tv PODKAST 1TV July 26, 2024 1:50am-2:31am MSK
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shukshin at some point realized that the profession of a director is cooler than the profession of a writer, in general, that a director is the most wonderful thing for a man, so i think that of course he entered vgik, and those documents that we have today we have, they say that he consciously, purposefully went for any actor, he went specifically for the director, and then he passes the exams and gets admitted and really he gets in because he was talented, no one argues with this, but besides , he really was very smart for that... in order to enter vgik, there was not enough essays, there was not enough interview, you also had to write two essays, now these essays have been published, and if you read them, you will see that they are written in surprisingly literate language, deep, smart, beautiful essays, what is called an intelligent person, and intelligence is actually this peasant guy, it seems to me that it was originally inherent and this is also a very important feature of shukshin. because when we
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think about his personality, about his fate, then what we see? what is shukshin? this is a boy who was born a peasant, this is a peasant who later became a worker, this is a worker who later became a soldier or a sailor, this is a man who later became an intellectual, yes, this is a director who became an actor, this is an actor who became a writer, then shukshin really absorbed the most different facets of soviet... life and although outwardly he seems so simple-minded, direct, open, to a large extent it is a mask, to a large extent it is a convention, he was a secretive person, he was an encrypted person, and it is not so easy to decipher him, but it is precisely this depth of shukshin’s personality, the depth of his nature, that is perhaps the most remarkable, the most important thing about him, explaining his incredible success, and one more a very important point, shukshin’s biography. in
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the ranks, he managed to first join the komsomol, and then become a candidate member of the party, and therefore he was accepted not only as a talented person, he was accepted as, well , if you like, such a career worker, it was no coincidence that when he entered the first year at gika, he immediately headed the local komsomol bureau and was one of those who persecuted stelyak, in particular, he persecuted lyudmila gurchin. yes , for her all sorts of western habits, and then an incredible change occurs towards the end of his training, when shukshin turns into such a hooligan, if you like, when shukshan’s views change, change radically. what was the reason? the reason for the changes that occurred with vasily makarovich while he was studying at avgika is that in in 1956, when shukshin was a third -year student, the famous twentieth party congress took place and after the twentieth congress. party, these
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are the same men in splices, yes, who were shot in 1933, they were all rehabilitated, this terrible truth was revealed, which incredibly hit shukshinn, indeed for him it was a monstrous shock, shukshin’s fellow students pavgika, it was no coincidence that they loved to remember that this guy who walked around in tarpaulin boots, yes, who flaunted his village origins a little, this one... once dumbfounded them by reading hamlet’s monologue, hamlet was his favorite literary hero, it was this idea of hamlet, the idea of vengeance for his father, it was shukshin’s key dream, it was, as it were , the goal of his life, the fate of his father, his sonship, this, this is in shakshin, undoubtedly the most important thing, in fact, shukshin here...
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sets as his goal to reveal this terrible truth of the time, the terrible truth of his father , to repent to him for having been forced, forced to renounce him. but besides this despite these difficulties, there were wonderful bright moments: firstly, shukshin’s classmate in avkika was andrei torkovsky, it is of course amazing how these two completely different people really are, how they coincided in one place, at the same time, moreover... the first role in movie that shukshin played - it was a role in a course film by andrei torkovsky, it was a film about a killer based on a story by ernest khamengue, shukshin played the main role in it, played brilliantly, that’s the fact that imagine, it means pyryev, as it were, shukshin, pushed him onto the director's path, rom accepted him, torkovsky discovered him as an actor, and then shukshin's fate will continue to roll and develop, all this, of course, speaks of '.
