dmitry, i’ll tell you this, that, for example, the ministry of defense, where i worked, we never had any illusions about the attitude of the united states towards russia, all this talk about how there were kozarev scoopades, that we were going to enter in nato, even the fact that president putin said that he allegedly considered such an idea, but i’ll tell you, not a single serious one.

no instructions were received after these conversations, to work on something, as usual, to formulate specific proposals, no, we all understood that nato - this is, so to speak, well, a situational partner now, but it all ended in 1999, when the bombing of yugoslavia began, after that there were no more illusions, i remember how we negotiated, yevgeny maksimovich privakov negotiated the founding act.

hello, this is a podcast of witnesses from einstein and its host is film historians natalya ryabchikova, stanislav didinsky. in our podcast we talk about who created the famous ones and how. beloved, little-known,

half-forgotten or completely unknown and completely forgotten soviet films, how to watch them now, how to find new meanings in them and how to get even more pleasure from them. today our podcast is dedicated to the centenary of one of the most famous women directors of the soviet union, tatyana leoznova. one of the most famous in quite a small number, in fact, women, from whom many generations of soviet viewers enjoy, here. in this regard, she exceeded the task at most more than many male directors; this , of course, is the seventh moment of spring, which probably every person in this country has seen a series about stirlitz, and if you haven’t seen it, then you’ve heard it, of course, three poplars on ivy, probably just an example of soviet melodrama with the canonical images of efremov, who is sitting in a taxi, walking around him rain, he looks thoughtfully at the camera or somewhere to the side, well...

with masculine words, so gerber said that the word director in russian does not

have a feminine gender, many women of soviet cinema could probably agree with her , female directors of soviet cinema, and kira muratova, and larisa shepitka and of course tatyana lioznova. which is probably the color of this post-war cinema, one can hardly call it female, but they weren’t the first? they were, of course, not the first, but indeed they are the most noticeable for us, we know as historians that even before the revolution there were already female directors in russian cinema, and of course they played in a male field and could not call themselves in another way, they deserved this title, the director, in the twenties, quite there are many women with him

as a second director, or vera stroeva, who was often a co-director of her husband, grigory roshal, although she had independent works, but in this sense lioznova is different, because not only did she not work with her husband on the set, but in in principle, she was on her own all her life, and even she was reproached for this, and in some years the gorky studios hinted that maybe somehow it was necessary, maybe, to be more like a standard soviet woman with... and also family, and career, yes, career and family, but she had a family, this mother, whom she took to filming, whom she brought to artistic councils, she always consulted with her on how the film looked, and this was her test viewer, it’s quite interesting, it’s rarely really about soviet cinema, well, it’s necessary

to say that lioznova’s parents did not prepare her for a film career at all and in general there was not even a hint of this, they probably said that she needed to choose a reliable profession that would feed her all her life, and indeed at first such ... a profession, an attempt she was, she i didn’t study for so long, a semester, it seems, yes, yes, it seems, a semester, in an elevator school, yes, yes, yes, then it will delve a little into her biography, filmography, even so, the biography of the director and filmography, in which -at that moment she decided that her path was cinema, well, she remembered about this by some accident, that one of her friends was going to enroll, she also went, these are the forties, this feeling that something can be done somehow... then redo life, start anew, although... it was just beginning for her, but her work, studying at vgik, in fact, it wasn’t that simple, because at some point she was listed there, unsuitable, well, at the very beginning this happens when students start studying, and even after the first semester the master tells them they won’t go, well, that’s what happened with

rezanov, when he studied with kozents, for example, indeed, they generally told him that he was too young, but leoznova, according to her , decided that she would fight, that she would not leave it like that, she rode the tram across all of moscow, took . washes it and says that she wrote it down, she sketched, as if in words , the types she met, and in this tram, and then she gathered those who were expelled with her, based on her notes, she staged such sketches, they were accepted back by everyone, she said that it was like this for her the first lesson is that a director is the person on whom others depend, this feeling, this responsibility, she always carried with her, well, at the beginning of lioznova’s career it seems that everything depends not on herself, but on her.. . with equal success and the surname of sergei izenshtein and lev kuleshov, however

