to aspire, you smell the news now the un security council has voted to end its mission in sit down because of ongoing fighting between the army and the countries biggest power, military force less than invested as a criticized move. let's say the decision was inevitable. power, military rapids support forces um the sudanese ministry of enforcing each of us since april you and assistance mission in see don began in 2020 to help support the country during what was supposed to be a transition to democracy. voss woman to become a us supreme court justice has died at the age of $93.00 off to a long battle with os. i'm is a 25 years on the bench. sandra day o'connor became a pivotal figure out on controversial issues like abortion official hospital born and raised on the ranch in arizona, sandra day o'connor at 1st, find an outstanding law school performance, wasn't enough to overcome a meal prejudice and the legal profession. and i assumed everything would be

perfect and it wasn't, i couldn't get a job offer. and i was shocked by the have. but it was her experience as the republican state legislature and judge they'd like to present want to bring in to no money to corner to the highest court in the us. a corner spent the 12 years on the supreme court. as the only female member she dismissed those who said gender was sometimes a factor, because she interprets at the low. i always say, like a woman judge in minnesota used to say that a wise old woman kind of wise old man will reach the same decision in 1992 a corner was the crucial voice and reaffirming the courts lunmark legalization of abortion. but she joined in upholding sex and restrictions, in other cases, she had binds protections for young girls, harassed in school, finding the schools liable. significantly, she joined another one majority of justices appointed by republican president to

stop the vote recount in florida, which gave george w bush, the presidency in 2000. some critics claim she showed her by his office by reportedly expressing disappointment privately that his democratic challenger. i'll go ahead one of the popular vote for the corner of liter defended the independence of the quotes charged against assaults on judges with partisan attacks and political pressure mountain. it's much more difficult to achieve fair and impartial judgments. okay, that's it. to me my main site, i'll be back though the top of the hour and the coverage off the one cause that lots more information on website out there at home to check it out. the stream coming on the for my life is the senegalese fishermen to elected m p in the madrid assembly

fighting racism into thing. giving voice to those he left behind a michael and turned politician reveals how european over fishing an applicant forces has become a driving force for a regular migration. take your 3 buses, be a witness documentary on that. i'll just say around the war on gods as being waged on the ground and in the realm of public opinion, bring some of our core values to the test. what does the silencing of supporters of palestine say about the world right now? what are the consequences of sizing voices at times of war? and these forces and this is the stream, the best bet, okay, was given to me by an employee of this building. they said they were told they could not wear this badge because it was the palestinian flag in the speakers have been silenced,

accounts have been removed, this is cancel culture, it appears many submitted. it has been quietly fired from scream 7 due to her vocal support for palestine on social media. after susan surrender has been dropped by her agency. ready after some comment, she made a pro palestine really the article 19 of the universal declaration of human rights weeds. everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. but since demonstrations in solid hours and with palestinians where temporarily band. and critics of israel censored, fired, or even detained for speaking their minds. many of us are left wondering if free speech comes at a price since the last attacks and israel's war on gossip again, in october it's gotten even worse. we reached out to many potential guests for this

show. they declined to our invitation for fear of more repercussions. thankfully, we were able to bring a group of very important voices into today's conversation. rena workman is a law student at new york university. jack espinoza's, a member of the new proxy on sync up with at least the new anti capitalist policy and a student in paris. and how many rabbani is a director of cage and advocacy organization based in london, a warm welcome to all of you. thank you very much for joining us today. jack. i would like to start with you. is that so to your students and parents who are part of the movements that attempted to take to the streets to support a palestinian civilians in golf. but you are not allowed to do that. can you tell us a bit about what happened as well as soon as the tax on the gaza started the bombings. there was obviously a lot of people in france and in paris to and i wanted to take to the streets,

unexpressed, for solidarity and well, it was simply outlaw. it's been uh, only a few weeks since protests industries have been authorized by the government by the state. and at 1st, we had to fight against the banning of the protest. the 1st thing we have to do it and being with other organizations was take it to the courts because we didn't want to let our solidarity be hostile. and this eventually works, of course, the 1st couple of weeks. it was a band also by the courts, but eventually to pressure of the streets of just how many people in every city in france wanting to protest through the solidarity, it became invaluable. and people started taking to the streets. we had to fight police brutality to was a certain protest were police find hundreds of people at each of hundreds of yours . they took people into custody. and the repressing of course, is not over yet, but we managed to express our so they're already in the streets. and now we still

faced a lot of refreshing, especially in workplaces and universities. but the fight is not over. we marked a certain point. oh, we'll definitely get to it to other forms of, of, of, of repression as you say. but for us is obviously very well known for organizing protest suite. and we say that it's in the french dna to demonstrate all the time. and was it the 1st time that you actually saw protests being bound? you know, obviously the french government has been on an authoritarian course for the past couple of years with police brutality, mainly dis, summer against the riots because of the races. the police that killed the 17 year old guy in france, and that was even much more police brutality actually, but summer, it's not a new thing, certainly not. but when we manage to push them back, when we manage to make them afraid of being too brutal,

