the, the, the, this is the democratic republic of congo on a past to renewed violence. the opposition wants the results of the presidential vote for an old and is planning protest. so can post election tails via verdicts in the office infantry. this is inside story. the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm getting you navigate on almost a week on from elections and the democratic republic of congo voters are waiting anxiously for the results. the presidential pool was marred by logistical problems and credibility concerns. the electoral commission says early results show presidents felix jessica. he is in the leads. he seeking a 2nd term after winning the dispute a 2018 election, but opposition candidates are complaining of irregularities, invalid fraud, and they want the vote and old and are calling for protests this week. what happens if it's not? is this a recipe for yet another cycle of violence and turmoil in the d. r. c. will discuss all this with our guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from victoria gate and be in the democratic republic of congo, wiser on the national tallying center in congestive the electoral commission says the results favor incumbent phoenix trace to teddy a position to

say the election is a sham and no objective result. the head of the catholic church in the d. o. c criticize, you know is, is it the polls move in hoff is, kimberly is a catholic and the church plays a powerful role in a society that's been racked by pull the tea and conflict. we have just witnessed what might be called a truly gigantic planned disorder and variable images that have circulated following the select oral process. women strip naked, humiliated, beaten, and thrown to the ground. if it's for the sake of power, that power can never come at the expense of a human being. the d o c has a history of political instability, securities election, victory in 2018 month, the 1st peaceful transfer of power in the d o. c. since it gained independence from belgium move and 70 years ago, but even that was disputed chase of heavy promise change. yet many voters are

frustrated by the high cost of living inflation and rampant corruption. some displaced people in the eastern region of north key. the west fighting has rage for years, didn't, but this time because election materials arrive late and election observe is have raised why to concerns about the event, the issues that certainly that we will be making recommendations about. and we have been making recommendations about as increase transparency to increase the openness . there were problems on election day and not the city is not officially said. for instance, how many pulling stations opened late? how many pulling stations didn't open on december 20th? the has been all the dispute has elections across africa this year, including in nigeria, zimbabwe, madagascar, and the bone often resulting in violence. and in the case of the latter, amid that tree to the deal see is rich and minimal resources in arable land. but it also has poor infrastructure and badly managed towns and cities. the disputed

election results compounds such problems. so i'm in the d o sci fi, the country could spiral into violence again, victoria gates and b l g 0. so inside story will not bring in our guest, joining us from kinshasa as patrick and we, i, who's the spokesperson for the government of the democratic republic of congo in the coming. rooney and capital yolanda is mary rosie, i believe was an african affairs analyst and editor of africa international media group. i'm from a russo intends any. i were joined by jason sterns, who's the founder off and strategic advisor to the congo research group at new york university. thank you for your time with us on inside story. mr. well, yeah, i'll start with you. opposition? candidates have been denouncing the chaos as a result of this election being held and irregularities that took place on the 1st day of the votes. what's your reaction to that? firstly, we know position been,

we're preparing for decisions. been elections. we've been saying get di, purchasing a in the, in the past days. what we have seen on elections day is for us to see the way from what is paid for. one will be lies. they were massive code in there for the, for the institutions, of course. and there were some did teacher teaches about the, the, the, the, the, the starting time of voting and photo the teacher to, we have seen across the country. and i remember we as government and the addiction thing, we met a statement asking electronic condition to tackle those issues and to provide us for, for so we cannot say that there was cat was, especially when you saw those months if people going is visual and one to vote, just because there was 4 trips, there was some incident and students, which was my magic letter by the send, you provide solutions. what trips to see here is that these elections was and closes because every candidate was able to writing and come with

a simple word as the web presence on the election day to vote. there was, of course, some changes with fedex to have commission. they like our commission was providing also. so i was what about let me ask you this that you get an answer to this? there was a report. mr. munoz, a sir. let me just jump in. there was one report that was saying that while the votes was officially extended until thursday, ballots were still being cast on saturday and remote area is, can you confirm this and, and how do you explain that? yeah. you know that they meant yes. i can't. i can't, i can't confirm that the thoughts went in some, some others constituency. people where i bought 2 volts into the yesterday and i think today to, well, you know, what we have to understand here is that we cannot or she was to get to, to dave to cover this before or bought unity to follow it. of course, this thing should be done on december 20, but because of those will be the session before it goes up from there just to kind