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the randomness of this man’s fate, and shukshin in general, in fact, when we talk about his acting talent, it seems to me that in order to become a director, he studied a lot. in general, he was a very hardworking person, as a writer he also certainly worked a lot, but as an actor, i have the feeling that he really played without difficulty, that’s all all the people who knew him as an actor talk about the incredible naturalness of his acting talent, the impression is that fate, as if understanding the whole severity of his life, she gave him this gift, she gave him an acting gift, acting talent just like that some kind of bonus, this is shokshin’s acting fate, it really was extremely successful, but he dreamed of something else, he, of course, dreamed of becoming a director, and in parallel the literary plot in his life was developing, v in the early sixties, immediately after
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graduating from gika, shukshin simultaneously made films and at the same time worked in literature; at first , his work in cinema was not very successful, because his diploma... film from lyabyazhyev was not a great success, in addition, mikhail ilyevich rom, shukshino cooled down, cooled down, because rom was a real teacher, and rom really loved to educate people, and giving them a form, so to speak, it was useless to educate shukshin, he came to vgik established, mature, accomplished a man who wanted or had to take what he needed to take from vgik, then he went his own way, at some point... he and rom parted ways, and rom did not help him the way he helped torkovsky or how he helped alexander mitya or another film director, although shukshin still loved roma very much and was always infinitely grateful to him, but one way or another, and shukshin
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was helped in his fate as a film director by another wonderful soviet film director, it was sergei apolinorich gerasimov, who invited his gorky's studio, in fact, it was there that gorky's shukshin studio was located. worked in the sixties, it was there that his wonderful films were shot, first of all, the film such a guy lives, a film that was a huge success, a truly wonderful picture, and what else is interesting about it, because you watch it, this is a film really about a village guy, film that shukshin shot in altai, but it’s amazing that in this film, if you remember, bella akhmadulina plays, where is shukshin and where is bella akhmadulina, but nevertheless, they saw each other, something. very important, they reached out to each other as incredibly talented people, this is shukshin’s ability to find talented people, surround himself with talented people, this is also such an incredibly precious quality of his nature, but then shukshin’s cinematic fate,
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it stalled a little, the second film that he he films, again based on his own works, this is also important, but shukshin never took other people’s scripts, he always... used his own texts, his own plots, his own characters, this is the second film he’s making, your son’s brother, but it didn’t have such a good release, didn’t have such a good fate as the first film. the third film, which is called strange people, and which, from my point of view, is certainly the pinnacle in shukshin’s work, unfortunately, failed. the audience left him, and there was such a moment in vasily belov’s memoirs about how he and shukshin once went to the cinema. just to see strange people in vologda, and people left, people left, for it was incredibly difficult for shukshin, but he did not blame anyone but himself for this departure. he will then write an article with the following words: tie yourself in a knot, but don’t shout in
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an empty hall, and shukshin makes a very important conclusion for himself that we need to make people’s cinema, we need to make a film that is understandable to everyone, which is why he changes his style so dramatically. his next film turns out to be a picture of a bench stove, a picture that was shot in a completely different way, it really was a wonderful film, but a very smart, very subtle, very ironic film, which is true had a hard time going through censorship, a film that was not liked by the local authorities in altai, who wanted the altai land to be depicted differently, but nevertheless it was an absolutely... wonderful picture, which brought shukshin enormous fame, but not hers he considered the main film of his life, and not even the film kalina krasnaya, which would be shot soon after the stoves of the benches, a film that, due to such a tragic fate of shukshin, would be the last
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in his life, the fact is that the main picture of his life, the main film of his life , shukshin was never able to make it, but his main film was dedicated to stepan razin, and for shokshin it was really through... their son altai and vologda, they were really very friends, they are walking through the northern forest near the village where belov lived - this is the north of the vologda region, and there they are not afraid to speak openly, and shukshin tells belov that he wants to make a film about the zone, about the camp, about how prisoners organize an escape. it is clear that a book could be written about this, but it was impossible to make a film about it, and the main thing... as if the main thing the hero for him turns out to be stepan razin and shukshin decided to make a film
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called, i came to give you freedom, so the theme of will itself becomes key for him, but when he wrote the script for this film, when he brought it for discussion at film studio, then they told him, you want to make a film about the russian rebellion, it won’t work, and what did shuksha do? he went to the very top, you don’t want to come to an agreement with me, so i’ll go to the very top, he went to a member of the politburo on the old square, and pavel dimichev, who oversaw the politburo questions of culture, and he charmed him and got dimichev to allow him to shoot the film, i came to give you freedom and shukshin already began to prepare for this filming, went to astrakhan, went to the moscow pechersk monastery, and then to turaya. studied, put on his make-up himself, he himself realized that he would play the main role, he would play stepan
