a dramatize podcast from al jazeera and this season, re here from some of history's blogs, notable women, and unconventional and extraordinary office. i am 40 that kind of the company and this revolution of everyone in china new my state. you've heard all of them power it's time you have from these and 6 of hindsight is out now. subscribe. wherever you listen to pub, that is rails unrelenting devastation of gone so. but any horses still think that is dash us? we'd always be un security council says fine motion again. the slide criticizing is riley, early styling to protect lots of civilians, human rights groups, the american risk being complicit in war crimes. so all the rights, this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i'm told mccrae the you in security council has made 6 times to discuss the temporary stumps to the fighting and gaza since the war started in october, but has succeeded only once. on friday the united states again vetoed a draft resolution by the u. i. e. cooling for an immediate cease 5 that's off to the un secretary general, deployed a really use power to direct the council to take action. washington's move has been condemned around the globe. jordan reflected the view of many in the arab world by cooling the v. so a licensed as well to carry on with its massa. so how will american stance affect its relations with arab allies? and as some right scripts site doesn't risk being complicit in war crimes. we'll be discussing this and more without guests and just a few moments. but 1st, this report, by since and motor had an urgent meeting of the un security council,

cold by the secretary general himself. antonio gutierrez, pleased with world powers to night pine colt to stop the war and gaza. the risk of collapse of humanitarian system is fundamentally linked to the complete lack of safety and security, the for all the stuff in gaza. it ends with the nature of the intensity of military operations, which as easy as we lead me, think of sex 2 people in desperate need the draft as well to cease fire. the resolution demanded the release of all captives. 13 security council members vote in favor. but it was vetoed by the united states as long as the last claims to its audiology of destruction. any ceasefire is it best temporary? and it's certainly not piece in any see far that leaves from us and control of gaza with an art palestinian civilians. the chance to build something better for themselves. the u. k. abstained. so i think similar concerns on russia in china were quick to accuse us of hypocrisy and double standards use teaching that used to

live for these just to show the usa is trying to do everything i can to protect its ally and essentially prohibiting the un security council from getting involved to alter to you then? oh no. it's extremely hypocritical to keep talking about the protection of women, children and human rights. all these once again, show us what double standards are. more than 17000 palestinians and gods, i have been killed by israeli forces. pulse times on pastor said it was essential for the world to come together and get israel to end its campaign. if you are against the destruction and displacement over the palace team, people, you must stand against this war. and if you support it, then you are enabling this destruction and displacement regardless of your intentions. the u. s. has urged israel to do more to protect palestinian civilians

and backs pulls and fighting to allow humanitarian aid and to the strip. israel has an obligation to do everything possible to put a premium on protecting civilians and maximizing measuring assistance. but washington has consistently rejected calls for a permanency spire. it says it would only benefit from us and prepare the ground for the next war. that's in line with israel's war aims. that includes the complete destruction of the arm group. thank you, mr. president. over the years, us as be took more than 40 resolutions on israel added wiley accused of protecting its ally from international criticism, regardless of israel's actions and international law fins and motivating for inside story the let's bring in august now in the occupied with the bank has already passed the program director of the israel palestine and human rights watch. she's also co founded geisha and is

ready human rights group, promising palestinians, right to freedom of movement. and montreal, canada is moving rabbani, a middle east analyst, and the co editor of e magazine, general leah and in london is marks it in direct to add the sense that the you in studies at the university of buckingham, he was also a speech, right? that's a full met. you in secrecy, general banking moon, a welcome 2 or 3 of you. thank you very much for joining us here on al jazeera festival knock. if i can start with you, i mean, it was why the expected that the us was going to veto this resolution. it's the only country as we mentions to do. so why do you think it seems sit and not susceptible at all to international pressure on this issue? a very, very difficult to say, i mean the connection between the united states and israel is a deep and very historic one, but it's doing united states enormous damage. now, i mean, i would make a comparison really directly with 1956 and britain and foxes invasion of so it's

close at that. so i'm united states obliged the british and the french to withdrawal of this relationship with the israel has not become pretty robert toxic . one, and that would appear to be the view of very many americans and you just look at the demographics and you see that the thirty's, for instance, overwhelmingly calling for and then to this will cease by. so yes, i mean, there are, there are many reasons why the united states has had this historic time with israel . i think the older generation have a view of israel, which is based on uh, an idea of these valves and the 1950 sixties and seventies. the younger generation can see exactly what is happening now, and that, that is a problem for president binding that's close because it's selection yet next year. and it should hope many people are wondering whether it's helping to fund the election on a plane to but to don't from here we're going to get into the button and the effect

