there's a problem. this is just the beginning. we want to work with the government authoritarian to encourage them to make more progress in the defense of human rights and to human rights defenders carry their piece from the germans, were without fear of price, the fusion back to the gauze of war. now traditional facilities during the christmas season have been cools off. in bethlehem, the city and the occupied west. spite usually attracts thousands of people over the period. the abraham has more the baby jesus amongst the rubble and twist to the tradition and that to be seen to reflect the image is coming out of gone. so thousands of palestinians are fear to be buried under the winds of what was once their homes of the images here. i'll see my guys and the shepherds looking for for jesus. we get the lights on. as if to say that is a small price of hope. in the midst of this destruction. during the christmas

season, eyes turned to bethlehem the birthplace of christianity palestinian. see, they can not turn a blind eye to the left. this is really bombardment of garza if jesus is to be born again. this time this year he will be born in casa, under the install, a deputy with the people of us. so this is all the city looked in early december of 2020 to join us and bracing to receive more rooms during one of the highest or 6 seasons. this is a major square near the nativity church. the tree should have been put up here, but it will not be installed this year. there are no lights, decorations about the city and state instead of celebrating which should have been a festive season. there no united in pain with no particular rooms or visits or is coming through the city. the majority of the hotels shut their doors

and as you saw, the whole empty in a of the 2022. the hood was pretty booked for the period from october. it did the end of the of the dismiss, overshadowed by war celebration may have been cancelled. what's prayers don't stop? well, see below that, his help is to any dive of bethlehem. in his sermon, he urged people to find hope, despite the darkness in many years, see all they want this christmas is peace. but that seems further away than ever need that, but he and just, you know, that's what have the coupon with thing. okay, that's it for me. mounting side coming up next is upfront to stay with us or on counting the costs as well as worn dollars as whites out of time neighborhoods.

so who pays for the damage of john buddies borrowing live at spock? a bunch of crisis costs grow for its desperate to be reform. plus saudi arabia and china looked as frank. some financial ties. counting the cost on al jazeera, as the death toll continues to mountain palestine. how can a diplomatic or political solution be cheap and has the west helped or hindered efforts the in the conflict with last, the former printed investigative of israel and the united states, gerardo wrote in an upfront special the, your honor roll. thank you so much for joining me on upfront mr. ro, until very recently, a french president and manuel my chrome was one of the only western leaders to call on israel to actually agree to a cease fire. and guys the saying that there was quote no justification for attacking civilians. why do you think my chrome was the 1st to speak up on this? what actually in the service it?

so it was a balancing act because the very beginning of the crisis has made very, very employees highly dig a ration. and d as being criticized afterwards. uh, to be unbalanced. they're really deal francy is that we have the 1st jewish community. oh, don't to united states, and we have the 1st, the most important muslim community in your hope. so there is a partner about balancing act because between these 2 communities because of course, uh the defends use off mainly supporting his child and the french mostly. and so mainly supporting the battery cm's. so it's, well, i should say it's a, it's not on you and it doesn't show a problem for us. he's also a domestic boy to go to problem. so the find sure authorities are, can be doomed to find a ride to balancing position. it's interesting to because even though it's a balancing act, as you say that chrome was still able to speak up before

a lot of other people in the you. why do you think my problem was among the 1st to speak up about this? well 1st i should say that most of the european countries and the majority of the world beyond countries because of the harvest men because of the atrocities of what have my says done are mainly our shoot. 14 hours your bulging is filed around and that is also the problem and studying the memories sending from the 2nd world war, which makes most of the a little bit and countries very cautious about criticizing about could you sizing is filed, especially that's especially to gaze off of course, of, of gemini, most of the, all this is down your building countries, all facility use, your board, you use high or whatever you file is, is doing. so, you know, sense it was up to friends, to try to a, to speak up. but as i've told you, it has also to be uh, to have a balanced approach,