of permanent votes instruction, right? i was delayed and today the main things here is that come what is people are not able to fault the cost, therefore to chose that coming leaders, which is very crucial for them across. okay, let's bring in jason's thoughts. do you agree with that? but the most important thing here, jason, is that people were able to cast their ballots. what it is there needs to be important, or they can cast their ballots. i think the questions here is the why did elections weren't disposed simply postponed to allow for more time for preparations to be made in many, many voting stations. not all they put me in was there a, there was massive failing of the electronic voting machines. the, the, the, a policy that blew it, which is the sign sign piece of paper that everybody's ation has to provide to document the results. they often didn't have this piece of paper. and so i think in many of the cases these problems could have been solved simply by postponing by one week or so, which is what they done in 2018 actually. so, um, so yes,

i think i recall that you should actually have the right to vote, but i think also the more needed to be done. there were indeed massive massive irregularities across the board as there happened in past elections. and i think that that's what it is, a shame moving rose a please weigh in on this debate and, and look, this has been described as a high stakes election. what's at stake here? absolutely. high stake elections. the several room elections happening are the same time. you have people that electing the president electing the members of bottom. i'm electing it the in the principal, vince and he does or how you call them that, that so they were like a bang. so thousands of people complaining throughout the country. so that was a huge thing. but what i want to say here is that the election is act or a high state usually because because those walk the nice thing,

then not only in d, i see in many countries you're not forgot. they are not prepared to lose the thing . and they do everything they can uh, even illegal things and regular things to get the result they want to brush. i missed the kind of the my, the head of the electra commission has he's the basic nation and he's applying been, has been very contentious. many, many organizations, including the may really just uh, brings like the catholic church, which is very influential in, in the d. c. and the, even the book test. and it's a good thing also association, the politics in 2 weeks and weeks before and the government and the presidents decided to be both that man, i'm why where people are posting. he's the appointment because he was going see

that to close to the president to the incumbent, to be a neutral and the end of the harness book. so this took a lot of time and he was confirming 2021. so 20. yeah. see sure. when the skis due to the selection, we saw that many things were not stopping all the time. and when you look at the is like the d. c. although it is not aware of what they have to. what is that stick here. they have a huge country, 2300000 square feet are better. that's what i said because i've just got really not enough for the. the transportation is impossible, but he's so difficult this to the roads you. you can only write, i'm the, i'm opening the i not so many the airport and all these is

a huge challenge and they did not seem to realize, okay, then have to be more about that. oh the yeah. go ahead. and one of the important challenge was also that, yeah, they see an enemy at the border. i think he's been border uh which is the m 20. we, we, you know, i'm melisha as by one of the, or the 2 of the united nations according to many gone through the united states and etc. we know that what we saw was that a cruise has to be a thing. okay, let me just jump in there. i mean, if it isn't your, your raise important points and these are certainly challenges the countries facing, which i'd like to get onto. but allow me to bring in mr. amelia, to just address the claims that you made on the, on mr. dennis demo, who's the president of the national authorial commission?

being too close to the governments? can you comments on that 1st? i think got to take and brought us down to where i'm not at the because when insights and did churches, they organized boards. the candid it wasn't elected the 6 of those different churches chose mr. academy might. it wasn't a question on the about to minister cutty. my being close to the present, just take a don't not a to was about being able to be the end of the commission on not and since day one catholic church and put this on start a stronger position that gets me start getting my weeds become a bit more person on the about team, but today a 3 years later we need to judge about what have been done as job electronic commission. i'm not going to say to speak that district about was close to me. so just like i don't know each was unfair, it wasn't an objective in not, it wasn't objective and i and those are 2 arguments. now, what we have to focus on is to see what he has done his job. and we know women the

