hello, this is a psyche podcast, today we will talk about how to build a life, to be happy, even in a situation where , well, let’s say, such violence happened in my childhood and, unfortunately, our today’s heroine, elena, experienced this experience distorted and complicated her entire future life, but we will try to find the path to happiness and joy, which i personally believe, it is still possible, with psychologist tatyana galich, we will try to do this.

hello irena, i won’t traumatize you by asking you for details. what happened, let us tell you , we will probably talk about what has been preventing you from living your life since then, how you articulate it to yourself, what difficulties arose in your personal life, and how you tried to deal with it, with the consequences of this monstrous experience . well, first of all, this feeling of some kind of guilt, it’s just, it ’s probably still there, although i’ve worked through it, i explained it to myself, i listened to a lot of videos, i talked to people, there’s some kind of feeling of such guilt, that i’m wrong, it’s my own fault that this happened to me, it’s on me as if some heavy blanket or... coat or something was smeared with some kind of

paint, that i had no right to approach society, then later, well, this was in childhood, that is, there was a kindergarten, a school, and then, when i was already at music school, in principle, somehow i could get closer to people, communicate, i sometimes watched how girls communicate, at school i couldn’t, how do girls communicate , try to communicate as well, that is, new people walked contact, but after a day or two weeks, they somehow also pulled away, i i think why it was easier at the music school, because i had a musical education, due to the fact that i played better, heard better, wrote better musical dictations in salf, everyone writes there for 10-15 minutes, i write for a few seconds, i have less minutes. if it’s more minutes, i’m bad, if it’s less than

minutes, i quickly ask, because of this , i was somehow noticed by society, and the girls consulted there, they came up to help, but at some general girls’ parties, for example, they didn’t take me, and i wasn't interested, i i didn’t understand, uh, where you need to be happy, where you need to do what, somehow i was also detached, and seeing how people, let’s say, ah... can communicate without a topic, that is, sit down at some table, yes, some kind of party, and it’s just somehow easy to communicate, i sat at these parties, ate something, shared something with someone, but never, well, i was so kind of withdrawn, as if in my own there was always such an autistic something living in the world, elena, but at the same time you got married, i think you have three children, three, well, that is after all. this experience, it still

allowed you to arrange your personal life, well , yes, i tried to copy the behavior of other people, women, girls that i liked, sometimes i even could, that is , as if you were not living your own life, yes, that’s it how and how did you live salfeggio, music, this is my life, i can talk for hours, you can’t stop me, i have no barriers, i have no complexes, i can talk, talk only but here, in life? let’s say i’m with my first husband, but i actually played the image is not the same, here we are, we have a marriage along with our meeting plus marriage in total there complexity 3 years e i was you played some kind of role , that is, a party girl i could walk barefoot barbat there a man needs this, what would you like to change in your life, what would you like to ask a psychologist about today? “i still

haven’t learned, now, to communicate with men without fear, due to my age, when i can calmly look at myself in the mirror now , by the way, age reassures me that here is a grandmother, about to retire, you’re great, you ’ve lived, you’re good look, i look in the mirror, what i see in the mirror is not a girl, not because when i communicate with men, if i feel some kind of message of sexual relations, some kind of advances, because due to age, when people are already over fifty, there are no foreplays, there are such things as yes, maybe i can shoot a number something like that so... i start scanning so that there are no

movements towards the belt, if there is any movement in the belt, even a man will adjust the belt, i immediately want to run very quickly, hide in a corner, hug. sit, now, what would you like to change? well, first of all, change the relationship mine, k, now, maybe some water, no, now my attitude towards people in general is different, because it seems to me that i’m still at that age, it jumps out. regardless, you are still in danger from the place, it’s somehow, well , uncomfortable, terrible, because even due to my age, i can’t, let’s say, cry without consequences, it’s a surge in pressure, it’s my hands sweating, it starts, it’s uncomfortable for me ,

and this is stupid, because adults they are, well , not so whiny, i would also like, firstly, i have... three children, two girls, and i really wanted in my children, girls, firstly, to protect them from this strange world, which can be kind, or can turn out so wrong that god forbid, so i can see that i have children now, they are already grown up, my girls there are 30 years old and the youngest are 19, so literally yesterday i was talking about what mom, are you at all? you are raising us incorrectly, you yourself are traumatized, and you are traumatizing us by the fact that you talk about sex with us very, very early, i say, well, well, it’s better earlier than, and i’m all very veiled, as it seemed to me

, it conveyed to the children that if you don’t feel something right, just yell, scream, attract passers- by, bite, i don’t know, do something and so on, so that even if, even if... your daughter is mistaken in this behavior, that no one wanted to disturb your virginity or some kind of honor, it’s better to re-pere, well, play it safe, they will forgive you later, write it off to your age, to some kind of female hysteria, but to remain intact, i want now contact our psychologist, tatyana, well, i immediately saw such whole there are a lot of problems with questions, but i read a lot - studies and diaries of psychologists who worked with children with adults who experienced violence in childhood and there are completely different methods and approaches, some work to completely replace this memory, some - something to rethink the experience,

but here you and i see, of course, such a generally severe trauma and unprocessed, apparently in time, but what to do in such a situation, i understand that, unfortunately. sometimes it may not even be expressed , there is some kind of traumatic encroachment there is a direct action, but with what and from what suffering comes, from neglect, defenselessness, you know, the fact is that it is this defenselessness that gives us

this very severe trauma, which is what we always talk about in general recommendations , well , it’s clear, yes, that you can’t be left alone with this, but you need to talk about it, you need to somehow find your circle with whom you can do all this. tell, and if we are already talking, you know, we are adults, we can do a lot, when i am a child, i can’t do anything, when i’m an adult, i can do a lot, and we can restructure our... the consequence is the loss of the security of the world, that’s what you’re talking about, the main thing is that the world is somehow completely unsafe, yes, at the same time, here you seem to even say that it’s wonderful that you raised children in this, in some kind of system that’s a little different, but it was such an effort on yourself, it was, i can imagine what kind of constant anxiety it was, so when you talk about getting to know each other with men, it’s as if you don’t see safe men. that is, you see, not everyone needs to go to a hotel right away, it sounds strange at 20 years old, at 30, at 40, well, well,

this is just a certain type of man with whom, in general, in theory, you don’t need to contact, but i attract, it seems to me , i even had some moments such that it seemed to me that i was carrying the image of some kind of sacrifice on myself, someone, a certain type of man , for some reason sees this in the form of me and is attracted to me and i just can’t but the point is not even that you attract, it’s that you highlight them, you know. what they look like, 30 people might come up to you, you see, there are 7 billion of us, yes, a man constantly walks past you, you are a very bright woman, you constantly communicate, but, but we send some signals, if a man comes up to you and it’s like, here he is, well outside of this type, he behaves differently, he looks different, it’s as if he doesn’t exist for you, that is, selena doesn’t even seem to read this man on her radar, although perhaps they appear every day. yes , and we would be glad, we would be glad to just go for a quiet walk, drink coffee, yes, because

you know, again, age, like you say, yes, this is such a safe enough space, not everyone here needs so much of this intimacy, more attention, on intellectual closeness, on some kind of romance, on how to somehow start making good friends, communicating, well , this happened to her before, when i was 30 years old, and even 20, it’s like a consequence of this trauma, which i’m very good at. therefore, it is very important to start with the fact that to shift the filters, that the world is generally safe, as adults we can do this to ourselves, it does not happen that a person was in your life, now he disappears, even if he dies, in this girl you hardly recognize the child who 5 years ago lost the most precious thing. mother, i don’t think that i am without her, i have a pile of memories, but this is

my mother, yulia nachalova died very young, at 38, leaving her beloved daughter, vera, to her parents and ex-husband. i said that, unfortunately, i have very difficult news for you, that mom is no longer with us, what he experienced at that moment, that evening, only he knows, it’s a big responsibility to tell your child that his mother passed away. how did you cope with this loss?

this is a psychic podcast and today we are talking about sexualized violence and its victims, there is such a very good technique, yes, when anxiety begins to grow, you have a wonderful niche where you are the queen, i can’t say it any other way, well, just queen, you look completely different, your body is different.

which lives, flourishes, achieves, in general, yes, maintaining this female appearance is precisely the achievement of this part, look, we have a part traumatized, there is a survivor, and there is always a healthy one, your task now is to learn to live with the healthy part that you have, just shift the focus of attention a little, we cannot cover up the trauma, it happened, yes, well, i made such an explanation for myself, i apologize , i interrupt that well, i didn’t come up with this myself, i listened to

people say it, i listened, i’m kind of like the last ones for myself, how many? a picture of the world that everything that happened to me is not my problem, it is the problem of a person who is mentally ill, that this is not mine, i am for it i don’t answer, it was, well, such a funny , stupid experience, this is the problem of that person, you know why, why i intervene, you know, i... read a monograph by an american psychotherapist who just worked with such women, what struck me, they all, when they talked about themselves, they spoke exactly the same words with a translation discount that elena said today, i’m dirty, i’m unworthy, i don’t deserve a relationship, i don’t

deserve to communicate with either boys or girls, i’m not normal . and i don't fit in into this world, yes, that is, i’m not like that, i’m bad , i’m guilty, i’m dirty, i’m guilty, this little child, against whom a crime is happening, is left with the feeling that he is guilty, so now these were simply priceless for me your words, as i understand it, elena took a step, yes, i worked a lot on this, yes, when she began to say that it was not my fault, he was the one who shouldn’t do it, that’s... how should anyone really help a woman rethink this experience to remove from yourself this disgusting monstrous feeling of guilt for which, of course, is not your fault. in general , it is desirable for outside specialists to help, maybe psychologists, i don’t know, if this is a religious family, but people there are included in the religious community, some

consultants, some friends, why, because in fact, how many children they don’t talk about it and...