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razin, in general, preparations were already underway for the filming of this film, but then a very curious plot twist followed, which was connected with the fact that when the idea this film, the script for this film, the project for this film gorky's studio was discussed, since shukshin worked at this studio, and shot his films at this studio, it was there that the discussion took place, then the great soviet directors, tatyana lioznova. stanislav rostotsky, they rebelled against this shukshin film. for reasons that we all understand today. shukshin's painting was too expensive. and therefore, if the studio had launched it, then other filmmakers simply would not have received the money. and then shukshin goes to the massfil film studio. and the massfil film studio, unlike the studio igorkova was richer, there were slightly different financial opportunities, even many different financial opportunities, and shukshin was offered yes. well, we will give you the opportunity to make such a film, especially
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since the good already existed, was given, but first make us a picture with a slightly higher budget, just like that, thanks to this coincidence of circumstances , the brilliant film by shukshin kalina krasnaya appeared, a film that became his repentance to his mother and, in fact, to the village. yes, we continue, this is the life of the remarkable podcast. i am with you, alexey varlamov, and today we are talking about vasily shukshin. shukshin was sure that now, after the success of kalina krasnaya, he would finally realize his dream of making the main movie of his life, the film i came to give you free rein about stepan razin. but bondarchuk, yes, sergei bondarchuk, our famous film director, who generally led the mass film studio and from whom. a lot depended, and he asked shukshin that before you, vasya, launch your new
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film, star in my film, they fought for their homeland, and for shukshin this is in general, it was difficult, difficult, because he played one of the main roles, and the film was shot in very difficult conditions, in the don steppes, and in the hot summer, but he could not refuse bandarchuk, in addition, there is such a version that... after all, shukshin wanted to gain experience as a director, the film, they fought for their homeland, was the same as the film that shukshin conceived, but such a battle canvas, so experience in such a film would also be important for him, in any case, he plays in this film, and in the fall of 1974, on october 2, 74, he found dead in the cabin of the danube ship, it was such a floating hotel where the actors lived, it was there that he died after filming ended, the debate about
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what it was, in such a metaphysical sense of the word, still does not subside, well, that’s what the block said about pushkin , yes, that pushkin was killed by a lack of air, one can say that, of course, shukshina was also killed by a kind of lack of air, because he went to this picture for too long, there were too many obstacles, it was too hard to give him. love for shakshin turned out to be huge, moscow has never seen such a funeral as shakshin’s, probably more modern than yesenin’s funeral, and what i also want to say about shukshin is still a little about why he succeeded in all this, because in shukshin’s history lies there is a lot of instructive and didactic, so
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to speak, look, when shukshin was still a very young man, when he studied in biysk. at the automotive technical school , the following story happened: bisk is located on the biya river, along this biya a barge was sailing, which was transporting cheese, and this barge collided with stones, crashed, drowned, went to the bottom along with this cheese. it was the month of november, and the boys, knowing this, dived into biya and got this cheese. it was very difficult to do because it was deep there, because the current was fast, because the river was cold. and so... shukshin’s classmate writes that we still dived and then had a small feast like this on the shore. there is a similar plot in shukshin’s stories; he has a short story called cheese. there's the same one the plot, the same setting, the baja floated, crashed, cheese, cold water, they dived, but
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then shukshin writes like this, those who dived took out the cheese and ate. i didn’t dive, period, that’s how it seems to me, here was the most important lesson for him, so he, as if he didn’t dive then, he set this goal for himself, if you didn’t dive, you’re the only one to blame for this, and without diving then, he will survive later, will survive as a great writer, i didn’t have time to talk about this, but shubshin’s stories, shupshin’s literary fate, this is absolutely a separate amazing story, an acting destiny. shukshin, director's fate of shukshin. a person, but the most important thing about him is that above of course, this is some kind of amazing, wonderful professional calling, he was really a man with some kind of, well, amazing huge conscience, he really was sick of russia, he lived in russia, he constantly thought about russia, shukshin kept
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such notes and in these notes he has the following words: not now, no, it is important to break through to the future russia, whether we broke through to this future russia or not, that’s the question, to which we should answer, and not him, and he is buried at the novodevichy cemetery, it is also very important that every year on july 25, on his birthday, tens of thousands of people have gathered near the shukshin monument for many, many years, there is a wonderful monument of work vyacheslav. where shukshin is depicted as the hero of his own film pechki-lavochki, remember when he says at the very end, that ’s it, guys, it’s the end, in his diary entries in his letters he has the following phrase: this is not the end, it seems to me that shakshin’s story - this is truly an endless story and there will never be an end to it. thank you, this