1st size of and mentor, recognize that there were some changes my listen, you are, you have 40 phone maintenance full time. yeah. andre a 1000 different candidates. we have all those commodities people, one from ford on the election days. so there was, of course, some incidents, but if you have to compare the number of the incidents and the big number, because it's about making 14 people in 75000 boarding stations, it means that if you have a students in andre pointing session, of course it's something by the reference on something very, very, very lived are things. if you have to go see there, the president of sugar run so fast as to give you an example. so today where i think the many things we have to see here is that some of these people were able to vote use that for the 1st time is the new electronics. to save that skinny as to bobby's resides by pointing station it towards electronic commission. stop doing in

the past days. so i think there is a way we can see what was good, what was good and judged, of course, it's not only on those of boxing up in those things, even if it con permission was working on that. then saying that the election was it must've got, well it's a try. okay, let me bring in jason. so there are a lot of these people. we've been as a board to vote in that day. let me bring in jason, because jason look one opposition candidate. it was the presidential candidates headsets has a legs up, the electoral fraud of the century was taking place. and now we know that there are calls for protests to take place on wednesday over what some people believe are disputed election results with jessica. the right now with partial results being counted, he's a around 80 percent. it's you think that there's a wider political crisis that's going to develop here in the d r c. if the result is not accepted and the country risks descending into violence in a national crisis. i think it's difficult to say, i mean we're,

we're about 30 percent through counting the results at the moment. um, as we've said before, there are widespread irregularities or delays bodies stations that are open was by the violence and voting stations. the law of a historical perspective here is that this is the 4th election to take place since the peace process since 2006, 20112018, and the now and with the exception of 2006, every single one of those votes have been deeply flawed in 2011 the catholic church . the carter center said that the election does not reflect the will of the people in 2018. most independent observers said that he's a good, he actually wasn't the winner of the presidential election to somebody else. and now once again, we're back in a similar place. and so i think that the political crisis, it's here is probably not going to be one where there could be a military coup as they've been in other places or even one with there's widespread mobilization violence in the streets. i. i think that's probably unlikely. i think the biggest crisis here is the crisis of democracy. these, this exercise to

a $1000000000.00 an extremely poor country across a $1000000000.00. this is, i think people will see why should i go and vote anymore. if i walk for hours to get to a police station and then i might not be able to vote or than somebody else wins, or the person who really, actually one of the pulling at the pool was, i think that's probably the wider crisis that we need to point out to you and the final thing i would say is that if you look at all the problems that my colleagues have mentioned in terms of corruption and especially in terms of insecurity in the 7000000 people, was placed in eastern call today. these are problems, largely speaking of governance and of accountability in the best way. you can hold the government accountable through elections. and so if that mechanism is not working, then there's a serious problem. okay, mary rosie, on the issue of a democracy, to what extent do you think what's happening right now in the d. r c hinders the countries progress towards sort of a more democratic future and more economic stability. you know,

i could not agree. no, we've what i've just been saying, you know what we could see on those sporting days election. these is the fast for democracy for the patient people and yeah, she wants to be bob of the natural history national decision making. we see that so much the game right, is based on the weight that they, that, that big display phones. but the problem is that the spending so much money, you know, but people think that better, probably not for go right now as we could see in many countries like model the share and the uh, do you need for in some way you have needed to wait goals and people dancing and jumping in the street to uh, to place the put cheese. you know, they said the importance of a, from the u. n. d p, whichever comment saw this and citizens why you see that despite,

oh that these buys they, they sort of joy, they have to get read all of the incumbent that was africans 90 percent of africans. one is cb and government, but in a comfortable $1.00 and $1.00 we do really elected and the system which works. they are not against democracy that against these much these mockery of democracy. that's what the, the stick you and what do we see here? and yes, where i'm so much money has been spent when you see all this happening, okay, i don't need to, to, uh, we'd be what else we see in terms of dysfunction, dysfunction. at the end of the day, the process we did not create a consent. it wouldn't create descent, the bb and so much then that's almost much so. so much effort. and that's the problem. and really of course we speak of violence, but these,