i won’t talk about it ever again, thank you for talking about this with my mother, now she’s 80 years old, she’s in italy, i have a sister, we’re 10 years apart, all sorts of stuff, bottles, basically she doesn't know what

happened to me, i never told, i thought. immediately all this begins to be perceived differently, support immediately comes, that is, because it seems to us that this is my unique case, this has never happened to anyone else, so i’m sure when... you said about the girls in the class, and every other one , just from my experience, yes, this is something to some extent, maybe not so often, but something happened there from relatives, there

just on the street, so from high school students, and this is such a common phenomenon, especially like this now we have started to actively talk about it, thank god, it is thanks to the fact that we started talking that it will be restored, in our generation it’s just like some kind of norm. tatyana’s behavior was like this, well, look, if this happened, for example, to a teenage child, and where should the teenager go, to the school psychologist, to the mother, well, first of all, the children are afraid, these girls are afraid, what the mother or psychologist will say , you put on a short skirt, but here’s a common formula, i went where i shouldn’t have walked, for example, another fear, i i know him for sure from...

and retraumatization, even from this very acute reaction and sympathy, when my mother suddenly begins to fight in hysterics, and somehow my poor thing is dragging through the test, where, in general, to put it mildly, such a procedure, and we are even more traumatized by this, and even adults are traumatized by this even more, i’m not talking about a child, a small one, that’s why we have helplines, there are closed, as it were , anonymous communities on the internet, anonymous groups where you can come and talk , this is simple definitely a must do and yes. unfortunately, yes, the institute of school psychologists, everything is not always so good there, but the problem is objective, with all due respect to colleagues, but sometimes it happens, yes, sometimes it’s just there

without their participation, in such cases , again, well sometimes children hide it, girls hide it simply because they love their mother very much, they understand that if mom finds out now, she won’t survive, she will die, dad will go and kill someone, dad will be imprisoned, this goes through a child’s head very quickly. this is a psych podcast, and today we are talking about sexualized violence and its victims. how parents can talk to their child in advance. i understand that , of course, for most of us parents it’s scary to open our mouths on this topic, we seem to be mystically afraid of bringing some kind of trouble onto our child’s head, even allowing it to happen without...

touching without your permission, yes, yes, that’s it starting from the very first years there from kindergarten, not to mention the tests, and even when we ourselves are with the child, and we are , as it were, from a certain age, excuse me, we’re not getting into his pants anymore, yes , he washes himself, that is, he’s been there for 3 years, when he corrects himself in the bathroom, girl, boy, he’s already there himself anyway, because he must understand that his body - this is only his body, and even parents, in general, cannot have any kind of access there without permission, if we... tell, unfortunately, all these things, what are you screaming there , do something there, run, why can this be completely useless, because children growing up in in a normal environment, they experience such a shock

in which they simply can’t, they can’t run, they can’t scream, and the maximum is that yes, such a stupor is a state of complete stupor, there is complete muteness, then they will still feel guilty for this, that i should, but there is such a state of shock there, there are adults there. but it sounds like hopelessness, my friends, or do we actually have some kind of completeness of information that children and teenagers have today - this is a huge benefit, the media, the internet has a very competent policy in terms of sex education, as if there was a lot of content on this topic, how to behave, this heavy burden has been lifted from us, because in general, it’s really not clear how to break the fast.

they know, at an early age, they receive it, they view it, popular bloggers talk about it, thank god, in this regard we have a huge breakthrough, which depends on parents, our task is to always be stable, accessible, warm for children so that no matter what happens, the child understands that i can come home, i can come to my mom, to my dad, they won’t die, they won’t run there as if to kill someone now, but they will help me, well, maybe there will be some negative moment there at first.

i forgave everyone, i understood everything, all this doesn’t matter, just communicate with her - like with my sister, so what can you advise, what do you see as obstacles, what do you see as problems here, well , they think that i’m some kind of person for them, well many relatives, like dirty, well, for some reason, don’t want to communicate with me, so as not to incur a feeling of trauma from my guilt. and i i don’t know how to somehow communicate without being forced, well, in general, i need to help me somehow, suggest how i can communicate not even with my mother, with my sister, what is the purpose of this communication, what do you want, the goal is to maintain the illusion of what for my children, that you can and should try to talk with your relatives. so that

children need this? you have a wonderful family, yes, your family is your children, they are there, as if i didn’t tell my mother something, i didn’t finish telling something, i didn’t tell it right, you must first understand, yes, that i really didn’t finish, i didn’t tell them what i wanted, i didn’t tell my sister what happened before the birth, what’s going on with us?

than to say why this makes sense, i have a point, it seems to me that elena wants to reach out to her still living mother and to her younger sister, about how painful it was, about how scary it was, and about the fact that it’s not her fault, well, i really don’t know, tatyana, whether this will help her, it doesn’t help, you know, any person, it’s very important for him to consider himself good. and as soon as you start , just appear again in their life, yes you they are undermining this concept of theirs there is an idea of ​​themselves so there will be resistance well these are rare if they were capable of some kind of comprehension there wisdom acceptance they would have already appeared in your life yes the period is long enough i don’t think that you are like -then you hide from people there , as it turns out, if it doesn’t work out, then try it if it makes you feel better, but

in reality there’s no need here, well, as if you need your expectations, well, yes, what am i even waiting for, just imagine it there as a picture, like i imagine, that we will sit at the same table, drink tea, there will be some goodies, and we will just talk about the weather, at least, and there will be no innuendos, aggression, negativity, something neutral, even if it is illusory, well, feigned, well, it won’t be true , you know that children in orphanages who were abandoned by their mother, yes, they have the same illusion. that my mother is kind, good, she just didn’t understand something, if now i come to her and tell her that look how great i’ve grown up, look how great i am, look, i have my own family, i have achieved a lot, mom, suddenly something is there, some gears will fall into place, and we will suddenly find ourselves in some magical reality, where this table is set, where these delicacies stand, where we drink tea, if this family was never capable of in life, and what will come from where, you and i cannot

change the past, right? but is it possible for us to still live in the present and the future? i have one more question from tatyana, which very often the families of such children who have become victims ask themselves, and... probably victims, do i need to go to the police, write a statement and seek punishment? oh, a very difficult question, you need to think very carefully to understand in general, yes, what happened, this is a very traumatic process, very difficult, traumatic, the criminal must be punished, so again, i’m not saying that this should not be done, this cannot be hushed up , but here you need to prepare very well, how to do it right away, right? we kind of take, well , you understand, that is, they usually run to the police first, yes, that is, as if here, but we still start by going to medical examination, that is , we collect everything for medical examination, but it is desirable that it is not some kind of i don’t know, there is

a district clinic, it’s still good, why am i not against it, so that it’s done carefully, delicately, so as not it was, well, everyone generally understands, yes, that sometimes just going to a local gynecologist for... a woman ends up being traumatic for the next few weeks there, and not to mention here, when everything is right there, and being there is a must it's time for everyone to unite when we clean it up as much as possible some emotions, but we are just solving this problem now, we support, then then we immediately, if possible, somehow take advice from a lawyer, again, now there are many public organizations, many public organizations, we contact everywhere as much as possible, that is we first create this field of support for ourselves.

yes, it doesn’t sound strong there, because, but at this moment the mothers’ world will also collapse, so i also thought about this now, that for parents this is a monstrous trauma, this is pain, yes, that’s where the feeling of guilt comes in full force it gets up, yes, among prosperous parents, in responsible families, this kind of uh-huh, god forbid, happens, and it seems to me that when mom or dad concentrates on how to help the child, yes, how to protect the child , punish the criminal, help.

the area has closed further, yes, we are going to the next one, right up to the legend of the eye. well, friends, today we touched upon heavy material, the relevance of which, let’s say, is undeniable, it’s probably always been this way, in the case of sexualized violence, we have known since ancient times, but glory god, we're talking about this today. openly, professionally, deeply, considering all aspects, because the past cannot be changed, but there is a present, there is a future, and it’s great if not only the person who is in trouble, but

the whole society can unite, concentrate on helping the victim, make sure that life was still joyful and happy. i am grateful to our today's heroine for... her courage and openness to talk about this rather difficult, but necessary for understanding the situation. this is the psyche podcast, all episodes you can watch our podcast on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru, it’s very cool, you can’t hug me, it makes me cry, you can’t cry, tatyana and i ask you to... so that the skin, so as not to spoil the skin, you need to cry , well, it’s more pleasant

to end quickly and quickly. hello, this is a podcast 20 years later and we are its hosts konstantin mikhailov and alexandratolyevich, today we have a wonderful guest who we are so pleased to welcome. her performances of his songs and bulato are performed this year. 100 years old, it seems to me that you are the most

i was a traveling artist, that is , i traveled to more than 30 countries, i was very popular, in the eighties i received a prize at the polish festivals, knowledge, the poles very rarely give this title to their own, when i was in the polish-lithuanian commonwealth, yeah, poland was consumed, russia and belarus, my ancestors on my father’s side defended poland from... the swedes for this they received titles of nobility, and then they came here, and my grandfather konstantin bichevsky, he served in the tsarist army, served as a cavalryman, modeled the tsar’s guard there was a shelf. i know you and your father had difficult relationship, your mother left, she left when you were five, yes, when my mother died at the age of 5, my father took me away from my family, and i was actually alone. with my father - on the reservation, but then

my stepmother came into my life, she was very good, but she could not protect me from my father’s monster. however, your father gave you your first guitar, in which, when i was 17 years old, he himself was a very very singing person, and he wanted me to play and sing with the guitar, which means that i would accompany him to sing my songs , well, there was such a personal interest, then i already taught guitar at a music school in zagorsk, in general, with a guitar at the school they called me zhanna. her life, all the things she takes on, she completely concentrates also with the guitar, i always had the feeling that, well, yes...

