and how do we live in occupied a serious them covering the lysis political developments. and in fact, we're here across the west bank voting as how this floor is not just massively attract singles and gaza. stay with us for the latest updates and detailed coverage of the war on gaza on the carriage austin in the top stories now on elders here the us defense chief is urging israel to do more to protect civilians and its war on gaza. lloyd austin was speaking during a visit to tel aviv way, also announced the wants of a maritime coalition to respond to ongoing attacks by who sees on ships in the red sea. these attacks are reckless, dangerous,

and they violate international law. and so we're taking action to build an international coalition to address this threat. and i would remind you that this is not just a us issue is this is an international problem, and it deserves an international response. and that's why i'm convening a meeting tomorrow. administer will meeting with federal ministers and a region and beyond to, to address this threat. serve an indications of a meeting and also involving the head of the c i. a guitar end is really officials to discuss the possible release of moist, where the captives held in gauze. particular height is following developments now from washington dc. so far we know really pretty much nothing even though. busy ca spokesperson wasn't confirmed that he was in poland. so why are people reading so much into this will because when the principles get on

a plane and go someplace that usually an indication that there's potential movement, they can send their under secretaries and to do the basic negotiations. but in washington, any way you don't really see somebody build birds a stature get on a plane. unless something could come out of that. he was there in the region, doing the negotiations between all the parties before this 1st cease fire happened . so now there's no indication, as john kirby said that it was imminent, but it is clear at least something to the by the ministration once to see happen. and bill burns, i want to point out is fairly unique in the by the administration. in his respect is ability speak in the region he with long term time diplomat, very well respected. so he's been given the charge of trying to make this happen. there's going to be a different calculus when you start talking is treating this really soldiers for palestinian prisoners. all of that has to be worked out. the fact that birds we believe is in the region, it is

a probably could be an important step is rarely strikes on the law and this, right. so a refugee camp in central garza of cube, at least 9 people. the 5 children were among the many people also internet, correct. i assume has more not from rafa and southern guns, the dairy bella, generally out had been on the east very intense plumbing during the last couple of hours. one of these strikes had claimed the lives of knowing palestinians, enclosing dirt by adam's i rocked refuge account, including 5 young children from the bottom to the same assembly were still also missing people onto the ruffles as the risk you operations in these areas. also continue. now at these areas as well. so let's go to say that had been on the east really relentless shilling from the hours of today's morning alongside with con

eunice, which has also been a center of the east valley at military attacks. and we're also a street battles erupt to win, the palestinian volunteers, and these really ministry soldiers. now the tax has also continued had also continued in roof where the number of the policy and have been killed in the latest is what it strikes on. roughly what drives into 8 palestinians, including 2 young children, which means that the civilian casualties also have verizon and the met the complete attacks against residential neighborhoods continues. um it is spelled is, exp, expanding its military operations hold. another aspect of the territory human rights watch is a tuesday, is rarely governments of using starvation as a weapon of war and gaza, saying is amounts to a war crime. the organization says that is a deliberate attempt to deprive civilians of food and water. there's all the headlines and these continues here and i'll just say this off to the bottom line.

stay with us. the, the weather brought to you by visit, cut off to hi, welcome to look at the international forecast to see some really nice the weather pushing up to use to see both of us. it's east of parts of canada, this area of light pressure. oh sweet pass. of the way as we go on through, choose dice that brought to weather coming back in behind a traveling wake, of course, in the run up to what was the holiday season. cool. a dry way coming back in behind me on the way of sunshine. i think so i missed some folks any possible that the central path, but for much of us not to canada, i still can find it. so i'll get out of the way you can see that weather coming into the west coast, looking pretty unstable here for tuesday and wednesday months of california. think some big rain for a time. little flower. yes, not a possibility either the rock is the seo nevada is also, i think, a little bit of windshield by the edge of the case to into west and positive kind of is just around central pos of b. c may well, so where,

where the pushing across central areas of the caribbean this same chain of the stones as the tenant of that system moving away from the east disabled of the us bring some heavy rain initially into heights a grassy pushing across into the dominican republic, some really wet weather coming into a place to say some dry weather to the greats around here. this will say some one west sunshine, the full jamaica few showers for the sonata is a few shouts close to western side of the caravan. lousy sunny the weather, brought to you by visit cuts on the hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question if israel's war has gone way beyond self defense to the point of making the gaza strip itself completely and livable. why is the by the ministration supporting it? let's get to the bottom line. the

