has been killed at this site. now, there are flies across keys from those impacts and it started in the early hours of this morning, the air raid sirens and, and tough. you could hear the air defenses firing into the sky. we had those explosions, but also we felt and heard the impact. mendoza themselves managed to get through now. ukraine 2nd largest city khaki was also here to extensive. the end. the med that told people to remain in the shelters as it was not safe aside, not ukraine's doing his best attracting, to set these missiles to. but despite the air defenses, some of the refreshing themselves are still getting through. and the reality is that keith, the captain has not faced this intensity of bombardment since the early days of the wolf. a small it has reacted annually to the deal between ethiopia and small the is break away region of some of the lines that would give addis ababa access to the red sea is expected to allow ethiopia to establish a coastal marine basin, access to a port local issues as the deal threatens peace and stability in the region,

as alexandra buys, explains the ceremony in august of the brought the leaders of both e. c o p a and the break away territory of small the land closer to long sought goals. with similar, the 2 most of it's going to be some way. and as with us, this will be the starting point for our cooperation with the brotherly people of somebody, len to grow and developed together in cooperation and ensure common security with the as we've repeatedly stated previously, we don't wish to use force on anyone. rather, we'll use what we have cooperatively the memorandum of understanding lease is ethiopia port facilities on small islands, red sea coast. access to the ocean had been an ethiopian priority since eritrea became independent 3 decades ago. leaving ethiopia as remaining territory,

landlocked small, the lands president says that in return you will recognize his territories, independence, somali land declared autonomy from the rest of somalia, in 1991. but it's still claimed by mogadishu, the end of the signing of one of them on the way up. we are very happy and we thank the shipping apartment just as we signed the agreement here. we have allowed them 20 kilometers of aussie, and they would also recognize us as an independent states. they will become the 1st state to recognize somebody lined off to the signing of this memorandum of understanding. the government of somalia announced that it will convene an emergency cabinet meeting to discuss the agreement to talk of which it considers a violation of its territorial sovereignty. alexandra buyers alger 0. best way for them. i'm back with the news i in the hoffman i held onto their website to stay with the

it is a tenant object to produce objectives these coverage. many parts of is really media are effectively engaging in propaganda or genocide. what these really military with telling us does not fit in with what evidence they have so far. and yet on the friendship of his randy public this course and seeing more voices persist sale, calling the traitors. the listening post covers how the news is come to watch this space for where the story goes. next. hearing the facts, have you had any links that he has the support of 15, implement the shop economic plan? asking questions, what do you expect this particular for to translate when it comes to the us selection, refusing for the action? not just give you a sense of what easy target displaces. i'll just see it was teams across the world

when you closer to the fonts of the story a hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. after months of death and destruction in gaza, how much room will there be for diplomacy between palestinians and israelis? let's get to the bottom line. the in terms of the killing of innocent civilians. israel's war on gaza has shocked the world and outpaced most if not all conflict zones in the 21st century. worse than some of the deadliest moments of us were in the rock and the us battle against isis in rock of syria. now most of the 2300000 palestinians in the gaza strip had been displaced. boot is unlimited supply and most hospitals have been destroyed. israel says it's responding to the attack of some off on is really knocked over. they've killed hundreds of israeli soldiers and civilians and trying to make sure that from us can't wage an attack like that ever again. but isn't strategy which has the backing

of its patient superpower, the united states really working? and what happens when the fighting ends and the palestinians and israelis have to find a way to live together is neighbors all over again. today we're talking with david from former speech writer and assistant to president george w bush, currently a writer at the atlantic magazine, and most recently the author of from pato lips restoring american democracy. david, thank you so much for joining us today. look, this is a painful and horrible subject which we have all the eyeballs in the world are watching october 7th, you know, precipitate as a response from israel. that property is really left and right together in response to basically eradicate hum us. and i was caught by your a tweet thread that you tweeted out that began to look at beyond the hor, what do we do when the conflict ends? and there is the day after. tell us what you think are the important features of a day after we need to think about. i start with s, as in this matter, as a strong supporter of israel and a strong can support of the us is,

is really relationship. unlike many americans use, i have family on the front lines and one of my relatives and 2nd cousins. it isn't captivity, as you and i speak. he is being he is a prisoner of, of, from austin, probably has been exposed to a considerable abuse. and so we all have a lot of hard in the story, but we also need our heads because every war must, in major combat operations in gaza will. and i expect, i hope they went with a tremendous damage to the command structure of i'm us. but that will, as you site will be behind millions of people and mountains of roughly how did those people survive? how do they eat, what, what happens next? and how do you come up with some kind of security regimen to make sure that a piece is restored? and that people can go about their lives. so there have been a number of ideas floated and that's where you and i began our conversation. quit is real reoccupied gossip that seemed utterly unworkable. will an international