she had her own studio, she stretched out the tesitura for me, yeah, now i have almost five octaves, she brought many to tears, it is known, with her singing of romances, but what was it, this was some kind of special manners or the meaning of romances, because romances are, plus or minus, everything with with some very bad ending, the most difficult song genre is the romance, uh-huh, yes, because on the verge of vulgarity, on the verge of this ... overflow of this spiritual romance, romances

must be sung very strictly, restrained, in general, but i don’t know how to sing songs any other way, and you know, they really didn’t sound the same as they used to sing with tears, there with khlipovs, because this is very, so serious that they don’t talk much about love at all, about it and that's all said, but to convey it through... this is romance a deep feeling, this is only possible with god’s help, god helped me. but there was a carriage at the church, these are romances or a russian folk song, this is a russian folk song, i recorded it somewhere a long, long time ago in the village of nikipelovo, at my grandmother’s she was 86 years old, baba pavlina, she sang this song to me, from this song came to life for me. if anyone doesn't know, it's a lot. business not only abroad, but in our country, in the outback,

she collected russian folk songs, how did you get in touch, what did you travel on? on my own, i didn’t have money for tickets, i was a student at a similar school , and i saw its composition with sand, with pebbles, i crawled under somewhere with a guitar, i didn’t know where i was going, i stopped at some point, in general , in short, i traveled a lot, i even went as far as the urals, you know, everything was different. but everything was very interesting, and you know, i have to tell you, i thank the lord that god in my life, after my father, in general, such a monster, he sent me very good people, this gave me... just comforted , encouraged me in life and gave me and gave meaning to my life, and i realized that in life there are a lot more good people than bad, this is natural, and then i realized one more thing, this is purely philosophical, in life, i realized that what kind of person are you , he’s like that with you, but the thing is that sometimes

you stumble upon, you stumble upon such blackness that it’s even scary to enter it, you want to run away from this person. probably, the young bride felt the same blackness in her husband, well, the tragedy of the song, church language, yes, is that her young bride is given away for the old man, let's turn to this work then.

there was a carriage at the church; there was a magnificent wedding there. all the guests were smartly dressed, the bride was the most beautiful of all, all the guests were smartly dressed, the bride of all was beautiful, she was wearing white. the dress was too long, she looked at the holy crucifix through a rainbow of tears,

the wedding candles were burning, the bride. she became pale at the priest’s oath speech, she didn’t want to say anything, when the priest put a gold ring on her finger, out of her eyes... her bitter tears flowed warmly onto her face.

i heard the crowd talking. they are so unjumping, in vain, they killed the girl, and i went out after the crowd, a carriage was parked near the church, a magnificent one was dumped there. all the guests were smartly dressed, the bride was all beautiful, all the guests were smartly dressed, the bride was the most beautiful of all.

right at the junction of europe and asia, mountains and steppes , lies a blooming garden of eden. we are bashkirians, friends. bashker took several arrows into his mouth like this. you see, in combat, three more between the fingers, that’s how he shoots, also a machine gun, yeah, these

are the same relic ices, they are here formed when mammoths still roamed the earth, this echo is 25,000 years old, what diseases does this bath treat, starting with skin diseases, form-motor, nervous system, phew, life. their premiere is tomorrow on the first. we continue the conversation about music and life with zhanna bichevskaya and gennady ponomar. konstantin aleksandrovich mikhailov and alexander anatolyevich belonogov are still in the studio, can i say? first time. tell us how you met bulat makudzhava? oh, this, this, this is a separate song, it was in the house of writers, and before that i sang a song, it was a kujavy song, some kind of song. already bards and they brought me to bulat and put me in front of him, i say: hello, it’s me, i’m singing your songs, he

says what i’m saying, i’m zhana bichevskaya, i ’m singing your songs with a guitar, he says, yes, but interesting listen, and next to him stood his wife olga, a wonderful person, generally a beauty, i say, here i am, i can call you, he says, yes, of course, olya gave me a phone number from kudzhava, then time passed, i called him, he and i became friends, then met many times, gave me his a collection with...

kindness and divinity, because russia carried orthodoxy, and it was all included in these songs, it entered spiritually, they felt it,

you know, because just like that to love a song, which is impossible, this is, you know, faith it’s in the air, you know, i just need to grab this moment, catch it and say, yes, there is faith, there is god, that’s what it’s all about. in the original version.

the village has been burning for four days, the danish spring is flowing with rain, don’t lose heart, lieutenant golitsen karnet, abalensky naleytse vina karnet, valensky, pour some wine, we lead squadrons over the gloomy don, russia blesses us , lieutenant galitsen, distribute cartridges,

carnet obalensky. saddle, horse, cornet, o allensky, saddle the horse, the arbat is flashing, the sign of the elitsa, the rascal, the gypsy, flashes through dreams, everything will be fine, lieutenant. galitsen, for everything the commissars will receive in full, for everything the commissars will receive in full, but somewhere nearby , alas, troikas are rushing by, and we don’t know what

our fault is. paruchchyk galitsen, so budztse rack carnet, abalensky poured wine, cornet, abalensky pour of wine, oh russian sun, dry sun, already. we can’t change the course of the ship, lieutenant, golitsin, but maybe we’ll return, why do we need, buddy, a foreign land, why do we, buddy, need a foreign land, fourth.

the village is burning, the rains are sweating, the danish viasna is pouring out cartridges for everyone, for all the officers, putting on medals, for everyone to stop the decline of the rhone, very soon. border from all officers, but there is an order, when you traveled around the world, a beautiful russian girl, singing beautifully, wonderfully playing the guitar, probably just hundreds,

there were thousands of fans and no one... made an offer, there was never even any thought about how vladimir semenovich vysotsky married marina vladeya, the fact is that in the eighty-third year i came to omsk and met this absolutely miracle, and he is gennady panomariov, he worked at the omsk philharmonic, he himself is from the city of tola, he has been a fan of mine since 1974, the first disc that was released was from gennady, he came up to me and said that he sings. songs - they gave drink to the silver age, and i was fond of the song of the silver age, i said, well, let's it’s interesting to listen to this, he says, well, you know, these are songs, i say, i love poetry, just like i love reading, then we met in tula, i arrived in tula, somehow out of the blue, i had misha is such an administrator, i say, misha, let’s move the chair out of the blue, well

, when god leads, this is a bell, such a modest one, i say, oh, it’s, it’s you, he says, yes, it’s me, here, so we got to know each other better, he gave me his cassette of his song, i listened to it overnight, then took it to my concert, in some city there is culture, novomoskovsk in my opinion, yes, gena sang his song on stage, i heard him, i realized that in front of me was a talented person, he needed help, and i gave him my phone number, and i have it the next day right there, when i left, i immediately called, he was just waiting for this, that’s right, gennady, it’s clear that the stars really aligned like fate itself, zhana is so complete and complete, you know, this is the best enemy

of the good, how could you help her, well play, of course, i have now mastered this guitar, its accompaniment, so it has become such an assistant to me then not only songs, but song cycles began to appear, in our original way, everything about the way of life, that’s...

who needs it, and worse, especially, it’s impossible, it’s impossible, beautiful, and he remembers when zhanna sang in common joint concerts, he always stood backstage, listened to her, yes, i

understand him very much, let’s sing a song, yesterday i saw you in a dream. yesterday i saw you in a dream and enjoyed complete happiness, oh, if only i could, i would never wake up, trustingly on my chest, bow your gentle head. ilya, i whispered, i love you, i love you you, quietly, pavtaril, today i see on iago, i