less was later named after gerasimov, precisely thanks to the efforts and merits of his students, because he created one of the most powerful directing and acting. workshops, such an amazing hybrid, all the students, in fact, this tradition existed both before and after, he attracted to work on his such, well, opus magnum, right? the film the young guard, yes, after all , this has never happened on such a scale, it seems to me, neither before nor after, indeed, the young guard is something that began as a performance, then, what began as some individual episodes was performed as a performance, not only in ovgik, and then was transferred to the screen, this is really the work of an entire creative team, and there lioznova played, in general, not the least role, because she staged also separate from this idea is a scene with carmen’s dance, where the actual scene is.

named after gorky, which was located right next to vgik, in the next wing, in fact literally then, yes, even in the next wing of the same building, and then it’s here she is fired from there because there is a struggle with cosmopolitans, and for her it’s as if at the very beginning of her career this career ends, and here at some point sergei gerasimov, who worked at the same studio, appears again, he and takes her to china to make a picture of liberated china. he puts on a play with her in the theater, again a chinese one, a gray-haired girl, and so little by little, little by little

, the beginning of the fifties comes, the studio takes her back, but nevertheless , about 10 years pass from the date of graduation, until she is not directing her first feature film as an independent director. well, let’s just remind you that in one of the gothic eras of small films, the so-called late forties, early fifties, only nine films were shot, it seems. she was told about an english pilot who, during the great patriotic war

, was shot down over the occupied territories of the soviet union, he ends up in a village where a wounded soviet teacher nurses him, naturally in the film she is played by tamara makarova, and based on this story about the english, who remembered the soviet people who saved him and then returned as a tourist, visited this village and seemed to speak clearly about friendship between peoples and so on and... about the memory of the heart, gerasimov wrote the script, and lezna actually directed it, this is it was her first film "memory of the heart". it’s interesting that such thaw filming methods are very visible there; documentary footage is used there. london, newsreel, they use real englishmen, real germans who play englishmen and germans, although the main role is an englishman andrei popov is playing, but nevertheless , quite a lot of journalists, englishmen, americans are playing there, who at that moment... were in moscow, even sometimes someone by chance, for a short while, but she placed them all in this english scene, and

a very funny character appears there, the sister of the main character’s wife, we imagine in a blurred text, like the director of a cinematheque, who has watched so many films that she combined sentimentality with ironic generalizations, and then she gives such a speech about how much she watches different films and... some fashionable swedish films with violence and neorealism with its kind of unwashed linen, and some boring soviet films, and then there was one film she didn’t particularly like, this is what we are now they would call it metacinema, or cinema, which suddenly remembers that there is a cinema, not that it is typical for the religious, but it seems to me that then these numerous jokes about being stupid, they are also from there, that we are a little bit playing in the cinema, so you said it, you mentioned the sunset voice that says something. yes, this will later become some kind of defining, maybe even one of the important features

of lioznov’s films, the voice-over of some person who tells what is happening in evdakia in her film this will happen, of course it will be in the seventeenth retreat spring, where kapellyan’s voice, as it were , will eventually become that same anecdotal trope that is used in any joke in order to, well, how to create this technique, and the shtirlet walked along the corridor and further...

reasonable, what 100 rubles, come on, and i’ll take it, won’t it be seen there, why are you getting 100 rubles, she’s so innocent, look at her , give her 200 rubles, or else give her your son, listen, but you planted him, abandoned him, don’t lie, you stole him in court i’ll show you that there is

a metric in this film, secondly, there are characters who, well, in such a very unrealistic cry, reveal the theme, the theme, well, orphanhood in the soviet union after the war, themes that, in general, well, would be disastrous for the country. levoznova said that it is difficult for her to choose subjects for her films, she always approached this very responsibly, always remembered that she was given quite significant funds to make films. she cannot do it only for her own pleasure, that many people should see it, that it should be interesting to many, that it should resonate with many, and at the same time she said that to one degree or another all her paintings have autobiographical elements, here maybe her father really died in 1941, she grew up with her mother, it’s difficult

growing up, this story of a family according to the script of the faith in a new way, probably was this too... close, yes, but nevertheless, then in the sixties the plots were still different, or rather, they only appeared in the oteplopino films, new, relevant plot-social themes , vera panova is one of the main suppliers of such topics, because then in a few years yulia fait will shoot in nolefilm a very scandalous film, a boy and a girl, about the romance of two teenagers who are still recent schoolchildren, students in a holiday romance, he is not a student yet... .