that it is potentially go to have on his election campaign a little later on but sorry, i just wanted to highlight that it's not just countries that have pushed back against the us. the number of 8 organizations of also called america route, saying that they are a polled and see international has said that like what the us has despite a callous disregard for civilian suffering. what has been the human rights. busy is stands on this, what's been the reaction to the usb towing? this resolution. so we're very concerned that the us is, is not backing. it's words about needing to protect civilians with any action, including you and secure to cancel resolutions, which could do a lot to make it clear that humanitarian aid needs to come in full stop and the violations of international humanitarian law need to stop full stop. so there are very concrete things that need to happen to give civilians and cause

a fighting chance to survive. be, is really military needs to immediately open its own crossings, which offer to allow the full panoply of life savings and monitoring aid as it has done in all previous hostilities. and the soldiers who are now inside also have an obligation to actively facilitate the distribution of humanitarian aid. at this point, 8 agencies have stopped a delivering humanitarian 8 except in missouri, south because there is no access under the law of occupation. israel as the occupying power is not only obligated to facilitate the supply of humanitarian aid by others. it is also obligated to supply on its own, to the civilian population. it so desperately needs it. and to the clear armies do this all the time. they bring to monitoring a 2 civilians who are in need and that is one of the many things that needs to be demanded. it has very specific and very immediate way,

like you say they're obligated to, to do all of those things that you outlined they, but that's simply not doing that at this stage. what sort of pressure and we have is that person need to come from. so that's a change to, well, the united states is, is backing these rarely government militarily and diplomatically. and so the 1st thing they should do is suspend arms transfers and military assistance to the is really military because of the real risk that those weapons will be used to connect further grades of uses. i suspect that would have an immediate effect on the conduct to these really military. they should also be very specific about what they mean by protecting civilians. that means opening up the crossings with israel ending restrictions on fuel and other life saving necessities via russell and stopping the use of explosive weapons in densely populated areas in ways that are predicted to cost the kind of mass of civilian casualties that we're seeing now, when it was quite remarkable. and the a few days ago when intone

a good terrace made the decision to invoke article 99 and lot of how it's played out with the usb towing. but during the veto house, some bullock was that do you think that was the right move or is it just been clustering on gutierrez' pot? do you think? i think it was a bit of both. um, i think it was the right move and what he in effect did is the, the fine uh, the is rarely gone slot. um, because of the strip and other catastrophic effect it's having on pulsing in society in the gaza strip as nato. leah humanitarian issue, which is how it's too often been framed, but he defines it as a threat to the maintenance of international peace and security. i think that in and of itself was important. of course questions can be raised about why he's waited this long questions can be raised about the role he has played since october

7th and what he could and should have done and, and hasn't done. but that having that having been said, um, i think the ball is not very much in the us court. i as, as your other guests have said, i think it's quite clear now that the continuation of this war is above all of us rather than it is really just. and therefore, what the us or does and does not choose to do in terms of the killing fields that they've got the strip have become, is very important. and i don't see the arguments about international law about the slaughter of civilians and so on. are going to have much residence in washington. i think i'm the only thing that will have an effect on washington is how it's direct interest, both in the region and globally will be affected if it insists on continuing to

stay the course and providing full military and political diplomatic support with these early is are doing the, this isn't necessarily the end of action at the united nations of pellet stones and best suited his route to take the issue to the general assembly. mike, can you just explain uh, how it, what and what exactly could happen next. and what effect, if any, it would have on the people and gaza? yes, well, i mean, it goes to the general assembly and if it's a 2 thirds majority, it can have an emergency session as it did off the russia occupied process, the ukraine. now the interesting thing of course, is that the majority of member states can then actually vote on the resolution, very rarely used. it's called united students a piece. and that actually gives the general assembly doesn't give it chapter 7, a binding powers. but a majority of members could take, as they say,

a all forms of collective action including the use of force. now collective action could mean potentially sanctions. it could be in a board cause it could possibly even mean majority of members, even thinking perhaps of making the state to about a start, a full member of the united nations. that would be interesting. that's a bit of speculation from my pock. my when people say, oh, it's not binding, nothing will happen. well, i mean, you just, we just don't know. i mean, the last time instance on false was authorized. it came to the general assembly in such a situation like this back in 1950 in korea. so up to i agree that the board is very much in the core of the united states, but it's also very much in the cold of, well, the pin and the vast majority of members days as we know of very, very unhappy about what's happening and they will be pushing and supporting, i imagine the state of palestine at the general assembly here in the days leading

up to this device, joan could be the white house national security council spokesperson said everything we're doing is trying to prevent this conflict from whitening. i want to play you a clip off and talking about the us as role and what is happening in gaza. let's listen and look. we certainly share the concerns that so many of others have concern, including the secretary general about the humanitarian situation in gaza. tell me name me one more nation. any other nation that's doing as much as the united states to alleviate the pain and suffering of the people of god. but you can't, i'm sorry. what's your reaction to that? basically saying that no one is doing more than the us to help those in gaza. i mean, that's the, it's actually quite painful to hear because the us is supplying the weapons that are being used to kill at more than 17000 people, including more than 6000 children in casa. so i, i mean, there's