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was a podcast about the life of the wonderful, with you its host, writer alexey varlamov. hello, dear friends, my name is dmitry bak, right here we have the next episode of our literary podcast, which, as you, of course, remember, is called let them not speak, let them read, today we are talking about a man who is all about quotes , he is recognizable, his spirit is recognizable, his lines are recognizable, guests gathered at the dacha, flower withered, earless, forgotten in the book, i see, well, i’m citing more and more famous examples, because you already guessed that we are talking about alexander sergeevich pushkin this year marks 225 years since the moment
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when his earthly journey began, and his... the eternal path, the spiritual path will continue to last forever, we are talking about pushkin and we are talking today with a guest who does not need any additional introductions, because this is sergei vitalievich bezrukov, sergei, hello, i’m very glad to see you, and we let's try to talk about an obvious topic, well , pushkin somehow comes to each of us, sometime it happens, yes, how it has happened to you, since childhood, literally, tell me. although the work is quite mature , after all, if we take it from such a pugachev rebellion, it is probably for adults, and nevertheless , already in the eighth grade, the concept of honor and dignity, take care of honor from a young age from the eighth
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grade, and of course, dubrovsky is everything, as a matter of fact, what was it like in your family, in the library, well, of course, fairy tales, well , first of all, of course, fairy tales, fairy tales, although fairy tales were written in adulthood, if we talk about fairy tales, then he is by no means. he was not young, although pushkin is still 37 years old for me, what is 37 years old, from the perspective of your age, you think, 37 years old, some, 37 years old, well , let’s say, the cockerel wrote about the golden one in thirty-four, that is, to him i was 35 years old, a golden cockerel, well, is this for children or not, it’s not really, well, of course, pushkin actually has that very depth when it’s impossible to reach the bottom, when you’re just drowning and drowning in knowledge,
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dude, but shamakhan, shamakhan queen too, and the city, shamakhi, yes, where, so to speak, the eunuchs were exiled, these are also such interesting facts that, in principle , you never even thought about it, didn’t even imagine what it was, and this is all pushkin, this is all pushkin , i think it’s no coincidence, although he says that he stole the plot from the alhamra, but he stole it. what does it mean, what does it mean, he stole, gentlemen, he didn’t steal, no, he just borrowed the very beginning, but then all the meanings that he put into them, they are absolutely his, they are
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unique, and this is pushkin, please tell me, and what texts, well, in particular, a trivial question, which you cannot live without, everyone has them, i have , maybe some poems, maybe some lines, i just said the first thing, what came to mind, but the guests were heading to the dacha, from what did he grow up, as we know, but what? you, well , i understand that it’s strange to ask sergei bezrukov about this, you played pushkin, yes, well, probably this is already at a more mature age, it certainly becomes like this, you know, like something that gets into you, it’s always necessary here read pushkin and understand that something gets into you, from something you have already grown, and something is directly yours, absolutely yours, extinguish the crazy years, have fun, it’s hard for me, vague hangovers, but like wine, the sadness of the past days in my soul, the stronger they become, my path is dull, tedious work and the grief of the coming into the troubled
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sea, but i don’t want to die from another, i want to live in order to think and suffer, and i know that i will have pleasures between sorrows and labors excitement, sometimes the harmonies will be drunk again, the fiction will be covered with tears, and maybe on my sunset is sad, love will flash, forgiving with a smile, my god, how great it is in your performance, and in general how great it is, you know, i really like the sound, i don’t know whether you thought about it or not, or maybe it’s just me who sees it , rough sea, it seems to me terribly that this is your imagination, the rough sea is already beginning. the language does not become obsolete, on the contrary, he
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invented this language for us, he came up with it, well, of course, in many ways we are beginning to replace those same great ones, the great russian language, still we must pay tribute to the fact that june 6 is not celebrated not only the anniversary, but also the international day of the russian language, in our time this is even more relevant, of course we are beginning to replace in many ways, i don’t know what to replace. image, image, i don’t know, there’s a creative, artistic, presentation, i don’t know, even a basic volunteer, we take french instead of simply saying volunteer, so unfortunately, of course, we are replacing a lot of people now, especially among young people like here are the replacements of the great russian language, especially since the time of alexandrovich pushkin, they are together with dahl, they are our museum named after dahl, so yes, the very first dictionary can. some words are already becoming