there were two more films that also go in line with the otepelnoye cinema, the story with the aviation institute returns, because if in the memory of the heart the main character was a pilot, but we just started, actually from the cockpit of the plane, and then we were only told that he pilot, pilot, pilot, pilot, became more interested in the topic of creating the first jet fighter in the soviet union during the war and... began to develop this topic, made a film, which was called just before its release: they conquer the sky, the whole studio came up with it the name, initially it was something like the story of one aircraft, that is, based on real events, where the consultants were real engineers, and aircraft designers and pilots who actually tested all these aircraft. mark gollay, the famous pilot

was one of the prototypes, who by the way did not like this idea, why is it now about us. real people will make movies with our names, where some will be true, some will be fiction, and he very much protested against the fact that pilots on the screen wore real names, so they were all changed there, it was somehow purposefully done, but it took some time and some persuasion, well, in general, the figure of a pilot, like the figure of an astronaut, in these years has a well-known areola, remember, that a little later larisa shipitka makes a film called wings, on the same material on a completely different topic, a completely different topic, but the topic itself. flight, yes, astronautics, stars, sky, pilots who are about to become cosmonauts in 5 minutes, it’s all there, yes, indeed, among the consultants there were people who were connected with bekanur already at that moment, and for her, as she said, it was interesting to immerse herself in some new world, to reveal a new profession on the screen, to learn something new for herself, and she did this at

every film, she said that it is necessary not to study life for the director, not to immerse yourself in it, but to live it, and this requires much more, in fact, getting into the material, maybe that’s why during her rather long career, it turns out 30 years, yes, from the first film... on my own staged to the last, she has only nine films, well, that is, more than three years, but it passes, but if you count each episode of 17 instant spring as a separate film, then she has a rich filmography, but milestones in it appear once every few years, it turns out , after they conquer the sky, she also shot another film in a slightly documentary style , also based on the script by vera panova, which is called early in the morning. in the soviet union it was considered non-existent, it was some kind of bourgeois genre, it was a family drama, but here was a family drama, or rather the story

of a brother and sister growing up, orphans, again, yes, the theme of orphanhood, very much in the spirit of the gorky studio films of the sixties, the house in which i live, and something like that , family, simple and at the same time not entirely expected. unexpectedly, then a new idea comes, and it comes from a song, an overheard song, in fact, flights, pilots, the sky, alexandra pakhmutova writes a song tenderness, liozny comes up with an idea, at least that’s how it is later told that this is what- then around this you need to do, and only then she comes across a script by alexander borshchugovsky, three poplars on a shabolovka, she wants, again, she thinks that she should direct... nonna murdyakova in this role, it’s difficult to find an actress, but when they asked her, why didn’t you murdyakov was removed? she thought that i would now record how nonna sings the song tenderness, this scene came to her mind, yes, the heroine sings this song, she sings like this in

a folk way, like a woman’s, and she said, i ’ll record it and i’ll find nonna some actress who can sing to nonna when she they asked, why couldn’t you call mordyukova, she answered, well, what would it be like for her to take a man as a partner, that’s the weight and personality, the weight of an actress, who could be with her? play in partnership. tikhonov. perhaps, by the way, but it didn’t work out. and so they searched and searched and found daronina, who was extremely strict in her approach to the selection of scripts. just as it was difficult to find lioznova, and perhaps even more difficult was doronin. and just as they always said that working with leznova is incredibly difficult, what if you if you could work with leznova, you can work with anyone. they said the same thing about doronena, that it’s impossible to work with her, well, she’s an incredibly complex person. and they collided while filming. these two personalities, yes, sometimes they even say, doronina won over lioznova in this we sympathize with the actor efremov, who

