runs like a thread through the entire novel, but gamli appears here as a kind of black eros, that is, we see in the text a lot of mentions of the phrase black eros, that is, gamli comes as a black eros into these relationships, it turns out that it is eros that destroys them, yes, or tell me how the plot is built around the karotic interaction between julian and bradley, they have a huge age difference, they have a huge age difference, it’s true, that is , bradley is already over 50, julian is 20 years old, he’s 58, that’s already under 60 even beyond, here we will, we will be like this now, he’s approaching 60, already approaching 60, and he generally considers himself, he himself condemned before this, that is, his sister’s ex-husband, that he’s an old man, yes, an old man, that means he took a young mistress, he’s entering the ultimately the same, but it means about dark eros, which is used many, many times.

all-consuming passion, on the one hand, it destroys, on the other hand, it gives precisely the strength for creativity, that is, for bradley pearson. finally - some kind of inspiration begins, that is, he begins to write, this is an inextricable part of the destruction of creativity, wait, he starts writing already in prison, when he supposedly killed this arnold, actually killed him rachel, but everything is so confused in this family that in the end it turns out that for some reason this bradley is to blame, and he doesn’t even deny especially his guilt and but, but this whole situation, this whole dark eros, it led him to the fact that he finally sat down to write, what’s the paradox? he's the whole novel, i

really laughed at this, it's certainly a terrible situation, but i really laughed, from the very beginning of the novel, our bradley pearson wanted a place for solitude to write, i also laughed, i also re-read it now, i noticed that all this time a person wants to write a novel, someone always interferes with him, some people, some events come all the time, in the end this is love unexpectedly falling on one's head, in the end only in prison, he is finally left alone and can write a book, he and he finally get a place of solitude, so that where there is none...

it turns out that he gets in with them, one might say, it’s just that this couple is jumping on a sore spot, it seems like this girl, she’s 20 years old, this an adult, yes, but for some reason everyone rushes around her like a child, everyone there has very big problems with responsibility, in fact, the relationship between arnold and rachel is not the only example of some kind of strange marriage in the book, there is also a marriage - brandley’s sister, and her husband roger, who... in general , didn’t want to marry her 20 years ago, but that means it happened, and he was forced to marry her, and it was a very unhappy marriage, from which the sender runs away, everything ends very badly, so what a waste we won’t take it - in this book, he’s terrible, he ’s terrible, he’s destructive, he’s perverted in his own, in his own at his own root, and even bradley’s past marriage to christian, yes, he was too. not ideal at all, that is, bradley

is not happy with him, in general, how it ended in nothing, and despite the fact that christian is trying to get him back, somehow bradley himself is not very keen on these. relationships, and there are no good heroes, listen, this bradley, look, he’s trying to hook up reichka with him, and mom, this young julian, then this julian falls in love with him, well, conventionally, she says, at least, that i love you, then we see that his ex-wife, christian, also wants him back, we even read some kind of analysis at some point, yes, this random character francis, who constantly gets in the way there, is some unfortunate brother of his ex-wife, we even see how he hints at some kind of passion, almost arnold for bradley, that is, we understand that this bradley is just a hero-lover in every way, although this tax inspector and an unlucky writer, why does this man seem so

boring, in general, according to the description, not handsome, why does he stir the souls of all the characters so much, it seems to me that he doesn’t stir the soul, these are all some kind of fictional... some passion and there was admiration for bradley as a writer, as some kind of intellectual, a specialist in shakespeare, perhaps, but no, it was, it was not love, and, accordingly, francis is generally a very strange character, who also,

i think, has no i didn’t experience any real feelings, by the way, interesting, criticism draw a parallel in the novel the black prince, when the hero finds himself in a whirlwind of other people's passions, as if everyone attributes to him some kind of love merit, critics compare this with the statement of iris murdoch herself in early interviews, when she first became famous, she said, that she doesn’t understand how to behave when everyone seems to have elevated her to the pedestal, everyone seems to be in love with her, although in reality this is not the case, this is a fiction, it seems to me that this is exactly the feeling she conveys in the black prince. this podcast is a must read, jana patnikova, the writer vera bogdanova and i are talking today about iris murdoch’s novel, the black prince. and tell me, please, vera, you are also a young, beautiful woman,

you are also a successful writer, you feel, perhaps, some similar conflicts, that is, you yourself say that when faced with fame, she... well with a certain, well , double bottom of this love, that is, perhaps not entirely sincere love, yes, you understand what this is, what kind of conflict this is, there is such a thing, namely, there is a certain admiration for the image, because in fact none of some viewers who will watch this program now or those who will read my interview or even those who will read my books, none of them know the real me, which is logical... it seems to me, an absolute understanding that some... the image that readers and spectators put on me, which has nothing in common with me, can also play a cruel joke, because at some point you begin to adapt to this image, and also bradley, the main character