, alas, are completely different, no, i will not deceive myself again, i am mine. the evil gaze shines with a new dream, with mockery, and your speech prepares torment, as if it wants to separate us, to prepare separation for us, and i thought that i was not living. that my soul strives for heaven, alas, it cannot, in reality, that wondrous dream will come true, your gaze is capable

of blinding, everything in me is empty and insignificant, why is it destined? to love, which is impossible to achieve. why is it destined to love, what is impossible to achieve, yesterday i saw you in a dream and with complete happiness enjoyed it. oh, if it were possible for me, i would

never wake up, oh, if it were possible for me, i would never wake up. this is a podcast 20 years later and we and its host alexander anatolyevich and konstantin aleksandrovich mikhailov. our guest is people's artist of russia, zhanna byuchevskaya and her husband, composer, poet, gennady panomariov. young performers are probably watching and listening to us, they are very different now, very different. please, from them. faces, please

give them some advice, to those performers who think that the song is a product, that a record is a track, that you need to write a hit, not even a hit, that’s what they need to understand and hear from you first-hand in order to become more interesting, more serious, better, you know that let’s - here - continue the theme of love, many young people dream of beautiful, good love, not only on the emotional, spiritual... but on the mental level, but for this they themselves must work hard for this, so that the lord unites them, so that there is an equal union, you know, before you look for a match of your own, you need to first think about what you are you get carried away, what interests you, what kind of music, what kind of poetry, are you empty like a drum, or is there something in you, take care of yourself, there is not a single righteous person here on earth, the apostle paul said: but still

you need to be interested in yourself , take an interest in yourself from the side of art, culture, ours, our country of amazing culture, the deepest, take an interest in classical music, listen to bards, classical poetry, read, if you don’t do this, then you will be unhappy in your personal life, you will have births bad children because you will not meet in love, you will not have understanding of each other, but most importantly, against the backdrop of my terrible tragic life. i always tried to be a cheerful person, i tried to make them laugh, even in childhood i made my friends laugh, i said, let me make them laugh, and you give me a treat, and i made them laugh, they treated me, so since childhood i learned to make people laugh, no longer for candy , not for the cookies, make me laugh, because people have a very hard life, you still need to brighten it up somehow, you joke with a person, he seems to smile at me, already... something

has thawed in him, you know, something has already revived in him, people are now dead, they are afraid to breathe in and out, they are afraid of everything in fear, fear rules the world now, and where there is fear, yes, absolutely right, and fear suppresses a person’s free will, fear kills, so i try to be simpler with people, because that’s why i say, as zhanna vladimi calls me, i say, no, he calls me simpler, i’m zhanna, i for everyone , zhanochka, i... can i say what is my favorite song performed by you? seventy in the film sixth year in the documentary find your song, it’s called, yes, the film, if i remember, it’s a concert that was filmed in ostanka during an interview with zhanna, by the way, i highly recommend watching it, it’s called find your song from 1976, the song can’t hear the noise of the city glinka , a wonderful song, yes, but only this is a russian folk song, a russian folk song, yes, but no, glinka’s music, to glinka’s music, to glinka’s music, yes... at this

concert a lot was heard, if now, let’s say, formulate russian hits folk, but this song received the most applause, well, i don’t look at the applause, because this is not the result of my work, applause, my result of my work is when a person follows the path that i show him with god’s help , it’s not always good, you know, but it’s good when you see it. eyes, when they come up to you and say: you know, your songs, the chief doctor from the oncology center on koshirka once called me, zhana vladimirovna said, you know, i could stand the songs. last stage patients oncologies were healed, and i asked, yes, everyone, he says, was healed a lot, but not all, because the evil ones were not healed, that’s right,

because where there is evil, there is no god’s grace, but god’s grace heals, that’s why they are spiritual songs, especially with such a performance, now that we are talking about this, about healing spiritual music. let's then turn to this work by roman rodnik rodnik uh-huh, let's listen, our guest is the people's artist of russia, zhanna bichevskaya, who turns 80 this year, a poet-composer, sound engineer and zhanna's husband gennady panomariov. thank you, this was a podcast 20 years later, hosted by konstantin mikhailov and alexander anatolyevich. if you have failed, if you are unable

to dispel the melancholy, soft autumn, autumn. behind the spring there is a white temple, an old one, this is a forgotten region, russia left us, if the eyes

are clouded with moisture, from the spring there will be spatter on... you can cry, cry calmly, who will figure out where the water is, where the tear is, you can cry, cry calmly, who will figure it out , where is the water, where is the tear, beyond the spring.

the ships flew by, near the horizon, melted them mushroom, and if you are sick, bedridden, then may you dream of a healing spring, and if you are sick, bedridden. may you dream of a healing spring, a white temple as a spring, a cemetery, an old, forgotten land.

she left us some.

hello, dear tv viewers, you are watching the lab triggers podcast, with you is its leading psychologist, tatyana krasnovskaya , psychologist and psychotherapist sergei nasebyan, our guest is yulia, hello, hello, tell us what you came to us with? i came with such an interesting request. i don't know how it is to name a diagnosis, these are either my fears or my beliefs, in general, it seems to me that i have a childish position, that is, i seem to always expect from someone that some of my questions will be resolved, for example, there is a job search, that one of my friends will offer me something, or for example, my man will solve these issues for me, until a certain period i had a dad who helped me, i have a feeling that i... no learning , but it’s like doing something myself, but

with everything that i expect, for example, from my man, that he will somehow solve my financial issues, while i cannot voice my requests to him, ask for money, that is, for example, say there, give me some amount for this, for that, that is for some reason i’m ashamed to do this, and i’m a little confused about this, i also have a feeling. that when looking for a job, i also don’t seem to allow myself to ask for some well-defined level of earnings, due to the fact that i don’t have this internal permission, i broadcast myself like that, well, that is this is how i see myself inside, this is how others apparently see me, i have this request, tell us a little about your story about your parental family, what is your relationship now, i have two parents, a brother, an older brother. my brother is 8 years younger, so i am the older sister, the eldest child, in my relationship

with my brother it turned out that my mother worked for us, there was a difference of 8 years, and somehow i was partly his parent in some way, my father earned money not bad, supported us, my mother also worked, but from a certain point moment, when i now analyze my past life, i understand that , for example, a lot... was not done according to my desire, and it was not my choice, but simply , as it were, we followed the path of least resistance, that is they chose a university where they could place me, and they could guarantee me, and they could do the right thing, well, it turned out that i got married, i got married at the age of 19, they also found a groom for you, a groom, no, we somehow found ourselves, but that was at school , that is, we dated from the age of 14 , then at the age of 12 we... were 19 years old, and we were 20, we we got married, lived in marriage for 25 years, then separated, i have two children, my eldest son

is 20 years old, and my daughter is 16. at some point, i made a decision for myself that i would go, well , let’s say, on a long maternity leave, that is i was at home for 8 years, taking care of the children, as it seemed to me, i was an ideal mother, well, then it happened that at some certain moment there was a need to go to work, because well, that was my financial situation, and i i realized that at the age of 45 i came out, there was no self-doubt in me, the skills were lost, that is, everything that i i could tell myself that, well, i seem to be a good mother, but then over time it was natural, like there is such a joke, yes, that if you have a mother, then you will definitely meet with a psychologist, the children began to grow up and... the joke began to come out out,

well, some of their injuries, yes, and this included a certain feeling of guilt, that you begin to analyze whether you did everything like this, this structure has been shaken, i am a good mother, well, in the end , i came to the conclusion that people there for 45-47 years are summing up some results, but i don’t seem to know. where i, well, that is, you don’t like the results, obviously , apparently, yes, yeah, you like the children, you don’t like the results, you don’t like the results, yeah, yeah, so i still can’t get my bearings so that i can stand on the rails and feel, well, self-confidence, let’s say, there is a little bit of a feeling of being lost, but your divorce happened, just like the divorce happened, i was the initiator. relatively calm, well , quite a serious decision for a person who does not know how to make decisions, why did you

decide to divorce? i just became understand that... i’m happy in a relationship, i began to understand that i don’t give my first husband anything, well, that is, as for a man, i understand that it’s still the woman’s support, faith in him, it’s important, here i am, then you withdrew yourself, i didn’t feel these feelings for him, well, let’s just say, he disappointed me, or, as you say, i don’t like the results, well, accordingly , he also gets mutual understanding.

years old, you have healthy children, why do you feel sorry for it, well, it’s as if this is clearly not how you imagined your 45 years, well, somehow yes, here i don’t like the results, i imagined that i understood where to go, i imagined that i would have some kind of vector, i imagined that there would be some kind of, well, some feeling of reliability , i imagined that there would be support, uh-huh, all this support is reliability was essentially built on the husband, on the husband, on the dad, yes, then... on the husband, well , the dad did the same for us, he supported us, yes, but you knew, yes, as if by the age of 40 you had already guessed that that dad will die, husband will die, everyone will die someday, how could you build a support on someone who dies, well, the question is, how could you build a support on someone who dies? who will die, well, let’s talk to you about this, how you built a support on, i don’t know, there is an ear on feet of clay, relatively speaking,

maybe i haven’t thought about it before, that is, that’s all for now. this was all happening, i had some kind of deep analysis, i was somehow suffering, yes, well, somehow, it seems to me that i