in less than 3 months is really has killed nearly one percent of the palestinian people living in the gaza strip. to put that in perspective, one percent of the population of a mere or gusts would be more than $3000000.00 people. that's like wiping out an entire state like arkansas or nevada. and so far there's just no end in sight. hundreds of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, are killed by his really forces daily and almost 100 percent of the people living there are now displaced. that's 100 percent. they're desperate. they're hungry. they're cold, is really in us. officials are acting as if the palestinians should blamed themselves because from us carried out a surprise attack in october. the killed about 1200 is really soldiers and civilians. but when a country wages a war usually has a specific outcome that it's looking for. so what's the end game for israel today we're talking with one of america's most influential thinkers, john mearsheimer, professor of political science at the university of chicago,

an author of the israel lobby and u. s. foreign policy, as well as most recently how states bank the rationality of foreign policy. john is terrific to be with you today. thank you so much for joining us. um, you wrote a piece this week, death and destruction and gaza in which you said that we reached a point where there is simply no meaningful military purpose in israel's war. tell us what you meant as well when it comes to what is real is doing in gaza. you have to distinguish between going after home boss and punishing the civilian population. and when we talk about punishing the civilian population, we're talking about killing, murdering huge numbers of civilians, displacing them from their home, starving large chunks of the palestinian population inside garza, and so forth and so on. these are basically war crimes. i don't think there are

many people who would dispute that is real has what we call the right to go after him. boss mosse attack is real. israel's going after home us? that's not really a contested issue for the most part. but what the as rallies are doing is they're going far beyond going after home moss and they are inflicting massive pain and punishment on the civilian population. and in my opinion, they shouldn't be unacceptable to decent people all. ready over the world, and the idea that bind administration is not only sanctioning this but supporting it. it's very important to understand that the as rallies could not conduct this punishment campaign without support from the united states. they need american military weaponry. and furthermore, they need american diplomatic support and we are giving that to them. so we are as

deeply involved in this disaster, this humanitarian disaster. as these rallies themselves are, you find that there is a worry that america is on the wrong side of this. you know, i think there's widespread support inside the american body politic uh for uh, uh, the palestinian civilian population. i mean, i don't think there's any question that lots of people think the, what the as really is, are doing to the civilian population is deeply wrong. there's no questionnaire. a lot of people will voice their opinion on this issue publicly, and that's in large part because they fear that the is real lobby will target them and that will do damage to their career. there's all sorts of evidence that people on college and university campuses are self censoring for fear of the israel lobby . but even there, it's clear this is just widespread support for the palestinian people

and the wide spread criticism of what his real is doing. what do you, would you be advising president biden? early on in this conflict, if you were trying to advise him or the is really how to respond after october 7th . well, i think in the beginning the biden should have gone to great lengths to tell the israelis to make sure that they executed a measured response and that they did not overreact. and he should have made it clear that she would support the israelis against tomas. i mean he had no choice the hair for sure. but he also should have made it clear to the israel is that uh, if they went after the civilian population, the way they are going after the civilian population of the united states would go to great lengths to throttle israel's attempt to murder huge numbers of

civilians. that's what he should have done. we should be on the other side of the divide with regard to this campaign, this bombing campaign that the israelis are waging against the palestinian civilians. and by the way, it's not just the bombing campaign. these rallies are trying to starve a large numbers of palestinians to that. they've made that very clear. it's not like i'm making this up. these realities themselves. say that this is exactly what they're doing. if you will get with the israelis are saying about the palestinians, how they describe the palestinians talking about them is human animals and so forth . and so on. and then utah, you listen to what they're saying when they talk about what they intend to do to gaza. you know, they talk about flattening leveling it rad acadia. and it use very clearly that they are purposely targeting the civilian population and they are doing

massive amounts of joy. john is killing one percent of the population. and so many of us and people isn't a red line for the neighborhood, for egypt, for jordan, for other nations around there for the united states. or we all just in a, in a performance act right now saying, israel please don't harm civilians, please limit what you're doing. but we're watching. we're just help us and just watching a horrible scene just done full with no real leverage. yeah, i think that's exactly what's happening. i mean, just to talk about the united states, we have the potential to bring this bombing campaign to an end. we have a huge potential leverage. horror is real. there's no question about it, but it's almost impossible for any president including president biden, obviously,

to use any of that leverage. and the end result is we can say that we hope is real, will limit this campaign and do everything it can to minimize civilian casualties. but we don't do anything concrete, or at least we haven't done anything concrete up to this point to prevent these rallies from killing large numbers of civilians. and by the way, it's not just the americans, the europeans, are doing nothing themselves. the german is in the british, their behaviors, especially egregious on this front, even in the arab world, the, you know, see the leaks in the world doing very much to put it into this. and in fact there's all sorts of evidence in the world. it's pressure from below that is largely motivating the leads to criticized with the israel. these are doing