of the novel, is dead , he, too, at some point begins, it’s as if he is brought into these images, he really starts, although he didn’t want, for example, a relationship with rachel , some kind of affair, but him... listen, it seems to me that there is very typical behavior, you know, how rachel behaves and how she behaves daughter julian, and we see simply from examples that rachel she literally puts pressure on this bradley, she literally just overwhelms him, seduces him, he is forced, he is constantly forced to be in some kind of intimate and communications with her, but he does not he wants to, but she drags him into it, plus he saw some scene intimate family, and maybe after that... it’s even more awkward for him to refuse rachel when she begins to seduce him, but in the end, this affair, a half-baked affair with julian’s mother, somehow later impresses julian, that is, again mother then writes a letter to julian that this bradley, he tried to seduce me too, it turns out that

julia makes some kind of a bad impression, she runs away and maybe this will play some role in their relationship, this hobby, but we see , that’s how you behave... no need, yes, like a woman pressing on a man, and how perhaps one should behave, because julie, she somehow runs away all the time, well , somehow she always eludes this man, and maybe it will be... this passion in him, it’s not very clear there either , what exactly will be the passion in him, because he knew julian for a long time, well, in fact, a novel from a man’s point of view, here is iris murdyk, a woman, she writes from a man’s point of view, this is a reliable narrator, we believe her, you believe in it, what do you, you have a feeling that these are male feelings in relationships, what is interesting to us women, we read, yes, how is it from the point of view from a man's point of view, but on the other hand, there seems to be a convincing story here, but we... also understand that the author is a woman. there are two moments here, the first, in my opinion, when a writer writes, he is not a man, not a woman, he is

the one from whom he writes, that is, the same thing with me, when i write from the perspective of a man, i am at that moment this man, when i write on behalf of a girl, i am a girl, i’ll write on behalf of a dog, which means i’ll be a dog for a while, that is, this, well, you’re just like on the side who says that i’m a writer, i i even write my love for the stool,

his story, because we have four more afterwords, where each minor character tells his own version, rachel says that bradley is actually crazy, and that means he harassed her in every possible way, in general, this is the truth, and pursued her , yes, the ex-wife also says that it means only her was delusional, julian says that yes, there was a feeling, most likely she was just. in art she talks a lot, which looks strange, but it seems like such a story is very concrete, suddenly there is some kind of abstraction in her reasoning, we still don’t fully understand whether there is a reliable narrator here, whom we can trust, plus there is also loxium, this is some kind of anonymous person, yes, who publishes these, and we also don’t understand whether this is really some kind of publisher, or who didn’t understand it, i think i’m probably not smart enough to understand who? here again, loxie is one of the names of apollo, that is, yes, that is, loxie is

the dark one, as if there is an apologonic beginning, then the dark side is like the devil, like lucifer, that is, it is real, and even in the first edition of the black prince there was the head of apollo, therefore, that is, it was not only here that there are references to hamlet, but also there are references to myths and... there is a lot of dark talk here about the connection of creativity, but still i think creativity wins, that is , in the end there is no love as such and there is no truth there , there is just wait, well, let’s figure it out this way, this hero is bradley, we see him so boring at first.

a very strong intensity of emotions, yes, during this period, and we cease to recognize him, in this i mean, this novel is a bit of a turnaround, because at first we think that he is such a person, and then suddenly it turns out that he is so gentle, and he believes, as you rightly noted, even in prison , that julien is his still loves, and he even almost takes it upon himself to kill arnold simply because he feels guilty for what he destroyed, somehow. the psyche of this poor girl, but at the same time it turns out that the event because of which all this

started is not worth what you think, such a reaction, because well, well, a girl, well, she got carried away, maybe she’s a teacher at an institute that’s older, it ’s a popular plot, why suddenly someone like this gets involved in lateralism, or even faustianism, even some kind of dark principles, dark eros here... on the one hand, again , i don’t think we can talk about true love on his part, he fell in love with the image again, you and i said that before that he knew julie, he did not see this beauty in her.