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incomprehensible to, say, vanegina, well, yes, yes, this is an encyclopedia of russian life, but this encyclopedia, without a special dictionary to understand some of the words, is already flying from kelga vaskova for field tribute, there is a whole depth, that is, a cell , bee, monk, yes, no, this, this is exactly the same figuratively, and the field tribute is some kind of foreign person who the bee takes root in the light, right? like the land invader who takes tribute, my god, how much is hidden there, but you’re right, that same depth, pushkin, generally speaking, you know, let’s still remember how careful people are without a smile, without a grammatical error, i don’t like russian speech, it’s not for nothing that the block said , the cheerful name pushkin, he somehow retains not edifying, but some kind of lightness, naturalness, pushkin, despite the fact that this is really our everything, even during his lifetime, this attitude towards pushkin, of course
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and... his uniqueness was certainly recognized during his lifetime, but nevertheless he was so easy to communicate with, so democratic, as already said, democratic, there was no pompousness, arrogance or playing at being a genius in this, we certainly don’t know, we can also judge from memories, like many pushkinists, from memories, of course, from letters, from memories. contemporaries, of course, i really want, sometimes i really want, of course, to be transported back in time like this and have at least a glimpse, to see how alive he was, because according to the memories his character was absolutely mercurial, when his mood changed in a second, temperament, and it’s not easy, it’s not just temperament, it’s sometimes even rage, outbursts of rage, and melancholy, and at the same time laughter, so i want to hear pushkin’s laugh,
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because they say that he was so infectious that... it was impossible not to respond, he laughed so contagiously, friends, sergei bezrukov says something important i want to listen to, at least pushkin is an encyclopedia of emotions, besides, he has different emotions, and he reaches some meaningful limit in each and it's easy does, moreover, i’ll say now it may be such a drastic thing, but if we allow us to take the complete collected works, including all the letters, although i believe that everything, absolutely everything by pushkin should be read only by an advanced diver who knows pushkin, then they are allowed to read letters without any cuts and even with profanity, which, in principle, pushkin had and you can’t take these words out of the song, it really happened, but someone can’t, he can, but pushkin can, you even read, you can’t even hear believe yours
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you can't when they say it. you know, in the letter it was written like this, when let’s say, we know alexandravich’s brilliant poem dedicated to kern, i remember a wonderful moment, and then right there in the letter he writes, i think he wrote to delvig, yesterday with god’s help, and you don’t understand, how it combines, well, it combines absolutely brilliantly, there is no insult in it, there is no, you know, some kind of, you know, darling thing that sometimes. found in the scruples of many great people, and you relate to this disgusted, there is no disgust here, there is no humiliation here, there is no, this is a subtle feeling that can be - comparable to passion, to the flesh, but no, i don’t value it, this is the delight of feelings, madness, walls, screams of a young vocalist, when you get stuck
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, flog them. passionate, simple, accessible, at the same time inaccessible to understanding, because it is impossible to reach the depths, this very bottom is impossible to reach, because the depth is impossible, impossible, just to feel it, even as far as you open each once new, pushkin, different pushkin, this...
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when he talks about nikolai pavlovich’s attitude towards natalia goncharova, natalya pushkina, so the relationship is very complex. relationships, difficult relationships, moreover, of course, the offended feeling of pushkin’s cadet chamber, although, as they say, i don’t know, in muzhikovsky he also said that it was not an insult, on the contrary, it was a chance, it was a chance to communicate directly, because of course not, not to mention directly, directly communicate with the sovereign, directly communicate with the sovereign, moreover, and efficient advice and... well, how can i say, sharing my experience, that is, this is direct contact, which was impossible without a certain formality, which, of course, but it is clear that for me, as a person who, as an actor, who naturally accepts emotions and feelings
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, the hero you play, then of course for me it was an insult, still a chamber cadet at 30 years old, this is a title worthy of young people just starting their court career, humiliated so humiliated, the uniform suits you like pushkin in it. .. took the side here absolutely patriotic on the side of the state, what are you making a fuss about, people, because why are you threatening anathemas in russia, now this poem is scattered into quotes and there is a complete feeling that it was written just the other day, although this is
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alexandrich pushkin, and it was written then, and he had a fight with adam mickiewicz, with whom we were friends, but his position was sincere, and he is broader than any definition, because well, he’s a full-fledged thinker, yes, this is all there, but there are... fathers, hermits and immaculate wives to fly with their hearts into absenteeism , to to strengthen his trail of long storms and battles , many divine prayers have been composed, but not one of them strengthens me, like the one that the priest repeats during the sad days of lent, here is an atheist, and for a long time i will be so dear to me to the people that the feeling of the good lyre awakened that my cruel age, i glorified freedom and mercy for the scabby, this is development, horace taught.