it's when we're as many as possible in the streets. it's one where as many as possible in solidarity and fighting. but i think in those protests are obviously, uh, not isolated. and as you said, it's part of the dna. but it's also part of just the story of the cat last past couple of years in there. i've been with us to for palestine also in the past couple of years in france, rena, in the us, the club down is taking different forms and a lot of it is playing out in college campuses. you were the president of the n y, use a student bar association with us until you posted a statement and supports of carlos time. can you tell us more? yeah, so i'm a law student at n y u and, and my role as president, i put in a weekly column to our student bar association newsletter. and on october 10th, i decided to use that column to express my own solidarity with palestine within 24

hours. i had lost my job and by the end of the week, the administrators at my school had removed me from my duties as president. wow, that's, that's quite a response. i'm mohammad. i'd like to turn to you. can you introduce the organization you're representing here today? cage. can you introduce the work you guys do in, in just a few words? it? yeah, sure. thank you for helping me. um, how organizations the human rights and jo and operates as a watchdog on government policy. and again, in particular, policy that's related to counteract, stream is counter terrorism. we've been documents that work. so it just depends on what we've done is we've been assisting individuals. we have more than $153.00 cases in which we're going to be and only people from various backgrounds, the facebook pression and restrictions based on the public. so the downstream in the past and sense the start of the war, have you received more calls for help? i?

oh, absolutely. i mean it shuts off completely because whereas most of our past work has been at the shop and all kinds of tablets and policy. and what we've found is because it's a, it's almost like a whole society approach that's been implemented from top down. government policies dictated unconditional support to israel. and then what's happened is ministers. education to bong police, all the way down to school, even implementing that policy. and teaches social work is parents, children or even facing a bunch of that, any expression of publics with it out see how this plan is being faced with screwed janine and evictions? oh, well, we're always going to talk about the wider implications, but i want to go back to a point that jack has made to the factor in france and germany and austria. these protests were initially banned by or for worse. he's, we, some demonstrators actually arrested for waving the palestinian flag,

or simply for using slogan such as stop the war or a free palestine. um since then of course, many of these demonstrations, these bands have been lifted. but i wanted to get your impression in terms of the atmosphere in these countries right now in the case of frost. what is the context like for even i don't know, organizing meetings and discussions about what's happening in gaza as well. the context is actually quite similar to what mohammad was just saying. every word in high schools and universities at the very local level, there are people obviously want to work and i want to meet up, want to express their solidarity because they feel that the fight of the palestinians is also verified and they want to be with them but we see, oh, the big climate of people being pressure, people are fearful, sometimes of expressing simple solidarity opinions. and it's not for no reasons at

all. because there was a meeting about 40 students in the stratford university who met up last week to discuss how they could mobilize for palestinian. the solitary and the police came to the meeting and started taking pictures of the people. so that's just a given idea of the climate. it's a climate the president's a climate where it's tough to express anything that doesn't go in the direction of what the french government wants and it's not so different in berlin. it's not so different. and again, uh, rena, what about in the us? can you tell us a little bit more about the atmosphere now? i mean, have you been able to defend your position? have you been able to, i don't know. even talk to your former employer about getting that job back. yeah. so i employer actually has not reached out to me and i was never able to defend my statement or say anything clarifying lee about the statement because it all happened so fast. and i think that, you know,

even at the university level with my law school, we're still not seeing this kind of the ability for people to be consolidated with palestine without it being framed as you know, supporting terrorism or not carrying about civilian life. and i think that's really harmful because that's not what we're asking for. we're asking for, you know, human rights to be respected and in this like gruesome bombardment of gaza. and i just think those are very different things than what's being for trade and read into our statements a solitary. and we're not given the chance to actually clarify that it's just taking in very bad faith, actually what we're writing and what we're saying. and that's really unfortunate, especially on college campuses and exactly, especially in college campuses. and that is, that is supposed to be the space, right. a safe space for the bank for the debates of ideas now. exactly. and i think it's even worse because we're seeing that, you know, students at undergrad institutions, even in law school as well,

but just the inability for students to do anything really and solidarity with palestine without heavy police presence, not just campus safety, but in new york we see, you know, n y, p, d, b called to these universities to physically repress students from showing solidarity whether that be in the form of protest rallies or citizens. and it's just a big hindrance to our ability to express our 1st amendment rights. we have those in the us and i think that right now we're seeing those being taken away. if you want to use those for some of it, right, it's to show support for palestine. and i think that students, especially, should be able to feel like they have the space to find their voice and discover for themselves their opinions on issues. and those opinions should not be dictated to them by the us government, by their university administrators. they should be able to learn and educate

themselves and decide for themselves who they want to be in solidarity with. and i think that's not what's happening right now. it is very interesting that you say that the importance of defending this 1st amendment because also it's, it's so important to bring more context sometimes into this conversation. we also spoke to nathan for a jewish officer who says, criticizing israel is a lonely endeavor these days. he told us how his latest book was received and the implications of having less space to discuss injustice and atrocity in my book um a day in the life of that. but savannah came out on october 3rd for days before the october 7th attack and or, and there were many jewish organizations that were interested in hosting me and having me and of it together. we were traveling together and giving talks and some of them did follow through and dan to continue to have us speak after october 7th.