very associates higher end versus the better gm's because of our domestic constraints. is that why it took so long to call for the things where we were still weeks into the environment? 11000 palestinians had already been killed by the time he called for a cease fire. what caused the delay? well 1st i think you have to understand that uh the description of the atrocities committed by to have mass as created. i should say a lot of emotion in there. you won't be in public opinion. what happens when, how much has done these sol renders be owned and you description that, you know, says everybody has considered that each file has the right to defend itself. and that you, in any case, the immediate area probation, you guys eyes very difficult because of, to me, you have a self, you not be terms. so i think it does being a slow process of willy,

off of moving for really the, your been baby continue and that's been moving to washed of board or standing there, use highly use, you know, the die mass come all for truce, all the die mice come for a ceasefire on november 20th from twitter you, you said it's not being a military expert. i refrain from commenting on the is really operation in gaza, but i do not see it's credible strategic objective. now, here's will, of course, states it's objectives, are a return of all hostages, the destruction of masses, of military capabilities, and how much is governing capabilities up? why do you believe that these objectives aren't credible or strategic? you know, that's, that's the question. you know, really on one side, uh, you know, when, if your issue where there is plenty going month on october, the h. uh, the question mark is water is why you go ahead and get that done. and it was not

going to negotiate. what would that be in your advice and your advice would be, well, you have to negotiate with the high mass to get the release of deal stages because it would have from there. and we only talked or strategic victoria, you have to have mass. now i think donations, you made quite shown is, what is the start? did you go off of the off of these higher because, you know, is higher, keel was and actually is killing some high mice achieves is high, all calm, destroy and these destroying. so i'm how mouse infrastructures, but at the end of the day, we know that there will be in you have mass cheese younger, you know, coming uh you know, where your items into a free moves and needed to every infrastructure we'd be able to build. so you've got an doubt saying to this, to go really same set to day, but what, what is the goal of these filings?

and at the same time you can say, but use high l was a life too long attribute to real or engulfing should be based on what you just said. one could believe that is real, has no choice, but to accept the long term presence of how may i ask if you're saying that they'll always be reproduced. there will always be new fighter is new structures, new weapons, new sources, new resources. if that's the case, it is, is real to just accept the existence of her mouth as a practical matter to the problem. and again, the atrocities of october, the 7th. it shouldn't be considered only has really a one time event. a task created a new situation where for a need is how you government in the is why you don't, i'm not, it will be impossible to negotiate with you to have us. it's, it's, it's really so renders that only data. it's such a natural, total amount. and if it's a natural or full, my 1st got to us to do is of course in a human sense,

but also this touches the feet. so it's really a and that's the reason why i'm quite presume estate because i don't see i don't see any way out to be frank. because if i could think of a strategy, think totally of the file. i would say ok now going to to try to, to, to, to reach this the school, but i don't see it. but at the same time i don't see, oh, we could definitely and you negotiation. so i, if i fear that we haven't, you know, did there and, and that is why at least going to go on being bone being, getting mom being but i just, at the same time, you know, really, if i use that, you raise guys up what we'd be different because how much we're still be there. we're still going toward the territory. so it's a very, it's a, it's an already goal. it's a 20 and only boy situation. you also said the october 7th massacre was not only a human tragedy you say, but also a strategic defeat. for israel,

the mit of it's in vital lability is broken. it doesn't have any credible way to restore it. if that's true, is you say, what does this mean for israel moving forward? what's at stake as well? the soonest? it's impossible to identified. i should say, your and state over the operation, which one did i store the up? so with superiority g off of the is highly a media jury, a practice that there is a big question mark for, for you style and, and the future. you can have, i think, 2 ways of uh, forward one would be basically saying, let's go back to the play october's or 7 situation. we're still really best a best morning drawing, assist them on the borders off of the guys that sweep. really, you know, sounds going back to the stage of school before having given or less and put it