, well, i can’t say that at that moment when it was so good... for the fact that i got divorced, as if i had decided some kind of... question that i didn’t, well, didn’t analyze the fact that, for example, i was left without a means existence, yes, and that, well, i was fired, that your divorce will have some consequences for you, and the children stayed with you, yes, the children stayed with me, but my husband, well , supports, helps, that is, well, we were getting divorced very, how to say, correctly , it’s probably environmentally friendly, yes, if. so yeah, that is, you have maintained a fairly good relationship with your husband, now you have a man, that’s right, yes, now i have a second husband, you weren’t alone for long, not for long, yeah, so what, but this husband justifies expectations, right now there are no expectations, now it’s just there, well, somehow every time there is a current moment, well, in these current

moments he performs the functionality that you assigned to him, a person who... solves your problems, closes what are your needs? yeah, yeah, why are you worried? but i worry about myself and not. i see how, well, as a person, as a unit, yes, that is, like this, but you don’t have such a task, so far, from what you said, the task was one: first to live with dad, then to live with my husband, now to live with a second husband, what kind of personality are we talking about, well, apparently now such a need arises, there is such a task as you would like, this is the ideal picture, this is this holistic personality, what is it like, when you can rely on yourself to understand what is good when there is... a person nearby, but at the same time, if there is no person nearby, well, as if everything is okay with you, not in the sense that you are divorced or married, not as a partner, but in

the family, but what in in principle, you can handle it yourself, that is, for me, how will you understand this, that is, what do you need for this, here you don’t consider yourself like that now, you don’t consider yourself like that based on some -

let’s start with your profession, what institute did you end up graduating from? graduated from the kursk polytechnic institute, where did your parents go? you are a software engineer , and you graduated from college as a financial manager, well, you received a financial education, so both of them seem to be quite in demand today, well, the first education, it’s so nominal, that is , it’s not about me at all. second education, yes, i initially worked there for several banks, then i worked at a company as a financial manager, then as an accountant, then i wanted to leave the accounting department and i was fired,

well, accordingly, i couldn’t answer my request, so you liked your job, accounting, no, but there are people who like working in accounting, interesting, for sure, probably, i wanted to leave, and it so happened that i didn’t... by chance, get a job as an assistant to the director of a public school, and did you like this job? yes, i liked this job, now you don’t work there, now i don’t work there because the fact that the pandemic made you redundant, no, they laid me off from the accounting department, why don’t you work at school if you like it, it’s a little difficult to be a personal assistant, there are certain moments when i couldn’t, well, morally, it’s already time to combine this role is precisely that of a personal assistant, and that is... that is, i liked all the functionality, everything except that at some point it begins, well, as certain boundaries of mine, i could not defend, let’s say, that is, i

don’t mean there are complaints against my employer, yes, but i just realized that in at some certain moment i lost myself, and you yourself left, yes, uh-huh, that was your last job, you quit a long time ago, mm, in september, so good, but what if... suppose that now you will climb out of the hole you are in, what profession you would like to make your main activity, well, something related to administration. that is, well, how long do you plan to work in the position of some administrator, something, well, until the end of your days, for example, you want to die at at work, is this possible, or do you understand that you have 15 active years left there, i definitely don’t want to die yet, i don’t want to die at work either, but for some time yet, well, i’m interested in working, i’m 47 years old now and i’m still

how... i don’t see myself, that is, i have strength, desire, i want to work, but how would you like your life to change, suddenly a miracle, the whole mechanism switches and suddenly your ideal life begins, like it it would look like, in a month you will have such and such, in a year you have such and such, in 5, in 10 years, you wake up, happy, well, there is this, let’s say, some kind of excitement and desire to do things, interest, satisfaction, well, so internal, yes, that doesn’t mean there are some moments, why do you cry when you talk about it , well, you talk about how great it will be, why do you cry even when you look there, no, i’m sorry that it’s not like that now, okay, it’s not like that now, it’s just a fact, why do you get upset when

we.. .

like a feeling of my own ego, well, as if i am myself, well, how i disappoint, yes, then. come on, how have you disappointed yourself, let ’s say at your stage of 47 years, where does your memory stop, where does it appear? disappointed in you now, today, at 35 years old, what happened at 35 years old, filled, that julia, who has a reason to be somehow, what happened at 35 years old, during this period of your life, what happened, with me everything was fine, yes, what else was happening there, i knew where to move, i understood that i had goals, what, well, this was 12 years ago, that is, this is essentially the birth of your second child, where were you moving? for what,

yes? ok, why? to the fact that there was an opportunity to do what you liked, and what you liked? did you go on maternity leave when you were eight years old? yes, i liked planning, well , somehow i liked children, well, taking care of them, yes, but now i ’m analyzing it for myself on the other hand, that maybe it was precisely at that moment that there was a moment of leaving myself, yes, that is, it was as if, instead of taking care of myself, i... in front of your father and in front of your husband at that time, also gave you this justification in that you took from they have some kind of help there, well, my husband is understandable, my dad is less clear, well, maybe yes, you’re saying now, maybe yes, what can i say, i, well, for me it was justified, yes, the fact that they support me, because i ’m doing something that supposedly cannot be measured, measurable, yes, yes, at this

moment you clearly seem to have... some results in the material world, let’s call it that, and you went into the ephemeral world , for example, into the ephemeral world of good mothers, as if there is some kind of, you know, universe where everything mothers are good and everyone shows their children to each other, their children respectively have a sarf in chinese from chinese to gymnastics, from gymnastics to swimming, then chess, english only after that to sleep, they all... eat, they don’t get sick, they are obedient, so you moved into this world of good mothers, and you thought, i’m such a good mother, but what happened there, well, this is the most disappointing, disappointment. there was a problem that even at that moment you were not confident in your husband, that he would be able to provide for you the way you need, you already saw it then and then it understood, but turned a blind eye, that’s what’s the matter, instead of at 35 there, well, even now, in general, it’s quite okay, but at 35

you were young, and that was the moment when it was possible and worth it make other decisions, perhaps get better, perhaps you had such thoughts, perhaps not go on this eight-year maternity leave, but do what... what to build your career, build your relationships in this world, so that this world knows about you as an individual , and not as a prefix to your husband, right there at this second or at this minute or at this year, it doesn’t matter, it’s like julia got lost there, well, as if it happened a little earlier, do you seem to be very familiar with this state of disappointment, some kind of disappointment in yourself, when you made your own decision for the first time? answer first, that’s what comes to mind, an independent decision, in principle, well, here ’s some of mine, for your life, any independent decision, i’ll go to school, i won’t go to school, it seems to me that in my marriage there were always my decisions, well, that is, i was in my first marriage all the time, well, let’s say

so, yes, this is the notorious one, who is the boss in the family, that is, well, i had everything, and i understand that my husband, in principle, also seemed to be comfortable, well, at the same time, i had... everything that was like a mother, yes, but she wasn’t much of a girl, that is, i don’t know how it would be not to take the packages that are there, just walk past them, but i’ll definitely take them, well, here are some moments like you wanted to be the head of the family, at first i liked it, well, judging by the fact that i took this role for myself, and i liked it, there is the feeling that along with this dominance you got that husband who... did not live up to your expectations in the end? well, of course , yes, i understand it now, well, the decision to get a divorce, it was also absolutely my decision and i understood that, well , no matter what, even if there’s no work there,

that’s all, i still can’t do it anymore to be in this marriage, and this decision is bold, i don’t know, i just understood differently that well, it’s like i just can’t breathe, well, well, i really physically just can’t and - accordingly my first husband, too, well, i suppress it, because i understood that that’s where i was, well, very, so strong, strong in a negative sense, yeah, at the beginning they said that your request was that you were in a child’s position, a child’s position and such dominance in the family as this, well , now it’s as if something like this happened, you know, like a changeling and... i seem to be afraid of something to return and become so dominant again or as if let's just say it's not good for anything led well, conditionally, i think that if you

now, when we are talking about this, if you take responsibility for this entire experience , here is the total responsibility that you made the decision, you did what you did and the result of these decisions, the result of your... actions in general, you don’t like it, if you accept all this experience from beginning to end and integrate it into yourself, then most likely you will not repeat the same mistake, but then the question arises: how will you act from today in relations with yours current spouse - so that your personality develops, as you say, at the same time you can count on your spouse and give him the opportunity to take care of you, what can you do differently? i still don’t understand it very well, well... this, apparently, is why there is, how can i say, this, well, like an imbalance, and it’s like there’s some kind of instability and uncertainty, or something, what are you saying, as if

you cannot control this force, that if it exists, then it is total, then you begin suppress your husband, you begin to dominate, lead him with you, and as if now, if you turn it on, then... with the second one, follow yes, follow this scenario

that you followed with the first husband, with the second husband, i have a slightly different situation, we have a big age difference, it’s unlikely that even if i really want to, i’ll be able to defeat him, yes, but answering tatyana’s question, would you try to somehow suppress him, i don’t see it now no, tatyana asked you another question, she said what would you do if you wanted to break up with him? relationship, as from what you answer, i conclude that if you could, you would suppress him, that’s how you would destroy the relationship with him, but thank god, you understand that this is impossible due to his some- then wisdom, maturity, his inner strength, well , yes, well, it’s clear that you wouldn’t have come directly, you wouldn’t have said, look, now let’s agree who’s in charge here, well, if we exaggerate this situation, then we’ll begin to develop in this direction, if i wanted to basically destroy the marriage, yes... i would probably, well most likely she would just say that

listen, i’m wondering what i could do, so that you would categorically tell me, i think, if you began to humiliate him, humiliate him, disrespect him, of course, yes, why did you ask tatyana, this question, well, i’m interested in understanding what can be done in order to destroy, in order to understand, and then what should be done in order to preserve, that is, there is a certain idea, but about the fact that... who destroys relationships, it’s clear now , what is not worth it, then what is worth doing? the most important thing is that it seems to me that it’s worth talking, well, that is, communicating a lot, talking, explaining, checking in with each other, well, at every moment in time, when some situations arise, for example, or some just, as they say, dialogue, yes, then there is a need to find some kind of balance between destructive actions and...