and it's a tragic situation. and it is quite remarkable in the year 2023 that these rallies are able to get away with this. what do you think is real once uh, if not a 2 state solution. oh, it's very clear to me what is real wants and we're talking here about the, the government. they want to ask the cli clans of gaza and they want to ethically cleanse the west bank. the problem that the is really say, steve, is the inside greater is real and greater is really includes guys a, the west bank and green line is real. there are approximately 7300000 palestinians and there are approximately 7300000 jews. so you have rough equality in the number of jews and palestinians inside greater is real. and that means you can have

a democratic state. and if you don't want a 2 state solution, then what are you going to do? well, up to now, the answer is quite clear is real, has turned into in apartheid state. it is in apartheid state. and these rallies understand that over the long term, this is probably not viable. we all know what happened to south africa. jen is really exist over the long term as in apartheid state. and you want to remember the groups like human rights watch. uh, amnesty international that sell them and so forth, and so on. have labeled israel as in apartheid state. so they wanna get out of that situation. and the best way to do that from their point of view is to ethically cleanse of the get to the gaza. strip and the west bank, much like they ethically cleanse. large parts of green line is real in 1948 and much the way they cleansed large ports of the west bank. in 1967. the problem is

that they have not been able to do that in the united states, much to its credit has at least said that it will not. countenance is real, ethically cleansing does, but we'll see what happens there. these rallies are punishing to the civilian population in gaza in large part, in my opinion, to drive them out. but they have not been successful. i, i want to play for you john, a clip of danny down on israel's former ambassador, united nations in 2019. and something he said about what's behind is reels, goals, listen, this is a deed to our land. it's only up the bible, basically the old testament to say this is the deed to our lands in the united nations. and i'm just asking you is sort of an analyst to say,

if that's what we're working with. and america is allied with that. how does this ever get to a different point than just an ongoing horrible convulsive ulcer? it doesn't mean this is where we are. and by the way, if you look at the demographics inside of israel, the people who are most likely to make the argument that was just made that you know, the bible is israel's deed to owning or greater israel. the people who are most likely to make that argument for the ultra orthodox in the old. ready orthodox now form about 13 percent of israel's population, but over time their numbers are going to increase gravely up to the point where and about the year 2050 you're going to have about 30 percent of is real close to one

3rd of is real will be uh, hold to orthodox and that's because the birth rate among over orthodox women is so high. this means that the argument danny did on was just making is going to become heard more widely in israel. it's not only going to be people like him, it's going to be more more orthodox jews making that argument. so this argument simply not going away. let me ask you about responsibility to protect because right now in washington, we have a couple of things tied together. american support of ukraine in, in the russia war, a lot of particularly those in on the progressive side of the foreign policy, we're talking about our to p, the responsibility to protect as one of the animators of american support ukraine. where are they with regards to the israel, gaza conflict, and the responsibility to protect the palestinians. you hi,

here remarkably little from them. they're all these people who have been talking for years now about the importance of worth to pay a new horton's of protecting human rights. and you would expect all of them to be wildly proclaiming the what the israelis are doing is unacceptable. and that the united states has a moral responsibility to put an end to all of this killing of civilians of palestinians. but you hear very little from these human rights proponents and from human rights groups inside the united states. uh, the silence is actually quite amazing. you know, when i watch polls and what's going on, it's very clear that younger generation democrats, particularly democrats of color. but it's really broad swap of younger voters. and the democratic party are very, very, uh, frustrated with jo biden's position on this real gaza. and you see it collapse in

their support and when you interview them into focus groups right now, they say there's nothing that's going to bring them to support joe biden. there's a more general problem at play here. and that is the israel has lots of support among people your age and my age. but once you begin to go down and look at younger cohorts, it's a very different story. there's a harris harvard poll that came out fairly recently. that says that if you look at people between the ages of 18 and 24, the survey them and you ask them this question. was a mosque justified in showing is rarely citizens on october 7th. we're not talking about killing the military. we're talking about killing civilians . in other words, was how much justified in what they did on october 7th, 51 percent of people in the united states between the ages of