the characters are going crazy there, it’s even kind of absurd, that is, this very situation is being escalated to the point of absurdity, and the logic is in there are no actions of the characters either, listen, why is murdoch so cool, that is, why do we respect her at all, why do we still read her, talk about her, murdoch is very big, it seems to me, a philosopher from literature, cool, by the way, i i agree, that is, she has so many meanings built into her novels, so many layers. so many subtexts, in each of them, each of them can be talked about endlessly and pulls out an infinite number of meanings, plus different forms, different tools, forms, for example, how it builds itself the narration, how it was done, it was very, well, it remains very cool and so unique and great, well, the work on this

is really classic literature, in general, although it can be mistaken for a detective story, for fiction. yes, in the end there is an intensity of passions, there is seduction, there is murder, that is, we can say that she operates with rather pop genre techniques, no, but due to this we read with such rapture the black prince, that is, he not boring, but there are a lot of dialogues, by the way, good dialogues, dialogues beautiful here too, which is surprising that there are a lot of them and...

you are beautiful, you are a talented woman, and but your profession, it forces you to be an introvert, that is, you work alone with yourself, and you write a lot, and you are alone in this state, tell me, do you feel some kind of connection, maybe there is a stench, because she is also a very interesting woman, she was also married to a writer, they

lived together all their lives, maybe you feel some kind of similarity. character, here is a bright woman who, at the same time, is the most introverted, like introverted, i don’t know about me and murdock, but her idea about the impossibility of finding a quiet place really resonates with me, because even in her novel sea-sea, yes, which received the booker prize, yes, this theme is also heard there, that the writer goes somewhere in solitude, tries to write , then someone comes again, that is , this impossibility of solitude and... the end of talking to yourself from, well, a piece of paper, roughly speaking, yeah, that's very close, that's it it's impossible to drive away all the people to drive away the world, yes, that is, this moment when it’s really, well, i think it’s not only the writer, it’s all writers, i think they will understand, this is the moment when you really want the peace of solitude and listen to your thoughts, but it’s

impossible find, my husband says that you have to work, so that children crawl on you , the water is noisy, that you are boiling a pot, and you still write, i can only go out the window, well, you see, we have already found something in common you and murdok, which she also wants all the time finding solitude to write, yes, this is absolutely important for me, that is, i always close myself and god forbid even a fly flies there, that is, it is very distracting, but it turns out that you are melting, let’s say, this communication with the world then into your texts, that’s right - you’re right, they’re intensified to the point of absurdity, but they don’t become funny, we continue to be inside some kind of real living drama, and we

believe that these characters really exist, they’re just crazy, yes , but can we imagine such real people, real people, completely, completely, absolutely, tell me, this is what murdok looks like in the overall literary picture, who came before it, who came after it? her, you know, that’s who the writer came from, who he poured into, that is , there’s, for example, jane diddian, yes, an american writer who wrote a lot in the style of some kind of memoirs, where she wrote about how she she was worried about the death of her husband, a year of magical thinking, she has a book about how she experienced the death of her daughter, in general, she had some misfortunes that she poured into the text and to me it seemed that there was some kind of confessional introverted motive, it looked like a murdy. i would also like to say about the parallel with nabokov, specifically the black prince, because i do, because it was murdyk who also signed a letter asking

for the publication of lolita in great britain, this is 10 years before the black prince, then there is she was in every possible way for nabokov and she really, well, apparently liked lolita and a lot of nabokov, i think there is also in the black prince, but not according to... postil is completely different, but still, you know, lolita is a thirteen-year-old girl, after all, julin is a twenty-year-old girl, that’s still the case, but i agree with you that we still see a glimpse of this lolita in these relationships, and the hero’s feeling of guilt is mainly in his inner picture, she’s like like a girl, although we understand that she also played with it and threw it away, well, in general, i think it’s a girl, because he saw how she grew up.

then this bradley, he sees this girl in the costume of a black prince, i consider this the climax of the novel, when she comes out to him in this suit with some kind of sheep skull, and at that moment a passion awakens in him, which scares this girl, that is, she doesn’t and after that she runs away from home, yes, either with dad, or alone, well in general, she leaves him, and then she builds a wall with him, she almost doesn’t communicate with him, almost doesn’t communicate. she writes a letter with him, yes, well, in general, we understand that she is running away from him, if she wanted to figure out this relationship, she would figure it out, but it turns out that he

scares her precisely with this dark passion, like do you think this plays a role? i think so, because she, too, initially saw in him more of a fatherly figure, and when a fatherly figure suddenly attacks you and this is a completely different role, a completely different role. and of course it’s scary on the one hand, on the other hand she runs away after her father arrives, her father reveals bradley’s real age to her, and gives her a letter from rachel, from well , that is, where, in general, the mother talks about her affair, and julie, he finds out that there was some kind of affair, in general it’s all very confusing, she probably did the right thing by removing herself from this situation, i think so, because it’s crazy there. would grow to infinite limits, well, look, when she is driving in a car out of town with predley, they are just beginning this relationship, they do not