a lot more of the cooks ton and by the way, another thing that needs to happen immediately is to obey refugee law, which says that pick families and casa, make the impossible choices to want to leave, to want to flee to neighboring countries including israel and egypt need to be let in. and in the case of israel, what i would mention is that 70 percent of the people in casa refugees, or the descendants of refugees who maintain ties to the hold that they or their grandfathers and grandmothers left 75 years ago. and they have a right to enter israel, not just us refugees right now, but actually to return the full stop. and that would be a really good way to protect them. let them go somewhere safe. and, and the same holds true with all the concerns about force displacement. the addiction government should also be opening and supporters and giving families the choice, the impossible choice of leading to save their lives if that's what they want to do . and as we've heard time and again from egypt,

a presidency that they're not going to allow that to happen. mon, i just want to, uh, bring to lights. uh, what the russian and best of the to the you instead out us colleagues have literally issued a death sentence to thousands, if not tens of thousands more civilians in palestine and as well. do you think that the us is now risk of being complicit in any will cronsa the carried out here? no, i don't think it's at risk of being complicit. i think it already is conflicts at in fact it has been complicit from the outset. i mean, once the not did states understood what israel was doing and there's absolutely no indication it didn't understand what israel was doing and continued to supply us with a high explosives, with the impunity. and in the international arena to

continue doing what it was doing. then it's obviously complicit and to the extent that prominent legal scholars are now stating that israel is either on perpetrating genocide in the gaza strip or is at risk of perpetrating genocide in the gaza strip . the united states is a d and a bedding and what's happening so that it's, it's not a risk that that may become real. it's been very wheeled out of for 2 months. so i would say, and jonathan curtis defense, he may have misunderstood the question. and thought it was being asked about what the us is doing to support the damage that and i'm killing that is really wasn't reflecting on palestinian society because it couldn't possibly have been serious with the response he gave. okay, mark, i can say, you know, the why the mean, but despite that, it has been increasing,

pushed back within the united states. all of it stands in supporting israel. you know, from the senior officials, the defense secretary, secretary of states and us representatives at the you, when you know, what do you make of that? how much pressure is coming on biden and his administration at this point in time as we see more more civilians being killed in gaza? well, i just want to say if i, if i may, in relation to what we were just discussing a month ago, essentially, i think the united states, not just the united states, but also have countries such as britain and germany. i knew full well what was being planned. i'm going to send because of course, a just before we actually began and cause the language was being used by any means necessary to do whatever is necessary. i mean, again you, what we've seen throughout is actually is recorded the intent to commit. what all was all wheel drive is that's not beat about the bush. and so we know

we've had this, of course, the 2nd off to the temporary cease fire. we had the pressure that was exempted by secretary blinking only is riley's to minimize civilian casualties. we keep on hearing this all the time. we saw it was already complicated, not being produced where people are supposed to move from place to place. but as we, as we have seen, an amount of help to that, but yesterday, the civilian casualties have continued to mount has been 30, it would appear to be more people have killed proportionate in before. so there is enormous pressure being exhausted. i imagine on the us administration, not least from american public opinion, but so far that as we seen that the tall. mm. sorry, what message does this send? israel does this, basically give them the green light to keep doing what that doing to, to bomb with impunity. look, the is really government is very sensitive to what the us says and does. and that's

why us action is so important on this front. and here the united states government was appropriately outspoken against the abuses against israeli civilians that took place on october 7th. and that was absolutely right because civilians need to be protected. i'm worried that they are not affording that same concern and consistency in terms of compliance with international law to posterity and civilians. and that really undermines the credibility of the us government and frankly, of international humanitarian law. it can't apply to some civilians and not others selectively, depending on who super powers happen to be allied with. it has to be consistent. civilians need need to be protected, full stop and the united states government has an opportunity to clarify, to the is really government that it is serious and consistent about compliance. and it's not just asking appropriately for palestinian, our groups to stop harming us or at least civilians is asking me is really military

to stop engaging and collective punishment of palestinian civilians and to feel its obligations to protect them. yeah. moon and defending his decision, not to cool for an immediate safe spot rather with the deputy us and best of the to the you in. so we do not support calls because this would only pond the seeds for the next one, because some us has no desire to see you durable pace or a 2 state solution. what do you make of that statement? do you think it's true? well this does he think that benjamin netanyahu and each of i've been v goodman, been viewed, would like to see a to state settlement and is really posted in peace. it's quite clear. and he's fishing for a pretext to justify the political position of his government, which is one of the as potentially unconditional support for his real as onslaught on the gaza strip and pulsing society in the gaza strip until its