back this year. and so, you know, trying to think in terms of these heidi's, you know, you know, sense what they did a inlet, but no need to 106. you remember that way? it was there. you can make a comparison because the as well i had a success. oh, really unexpected success? kidding. i think age is heidi soul use. there is heidi is a really invaded lead, but no, that was no identifiable objective, but at the same time, during that structure, this was search that the next call out to adopt her as well. i was obliged to apologize to delay by niece, and i'm sure that it starts from getting on to day folder as board are not doing job, you know, to bring back the destruction of a button dirty by nice dirty, but useful relation. so maybe that's watch these higher, these are trying to do the really making uh, the, the population of guys i suffer so much that next time i think the people are more dial to have boss never again, that's may be an explanation. i should say, no,

says i think it's the most likely i would come of these crisis and that would be a 2nd way forward, which would be, are negotiation. but on the, to watch the 2 states orders, right. but negotiating, you need to sides. and as i've said, there is most bodies inside because the body shop to the door, the storage is credited. you know, it does not face the election since 2006 and have minus after what you does done is not acceptable. but these are the side item, neither. you don't have a side full negotiation because the front right. got hard, monday's 25 government. you still 3 against the idea of creating about asian state . and actually it was in the process and easy. the process of next thing was very last week. prime minister benjamin netanyahu met with members of his party. and reportedly he stated, quote, i am the only one who will prevent a palestinian state in guys up and the west bank after the war. this of course,

is contrary to the us and he, you positions which of strongly advocated for a 2 state solution. do you believe the u. s. the, what other western countries have the cloud to pressure israel into a political resolution with palestinians as long as nothing? yeah. who remains in power? no, i think it's, you know, that's, that to us before he died was i was making the both sides of today unable to go to peace by themselves. as i said, nobody in leadership. and on the other side you have a nice, highly fat, right government. and it's not all ready to question over they've done. yeah, we're in sales because you've got an improved i don't. yeah, we use 40 degree dad after the what happened on october the 7th. but what i, i would think is what matters less than the, uh, the government enjoys, or at least where you saw the public opinion. because the majority of the site email that'd be continuing, i think, is, you know, do you find these all,

i'm not joking. i'll not working for peace now looking for security because it's a very because of the treasury, the story of the jewish people. uh ego. and if you can say, but these higher, these are secure g super power. in the end of the day, at least actually these people are really deeply in 6 your and our duty. convinced that actually to buy this, you want to to give them to expel them. and of course, have joe don't go to simmons, it does have a inforced, they are a security. so what you have to do is to convince the this how the public opinion that actually is there are 2 states. it would be more peaceful and more secure for them. so since everything is blocked between both sides in the gym for, it will be very important if the hub countries but also the, you and the united states, you know,

really try to convince the ease hailey's that actually they can move forward. and so that's, we need a strong involvement of the international know to community it need to know the question of play. sure. because you know, putting pressure on you. so i never words. there is heidi's, are ready to raise these to, to pressure if they've gone through. the idea of security is, is that is at stake and, and on the american side, you know, more than they do it to us. it's not, you know, natick to or year that you are going to see the united states twisting the arms of the siamese even out of the door to going pain. i doubt that will ever do it, but you know, did already come in it, you know, the elect to oregon pain, forget it. so instead of the dog, king of prussia reading of pressure and again, and do so, i just don't care about your parents. i think it will be more, we have to be more positive creative

a and we being the just do you want the uh the uh the marie goes to dell. there is holly's. okay, if you accept and use buddies in state at 14 kito microsoft did. i leave at 5 kito metas off off the been cool, your now i don't, i shall know that bought a year. that's the package deal. you will be bought of do it for both of them. you do, at least maybe you'll go, you'll get an you wouldn't be associated day to day. you won't be in you and your donate to, you know we, we have to find a to be, to find, create the creative ways to breaking to stay mate in november, 10 french diplomats working in the middle east and north africa. i sent a confidential note to the french minister of foreign affairs in which they criticized president my crones. a pro is real stance. they said that it ruptures francis historically, as you alluded to earlier, balance to position on israel palestine. the french newspaper left the girl called

