improve relations with the west and achieve, so to speak, at least a partial lifting of sanctions, but on the other hand, you see, when a political leader of hamas is assassinated on their territory, who is a guest of the iranian government, who came to the funeral of the president, this is of course, well, the word spit, probably a very strong one, but in principle something like this. and

a provocation, that is, iran, in order to save face, needs to respond, another thing is that now iran is looking for some, so to speak, if israel does this, then then we won't, if israel goes for it, but consultations have begun in qatar, and hamas is not participating there, in general, if we speak like that without details, until the issue with palestine is resolved. the state will not calm down there and there will be no so-called reconciliation of the parties, unfortunately, you are right, and even more unfortunately, not only will there not be without a solution to the palestinian problem, but this solution, it seems to me, is very far away, because the parties not only have different demands, but if you like, different narratives, which is really

happens, each of them has their own pain, each of them has their own claims and emotions and from one of the other countries, as they say, they boil. petrovich, thank you very much, a very interesting and useful conversation. thank you, dmitry, it was a great game, we will meet on air next week. capital has one single vital aspiration, the aspiration to grow, to create surplus value, to absorb with its constant part the means of production, the largest possible mass of surplus labor, this is a quote from, perhaps, the most famous.

works about capitalism, capital of karl marx. hello, today we have gathered with thoughts about capitalism, its current state, well, and i think, many other topics that we will come to with my interlocutors today, sergey ivanov, entrepreneur, public figure, ilya kuzmenkov, media manager, entrepreneur, i am vladimir ligoida, we are starting, since we started with our karl marx, i started, tell me, and what do you think,

with a comrade in europe, a professor of a large business school, who stated that capitalism sick, that on the other side, here as if from scientific thought they also discuss this, and it is even known who poisoned him, here nilton friedman did just that 60 years ago, who supposedly came up with a very simple formula that the only goal of business is to earn profit for shareholders, here all social usefulness it has gone, but in fact of course it is necessary to take a few steps earlier -

that there is nowhere this ideal capitalism, which would change from country to country, from era to era, this is also clear that this is some kind of living the fabric of reality, and there are our intellectual abstractions that try to describe what is happening, well, and maybe somewhere not only to look back, but forward, we can more or less agree with this, we risk entering the territory where we simply drown in the history of the concept and its evolution. it is really different, it has changed a lot under the influence of the conflict with the soviet or communist idea, we have a big business abroad, so when we come to africa or asia, we compete with whom, with transnational corporations, these are just the representatives of the idea built

rather on protestant ideas of attitude to money and to work, and so when we come there in order to compete for something for minds for hearts. here is the battlefield, no, no, these are, these are young people, yes, we need to offer something, here are some meanings of our own in order to separate ourselves with something, i had an interesting experience, just approaching this topic, in february of this year i found myself in rwanda, yes, we, so to speak, read, followed, worried, i proposed there just mine, as reflection, or something like that, on the history of capitalism and where we are, i actually started my report with a question, let's try to imagine. and i capitalism is empathetic, human-centric, i'll ask you to imagine a world in which the benefit for the people of the planet does not exploit a person, but realizes his inherent potential, i say, it's easy to imagine, and how did they react, three

hands were raised, i mean, who imagines that it's easy, yes, i immediately said, come work for us, we really need you, and if it is difficult, but there are reasons for that, and what are the reasons, very briefly, the idea? this is a little more than 400 years old, the main idea, you mentioned it, competition, and the main rule, the main rule, everything that is not prohibited is allowed, by the way, it is written in our thirty-fourth article of the constitution, that is, in this uh model the strong has the legal right to destroy the weak, this is a very cruel world, to destroy, well, economically, well, that is, you can, so to speak, lose your business, let's say so, yes, yes, yes, you can, you must turn into zero, that is... competitive the struggle for me to be left alone, well, and what marx basically suggests there, if it is not limited in any way, that is, your proposal says that we can build a world of capital, where there will be many successful entrepreneurs, but no one will turn into zero, and we will, so

to speak, love each other, help each other and so on, this is a very big question and in general where to start is a big question there with business to start with the state community, it seems to me that with business, if we are in this... to start, but here we are simply in the formation we live, then exactly exactly from us it is necessary to the historical point, when nothing can be done anymore, that is, well, the number of conflicts accumulated in completely different areas, there man with nature, man with man, man there the future expected with with something incomprehensible in the form of artificial intelligence or man with machines, well, that is, something needs to be changed, it is somewhere the world is going in the wrong direction, and everything begins exactly.