yet have, so to speak, some real flat relationship, she, to prove her love, she jumps out of the car, but this is horror, this is extreme, that is, she wanted to prove to him that she loves, in the end she ran away as soon as some problems appeared or no, how do you see it, well, it ’s just that if she had stayed with him, self-destruction would have continued, destruction as well, if he says, then if you think his passion for her, it was dark, destructive, in this maybe there is a connection with humbert humbert, yes, that he destroys the girl, yes, yes, and it seems to me that it simply couldn’t be otherwise, in principle, maybe, here murdyk also lays down the idea that it’s possible in principle for creative people be a healthy relationship and well in the generally accepted sense, i think yes, i think it can’t. perhaps creative people can be, so to speak, cockroaches, or maybe that’s why this whole story was such a rocking

of this inner. pendulum, in order to ultimately produce this text, it ’s an interesting text, a black prince, like a text, well, if you look at it as art, it’s interesting, in fact, bradley seemed to me more like he was always floating with the flow, so he’s carried along, carries him, punches him there, he stays there, punches him here, he’s here, him, he hit, really, i’d like to say, hit into this love, kzhulian, and also there...

point of view, he begins to run somewhere, break out, wait for her at his parents’ house in the car, there he almost climbs into her window somewhere, that is, he begins to do things that we don’t expect anything from him, but on the other hand, he doesn’t do anything to justify himself, or for example, having justified himself, he could go to julian and explain himself, but he prefers to stay in prison, that is, he could either -i think he could justify himself, but he doesn’t even try, in general, both of these heroes...

tell me, vera, do you have some kind of approach already defined, you are still an accomplished author, so i know that your book is the season of poisonous fruits, it is dedicated to the life of a girl against the backdrop of the nineties, do you have some kind of approach to to characters who were formed in some difficult way, you say that the reader cannot fully understand you and should not understand, that is , you always close yourself off from him with some kind of images and never... there is no exact reflection of you , do you have any approach to your characters? half the character is always me, that is, me, so that, well, the author always writes with himself, and for me, in order to write something really truthful and real, i need to put something of my own into the character, this is true, and these are not necessarily good things, there are bad ones , why i don’t like the characters, and

they tell me that it was clear that you... didn’t really like this character, i say: i know, and there is exactly this trait that i don’t really like in myself, it is there in this character. this year marks the 105th anniversary of the classic english literature writer iris murdoch, a woman who wrote from a man's perspective, we wonder what came of it, she still writes a lot about the aging of a woman, she wrote the black prince when she was over 50, in my opinion, she is very - it seems to me , reflects in this novel about the appreciation of the female body and almost tangible she has this disgust towards the aging female body, these sweaty feet, yes, this is rachel and priscila, this is the idea of ​​​​the middle age of a woman, of course monsters, she is very very scary it is clear that she was very afraid of this and indeed, that is, some very subtle observation, but

i didn’t really want to grow old. that it was not clear to her where to move next from this middle age, how to perceive her body, how to perceive love, and in general how to live further, well, what next are you in life after these 50 plus, and how, when your body becomes more and more important to you refuses when youth is behind, there is only some kind of darkness ahead, it seems to me that she still does not find the answer to this question, no, there is no answer to... she looks a little is unfair to middle-aged women, they certainly have an advantage over youth, over the youth, the freshness of julienne, they have an advantage, well, not everyone falls apart at 50, let’s put it bluntly, so i don’t know how it was in the seventies, but now women are very they take care of themselves and many fifty-year-olds look better, some look better than thirty-year-olds and feel great , i agree, there is definitely some kind of feminine side to this

inner fear of aging. it is very reflected in this text, i agree with you, okay, vera, thank you for the interesting conversation, thank you, i was very curious to talk to you about the arismer woman, because she... with a slightly strange silhouette stands out against the background of literature of the 20th century, that is, she seems to be a woman, but she writes from a male perspective, is popular at the same time, yes, an honored author, interesting, that is, you can’t ignore her at all, if we talk about history and literature, this is an english classic, a classic of english literature, absolutely, be sure to read iris murdoch, there is many other novels not only the black prince, but today vera bogdanova and i were interested in talking specifically about the black prince. how about the connection between mysticism and eroticism.