but many of them did not. and even those that did express great trepidation about it, they said that you know, in our community there's just not much openness to hearing this message. and we recognize the urgency of the message and how it's even more necessary now for us to understand what is the life of the palestinians leaving under his really rule. what are the reasons that we have not seen and the end to this occupation of over 5 decades, and that that space is really strong. the immediate implications are that it's much harder to a speak about this issue. be to understand it and see to, to have uh, you know, public opinion move toward actually pushing for changes that will address the core reasons that this conflicts continues. and this blood

shifts continue. well, how much do you agree to the space for the base is actually shrinking and the, the idea of criticizing the government to of israel being considered and to symmetric actually is that's a very dangerous precedent to and is being used to silence voices across the world . yeah, absolutely, i mean the cases that we're dealing with we can go on, you know, struggle, factual evidence, play to patch them. that is think is that number one, the cases are for order for society. the number 2 usually involves allegations of anti semitism. and one, when you go to the dba and you have to wrap it, you realize actually the people who are being reported was simply criticizing as well as a, as a scientist set the colorado state who even less than by they was in the opposing

genocide. the gymnast auto policy, but somehow those 2 are finding the complaints, interpret, run of that a somehow to the end, to judge and to submit tick. and then these innocent people are getting reported to the employee is sometimes the getting reported through the institution that they work. and if it's the interest and i shouldn't have service or the education industry. and then one particular disturbing patent that we've noticed is we go around a dozen cases with mosques in the u. k. have now been reported to the child to regulate. and if you can look through the cases, you find that the accusation is that these people have been making praises and those prayers in dora to add to making love. and even those do i somehow they said something we should have to submit to. so we've got to a point where a section of the nation state government is intruding on the private space of

religious freedom. and these must mosques have been reported to the regulator that they find themselves now dealing with the legal consequences. and so, so that's the pattern was inc. and another broad feature of what we think we can we, we realize is, and i've mentioned the 153 cases. but if you ask me how many of these have actually designed to criminal charges. so it's less than fine, which means the effect is to create maximum publicity, creates an environment of lots of intimidation. to criminalize people. get them both to get them arrested in some cases, but ultimately ultimately be there's no criminal defense being committed. so a lot of these people, they're harassed through the system of criminal justice, but been found to be innocent. so that's the bottom, and that's being created

a climate of intimidation in order to destroy people from public to showing. so the direct tv. but as we've seen, the model across western countries in the capitals is not working because people are still coming out and developed. but how alarming is it for you? well, how about this? this tendency of this, this attempt at least to silence these voices, especially in countries that are supposed to be the cause of freedom of speech as well. the people because he's extremely stalled, because you only have to go back to your maximum to use and you realize how the same societies deal with the credit and how all of that is framed. schools we mentioned the schools were encouraged to talk about ukraine. schools were encouraged to raise bundles for victims of that conviction, but the exact same school was the exact same institution when it comes to the

palestine. situation where innocent people are facing genocide, they're actually come down and they have, they're being criticized and sanctioned even in some cases for me and are you talking about the subject and public? so the hypocrisy stop the double standards on extremely c a. i'm in a sense, i think the public is, is now very much of a weight to the reality, the traditional media and the politicians and the others. they seem to be very, very kind of isolated at the moment because of the general mood on the streets and online and especially much younger people is that they can see through these people present double sided. it is just very, very clear. and they simply, these lines will be posted in people. oh, really i see you shaking your knowing that they are connected to. can you get us your, your take? yeah, i think so. you know, something i've been learning about this situation is this double standard. and i

know that in the us, one of our non profit organizations post i legal has done to the palestine exception to free speech here. and so we're seeing this where, you know, some people can talk about these issues in other circumstances like in ukraine, other instances of war and genocide. those are fine topics to talk about. and then especially in the classroom, since we have all the discussions about the colonization and what that looks like and how you know, past atrocities are wrong and it can't happen again. and here's why. but when we want to talk about these issues as they happen currently, for example, in palestine, we are told that, you know, now is not the right time, or we're not educated enough on the topic to talk about it. and in fact, you know, universities have been actively suspending or prohibiting a teaching events from taking place at all. so you know,