this a, quote, unprecedented gesture in the recent history of french diplomacy in the arab world. what does it say that they felt the need to write this? does it speak to a kind of wider descent within the macro and ministration to? well, i think, you know, as i told you in the very beginning, the 1st reaction of, of a menu item i called to the doctor, you walked over 7. so tired was really a need a conditional support of, of each child and, and need assistance. i think he went maybe too far and, and the results back to you really, you went too far because after that it sounded as interest you fighting and approving the mutari degrees. how do you find immediate our intervention? we've always gone sequences. what do use unprecedented actually is not the report of the different match, because of course, in the, the wordpress she, you are able and,

and you are allowed to make your own. your view is known. the fact was that it was made public and that's is unprecedented. because each age was of no more, i should say bureaucratic process made a normal, made public and we should of course have po that is criticizing the president. it, we seem similar defense internally in the united states. and similar leaks happened . there was a memo that was linked by political here in united states that said, quote, when israel support settler violence and the legal land seizures or employees excessive use of force against the palestinians. we must communicate publicly that this goes against our american values. is that a sign of hope that both in france and the united states, your elite hearing about the same effect that is leaking to the public, could be a sign of something here? no, and i think there is a strong difference between the fries in the us because 1st in terms of influence on the, on the region. but also in terms of,

i should say try dish and order light in mind. off i'm already gone for the c 235 to $2.00 days for the policy. the united states. as being for gauge now, are you seeing countries seems demand to read control ends in 1991 and george bush baker died actually has been 100 percent. your board change as your board changes file, which has not been the case. so for all, for french donations you between friends and do your end use, why it actually has always been a bit uncomfortable. but i think on the american side, i've seen joe biden and knows that you count, as i said, for different reasons willie elect or the results in the us. but also the usual is highly reaction to pressure that you can pressure willie each file. so we, yes, tried to nudge is file, you know, i, you have braces file i said to cross cover years there. and i show to refile that

di armies best friend in the hope that actually use fired we least said to me, to and, and unfortunately by doing these bumping into to upstate goals. one is that actually slightly is not listening to the u. s. as we say, as we see the sir to know in the, in the media gallery operation. and 2nd, is that actually it's very devising in the democratic, bought cheap in or in the us, that suddenly, which is quite new. you, we have seen a touch tone bought, i rarely bought off the demo. catchy bought, gee, the left of the democratic party to your, to your inbox, you killer, you know, suddenly becoming very crazy, very critical of, of a child which makes which makes of cultural bi, done very, you know, very difficult situation. go see the reading that we are, that's do you, the american softball ging in the 12 volumes?

i want to talk about settlement expansion. it's something that you've been very outspoken about. you've talked about settlement construction and attempts to remove palestinians from the occupied westbank as a form of quote, ethnic cleansing. you've said that this isn't just perpetrated by settlers, but in fact, it's a concerted plan by the government to continue to annex moreland in the west bank. can there ever be a, just a political solution when settlement expansion continues? you know, i've been always very vocal about the question of, of settlements because, you know, i was young but sure that we style between 200 free and 206 and i traveled extensively into words bag. i know a 20 very, very, very well. i actually reaching out the west bank, he's also in east joe who is that i'm and i've seen, you know, really the way the 2nd amends set to amend policy was moving forward. and i have thought to settle those and you know, the cetera is all very uh, really frank, what they are doing is to make a data you told your compromise impossible. because basically they make

a petition stage and boss impossible, big because it will be is now very narrow is it will be very difficult for a new site. you're going to watch, create them, and, and you'll come gina g, nobody's you in state, you're always or use and you set the minds everywhere. so, you know, says my, my stance was not so measurable or stage not even to legals because of goals set that have been done since after months are illegal on the international real where each of course, violation of the full fi, uh, convention of geneva. but i think it was for digital, you know, if we'd be leaving a 2 state solution, we should condemn a, we should fight against the set there. monday. saudi set them on policy. and here i see you're going to criticize, i'm not criticizing, not very goes, i'm not done very good, but you can purchase either. you won't be on union, you know, willing, you, the, the, you won't be in your, in your, in, in