hello, dear friends. this is the life of the remarkable podcast. and i’m with you, its host, writer, alexey varlamov. it's july 10th. 50 years since the birth of the wonderful sculptor sergei timofeevich kanenkov, we will talk about him today, and my guests in the studio will be the heads of the museum of sergei konenkov’s workshop, this museum belongs to the russian academy of arts, svetlana leonidovna bobrova, and director of the moscow yesenino museum, oleg yuryevich robinov. hello, hello, and svetlana leonidovna, we will probably start with oleg yuryevich, because it is clear why you are present in this studio, and as for oleg yuryevich, there is some intrigue, why are you why yesenin,

please tell us about what kind of person you are are you related to our main character? well, yesenin was a good friend of sergei timofeevich kanyunkov, and sergei timofeevich is my great-grandfather, great-grandfather, that is, you... yes, along what line, can you restore your genealogy? yes, my mother, alla kirillovna konenkova, she was born in exactly the house where the sergei timofeevich creative workshop museum is now located on tverskaya street, gorky street then. my grandfather kirill sergeevich konenkov, he is the son of sergei timofeevich, and there was also an eldest son mark, but he died in infancy, so soon after mark’s death my grandfather kirill sergeevich was born. well, great.

there is a wonderful legend about freeing a landowner from french captivity, so they got free, but not entirely free, over the course

of decades they still bought themselves off, that is , they bought themselves out of serfdom, but they were already free people, the fact is that, like serfs, they did not have surnames; having received freedom, they received at the same time the horse’s nickname, the villager said... is going to conquer the capital, was that so? not really, he studied in broslavl, barin’s son was just going to study, and sergei timofeevich was taken as his companion, a boy of the same age, he successfully passed the exam, they prepared for the exam together, i passed successfully, then i went to moscow to the academy of military painting from my patronymic name, but this was not enough, the most important thing was to overcome the order from my relatives, who said,

as i understood, yes, it’s good to have a literate person with a high school education, but a sculptor is already too much, that is, the parents were against it, of course, of course, yes, so the main clause was set, those very words of 50 rubles that had to be earned by selling the harvest, so konenkov worked all day in the field, well in fact, this is a young man without the most perfect training, whatever, it was a school that competed with the st. petersburg academy of art. what is this today? glazuny academy? at that time, the moscow school positioned itself, so to speak, as those schools that create the russian national style, so young artists were needed who, firstly, should give birth to that very style, who can give birth to a genuine style if not a peasant son, who is free from all western influences, therefore introduced himself wonderful, presented it to volnokhim. young sergei konenkov, as a man of the people,

untouched, virgin, not spoiled by western culture, just what was needed, yes, and he was accepted, he very quickly went through all stages of training, in the end he received a large silver medal for the sculpture rock fighter, which was soon acquired by the tretyakov gallery, you understand the scale, he said, when he was driving along the road just to moscow, he saw how people were crushing stones, making a road, this is his impression of roads to moscow, he... realized it in the sculpture stonebreaker, so for this sculpture he receives a large silver medal, which gives him the opportunity to live abroad for a whole year, he studies western european museums, konenkov was certainly in the raden museum, that is, he studied raden's sculpture, but most of all he was struck by michelangelo, he was stunned, the next work from his student work, which he created within the walls of the russian imperial academy of arts, was the famous figure of samson, which was inspired by michelangelo's slaves, well, it's like would be the following. and this is this, yes, this

samson, but it was samson himself, so is it true or not that he was destroyed? no, no, this is a slightly different story, the fact is that after graduating from the moscow school , konyunkov leaves for italy, where he meets with a teacher at the imperial academy of arts, miklemish, a famous sculptor, who was famous for collecting talented brilliant students, when he met the horse in the italian quarries, he looked for marble for his

made of clay, and why was the commission outraged? firstly, all

the classical proportions are violated here, that is, he overcomes, look, here are exaggerated brushes, and in michelangelo all the proportions were also violated, well, not as much as in konyunkova, that is, konyunkov went further than michelangelo, no, you can’t say that , so that further mikil just an academic education - this is the framework from which konenkov came out and naturally he did what should not be done, it will come a little later, politics will certainly come a little later. that also the first proposal to exclude konenkova from the academy for such freedom and denial of all academics for nihilism , the queen archive fought for konenkova.

laurel branch, palm branch, excuse me, as konenkov said - a symbol of immortality, this is vrubliv’s demonic image, angels of victory, angels of revolution, there are certainly biblical iconographic, biblical connotations, red, white, so we move on to the next period in the life of konenkov in 1923 he left for america and stayed there for more than 20 years, and leaves... not alone, but leaves with his young wife, this is his second wife, margarita ivanovna, the surname varantsova, in my opinion, was, yes, she was from sarapal, a wonderful city on the banks of the kama, so, this is the most mysterious , the actual external plot, uh, sergei timofeevich was invited by the committee for organizing arts.