the code generally proposed to consider the main main reason for the competitiveness of any social system, so if we understand this cultural code, then it is important to record a very simple thing in that system of social economic relations where we are now working, all the best

practices that have been brought to us, they were brought by western companies, well, since the beginning of the nineties, business schools have started coming here, all the famous ones, they are all built on the protestant ethic of attitude. to work, and there the attitude to money is a little different than in our culture, let's stop here now so that we do not lose a lot the value of what ilya sanich said? well , i'll probably answer this... the question that was originally about capitalism, i'm asking you to respond, of course, to important things that, i 'm thinking about it now, in principle , this position has always been close to me, i don't like this pre-periodization at all, it has this marxist spirit in it in this periodization itself, i don't know, remember this soviet joke, under what slogans, so in ancient rome slaves went to may day demonstration, don't you remember, long live feudalism, the bright future of humanity, that's it. has it become a bright future, that is, this is initially a progressive idea, so to speak, yes, that the world is changing, the world is changing

for the better, it is improving in everything and so on, so we are moving towards something, again historical practice does not show and does not confirm, that's what concerns capitalism, in fact, that's how it is considered that this is the 18th century, there england and the regions that are now called benelux, there they began to form capital, although in reality again economic statistics show that before the beginning of the 19th century

freedom, this freedom, economic freedom, i believe that it is not a feature inherent in any way, so, strictly speaking , capitalism as such in ancient times had the right, here is private property, yes, in ancient judea there was the right of private property with a ban on selling, for example, ancestral land, that is, quite strict laws existed in relation to the protection of property. different times, that is, not we need to imagine the present time as some kind of ideal or the time of capitalism, when another thing is that slaves were also property, and we imagine slaves as people, that is, legal heavy woks that drag them along to the kitchen, that is, while they cook there, they drank, no, of course, well, from a philosophical point of view, they were simply talking tools, they were non-speaking, that's actually different, different different rights, they were not people for people, it's... again, we know from the same gospel story, according to other historical facts, we know that there were houses, including the houses

of patricia, where slaves essentially used, essentially were members of the family, that is, in many ways it depends on, actually, all these ideas about a beautiful society, yes, in the end they depend on, well, as if the case of the performers always, yes, that same socialism was built in sweden in kampuchea, which is now called cambodia, yes, in principle , they built socialism there...

and how delicious will it be pomor-style? delicious, delicious, friends, very delicious, very delicious, life of their own, the premiere is on sunday on channel one, and today we have gathered our thoughts about capitalism and its current state, as well as what we can do with all of this: ilya kuzmenkov, sergei ivanov, i am vladimir ligoida, let's continue, i want to return to your theses, which...

therefore, strictly speaking, are you talking about capitalism as such, as an instrument where there is a free market, private property, competition, or are you talking about this cultural context, here in general raising the topic of capitalism, probably, with one goal, that we live in some kind of socio-economic formation with you, this idea has dominated for the last 30 years, well, this is just an attempt to think about it, probably, and it can be pushed aside and because really. different at different times, so if you try to look into tomorrow, just imagine, and what should a business be like to begin with, just a business, so that it stands firmly on its feet, so i proposed these three criteria that need to be thought about, discussed and criticized, the first one is human-centered, and what is it, and what kind of person do we

put in the center, and how do we with your company, and how do we define this person at all, yes, because in an atheistic world this is one person. in a world that believes in life after death this is another person, that is, it is already like today everyone is talking about this, that is, it is a very fashionable topic, human-centric business, human-centric culture, but nevertheless i am sure of it, yes, it is necessary to definitely not miss a person, because today no one needs him, he is like as if it becomes unnecessary, what does this mean that it is not needed signs of the times, yes unconditional basic income, and through a comma just. then the gaming industry here is the metaverse, virtualization of all this, availability of entertainment in this part, liberalization of the gender agenda, if you look at all this so detachedly, then i as uh as a person, just any person, he would say that some strange thing, this is what they are preparing me for, this is preparing me for

