, yes, the time difference was quite significant, does a military pilot’s feeling from combat operations differ there and there, or is it

about the same thing? having extensive experience of combat operations in afghan conditions, in the afghan mountains, already... the formation of character happened and for me, the conduct of hostilities on its territory in the chechen republic in part of the russian federation from the point of view of the situation and tactics did not have a significant role, but morally it was harder, because we were fighting a civil war within our state, so we would like to quickly end this misunderstanding , and this misunderstanding, as you know, brought the mercenaries out from abroad, so our task was to drive the mercenaries out from abroad, which we managed to do. okay, let's talk about this: every person, i think, is happy the fact that there is someone waiting for you at home, of course, you got married, when at what age? i got married on august 8, 2008, no,

well, well, you have lived in istania for many years, yes, yes, everywhere, as i know, wherever... yes, this is the person who knows how to wait, of course, i am lucky, and the life of a military man, of course, and probably any other person, depends on his military girlfriend, on his family, and a man always has peace of mind, and a man is able to use his maximum potential for the sake of his homeland, for the sake of his profession. when everything is in the rear successfully, calmly, then a person feels comfortable, and his effectiveness is 100 times better, when a person doubts or needs something, i was lucky from this point of view, and i

directed all my knowledge, skills and abilities only to perform a special task , because he was confident in his rear. you worked with special forces many times,