these countries are wally in, in a violent a context with the eastern congo people in the space. we a m 20 should be one of the king and the but they don't seem to be really aware of . that's my main point. they don't seem to be aware of what is i think you, you know, we are the, you look at a, you've been country at the us. oh, they're not sweet valley. was it a transition? the environmental inaji transition. they say the electric call, we'd be very important in the coming d case so that the battery need to seek you a rule materials and then for them to get to. i said, yeah, see where the uh they, they have a next is to said of course because the yeah. and your thought you're referring to the compromise which of course is very important to the international country. do

you yeah, that don't even organize appropriate election. and then, okay, let me bring on mr. pock. mr. patrick, were you, i just look, i mean, you, you said that the most important thing here is that people were actually able to vote. but we know from the united nations, that's because of the violence in the country. and what's happening in the east would be m $23.00 level group. there's a record number of people who's been displaced almost 7000000. the figure is 6900000 who been displaced many were actually unable to register to vote or go back home to vote. so how, how does that impact the election and do you fear that democracy here is at stake? you say uh well, i would like to make 2 quick comment before answering to your question on what is on started was saying here i would like came to explain to say that they know as a they do, they pour the president's was they proper rates and here we are, of course of to mr. are waiting to see the present. we'd be the winner because

going, what is the board? my safety for the for it is for sure. i think on what is people from the is because we've been there you are raising the questions about international and expensive people, you know, been for, can to start to the was trying to convince the president in their best of all, if we point both phone the elections, to make sure we saw the issue we've, i'm 20 treat before getting back to the elections by year, the prison that the government say no because mean want to demo the cost of the debt down democracy. and we think that we should make sure it would be the election on time so we can make sure all democracy is getting stronger. much mr roy. yeah. what's the record of the what? what, what's his record here? what's his record here for mr. chest? i can see, i mean he's overseeing the largest displacement. some people in the country is also we've kind of also, he's lost control of, of things that they want to know. please please let me give you an extra and let me give you an extra their domain that are sort of part of the stuff that after they

run the genocide age need and more than it's meat on died there. we have the biggest united nations, a mission in the world and you'll see for 20 years, nothing was up and, and today was the present just to get the we are working well working to reform, augmented server system and etc. you are the present to security, saying that we are even ready to make what we find that to stop those things. because and dentists are not going to need to use, not these, not acting effectively to solve the issue, you know, and then also not come into when it comes to your c, d speaking every day, about strength and different crises about human rights. we all know that got me and one that i'm not able to do for even this mode is smaller and smaller for the 2 of them across in the human right. but we could meet that on that nice. those evictions costs more than one meetings, but we did that because we think that democrats use a key where we can a see to, to provide sustainable solutions for people. and especially in the is, and many of the people in the eastern part of us think chose to vote for the

present. just like any ways that your strategy to finish they want india is about to tweak quite his time. you're being raising the issue of a whole my terriers, and for those, such as you can, you know, you have your searches here inside the country we have working on, but we cannot make big progress when those and penetrate aren't getting deep or in 0 in the box of this training, it goes just and we dumped it being more than that. national must've condition for a dentist or not to community. okay. it's not it's, it's unfair for them, but it's people, that's what i mean. jump in there for the sake of time coming president to read by our self. try to let me just and try to work to find the system level. so jason, jason, please respond to what we've heard and, and how do you think the international community is going to be looking at the selection? what is it certainly things that the minister approximately i said that are either correct. we did, in fact, to a pull ahead of the elections distributors a few days before the election. that suggested that the presidency security didn't comment is by far the favor favorite in the election. but the question here is not