probably witnessed this difficult process. nevertheless, he was just in weight, as if worthy of daronina, they then actually played in other films, this film, yes, efremov will not be there, but still i think he’s less interesting, but... i brought a new one for my father-in-law and mother-in-law, they ’re dead, sinner, they’re even dead people waiting for their end, they weren’t given a lot of things during their lifetime, i brought them to daddy yegor, i thought about the one-armed man , you offend them, and... i’ll give you mine, well, show me, brag,

you still had two kopecks, brand new? for some reason , liozno really wanted the film to be called not tritopoli on shabolovka, like bashchigovsky, it was tritoprin on plyushchikha and barshchigovsky wrote that it was he who gave in to her , she was very glad, not very far from each other friend these streets, but still, well, perhaps it seemed that it sounded more harmonious, or something, it was always important for her that it was hers, that is, she decided in the end, but they wrote a song for her, she will know who she sings it better than the composer. or the author of the text, she knows how best for an actor to play, she knows how best to film it, she prepared for each shoot as carefully as possible, that is, for her it

really was such a job. this tells us, perhaps, perhaps, why this scene is so strange, because it is a dream the main character, of which there are actually quite a few in the film, and we start with this dream, and here such elements of surrealism suddenly arise that you forget about when you just know, well, yes, yes, yes, she sings a song of tenderness, they are sitting in the car, here he is waiting for her, realism, yes, but there is also this internal state, the inner world of the main character, in principle, just like the film... called the name of the main character, this one could probably be called nyura, but not so, here we move on to our favorite topic, or theme, to the discovery, i would say it, of the cinematic, lyotic, like a hidden surrealist in soviet cinema, there are obvious ones, like andrei sergeevich, konchalovsky, for whom this shoots out somewhere at some moments, slips through, especially in later films like the pockmarked hen, and there are more clearly, it is interesting that gerasimov himself is quite himself, despite the fact that he is such

a classic soviet. director, boss, cinematographer, general, i would even say, from the cinema, which makes such films, built according to all the canons of socialist realism, the no less, there was no chusht of surrealism, and in general was sometimes often its defender, yes, when there were problems with the cartoon glass harmonica by andrei kharzhanovsky, according to the script, according to the script of gennady shpalikov, they tried to ban the film, because its aesthetics were too incomprehensible, alien to soviet cinema, then...

in general, musicality and rhythm were inherent, entering vgik, she entered , again, the classic of soviet cinema, in the village of dudovkin, who later transferred the workshop to gerasimov, but she asked what her favorite music, she named beethovin, then he asked, what do you like there or tell me something, she said, i’d better tell you how to tell music, i’d better sing for you, she began to lead a melody with her voice, and you dance, and i sing, yes, as they say, that’s why maybe there was this carmen dance, and then they had a game with gerasimov, when they found themselves in the studio at the same time, she went to see him, let’s say on the set, even maybe, naturally, at the wrong time filming, and between takes, and they came into play, it was necessary guess what one of them was humming, the members of his film crew looked at them like they were crazy, and in general, she comes here, takes the master away from work, but for them this was really what united them, this is the music itself, and leoznova in fact , it took a very long time to create a special

creative... from the series we are traveling on a train with the heroes, and a wonderful company of actors gathered there, yuri yakovlev, irina muravyova, klara luchko, oleg inkovsky, and leonid koralev in the title role, and more aristarkh livanov, here is the main one, yes, the six, having worked with them, she thought that, in principle, already at the dubbing stage, she told them, let's make the next picture together: yakovlev, luchko and muravyova, and this picture, the carnival, was actually born from her

short teaching at vgik . it seems to me that she had only one workshop, she worked there for five years, she asked the students to make ethis based on the script, the actual film carnival, which was published, and she still didn’t like the way they did it, she still didn’t have one of these she didn't like it, she didn't like it started to redo it, tell how it should be, and then she says, why am i telling you, i did it myself, let’s watch an excerpt from the cardal, kokoshka kokushonka bought a hood, put on the hood, how funny he looks in the hood, i remember the aesthetics of the group’s videos abba,