interest dictate a change of course. and unfortunately, we're not, we're not there yet. so you know, we have to remember all, so we need to take into account the enormous disparity and power that we're seeing . now, this is essentially a conflict between occupier and occupied. and yes, of course, the laws of war, the to be respected by everyone. but what we have here is, is the final nails in the cost of, of the western constructed rules based international order that was established as an alternative to the international legal regime. and i think statements such as that by the us representative to the you on yesterday are very good indication of that. basically, you know, 11 set of rules for us in our friends and another for everyone else. me, mark,

i just want to bring to like what the french and best of the to the united nation said in regards to the u. n. and the security council. once again, the council has filed with a lack of unity and by refusing to commit to negotiations, the process is only going to get worse. the council is not completing its mandate under the chapa, that's their key. as president edwin has just called for the un security council to be reformed, saying that we have lost out hope and expectation of the security council. i mean, is it a 5 year at this point in time is failing, but of course it's not the you in the system. i mean the unit, the unit itself has been very, very carefully constructed. it should be working. but of course, we've seen instances with a, with russia and ukraine now with united states and israel with that stuff in the used veto, to completely frustrated through united nations. and of course, the most i knew they stopped in the united nations from it doing its job and trying to bring about peace and security and stop conflict from spreading. this pretty

clear as we've been hearing you and just finding it incredibly difficult to do his job on the ground, helping people. so it's not in the affecting the you in itself as an organization and well opinion because people play into un. i often forget to watch the video and it's only as good as member space a lot of debate, but it's also being affected, but it's really, really important work and getting food and water and fuel and everything else to, to 2400000 people who advise to be shopped into a desert coastal strip and that really is the ultimate failure. i don't just for a brief, it's a, you know, in a way, it's horribly rubbing us into the end of the league of nations. when the emperor haile selassie made that appeal. and a cold for the well to defend his country from italian invasion in bombing and the welfare of a send you as well. so if you up here and the world is not saving the palestinians

. yeah, well i guess with, with no prospect of of any blasting ceased by or any other humanitarian pause at this stage. sorry. can you just give us an idea of what's actually going to happen next to the people inside garza? i mean i, i think it's already happening. there are increasing reports of diarrhea and infectious diseases at overcrowded you and shelters. when the 85 percent of the population has been internally displaced. there are, there are assessments of severe hunger and in many parts has gone. so we don't even have the full picture because it's a frequent telecommunication blackouts and the inability to reach people in need. people are camping out on the street in gaza, in rough, in some cases with mixture tense. it's going to rain today. i mean, this is just, this is the stuff in the have to be this way. you know, there are very, very basic humanitarian in principles about protecting civilians that need to be respected and the could be respected tomorrow if the united states would make

a clear that that is what, what is required of its closest ally in the middle east. yeah. moon, we're going to go to a minute or 2 left, but the palestinian president deposited the decision constitutes a shame. but that will hold the us for years to come. can you just explain the legacy that it's going to leave on the united states as well? and it's all the supporters. yes, i guess the point i would make is a israel may be the rational state, but it understands it's not operating in a vacuum. what i mean by that is, if you look at the patterns of this really conduct, they will test the boundaries of the permissible, then they will look at the global and particularly the us reaction. and if they feel that there are no consequences for their actions, that they can continue with impunity, they will escalate. and if there is no response to the escalation, they will escalate further. so with respect to, for example,

the health sector in the gaza strip, they bombed into an ugly hospital and they saw that the united states was perfectly prepared to go along with their story that it was actually a palestinian misfired rocket. and next thing, you know, there's no hospitals left of the northern gaza strip and no one better than i load . so there is a very clear dynamic relationship between what is real does and how the west and particularly the united states react to and, and the way that they have provided is real, with support for the killing fields of the gaza strip. explains what we are seeing on our television screens today. all right, thank you so much. uh, all 3 of you. sorry bashi. moving to rub bonnie and mark said, we really do appreciate your time and you inside here on inside story. well, thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, l, just air

a dot com and for further discussion, go to all facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. i'll handle is at a inside story. to meet tell mccrae and the whole team here, bye for now. the god. for the past 6 years, the wars go. i'm related so fast. a lot of people are dying. a lot of people are under the rubble. 2 who's a piece of screwing pieces from see mobile and we up the way you go is fine. is most like a was it is a tenant of journalists to produce objectives. these compensation is true. i don't

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a role in solar energy harness the offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credit suspension committed to environmental protection, enhancing investment assignment to digital licensing. your better tomorrow the the hello i'm sam is a them, this has been use live from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. just slice destitute and with no way to go out to 0 speaks to people who fled to a small area of gaza, designated as humanitarians of palestinians recount stories of v things and full cha off the big, partially stripped interest advise.