force of some kind arrive and gosh, i don't think you're gonna find many europeans willing to do that because of the risk of being exposed to terrorist attack from whatever remains of, of hamas or other kinds of successive groups. could a confederation of error, governments do it well, you know, better than i how little cooperation there is between eric governments, how much disagreement could the united nation step in? well, they had really discredit themselves. they've acted as fronts from us through the refugee organizations. there's oh, there's only one security keeper, you can imagine having legitimacy and success and that is some kind of revive palestinian authority. the world has to find a way that i've revived and improve housing authority to re enter garza and i assume the responsibilities of governance, their palestine authority, was set up as a temporary transitional authority to move towards a 2 state solution that came as a result of the oslo accords out there others like salon. 5 whom i've interviewed

recently. who think the p a has lost its legitimacy. last is roll because of the failure to deliver and those who need to even go back to the precursor to that. the p a low and find a new way to get legitimacy. so i fine, you're suggesting really interesting because are you saying that you can restore the policy and 40 and detach it from a true state horizon? and i think sometimes, and i worry in the middle east, a lot about solution, isn't it? if you have a, a vision of a solution and you then judge yourself, i have with your moving toward that solution. when you have an immediate problem, i'm looking at the present, not the future. and just to our audience that you're worried about housing, water systems, you know, the even most basic necessities would you layoff in pretty graphic detail in your tweets about really the horrors i had. yes. there after previous rounds of violence between israel and the boss. there a 2014 being the most recent big one there has there's been

a lot of international investment to rebuild garza, i think people and especially friends of the palestinians need to be aware that if nationally is not likely to be forthcoming in the way it was before because they went into tunnels, they went into the tunnel so explained to a german tax peer explained to the american taxpayer explain to explain even to people in the persian gulf. right. how. how do we just by writing checks for hundreds of millions of dollars given the history of past abuse. so there will be emergency aid humanitarian, a but it will be much more modest. and so their solutions that are going to have to come from gaza. they're also going to have to be, and i, i understand you've talked to john bolton about this. there's going to have to be some kind of way that people in the gaza strip can exit. to go find work in play and send remittances home. and one of the rules that persian gulf governments can have is they can offer a work permits to people willing to, to try their hands. so they can earn a living because the aid is not going to flow the way it used to do you see an end of work permits for palace, indians in israel, because

a lot of the transfer payments and the economic activity of both the west bank and gaza was tied to the is really economy and it really breaks the question, what is real play a role in rebuilding costs. um we have like some day this has to be an economic unit. some day it has to impossible to get on a train in cairo and get off the train to damascus with a stop in jerusalem in between. and all that this area is too small for city, for so many borders. and so much and tagging is, but i don't think, i don't think any time soon. it's gonna be a lot of movement from guys into israel that trust has been forfeited. people. because even though the number of people who did the violence is finite, they do seem to have had a lot of information from people who would trust. so the trust will be hard to restore. maybe you can, you can imagine some guidance if they check out finding work permits in the west bank, but don't look for that border between god and it is real to be reopened any time soon. they're gonna have to find work somewhere else. because the age isn't going

to flow the way it used to do, where can they go? and they are going to be tremendous labor shortages in, in the gulf states, and some will be able to go to egypt. and as i said this, we're talking here about remittances. we're not talking about necessarily relocating whole families. many of the receiving governments will be reluctant. but if you say look here at, here's a group of 100 working age man who are looking for a 24 month work permit. so they can earn a living and send money home to their families. i hope the region and they speak your language. i hope the region will be open, open to all of that, but what the place is going to look is not people are not going to are not going have homes to go back to where many people will not have problems to go back to the water systems are damaged and the electricity grids are broken and it will take a long time to restore them. and the resources for that will be coming from inside garza and not so much from the outside world anymore. as you look at things now, and i've, i've interviewed a lot of friends of israel on their show. lot of military experts generals general

betray us. others who have said from us, what's not understood as a mazda is not a body of individuals and people. it's an ideology and the notion that it can be eradicated through this activity is mistaken. we even have to defend secretary lloyd austin saying is real risk strategic defeat in the course that is going now. so my question to you and i know it's, it's complicated, is real, doing the wrong thing at this moment to achieve its objectives of undermining him off and creating a different picture. i'm not a military expert of any kind. i have no idea what i would also say is, is maybe the wrong question because there are things that societies are going to do that are inevitable when i'm us launch the october 7th attack attacks and such an atrocious way. it did so knowing that no democratic society could fail to respond in a correspondingly large way. and it was inevitable that israel would respond in this way. it was intended, there was it. and there just isn't. that's how democracies react when people commit such heinous atrocities against so many of their citizens,

especially targeting women and children in the way that almost it. and what will happen, though, when the major combat operations come to an end, as a soon will, politics and israel will begin to resume and they are what will that looks like you think? or will that will look like? is people demands in the street for accountability for not near to the part of your questions about security establishment? i'm there is a so there will be a reckoning. there will be a reckoning and there they're going to be all kinds of other interesting ships. some people are going to be one of the major things that happened inside this room during this conflict was a surge of support for, for the state, from palestinian israel as airbus railways. and you saw these poles that showed an inter, an interest rise and identification with the state. and some will say that was driven by fear more than loyalty. but there has certainly been no reaction within israel of any kind of security threats from up palestinian arabs. so that was