the transition to a vegetable state, well, like for something, to distract, remove and business. what kind is needed, and what am i, that's who we need as from the point of view of the consumer, who would not ask questions, would go to the shelf in the store, pay and still, well , like, the ideal consumer is needed, someone even says this, consumers are needed there, and what is a creator, and what is a creator , in general, what criteria should he meet, and this is a question, well, you can just dive in here, but of course we are talking about the creator here, multiculturalism, here is the wealth in diversity that must be respected, appreciated, because the monolith... is destroyed, all this is in the future, most likely it will not be sustainable. and the third is social utility. what is social utility? business can be done, like marx wrote, capital looks for a niche for itself, where it grows at maximum speed, with minimal risks. or it can be the other way around, that business is a benefit that finds a place in people's lives in an economically efficient way. in dialectics, this, this, this gives birth

to harmony. but the question of questions, which of these three criteria is the hardest to find. these are some individual people who should to be able to work in all this, well, i suggested calling them creative leaders, managers, but it won’t turn out that these wonderful creators, leaders, empathic, so to speak, human-centered and so on, that they will simply lose everything to the sharks of business, i think that the criteria for victory and defeat will not only be empathy, but many other factors, in general... it seems to me that there is a society, yes, there is, there is a person, we are looking for some ideal formulas, yes, we all want society was more fair, more human-centered, there, well, earlier it was called humanism, and we often come up with some hopes for ideal social, economic relations, which in themselves will make a person's life better and change the person himself, i would still bet

not on society, but i would bet not on society, but i would bet on people. on people, well, this actually echoes, that is, we need to clarify, because somewhere this has already been said before you, in my opinion, such a famous book the gospels, well, actually, probably, this is a reflection of the gospel thinking applicable to the economy on people, because , well, after all, in defense of capitalists, yes , here we have the word capitalist, we built capitalism, according to suslov, because actually, the suslovs knew about capitalism, that’s why our joke turned out a little wild, but... there’s a grain of humor in every joke, here’s the image in society, unfortunately, the image of a capitalist, there a businessman, it’s formed with a little bit of a criminal subtext and such a predatory shark, that means...

niche and run from here to there in order to increase, as it were, their manzhut there and so on, as it is vulgarly presented by marxism and , unfortunately, in our society entrepreneurs dominate - these are people who create to a large extent for the sake of creation, who are motivated by this internal, internal need to create, to change the world, to transform and so on, well, in this, well, as if there is no, well, as if theory and artificial construction of a social structure, these are simply people who this is an internal need, i am convinced... that the majority of those entrepreneurs who, in fact, made themselves and who, you see, are guided by this entrepreneurial logic, it is not what they say: this is ethical,

this is unethical, they should have been human-centered, they simply create, they create a world around themselves that transforms, it is clear, it is difficult to agree, well , more precisely, there are reasons why ordinary people can give such assessments, because i, as an entrepreneur, let's call this word, let's use this word, i have two sources of motives, to set a price and choose, well, a technology or a product on which i earn money. the first source, uh, well, i just want to do good for people and somehow earn money on this, values, the source of motives is another, greed, i want money, i want passion, humanity historically had a choice to somehow strain itself and agree on ethics and regulation of all this, but it's all difficult, hard, it would be easier to trust the market and competition. but in our company the word entrepreneur is prohibited, do you know why? why? and because there, that's when - i just want to earn money, and if

everything that is not prohibited is allowed, if there is no ethical norm, then the easiest way for me to earn money is to take someone else, not to take the effort that ilya is talking about to create benefit to earn money on it, the easiest way is to take someone else, who, an employee cheaper. pay, take more from him, the state, do not pay taxes, the client, or something , an unstable model, well, but nevertheless, but very effective, paradoxically, if there is such a big, look, macro-philosophical context, yes, that is, it is clear that well , if we look through, let's say, religious-philosophical glasses, then any such aspirations, they will ultimately run into.