this one is all fashionable. the stage was then in the late seventies, early eighties, which would then sparkle with new colors towards the end of that era. this, by the way, can also be considered such, a little surreal elements, because the heroine is all the time. v something like this appears in her head, she sees herself as a star, this is probably lioznova’s most autobiographical film, because she was such a girl, though not from the provinces, she was born in moscow, but she wants to be someone, she wants to become someone, but she doesn’t succeed, yes, this is the drama, plus the mother, the mother, to whom the main character returns at the end, who is sick, absolutely this is the story of liozny and her mother, and of course the music, here, by the way, in this fragment, why we you... several things are combined, firstly, someone says prolioznom from the actors, from her scriptwriters, that she did everything clearly and clearly in advance and was such a tough director on the set. someone says that she actually

liked improvisation, if not outright she loved it, she adored it, but she took part in the filming, if you come up with something interesting, yes, then it may well be, here is shalevich, who played tatyana doronina’s husband in... he played an uncharacteristic role for him in the seventeenth spring, but the role of an american, and he said that at some point they did not learn the text with a partner, and there were 17 pages, they thought that somehow all this would be voiced, she forced them to learn it right there and spoke this text with them, and it really turned out very cool, because they understood it, they didn’t memorize it at home, yes, somehow they understood it, comprehended it, so she came up with some things in advance, the elements that she wanted in the film were very clear to her, so she really... wanted the carnival to have a song about the telephone, that is, it was a direct order , there will be a telephone. on the other hand, where does this small scene, the heroine sweeps the asphalt and at the same time trains her diction, with these very pebbles, nuts, and she

came up with this already during the filming process, when she came to the set she said, let’s try this, it turns out very interesting, so this is a combination of music, humor , melodramas, something unexpected, a great master of eldara comedies. i said that i envy lioznova, who was able to make the film carnival, because when in your film people laugh for 15 minutes so much that they don’t even hear further text, but you need to do this, you need to be able to do this. this is a podcast of lisenstein's witnesses and his leading film historians, natalia ryabchikova and stanislav didinsky. we continue our conversation about director tatyana leoznova. do you remember, about 10-15 years ago there was a parody of... the film - 17 moments of spring after it was colorized, by the way, with her approval and her participation, yes, and there the whole comedy principle was built on the fact that the colorizers were painted in a very specific way,

painting one sterlitz boot pink, another orange, three, a jacket green, in general, they did not hit the tone, and thereby completely demoralized the enemy, yes, as it were, the hisstapa was completely, the work was stopped, because everyone was trying to understand how they could continue to live in this form, but this is also really such an element surrealism, yes, we see, if this had not been inherent in the original work, this parody could not have been developed to such a level. lioznova dreamed of continuing to work with musical cinema in the eighties, in fact, because this was really interesting to her, this it was very important to her, she even thought about filming the memoir. i met her, but something, something didn’t work out, and her last film was actually a three-part television series, it seems, with a very intriguing complex title, the end of the world followed by a symposium, yes, but critics say about it

that it’s there was already some kind of belated movie, a film adaptation of an american play, where the main character, in fact, is also a playwright, all our wonderful soviet actors play americans.

to see something unusual in what did, but then the film was not accepted at all, and this is a different era, after the fifth congress of kemetographers, when these veni... perestroikas completely changed the film industry, the old generation is leaving, some people really remain, some continue to work, but very often, or most often less successfully than before, it is very difficult to find contact with the viewer, yes, because religiously it has always been very important this very feeling, yes, that she knows what she is doing for whom, he always understood who she is for removes, for residents, for citizens of the soviet union, for soviet audience, and the values ​​that it postulated on the screen, yes, coincided with... with the values ​​of the audience, but here it was as if the audience disappeared, left along with this

country, or at least some kind of break occurred, and for lioznova it was important to actually work in cinema, she said, quoted someone, art is the work of condensing goodness, that this is her cinema, it should not just talk to the audience, it should help them somehow, this is the very good , i don’t know how to accumulate. who raises other people's children, all this some kind of work to condense goodness, and

it seems to me that this is her main legacy, the legacy of lioznova, although the themes of the paintings are different, but the message for her was always the same. what's your favorite shot? it’s hard to say, after all, there aren’t that many films, but what about lyose films? well, i won’t, i won’t be original, after all, the scene in tritopol on the ivy with singing. with this line the earth sank without you, oh, it seems to me that this is very, i don’t know if the word is poignant, but in this in this, even in this fragment of the scene, in these few seconds, we see a lot of this saving of money, but now we can say that leoznogo’s films are archaic, that they may be too simple, but for her it was also important that she deliberately did not go for any experiments with the form, although...