today they broadcast in different channels, because there are a large number of psychologists who , in my opinion, are just the opposite, the ability to feel each other without talking is higher when it’s just it’s good for the two of us to be silent, this is also important, well, for you still a marriage. it’s just beginning in this sense, you’ve been married to him not so long ago, but what’s definitely worth talking about is about roles, this is what you essentially started with, because on the one hand, of course, you’re in these in a relationship, now you can be in the role of a little girl, for whom a man much older than you is responsible, but this won’t last long either, that’s the thing, he won’t be interested in it, that’s when tanya is talking about, you will find a balance, because i’m sure that your spouse... in general, is not against it, only for you developed personally, well, let’s just say that yes,

of course, not like, do whatever you want, just as long as you don’t, well, because you can rush to the other extreme now, you can destroy, or you can rush to the other extreme, where you can save the relationship , just create everything by running there, spending all your efforts there, but you need to find yourself in this, with or without a relationship. you can find all episodes of the triggers podcast on the website of the first channel 1tv.ru, let’s say, relationships in marriage, they don’t mean, well, they’re not that important, yes they are, but now in the first place for me it’s exactly yes, about the fact that, well, in general, where i am for myself, that is, right now, the fact that i wasn’t there for a long time alone, well, my daughter tells me that it feels like you can’t be alone, but i can’t. that for me it just happened that way, but

at the moment i still have more of a request for myself, that is, i understand that marriage also depends, well, naturally , on how i will behave feel, that is, how much i will really yul, you answered all the questions, look, you understand exactly how you will feel satisfied, this is when... you have a profession that you respect yourself for, an income that allows you to be independent and fully support yourself, and accordingly, a business that will be part of your hobby there, you said it, now you have a spouse who is one way or another a support for you, so you have some time within which, using this support, you can yourself as an individual implement, that is, right now you have such an opportunity, it ’s important not to miss it, that same opportunity that you missed at 35. when you had a dad and a husband, and maybe if you

had realized yourself through these parameters, they would have left in fact, false identity, mom, good. mother, wife and so on, yes, because these are identities that are always associated with the role of the other partner, if there is no husband, you are not a wife, if there is no child, you are not a mother, so now this is exactly what is needed take a lesson that 35 years would not have passed or passed there it’s wrong, because you don’t like the result, and today direct all your strength to this, using your husband as support and support, now you have a couple of years for this, believe me, no more, but within two years it must be done.

my daughter tells me that she is grateful to me for getting divorced, they highlight some of your strengths, something that they like about you, something that impresses, well , yes, she often tells me, that she likes the kind of relationship we have, she is open with me, it happens that sometimes she and her brother... they put it to me in their correspondence there diagnoses that i have some kind of adhd, that i’m some kind of advanced child, all the split personality, yes, now young people like to talk about it, well, just at some point, when my friends used to congratulate me on my birthday, i very often they said that you are

an amazing mother, you are a great mother, somehow i don’t know such mothers, at some point it already became like... bad advertising, yes, because this is just a small part of your personality, and what do you think you managed to create in your relationship with them? the main thing is with the children, yeah, it seems to me that it didn’t work out, i managed to keep them, well , authenticity, that is, they are like that, well, in my opinion, i also understand that they are loved, they are so spoiled, they are such, well, such good home children, yes , well, in a good sense, not in the sense that... they have grandmothers, grandfathers, mom, dad, well, how can you say that, in principle, the family is a full cup, but they had a good, happy childhood, that is you know how to love, in fact, yes, that’s great , look, it’s the same thing, just give it

now to yourself, and your daughter is right when she tells you that you underestimate yourself, because in fact you now, here you are 47, have the opportunity to show them another one. the important thing is that you are an adult, you can do anything, and you will do what you like, without looking back at them, at your parents, at your husbands and so on, so they should see that 47 is just the beginning in this sense life, when we begin to enjoy our life, when you can love yourself, you were able to love them, that’s it, that’s all with them, and now just for yourself, in the good sense of the word, you have your beloved man next to you, in general, in the near future everything will only be wonderful. i think you need to find yourself, that is , the self you want to be, you know, like when the chumrashka asks the crocodile gene, says what you do, he says, to the crocodiles in the zoo, can you imagine how harmonious this is, well, you’re in i wasn’t embarrassed by this answer as a child, to crocodiles in the zoo, he’s either an idiot, or cheburashka is an idiot, or we, who are reading this, but no, really

in fact, this is an absolutely harmonious emotion of your essence, your essence, your, your inner self, here. i need to find you, who will work as a crocodile at the zoo, that’s also good, but you need to find this yourself, who wants to realize herself through some position, through some profession, through some activity, don’t look for a job, find yourself who wants to realize herself through this or that profession, there is a very simple coaching tool, you can take a piece of paper, when you leave here or in the notes in phone, now you will be riding in a taxi, write how you want your day to look like, so you woke up, where you woke up, what’s around you, where did you go, what did you do? further, what kind of work do you have, how do you feel about it, when did you arrive, what greets you in the evening, who meets you in the evening, what are you doing, through these simple steps you will little by little, little by little feel, i’ll try, no need to try, i’ll try i’ll do it, okay, it’s good that you stopped yourself, thank you very much,

thank you, you’re crying so interestingly, at the same time despite everything, the past and the future are a little confused in your head, you look at your future, but see only your past there. well, yes, there’s probably this moment that i don’t seem to see the future, and what the hell with it, don’t look into the future, look at the present, what kind of self do you want to realize through your work and professional activities? thank you very much again, thank you, well, this was the trigger lab podcast, and we talked with yulia about how to find yourself in the ups and downs of life, relationships and professional activities. were with you the hosts of this podcast are tatyana krasnovskaya and sergey nasebyan. and you, dear viewers, if you want to become a participant in the trigger podcast and be our guest in our studio and understand the issue that is interesting to you personally, fill out the form on the 1tv website.

hello, this is a podcast deception of substances, with you olesya nosova, editor-in-chief of komsomolskaya pravda, and the famous endocrinologist zukhra pavlova. zukhra, let's talk today about obesity, about types of obesity, because it turns out. it's not at all obvious to a specialist, all fat people look about the same, but it turns out that there are different reasons for this obesity. in general, what is happening in the world, how big a problem is this now? oh, a big problem, a pandemic, although he called the 21st century the obesity epidemic, but in fact it is a pandemic, an epidemic is on one continent, a pandemic is on all continents, unfortunately, this pandemic is progressing, that ’s why we talk so much about obesity.

there is such a huge information propaganda in the media in a good sense, yes they provide opportunities to independently balance your diet, increase physical activity, and at the same time , the number of people with regret, unfortunately, among children, is progressively increasing. previously, we knew for sure that the children's part is the most slender part, people, well, they are mobile, they eat only when they want, as if mothers do not try, so much so. it was, now many children are overweight and obese, and this is an even bigger problem, because the earlier

obesity begins, the more difficulties it will be in adulthood. we can cope with this, but we have data that clearly demonstrates how the number of obese people is progressively increasing, and the most interesting thing is that not many years have passed, let’s say from seventy-five to 2014, but less than half a century. people among women among men increased by two or three times, and pay attention, in the seventy-fifth year there were practically no obese men, one might say, yes, yes, it is, there is such an interesting picture floating around on the internet, a beach , a lot of people, people on the beach naked in swimsuits, and it says find a complete one, and then 2000 some year the same beach, the surroundings have changed a little, the same sockets and the sun is not visible, but it says find. thin, that’s how strong this gap is for physiology, for evolution, it’s not even a mix, it’s an imperceptible thing, that is

, nothing has changed genetically, we understand that these are mainly external factors, the external factor is nutrition, this is daily movement rhythms, forecast for the twenty-fifth year, i will say that it has already come true in the twenty-fourth year, according to the boss men in our country, obesity will be 33%, is it in our country or in the world, in our russia, in our country, there are general data, but the data varies greatly by country, for example, north american and generally american south america, there is significantly there are more obese and overweight people than is acceptable in southeast asia, that is, i don’t know, vietnam, laos, japan in this regard are more structural, less... overweight people than africa or america, we are on this list, thank god, not in first place, but there is such an interesting

statistics for post-soviet countries, and there we differ, women are in second place, after one of the baltic countries, and men are in sixth, in last place, in my opinion, i don’t remember where, among women among men tajikistan, but...

because there are also hormonal characteristics, we have more estrogens, and estrogens inherently contribute more to the accumulation of adipose tissue, although it all depends on age, on the initial state, of course, on genetic factors, but with all that this if you pay attention to a woman of reproductive age, someone with the figure of a guitar, yes, then this is just a woman with such good hips, with good mammary glands, that is, subcutaneously ... the layer prevails over the visceral one, over the one in the stomach, yes or on the stomach, and this is a healthier state, so a woman of reproductive age with a certain excess of adipose tissue mainly in the subcutaneous layer is a healthy woman who is reproductive, nature is very puzzled that everything will be fine with her, because for nature's most important thing is reproduction. zukhra, you said that in 1930

there will be 30% men, unfortunately, 33% - according to who data, this is what they are. what is their dynamic? unfortunately, it’s the same, there will be more of them, because there are already about so many of them now, we have dynamics, i also really like this information on our districts, we won’t present it here, it’s difficult to figure it out, but that’s the point that we have very different dynamics in different federal districts, the minimum number of people with obesity and excess weight in the north caucasus district, but in the siberian district, for example, the highest. quantity is also a very important factor here, which also needs to be taken into account, where a person lives in a warm place, well , he potentially moves more and eats less fatty foods, which helps to warm up, yes, and where it’s cold, people spend a lot of time there they move less, but you can’t go skiing or go for a walk at -30 or -20, let’s say, he’s practically