the doctrine of the transformation of man, this is a christian doctrine, and a christian worldview, and from this point of view, yes, this is what transforms man, i am a little afraid of the teachings about society about the possibility of changing this society, transforming it within the framework of certain given ethical systems, as if pulling people under these, well, as if created by someone ethical systems, which are partly rational, partly irrational, contain all the morals, something else, benefit, well... it

consisted in the fact that the communists said that capitalism must be destroyed immediately to build communism, that is, the city of saltzey, and the socialists, therefore, were against this, that is, these were different views in general on the development of society, and mar, he kind of reconciled them, he said that after capitalism, communism cannot be built, because the old man is... ready, he is still a wolf, as if yes, he will be a wolf, yes, therefore it is necessary to build socialism, socialism is a change in relations and a change in man, the creation of a new man, here again we , how can i say, people who left behind the soviet era, we remember this as a mantra, yes, the creation of a new man, here the soviet man - it was a project for the creation of a new man, this is the kind of man they created, we recently saw once again - this pair itself, the old man and the new man, it is quite good. but not through, but not through society, and through, excuse me, existential processes, yes, through the transformation of man, through deep inner work of man, it seems to me

that the movement towards justice. and man is not ready for it, he is too old, yes, here an element of violence appears, which little by little develops, that is, into cruelty, into terror and so on.

volleyball, as you have not seen it yet? the channel one cup, live broadcasts on the weekend on the first, and today we have gathered our thoughts about. capitalism and its modern conditions, and also what we can do with all this. ilya kuzmenkov, sergey ivanov, i am vladimir ligoida, let's continue, if we return a little to the topic of capitalism, correct me if i'm wrong, after all, such a thing as competition, it is fundamental, yes, for these free markets, relations, competition, it is actually an incentive for growth and so on , that's how much for that system, and for that, well

, let it not be a system. maybe there are wrestlers, samba wrestlers, but there it is already different, there are already pain, there are already well, as if the rules as competition are built differently, chess players also compete, that is, the very concept of competition and well, the modern interpretation, it is more like boxing, here to destroy, even tougher, probably, than boxing, yes, these are more like fights without rules, and here the question is interesting, here is what, if we start from what feeds our vital energy, our cultural cat, yes, that's who we are, even

the word empathy, when we pronounce it, for us it means nothing at all. of course, and if if we add, and if we say that we mean the prefix so, yes, that's so, which almost every verb makes that very empathetic empathy, compassion, when i feel the pain of another as my own, this is part of our national trait, such people are not competitive in competition, because they push them to the sidelines, because they well fight there

hedonism, she calls them in her own words, love of money, love of self.

great outstanding compatriot, he said that we all have our own circle of pain, yes, there are people who are hurt when they are offended, they are hurt, yes, there are people who feel pain when they are hurt, their family, there are relatives, here he

says, a cultured person is one who is hurt by someone else's pain, that's what you said, you feel someone else's pain as your own, well , probably, this is generally such an ideal of holiness, sometimes as your own, but when you in principle feel someone else's pain, yes, when you are hurt. our wonderful writer and sinologist rybakov rybakov vyacheslav vyacheslav mikhailovich rybakov he says that any pragmatism in the extreme is fraught with betrayal, yeah, this seems to me

to be relevant to our topic, that is, if there is some kind of competition, which is based on the solution of some pragmatic goal, then in the extreme this potential risk...

this is all acquired knowledge, it will not go anywhere, to find a business from which the heart, something resonates in the heart, uh, what you want to do, you can be an entrepreneur in completely different fields, in medicine, in education, in more traditional industries, that is, to find your own business, to succeed in this business, to become a professional, to acquire subject knowledge, but if he wants exactly entrepreneurship, he is already somehow oriented, no, well, in this business you can try to start.