18201824 said the tomas was justified. this is funny. and then if you look at people between the ages of 253-425-3448 per 28 percent. say that a moss was justified in what it did on october 7th. so you see this real has a real problem, and of course this problem manifests itself on college campus. and that's why the lobby is working over time. now to try to shut down criticism of israel and universities and colleges. and then his last interview, henry kissinger did with actual spring or c, e o mathias doppler. this is your said that the problem society is like the united states in germany had, was letting in so many refugees. so many people from other groups because they then become agents for those other groups for those other identities. and it just seemed

to me, one of the most remarkable in humane comments about the importance of others outside like palestinians. you know, i'm interested in that tension about race and identity inside pluralistic societies right now. and whether or not we're trying to wrestle that decency out of ourselves as well. i would come at this from a slightly different perspective. i, i don't like the kissinger argument about bringing the people from different ethnic backgrounds or different countries into the united states. the united states has an immigrant culture. i think that's a wonderful thing. and i have no problem with bringing immigrants into the united states. i think it's with may bringing immigrants into the united states in huge numbers in the 19th century is what made this country great and it's what will keep

this country powerful into the future. so i have no problem with immigration. the issue for me is how to think about realistic behavior versus moral behavior. when you think about how estate should act in the international system. and i fully understand that states have a deep seated interest in security competition for the purposes of maximizing their chances of surviving. and i fully understand that state sometimes do ruthless things to other states for good strategic reasons. okay? but at the same time, there has to be a moral dimension on depends how states behave towards other states. and as long as there are no sort of strategic reasons for realist, reasons for behaving ruthlessly. states should go to great lengths to act in oral

way. i have no problem making that argument and i think in the case of what's going on inside of gaza, a, b, e. there is no strategic reason for is real, to destroy alice than in society to, to huge numbers of civilians. it just doesn't make good strategic sense and i believe it is morally wrong. so this is why i am so deeply opposed to it. i think there's no question that is real, has the right. i use that word loosely. it has the right to go after a mouse. a mazda attacked is real, is real, can go after him, us, and i understand that is israel goes after whom aust is going to be collateral damage. civilians are going to be killed. this happens in worth time. it is

regrettable, but it is a basic fact of life, but it's very different and purposely targeting civilians for the purposes of inflicting massive pain and punishment on them. and again, this has no strategic logic is there's no sort of realistic reason for doing this. and therefore, i think it's deeply wrong and you see any chance at all america will in any time, you know, close to now turn off that tap. it's a rare occasion when the united states, but scores of leverage on israel, especially when it comes to dealing with the palestinians. and that's because any government, including the by did ministration, understands full well. that if we are to get rough with the israelis a we work to get rough with the israelis, the is real lobby would come after the administration hammer. and tom and the administration doesn't want that,

especially since we're moving into an election year. are we going to be complicit? do you think in the possibility of equations that are in fact ethnic cleansing? but there's not a growing clamor. i mean, there's no question that this is a powerful motive on the right inside of israel and inside of the united states. uh, the united states has made it clear the us government, the by the administration has made it clear that that's unacceptable. the question is, what happens if the israelis just do it? the one could argue that, you know, were marching towards the point where there may be massive ethnic clemency. if this bombing continues and the israelis continue to prevent of water, food, and medicine from coming in to gaza in large enough amounts,

it could be that the palestinians begin to move out of casa, and it is really do everything they can to facilitate that just hard to say how this plays out moving forward, but the israelis could just do it and just ignore that. what the by the administration is saying about what is it is not acceptable. so it remains a real possibility. and as i said to you before, you want to understand that these really is basically have 2 choices here, whether to continue operating as an apartheid state and to continue keeping gaza as basically a giant open air prison or the ethically clients garza and the west bank at the same time, if they can, now they would definitely prefer to do that and the, the administration is said, you can't do that. but again,

how that plays itself out remains to be seen. whether by the ministration keeps trying to save it at once, the ground war to end by years. and i don't let's see that happening. i see this as a story we're going to be having to continue to focus on for some time. john, i hope you'll come back and keep sharing your perspectives as this evolves. thank you so much for joining us, professor john mearsheimer of the university of chicago. thank you, steve for having me on the show. so what's the bottom line? israel's forces have destroyed more than 100000 buildings in gaza. that's on top of the killing of thousands of women and children innocence. and it implies a different objective in this war. according to at least one is really cabinet official. the emphasis is on quote unquote, damage not accuracy, this conflict, the baby is buried in the rubble of collapsed apartment buildings, the destruction of bakeries that provide bread, the pr reading of captured palestinian men and underwear. all of it is going to be

sir into the minds of not only palestinian victims, but all of us. there's no moral high ground here. there's no sense that isn't palestinian people matter in any equation. they were a burden and a nuisance in the eyes of many in his real, particularly settlers before october 7th. they are looked at as in human. the u. s . government is complicit in the horrors we're seeing. it's just nonsensical. it's an orwellian circle where america thinks it can both be seen as a legitimate ally of palestine to interest, while it sits coldly on this side of israel's and temper more machine that only cares about damage. and that's sadly, the bottom line, the the latest news, as it breaks, have you had released ascii as, as a photo 15 photo implement the shock economic plan to cut down government spending a fight inflation with detailed coverage. many members of the sort have gone into

hiding or varying arbitrary arrest motor and tossed.