hibernating in front of the tv, and practically, that's why this too. already one of the factors that must be taken into account, there are interesting scientific observations that people who began to engage in sports intensively, well , as i understand it, these are those people who have never exercised before, after some time, or maybe even very quickly, they stop doing household chores very intensively, at least on the same day, because they apparently subtly think that since i strained myself in the gym, then at home, if i wash the floor there, i will already do my job norms physical activity and... and so on, so the scientists made an interesting conclusion that it turns out that this is absolutely wrong, but you cannot replace household chores with physical activity, i agree, if the question arises that you need to lose weight, then it means you need to add, and not to replace, of course, yes, the consumption needs to be increased, in this situation it would be great to reduce the flow as well, it turns out

that where it is colder, people are in greater danger. from the point of view of obesity, well , including, because remember, in the summer heat , eat a sandwich with butter and caviar, let’s say you want much less or with cheese than in winter, when this food is more acceptable, you want this fatty, warm, hot, but because you need to warm up, well, it’s cold, this is not the most important thing, but this also happens maybe you and i were talking about timosha, by the way, patients sometimes come and say: i’m timosha, timosha’s manul, let me remind you that - in the fall, timosha’s manul gained weight and went to fatten up, he gained twice as much weight in order to see how it would be normal to spend the winter, but by the way, now timosha has lost weight and lost weight, and yes, he spent everything he had saved up over the winter, and he is ready for spring, for active events, and so on, in general , he has returned to his previous shape, and for many people

it is also typical, in winter they gain weight or even for winter too they're getting rich. and in the summer they dump, they dump very actively, and often this is associated with dachas, with vegetable gardens, but this is bad in general or acceptable, it’s almost such a natural move, unless it’s plus or minus 2-3 kg, when it comes to some big races, this is of course bad, nothing this is not good, and i often noted before in the clinic that in the summer, practically, patients with type 2 diabetes simply disappear, they almost never exist. they prescribed themselves more medications in advance so that they could go to their dacha in the summer, and the point is not only that they were far from the clinic, they were much less worried about problems with sugar there, because at this dacha...... constant activity, not in the mood for sugar, and sugar doesn’t bother him, he knows that the person is busy, he is active, everything is fine with weight gain, and accordingly with sugars everything is fine too, if all other recommendations are followed, it would be good here,

probably, to say that when we talk about obesity, here i would really like to talk about what in general is the main mechanism for the accumulation of adipose tissue, if we take it quite literally. simply, then remembering our great compatriot lomanosov, who , together with lovo azi, discovered the law of conservation of mass, as much as comes, so much remains, well , in a simple statement, then obesity is just about this: if a person eats 2,000 spends only 1,500 calories together with physical activity and some basic needs, for the operation of the mechanism, then 500 kilocalories will not go anywhere, they will stock up and squeeze in. this is how our physiology works, because a person did not always have the opportunity to have a sufficient amount of food, well, by the way, yes, zukhra, here i would like to emphasize, let’s still call it some kind of favorable factor,

it’s really cool , this is great, this is what saves us, this is what our body always saves for yes, yes, this is this, this must be taken into account, it will be very difficult to retrain him, because there is no need, well, god forbid, a cold winter, well, now the climate seems to be getting warmer, yes, yes, it is changing a little in its balance, there are more fats, more simple carbohydrates, all this refined stuff unfortunately, such

a phenomenon as sarcopenia is actively spreading in our country, sarcopenia is when muscle tissue is replaced by fat and a person is a little wiry-like, he seems to be slim, but he does not have enough muscle mass, and this is well practically the basis of our health, functioning well. and sufficient in volume, not only fat, but also muscle, first of all, probably muscle tissue, although we also need to emphasize when there is not enough fat tissue, it is not enough, it is in short supply, there will be no less problems, that’s about how much , they will be a little different, but it will also be a rather sick organism with a lot of high all sorts of unfavorable risks, just like when a person has a lot of fatty tissue, so the balance has changed, the raglan has changed. now very often people eat at night and late in the evening, because they go to bed in the morning, but this factor makes its own changes, and we are all hypodynamic, we are sitting here, we are going up in the elevator, we

are driving in a car, we are in a horizontal position in front of tvs when we go to bed, activity has greatly decreased, even something as simple as walking, so, despite the fact that such a basic mechanism with... is associated with a greater influx of energy resources than consumption, there are a lot of features, we have such a classification, we will not go into in its subtleties, it is professionally complex enough, but so that it is clear to everyone, there are two large divisions, primary alimentary, so-called obesity or exogenous-constitutional, it is more complicated, therefore primary, elementary symptomatic, here is primary... and most often people are faced with such pictures - obesity in the shape of an apple, obesity in the shape of a pear, but in the shape of a pear - this is when our lower part is so dense, it is typical

for women, obesity - which is abdominal, it is more typical for men, but this does not mean that a woman cannot have an abdominal form of obesity, just more, for men it is typical, but there are mixed and abdominal and pear-shaped ones? it happens when it’s already very large kilograms, yes 200-300, there’s already a lot of everything everywhere, it’s difficult to separate, and there, of course, it ’s called another word, morbid obesity, where no one counts any degrees anymore, i once wrote, by the way , not so long ago, eighth degree, but that’s not how it’s done, i just wanted to show the patient how we we will walk with him just like step by step, and remove these degrees, and after the fourth degree there is morbid obesity. doesn’t write anything, so this is one division, elementary and symptomatic, there may be an endocrine one, but we often hear the patient say: i have something with hormones, sometimes something with hormones...

really contributes to the development obesity, and the endocrinologist here must remove the main cause to help the person get rid of it, but there will still be overeating, or we often hear such a statement, me after covid-19 or during during covid, they gave me injections with some kind of hormone, and after that i gained a lot. yes, most often this hormone is a glucorticoid hormone, dexsomitazone, which actually saved a person’s life, and so they saved the person, there was no longer... before any endocrine disorders that followed, it was necessary to save the person, they saved him, but what do the same glucocorticoids do, they increase the level of the main hunger hormone, they often talk about it now, grillin, it even has the same name, you can feel that it is very powerful this grillin, and it causes an increase in receptors for hormones that stimulate our appetite and a person really wants to eat uncontrollably, it is very difficult for him.

explain that he doesn’t need to eat, he won’t hear, he won’t understand, all his activities are, all his thoughts are about food, against this background it’s easy to gain excess weight, so yes, there are such options, but there are also medicinal features, sometimes we drink some kind of then the drug and we note that we have become constantly hungry, this has never happened before, yes, when we prescribe certain medications and know about that there will be such a situation, and without these medications there is no way, some... especially important story that needs to be overcome with the help of these medications, we say, you know, your appetite will increase, please try to limit such - such and such high-calorie foods, so that this set is smaller than it can be, and in this way we will help the patient for the period that he needs to take these medications, gain a smaller amount, that is, the reasons are very different, nothing understand, what's happening? we seemed to have love, no,

why are you running away from me, what kind of love, what are you saying, leave me alone, but in our yard, tomorrow on the first day, who is more dangerous, a bee or a wasp, and is there any the difference between these bites, summer themes in the program live healthy, on monday on the first. this is a podcast deception of substances, we are talking about obesity, with me is zukhra pavlova, a famous endocrinologist and i am olesya nosova, editor-in-chief of komsomolskaya pravda. another such, such a frequent statement that we we hear from friends, from patients, we have such genetics: my mother, grandmother, everyone was overweight and i have no chance of getting rid of it, in such situations we need to figure it out, well, this is a monogenic concept, that is, when there is a gene mutation. there

everything is actually clear and so, look at a person, it won’t just be obesity, there will also be specific factors, and here it is really extremely difficult to avoid weight gain, but in most 95% of cases when a person is overweight, these are the so-called polymorphisms are predispositions to certain changes, and this is not a death sentence at all, here a person should or can know about it, now it’s fashionable to make genetic passports, right? so there are predispositions, they are not a death sentence, an informed person knows this about himself and just, let’s say , monitors his diet more closely, and sometimes under the guise of genetics those same family habits, that ’s how it is, that’s how it is, yes, when i say, let’s say to your friend, no need to pose. onions are extra calories,

these are the same final products of glazing, which we have talked about many times, which will be very tasty anyway if you just add finely chopped onions, carrots and so on, without frying, so most often people have such a stupor, and then they think that it will spoil the borscht, it’s just not borscht anymore, i know, my family is the same, yes, yes, you are also rich in culinary traditions, yes, yes, that’s why when people say: it should be on the new year’s table, with mayonnaise , i say, well, god bless him, once a year, yes, it won’t happen catastrophes, but if you regularly eat like this, it will definitely have negative consequences, so as an exclusive, maintaining family traditions once a year for health, you will even feel certain things that you have not felt before, such figuratively speaking, cleansed receptors they will immediately give you a clear understanding of the language. it will seem

tastier, no, no, well, everyone, of course , will most likely react in their own way, but there was such an experiment in my family, once my relatives decided to... conspire we went to a fast food restaurant, and they wanted, well , to keep it a little secret, to eat something that they once thought was delicious, so they came, laughed, brought it with them, so to speak, with irrefutable evidence, and i was surprised what it was, they say: we went there, we wanted to, as they say, quietly eat up, have a blast, but it turned out to be not as tasty as it was before, that’s why sometimes it works like that, when you don’t eat it all for a long time, you don’t understand why you... i liked it, yes, there is a lot of talk about how to determine obesity, yes, what is obesity, by what classical criteria do we make such a diagnosis, well, there is the well-known body mass index, this is a calculated indicator of the ratio of body weight, well, kilograms and height, that is, we