we have palestinian speakers who want to talk to us about these issues that we do have the information and that we are educated on the topic. and instead they're being met with cancellations or rooms not being available to be reserved. and so i think this idea that you know, that some things are worth talking about and some aren't is really harmful and it's very clear to students, you know, we come to these institutions to learn. and so when we're being told that some things you know, are worth learning about, or we're not allowed to learn about, we see that edits not a hidden thing for us. and we recognize that for what it is. and i just hope that, you know, going forward these universities and these law schools understand that because we're students, we are very bright. we come to these institutions with a lot of qualifications. and we see that and where concern that our ability to learn is being tendered. in this moment,

i also want to talk about the very concrete impact of losing a job which has happened to you all over the world. there were reports of people being fired from their jobs, which obviously has very concrete implications on people's livelihoods. we spoke to one attorney based in canada who posted on her linkedin, offering free legal aid to people facing academic or professional discipline. she told us what happened the day she put this up and well, you can do if your face a similar measure is at work or at university. when i uh, hosted on linkedin uh, within 2 days i had received about 60 calls and uh, in the weeks following, i received about 50 calls every day. um, and although i didn't keep accounts so i must have been contacted by at least 200 or 300 people. and so i continued to becomes like that to this day by people. the

1st thing i would suggest is that people get in touch with the local lawyer. and i don't say that just because i am a lawyer, i say that because it's a lot of the time this affects people's livelihoods, right. and it's incredibly serious to them. it can affect the future, and so i do recommend that people get in touch with a lawyer to figure out their options. and i say that because it is, it can be very scary. an isolated thing to be singled out called out. um, so speaking out about an issue um including an off house side its graham right now . um many countries um save themselves free beacons of freedom of speech. and indeed, in the last few years, there has been so much debate about freedom of speech where speech that very fairly can be seen as hateful or repressive has been justified as simply free expression. and now in contrast, we have ordinary people, students,

academics, football players, simply saying we don't want palestinians to be killed. we want to cease via and somehow that is seen as hateful and not within the limits of freedom of speech. and we're almost out of time would you have anything to add to what new or just. a there yeah, and we've seen that puzzling that every single control so close to across the europe. i mean people are doing their jobs right now. we're supporting a painting shift search and he's a vascular surgeon. he's been suspended simply for some post on the line. so it is a widespread, systematic policy. if you look at germany, you have to only get other day pay and joe goes on to his band, right? so overall, the pd job that he's emerging is

a systematic impression. it also has to be said here as well. everyone is now completing the as little space in the, in the international voice called international goal of inch, naturally resistance. because it is quite clear that wisdom, governments and their political need is, can very publicly support magenta sort of policy with knowing percussion. so mean one, as i said before, made one the wonder to meet the people who over the nation, the citizens of these countries, they can see through that. so the media is complicity. genocide of policy is also being established. but with all of the public opinion is shifting and he's really easily forgettable. oh, i saw you all not doing there to oversee the dangerous statement of losing faith in international law. it is a part of a pretty big picture of the one we end the show with, but i would like to thank you. none the less for joining us today. jack rena.

and mohammed, thank you for your time and also of course, thank you for your courage. and thank you for watching. if you have a comment about this episode, you can talk to us on social media. if you have a conversation or a topic that you like to flag for us, this is very much your show and we are always open to your suggestions. you can use the hash tag or the handle a stream, and we'll look into it. take care. and i'll see you soon, the this is will weeks of to read, shall rain has done to towns, villages, and farm land on the banks of the tunnel river. more than a 170000 people have been forced from their homes by floods, hearing kenya from the heavy cold, even really get a sense of the scale of thieves gloves and thousands of farms the beams of managed

crops destroyed. and this comes of the back of one of the ice browns in that region in about 12 feet. yes, scientists say the climatic trends can only be stopped by a global reduction in common emissions. many people here can barely afford fossil fuels, but they pay the highest price. in unsettled tax upfront takes on the big issues, avenue, democratic nations justified this kind of behavior is not piece that is being talked about. it is war, unflinching questions, rigorous debate. we are behind the mass that goes that that are being cut it out by bolts. clinton young, who is to go and there is collateral damage. there's collateral damage, that's more reality is leading to what we're seeing now in the grounds, of course, susan upfront without 0, our coverage of africa is what i'm most proud of. every time i travel, whether it's east or west africa, people stop me and tell me how much they appreciate coverage. and our focus is not

just on that suffering, but also on a more top listing and inspiring story. people trust to tell them what's happening in their communities in a p a and i'm biased and as an applicant, i couldn't be more proud to be part of the a fit. and the in garza is israel continues, is renewed bombardment kidding. at least a 178 people in 24 hours. the money in sight, this is out, is there a life? and i've also coming out the u. n. williams, that medical aid fee.