decided to become number one, will never become number one, but why are you doing this, what do you want to change there in the world for yourself, that is, to have a mission, no matter how trite it may sound from the point of view of such textbooks, but it is really so, the second is to remain a christian under any circumstances, then there is to put your

christian dignity first, not to lose it, under any circumstances, and business takes a person through different circumstances, through different temptations, when things are going well, when things are going badly, when there is a team around you, many temptations, many challenges, no, do not lose your christian dignity under any circumstances, can i add about christian dignity, in general about metaphysics, we have touched on this topic, a year and a half ago i ended up in kostorika... and i show this slide to the consultants and to me they say: remove this slide, why? it's very indecent, it's uncultured, you'll offend half the audience, and in general you don't do that in polite society, biblical quotes, i'm like , well, okay, i'll remove it, i made a poll on my channel, is it decent, indecent, 30% of me say: remove it i... it's from and a quote from the gospel, i

ask my comrades among believing businessmen, and what was the quote, seek first the kingdom of god, his truth, everything else will be added to you, i ask if it's possible, it's 50/50 for me, like you, where are you going in general, and i still have to redo it, i 'll redo it, eh, well, in general, i'm flying, a 36 -hour flight, well, like someone, well, one priest blessed me, says, well, this is possible, this is how it can be redone, yes, i'm driving, well, to put it, not to put it, somewhere in the middle of the road, yes, but you won't call me again, well, i return this slide, well, and like at the end of the speech i bring it out, i don't read what 's written there, i just pronounce the words, i say, i'm an orthodox christian, for me this is a very important system of meanings, but it seems to me, it in general, it concerns everyone present, because this is the formula for success of a modern creative leader or at least a message about something important from the past for us, how can this be translated into our modern language. seek first to do something

useful for others, for whom, for others, for your clients, buyers and for employees, everything else, whatever else, business, revenue, profit, will definitely be added to you, amen, thank you very much, dear friends, sergey ivanov, entrepreneur, public figure, ilya kuzmenkov, media manager, entrepreneur, i am vladimir legoidin, today we were gathering our thoughts about capitalism, well, in general, we talked about a lot. it was very interesting, all the best, in our history there are many contradictory personalities, characters, but if i were to make a rating on this matter, then, probably, in first place - i would put pyotr chaodaev,

this man loved russia very much and scolded it mercilessly, with open eyes, well, for these open eyes he was, in fact, called crazy, and it was his imperial personally who declared him crazy his majesty nicholas i, and this is probably a unique case not only in russian, but also in world history, when the tsar himself, the emperor, yes, makes a medical diagnosis.

from this, just like the decembrists, he was a freemason, and he achieved considerable degrees there , he entered the masonic lodges. from prosperity, that is, from the organization where decembrism came from, in fact, the west influenced decembrism itself to a huge extent, influenced, of course, to a huge extent chiodaev himself, although from my point of view there is,

as a kind of paradox, around the figure chadayev has many such contradictions and paradoxes, he was, i would say, even more of a westerner, yes, than... he was always on his own, he did not want to imitate anyone, although of course, the fact that he had been to the west, and he had been to england, france, switzerland, italy, germany, of course, this left an imprint on his entire worldview, when he returned to russia, then... he was arrested, by the way, according to where he was arrested, for 40 days, there nicholas i demanded that he testify that he had not been a member of secret societies and so on, well, after 40 days he released, so when he returned to russia,

he didn't find any of his friends, so to speak, because they were all already in hard labor or in exile there and so on, and almost the only person in nikolaevskaya. russia with whom he became close, it was just alexander sergeevich pushkin, and pushkin dedicated a whole series of very famous lines to him, right back in the alexander era, yes , no, well, he continued further, so to speak, this friendship, it lasted, here are the famous, let's say, lines that are dedicated just chaodaev, pushkin, christomathy, comrade believe, she will come, the star of captivating happiness, russia will rise.

that allegedly he was so concerned about his toilets that he was late, and he was sent there in connection with the news of the uprising of the semenovsky regiment, and he went to alexander, who at that time was outside the borders of russia as a courier who was supposed to report the uprising of the semenovsky regiment, in which, in which his

friends the decembrists did not take part, but the future decembrists, but who were actually accused of this, they were then sent to different troops, although this uprising was connected with a very simple... thing uh to