divide body weight by height squared, we get the value, depending on the gender value we understand, this is a deficiency of body weight, everything that is less than eighteen is normal body weight, and up to 25, this is overweight from 25 to 29.99, well, figuratively speaking, from 30, here from 30 to five units is obesity of varying degrees depending on - that is, zukhra, you considered seventh degree obesity, that is, 40-45. an unhappy person, of course, yes, but i can already say that this person has already lost 18 kg, we started not so long ago, and well, a normal,

normal period of time for this, for what period, in my opinion, it seems to me, almost less than a month, yes it’s gone, no, no, no, you definitely can’t lose more than 18 kg in a month, because it’s dangerous, that. has its consequences, weight needs to be lost gradually, classic, classic such a step is 4 kg per month, but when we use certain medications, this step increases a little, because we reduce the risks of those troubles that threaten people who quickly lose weight, so there is no need to rush, well, zuhra, there are a lot of women who do not lose 3 kg they can throw off their whole life, there are such people. women, of course, but in order to start losing weight, we will talk about this in another program, well, just briefly looking ahead, subtract 500 from your current coloring and you will start losing weight, but give up two sandwiches a day, the weight will begin to decrease,

well, it all depends on what the initial and weight is, well, different things, but the body mass index is the parameter that helps us... establish obesity, degree of obesity, calculate, say so, cardiovascular risks and so on and so forth, but not the most objective criterion, because today we mentioned sarcopenic obesity, sarcopenia will not show, it will not show, it will show that a person is of absolutely normal weight or even underweight or underweight may show, and this criterion can lead us astray, or... if in front of you is a bodybuilder, yes, you don’t even need to take a bodybuilder, if you take nikolai valoev, yes, such a well-known athlete of ours is already a political figure, he has a body mass index also a good degree of obesity, but the person has a lot of muscle mass, and he

has absolutely no excess fatty tissue, in any case, i don’t know, i haven’t seen nikolai for a long time, i hope he’s doing well , good health, so if in front of you is a person with large muscle mass and... it can show some degree of obesity, but the excess is not due to fat, but due to muscles, so this is a somewhat crafty indicator, a parameter, but there is, and there is a more objective one, we can determine the waist circumference, here is the circumferential have become a more objective criterion, there are certain ethnic characteristics, but for russia, for europe, there are certain criteria, for men of the district steel? should be less than 94 cm, and for women less than 80, but this is not the case everywhere, americans have different criteria, for men it is 102 cm, and for women 88, but if and why is this objectively so or just say so, well

, if you look at the american population, that’s why they are so surprised when they look at our video from the patriarchal cruds, well, that is, these are such giveaways, let’s do it... their descendants are already, well, if before if you are japanese or japanese, then there are different criteria, the japanese are the only nation whose waist circumference should be smaller, normal, than that of women, for men it is 85, and for women 90. well, this is according to some criteria, it is clear that with our own eyes we can understand, yes, that a person is overweight, but not always a circle. it will help us in the same way as body mass index, if we have a person with arcopenic obesity, and

here only bioimpedance analysis of body composition comes to the rescue, or denstometry - this is the most objective gold standard in determining body composition, but you won’t send a person for an x-ray every time to determine his body composition, for example, when we lose weight, this analysis is carried out very often, we look at what we... a fairly objective method is bioimpedance analysis of body composition, it doesn’t have any such difficulties, it’s technically simple, it doesn’t cause harm to the body, and it’s not financially expensive, and what is it based on, we use it so often, it’s this name, yeah. even if you think about it and understand the meaning of the name of the method, bioimpedance impedance in english is

resistance, biobiological resistance, that is , a low-intensity current passes through the human body, it does not harm the person in any way, encountering the resistance of different tissues, bone, muscle, fat, the apparatus calculates the volume these fabrics and liquid, by the way, in fact , it gives such a picture in the form of tablets of beautiful exact parameters there, we know how many kilograms of muscle fat tissue, how many kilograms, well, we can convert it into liters of water in the body, as a percentage, this percentage ratio is very important to us , because sometimes a person comes and says: oh, doctor, i got such a wonderful result of bioimpedance, i say, yes, what ’s so wonderful about it, he says, i’m 70% muscle, i say, what are you show me? and i slowly begin

to explain to the person that this is impossible in principle, that’s why we have diagnostic methods, they are objective, with you again the podcast is a deception of substances, today we are talking about the causes of obesity in the studio , komsomolskaya pravda editor-in-chief olesya nosova and i am an endocrinologist zukhra pavlova. zukhra, let's talk a little more about bioimpedance, what does it mean? is it simple - poorly calibrated devices or not devices at all, well, what if when does a person get these 70% of muscles? well, sometimes it’s so completely banal a thing when a person stands on a platform like a scale, well, that is, it’s like built-in bioimpedance, some kind of device, and this is a projection of the legs, but the legs are very different in composition from the composition of the rest of the body, that is, bioimpedance in this situation. measure only the condition of the legs, yes, well, that is, where they measure the ratio

of muscle and fat tissue and 70% of the muscles, these are definitely only legs, legs, then the mathematical device completes what the whole body could look like if it were measured normally, yes, so the same, let's say, bioimpedance, which is particularly objective, conducted research, compared the data with densametry data from this gold standard x-ray study, and the data coincided: well , almost completely, so when we explain to the patient that you have lost weight remarkably, in your opinion, but unfortunately you you have lost the most valuable things, you have lost muscle mass and water, so let us still return to the recommendations that were given initially, you will balance your food this way, and not the way you want, yes, because a person sometimes, when let’s say, there is a decrease in appetite due to medications. he begins to eat not so much healthy things, because he doesn’t really want to eat, but tasty things, well

, this is healthy in itself, if you need to eat few calories, then why spend them on something useful, it’s better to eat something tasty, yes, at the expense of this tasty thing , adipose tissue leaves in smaller quantities, and muscle tissue escapes, oh, oh-oh-oh, as you can see on the scales very significantly, the muscles are heavy, and i always say to the patient, please tell me, what do you see more of? less numbers on the scales, or your clothes become too big, so if the patient says: no, not clothes, this is the second time i’ve changed things there, this is a very good option, because the fatty tissue is voluminous and that’s a decrease. physiological, so that there is as much fat, it is important for us that the body composition becomes as much as necessary, by the way, as much as necessary, for men up to 24% of body composition is normal, and for women up to 31%, and of course, a sufficient amount

of muscle mass, then everything is ideal , this this is the ratio, the balance. he prioritizes not so much the scales as the ratios, because then the person will be healthy, which means we talked about diagnostic methods, i would very much like certain parameters to be included in this diagnosis, i often hear, we won’t talk about what tests need to be taken, yes, because despite the fact that they are largely repeated from patient to patient, each patient... has its own characteristics, when a doctor examines a patient, he sees certain signs of those or other diseases or conditions, and will add something else, so when they say: what should i take? a patient calls, let’s say, wants to come for an appointment, says: what should i give? and i always tell him: i will examine you first, interview you , then i will prescribe the scope of the examination for you.

so, i often hear from my colleagues when they say what to define. some parameters are meaningless, they don’t say anything, well, for example, there is such a hormone leptin, when it was discovered in the last century, scientists had the feeling that a revolution had taken place, now with the help of this leptin and its analogues, we will cure everyone of obesity, this is hormone saturation, but it turned out that when we gave laboratory animals this hormone, some actually lost weight, and some... did not react to it at all, i mean , they just didn’t want to eat, they felt full all the time, they were full, yes, but for some it really worked like that, there was no increased appetite, so the rats and other animals lost weight, and some of the rats did not lose weight and even gained it, so, in fact, this hormone, like insulin, is an indicator of the volume

of adipose tissue, that is, if you and i see an overweight person with some kind of morbid degree of obesity, we already understand that he will have a lot of insulin, and there is a lot of leptin, and the worst thing is that resistance to this other hormone very often develops, tolerance, they cannot act, leptin cannot tell the brain that there is enough food, there is no need to eat more, insulin also cannot ensure the passage of glucose into the cage, saturate this cage and give the hunger centers and other substances there a signal: stop. we no longer need to eat, but due to this resistance, there is a lot of glucose in the blood, a lot of insulin in the blood, a person is always hungry, you want to eat all the time, and literally, especially in the evening, when the activity of the same insulin is at its highest, sometimes, to show the patient what is happening in his body, this is not such a big expense, but

when you show how high the same insulin is, you can not only calculate insulin resistance. sometimes this is it to show in medicine there is even one like this in anatomy exams to show this part you must show for the patient this visual image, it is very sobering, it defines such a boundary now like this and if you take another step in the same direction. then it will be even worse, there will be diabetes, there will be cardiovascular pathologies and so on and so forth, i generally picture obesity as a ray of sunshine, but i have such a positive approach, no, well, why not, yes, why scare them anyway, that’s it i draw this sun to show that the basis of many diseases is precisely

obesity, the sun has rays, rays, here is one of the rays - these are cardiovascular diseases, except... obesity in a person will have carbohydrate disorders, prediabetes, there, increased glycemia on an empty stomach or after eating, by itself diabetes and some other troubles, this will be a violation of the lipid cholesterol profile, and our fats are in the wrong balance, and this will contribute to atherosclerosis again - cardiovascular diseases, this is an imbalance of sex hormones, androgen deficiency, followed by... reproductive dysfunction and so on. in women, this is a polycyst of the ovaries, which very often develops against the background of overweight or obesity, this is a disorder, we are at the same time. this was often discussed about purine metabolism, that same gout, yes, hyperuricia.