whether she won the elections by act. i do think that you probably would have won the elections and the for you a fair and transparent vote. the question is about the process about the credibility and legitimacy of the process. even if you want to know the numbers that are being given are, are far higher than the numbers the were in our pool or even other pools were conducted before the election. the questions about really do the, there's really believing the credibility of the process. and it's not just the presidency at stake, you, it's a national assembly provincial assemblies, and those are at least as important as the president's and so just to respond to that with regards to the east again, the minister is absolutely correct. the war was prompted by a neighboring countries, especially their own governments who was not only backing them 23 rebels, whose troops, who special forces are on calling to the soil and have been engaged and have been pushing the displacement up to hundreds of thousands of people in the eastern console, absolutely. there is a huge burden responsibility on their own and government and their by proxy also their own and supporters. because rhonda is still a dramatic,

a recipients of international aid and especially the british government as well as the french government have been very reluctant to criticize the ruling and government because they have other interest with regards to to rwanda. so absolutely, both rwanda and members of the international community are implicit in this displacement in the eastern combo. but that doesn't solve to call these government from responsibility. it is also fails to stabilize the eastern calling because not just the, i'm 23. there are 100 other armed groups in the eastern congo, and so i think they also bear a lot of responsibility in that as well. okay. mary rose a comments. i'll give you sorry to interrupt about jerry bridges. i mr roy. yeah. mm hm. very briefly, we're running out of time, not sorry to interrupt design, but jason knows that if we have to provide solution solution request time, we won't be able to solve this issue in 2 years because the issue we have that for 25 years to be so we should make so simple solution and due to a great fun, but we cannot find those initial why. you have one natural starting continual per

right inside your scene, making more drama, getting for more people, okay, during those months, acro, reductive in any. i'll have to give the final words to miss. mary rose a final word to you, just comment on what we've heard and also a look. i mean, think of the country has a history of election related violence. tell us why put it in context? oh yes, the sure or uh, just because of the process of, of visit with people that uh, i'm not believing that it's free and fair. and of course you also have asked me still. yeah, yeah, no, i've mr. jason sterns, you suggest and say you have one that being very active in this, the rising go. now the official is sending a special forces on the ground that they extra direct to me. that one of the problem is not on the internet community. no. to me is that you, o d l c, not really a checking in jobs,

they have to invest the destiny and a closing. well, besides, we've needs more organization, mol, seriousness against what is happening, what, what against the plans of one, against a. okay. well, on that note i will have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us. we really appreciate your time with us on inside story, patrick and we all yeah, thank you. but where you are as a, by the way. thank you. and jason sterns, thank you as well. thanks for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website alda 0 dot com for further discussion. you can go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. during the conversation on x or handle is a inside story from myself and the whole team here in delphi, thanks for watching by the

and those guys are that you wanted to send unison using basically what this location. what about animals treatments time people are going to die. homes destroyed in brooklyn city, an area that is supposed to be safe. longstanding is really policy. just shoot anything that moves. there aren't any sit varies in gaza. my supposed to sleep on the street with my children, there's no protection, there's no safe space. this printer is going to be an acute problem. but a stimulus of living on the desktop. people crowded in very small areas with a lot of diseases from the north to the south, nowhere and district. this is a role rather than the exception for elders to report child abuse, to search kit and it keeps it protects the users for years and years. so no one's ever told me that it wasn't my fault fault lines

investigated, state laws in the us that can lead to child sexual abuse and religious institutions going on punished secrets of the clergy on the jersey. president biden says once a 2 state solution for palestinians and israelis, what does anybody believe it's doable? what this is real for? i'm gonna say it back to us foreign policy. and what are the long term consequences for the region and the world? a quizzical look at us politics, the bottom line. the colleges, when we don't typically focus on the public, accept the conflicts, it's the consequence of wars, the human suffering definitely the 4th time. it is one of the most serious spouse

of violence to henry says here we brave bullets and bonds because we give voice to those demanding freedom the rule of law. and we always include the views from all sides, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello, i'm about this, and this is the news i live from del hop coming up in the next 60 minutes. heavy shutting pounds, central gaza. these really military sides exhibit