a sense easily when he wants to have more or for rain policy. and a wants to sure bought a 2 state solution. that was, i think, the point and on this issue, it as really each would i being active. and recently, since october, the 7th, the settlers are taking advantage of the situation to do what they called actually, what they call you franchise. and i don't, i didn't find the item installation of the day or it makes it as a clean thing. you don't need go. meaning that they really, they do a join the village by the age. they do a 2170 lee or really they, they try to push the adult age. we've actually and the parties, israel can you the other way because you know the domain, you start off national security g 3 is how do you mean yourself national security is a really fascist. and i'm not using this were a really easy lead. this world is really of a fascist,

is being weapons to the settlers and, and basically they can do whatever they want before you go. uh, you recently stated that quote, diploma. the theme is not the long sobbing of the violins of autumn. it is grappling with reality, getting our hands dirty to piece together in, in perfect world, which will remain in perfect. it is moving within the realm of what is possible, even if it is not the realm of what is desirable. uh, i was struck by it and want to know what does this mean as a matter of practice, what does this mean specifically in the context of, uh, guys, uh, and israel or israel and palestine more broadly? you know, it's exactly, you know, really, it's a, it's a, it's very, it's a, it's funny that you, you are, i do it. i knew donna slated actually the 1st bar to use a verse of, of boy tree. and which was used to announce the day,

day to differentiate existence on the, on the bridges raise you more share your sleep of what do you, for instance, you know, when you told me why don't we put what you know, the us and your blood pressure on the on the east, how you go, my mind, i think has the deep real that my reaction was sort of free. i did speak reaction, which may have surprised the common man. dominion to treat really say what these to hear. well, do the world. he's a fair, was them are against all know going to do it. and secondly, excited. he's not going to gave it, you know, really oh, so i was trying to find something practical by dating. you weren't using board don't use to try to convince the if i need, do you saw the public opinion? so is to date, into account what is possible and, and you can do, you can say, but a, h h, in a sense, it's unfair that why do us to doing good?

we don't tuesday um, so these are these yes, each on fail, but life is not the same place. that's the that's, that's definitely energy. and so that's really, that's the way off as an expert trying not to express my opinion, but really saying to the people, i'm very active on the french media. and very often i'm quite the size of pulled out saying ok, i understand, you know, really for instance, of course, you probably nice to win the war because ukraine was to the gmail for the duration . but unfortunately there is a real world. so what to use and what, what she's possible, and so that's, that's what i'm trying to do in my, you know, most of my, my modest way. thank you, sir for your time pre season, joining us on upfront. thank you very much. bye bye. all right, everyone, that is our show upfront, we'll be back the

to as soon as the best i can only thing the rest of the letters are very anxious for the size of the test, the test to so they can help i leverage village. and if i can finish the process and finally get the process, this is the best way to to say that there's been to the guest one on the, on the test to take it. and i want someone to,

to the thought provoking ons, but the patient doesn't have time to wait for extremely unfortunate script. there are no quick wins and events or research od hitting interviews. do you feel like america is less than days of these days? or is it just a different full? i think that democracy is a process basically, entities do you feel that the fraction is already starting the g 7 in the us on one side, china and the brakes on the other? i think there is a huge piece of that to happen here. the story on told to how does era it is a tenant of turn, produce objectives these coverage. many parts of his really media are effectively engaging in propaganda or genocide. what these really military was telling us does not fit in with what evidence they have so far. and yet, on the fringes of his way, the public discourse and seeing more voices persist, sales,

calling the traitors. the listening close covers how the news is come to watch this space for where the story goes. next. award winning documentary is from around the corner, which is 0. the specialist rages. israel widens it's a solves on southern, gaza. is ready, ministry says it has hung eunice surrounded the i'm on the inside, this is out. is there a knife and also coming up.