you my best friend’s wife, let’s not get hysterical, at first i was naturally on

the girl’s side, but when i started to figure it out, there were a lot of dubious details, since he would stay with me, well, in general, he’s an amazing person, very modest, i immediately felt that there was something wrong with him... it's not that you pestered me, i really want to know the truth, yes, we are lovers, still take a closer look at your place to see who it could be, let's go to paris next week. fortune teller, first thing tomorrow, why is it taking so long, maybe there are some problems? this podcast is a must read. i'm glana

batnikova. this year marks the 105th anniversary of the classic english literature writer arias murdoch. today we will talk about her novel "the black prince". the plot at first glance is very simple. there is a hero, an elderly, fifty-eight-year-old writer who also worked as a tax inspector in the past, he dreams of writing a book, is looking for solitude, but at this time his friends begin to bother a married couple he knows. he begins to understand their relationship and quite unexpectedly falls in love with their twenty-year-old daughter, tries to, well , let’s say, seduce her, but at the same time with a serious approach, but... his girlfriend leaves him, and he ends up in prison, accused of the murder of her father, and we are trying to figure out what is behind this relationship, behind this family system, writer vera bogdanova, hello, hello, please tell me why exactly the black prince is considered a landmark work by murdoch, what is so important about it,

what topics are open there, well, in my opinion, this is not considered a landmark work by murdoch, because it was a kind of... a turning point, i would say, a turning point, a turning point novel in her career, it was very difficult for her, and it’s quite non-standard and not like her other novels, but what makes it different, it ’s different, firstly , that's how it seems to me intensity and dynamics, saturation with dialogues, as she herself said, this is a demonic novel, it was demonically difficult for her, that is, the black prince, that this is hamlet, that’s right, this is, firstly, a reference to hamlet, really hamlet, and just hamlet. hamlet is admired by the main character of bradley's novel, a writer, a writer, and also a tax inspector, yes, a former tax inspector and therefore a writer, and he admires hamlet, he really loves shakespeare, in principle, it is hamlet that he deals with his beloved julian, then

there julian asks him to make out, well, it’s like she’s the daughter of his friends, she’s the daughter of his very good friend.

despite the fact that before, for example, they could, on the contrary, praise it and say that this is a very deep work, touches on cool topics, it’s done so well, it’s only just reaching some very wide audience, a mass audience, right away as if it ceases to be some kind of elite product, and this is exactly how the main character bradley pearson treats arnold’s works, so he believes that this some nonsense, on the other hand. he envies arnold, and he is very captivated by the fact that arnold’s daughter is just the opposite, she says: i want to write books similar to your novels, that is, he buys me a good assessment of his work, well, let’s say, straight up flattery, yes, that is, to her i really want to listen to a lecture about hamlet, plus she herself played

hamlet in the production; in fact, hamlet runs like this through the entire novel, but hamley appears here as a kind of black erost. that is, we find many references in the text to the phrase black eros, that is, comes as black eros into these relationships, it turns out that it is eros that destroys them, or tell me how the plot is built around erotic interaction, julian and bradley, they have a huge difference in age, they have a huge difference in age, it’s true, that is, bradley is already over 50, julian is 20 years old, he is 58, that’s almost 60 even. we’ll be approaching 60 already, already approaching 60, and he generally considers himself that he himself condemned before this, that is, his sister’s ex-husband, that he was an old man and an old man , that means he took a young mistress himself ends up doing the same thing, but that means it’s about dark

eros, which is used many, many times in the novel; in fact, here dark eros is dark , it’s not only in terms of...