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between an ordinary person and power, between the state and the individual, here is my monument, my monument is the role of a high intermediary , not only lines, not only poetry, this, and this happened only after the meeting with the emperor in 26, which you spoke about, and at the coronation, too, the artist’s truth, praise, slander, and indifference were accepted. stopping the kings from fighting with each other and it’s not enough for me to be free or the press to fool the tolakhs or sensitive censorship in magazine plans humbles the joker, all this is a knower of words, words,
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words, other rights that are better for me, i need another better freedom, an attitude towards my own life reading my life with disgust, i tremble and... curse and complain bitterly and shed bitter tears, but in this pushkin’s honesty, but i’m not strictly sad, it’s great that you and i agree on this, probably all russian-cultured people, no matter who they are, by blood, live like this, yes, they live inside pushkin, because it’s true, alexander sergeevich is like us since it unites everyone, because the attitude towards him, moreover from a liberal audience or i don’t know, patriots, in this sense pushkin reconciled everyone, and... in his way of relating to his friends, lyceum students, yeah, whom fate is so merciless practically destroyed in siberia, this is also a special side of pushkin’s life, for me to be friends, yes, delvik, yes,
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my god, this is, of course, a fantastic attitude towards friends and the ability to be friends, indeed, he knew how, knew and valued friendship, this is of course also rare quality of creation. but the legends and secrets that in one way or another surround the image of alexander sergeevich, and even more so his death, who is still breaking so many spears about his death and burial, in this case i am also restless in this regard, i don’t know, what really is and how and the ending, i don’t know, we hardly know, we could probably ask geichenko what he saw, yes, but he will never tell. although i think that we could try, but then, i think that there are
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still many secrets that we will never know, moreover, we will never know the whole story of paskveli to the end, we will have a huge number of versions, from the vids politicians, i don’t know, before such an action was simply planned, but they framed them, who framed them on purpose, how much? version again, actually related, again, if lonskoy was on on the clock, when cavaliergard dantes was there, he had a date with anatalya, cavaliergard dantes and colonel lonskoy were on the clock, of course , questions arise here, wait, colonel, he is a colonel in rank much higher than some cavalryguard on the clock, that is - now they say it, the colonel stood on guard, on watch. colonel colonel, when meeting with natalie, stood colonel lonskoy,
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who later became her husband in the future, how many, how many secrets, why, who it was, maybe not dontes, maybe even the sovereign, but then they just played the card, it was necessary to save irinome and they framed, well , here you go, the envoy was framed by dantes, who, in fact, also, well... there are rumors and all the correspondence was also far from relationships with women in this case, but no one here anymore will never know the truth. in the middle of our program there is a section of the presenter, and it will be today, even taking into account the fact that our interlocutor is sergei bezrukov, nevertheless, nevertheless, this section will be very small, very short, i have - you remember, in my hands or a quote from poetry , either a quote from... prose, or an old book from my library, well, today it’s an old book,
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it’s so shabby, i checked this book from 1887, this is an edition of the work of alexander sergeevich, these are just dramatic works for the stage, but really they’re not very scenic, yes, they were staged much later, by boris godunov, small tragedies, absolutely brilliant texts, but it is important that this is a so-called cheap series that was published... by the man who published chekhov, but the date is very symbolic, because let’s not forget that pushkin also has such a line, inspiration is not for sale, but you can sell the manuscript, he is the first professional, this date is the year eighty-seven, it is very symbolic, because it was 50 years after pushkin’s death that copyright rights disappeared, that is... it became public accessible literature, it is according to
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pushkin that copyright measures its beginning, it was in 87, 50 years after pushkin’s death, that cheap publications became possible, that’s how strange it is, the economy and accessibility of pushkin are combined, these are these publications, here the second edition is already, i’m saving this book, i’ve had it since my student years, and one can imagine that it became accessible to people of the simplest rank, literate people... which played a very important role in
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