really passports, i know a lot of is really, are israel is jews and they're up to say, what do they get from that? we're, we're the demonstrations of appreciation for loyalty to the state. that's going to be a major divide. meanwhile, there are all kinds of settlers. so in israel's jewish settlers in the west banquet, israel's hour of need intensified conflict with the error of neighbors as if to open up yet one more front at exactly the time with that front was least need. so they will be dispute, so a lot of people are very, very worried about the west bank right now. yeah. um. as an, as it, as an escalation about similar provocations there usually are both in we've been in recent meetings where i think some government officials feel confident that that is going to somehow be controlled and, and reeled in 5 years. really, government. but do you have that confidence? cuz that's one area where i worry, what are the blind spots? we're not seeing right now. i have that congregation were to hit the west bank. you know what, what that would be really disturbing escalation of this. i don't see this is

a prediction. you said, what does politics look like? so one of the issues and politics will be what happens netanyahu. one of the issues in politics will be who is to blame for the security and intelligence failure. and another issue in politics will be those who say we owe something to the israeli arabs. and those who say no, we owe protection to the satellites. and those 2 groups within, as rarely society will argue intensely. and there, i think there's going to be a reckoning as well with the role of the, of the ultra religious. there has been an effort to pull the ultra religious in into the military. is real security needs after this war will be great because it will have to watch natalie. the northward, always watches, not only gaza, it will have to have an ide other kinds of regional threats. the idea that there is this large group of people who exempt themselves from the normal responsibilities of citizenship because of their auto, the g. awesome. and that's going to be question. so you're gonna have a lot of politics inside israel. i have no idea how it will work itself out. but

the idea that there is an israel, israel has been united in its reaction to get some us. but there are these other questions and there will be important debates. and one of the things that people watch this program, and one of the things that they need to bear in mind is their own agency. you know, all of this, the signals that israel gets from its neighbors and this is the signal for this really gets from the reach is real, gets from the region will be what and also have important effect. and if we can move towards resumption of normalization with persian gulf countries, especially saudi arabia, that opens more space for a less fearful israel to behave in waves and power. the most generous elements and is rarely society if is really feel, feel more fearful, you empower the least generous elements and it's really suicide. you don't call for a 2 state solution in that case, which some, some are saying may be dead. some are saying is the only option, but if you think about what you just said about taking pressure off is real, decreasing the toxicity of the moment, looking at a saudi normalization. what do you see an opportunity there?

and again, i want a warning gate solution isn't i just think you need to take one step at a time. and i think all of those hopes that were felt so intact intensely in the 19 ninety's. they are so much farther away than they were. but there are things that you can do today. and i would emphasize as i did that tweet, dignity for arab citizens of israel respect, equality. and i'm just having a vision of at least there has to be some day economic integrate from the river to the sea. economic integration. um, you know, and beyond the river to the sea economic integration. i asked for the saudis, i, the biden ministration. may be kidding itself on the speed at which this is happening because the saudis, i think, i've indicated they want to play in american politics. they want to help republicans. they want to help donald trump. they want her to abide. i find it hard to imagine that they would hand such a major diplomatic victory to present by them in 2024. perhaps if president biden

wins reelection and they have to deal with them in 2025, it will happen then i would uh october 7th, no october. so i would, i would not have expected a debt breakthrough in the coming year. but the saudis want it for their own purposes, the whole region has to be demilitarized, has to be normalized, and so long as there's animosity toward israel, this will never be a normal region of the world and the economic prospects, the saudis. imagine the starting leadership imagines they and vision the economic development social normalization within an authoritarian political context. well, it's hard to do that. it's hard to maintain the authoritarian politics and the normal economy at a time of intense competition with, with the, with, with your neighbors. in order to just make that formula work and it's a tough formula, you need peace. how would donald trump have manage this differently? do you believe? and then joe biden, joe biden is suffering in the polls, in part because of antipathy among young democrats about how he's dealing with

israel palestine right now. and what they see is being joe biden, just being more pro is real than they're comfortable with. yeah, would it be ironic that that joe biden loses the election because of that loss of support to donald trump over this crisis? and donald, uh, i don't believe that that really will happen. and i think that when you look more closely, those poles you see bite and also confronts people to is right. they've democrats who is right, who say he has not done enough. and the people who are most angry at biting about his ability support for his real are those were the least likely to vote. and one of the questions that they asked these young people is, did you vote in 2020. and among those who said no, they did not vote in 2020. they are much more likely to be on the pro palestinian side right among those who did. so if you're a professional politician, if you don't vote i'm, i'm interested in your opinion as a fellow citizen, but you don't matter. you don't matter to people about a matter of power. donald trump handle this, it's unpredictable. i mean, you know,

from response to very personal economic incentives and the saudis have enriched his family. and since he left office, even rich his family even more. so i think his 1st call would be to that he is very interested in some of the most reactionary elements in his release. aside, he would have listened to them. but because that no one should ever feel secure about any possible response. it is very possible that donald trump would have done something radically on think of and with, with bite. and i've spoken to diplomats from the region and they have said they missed trump because with trump, if you paid the right people, you could have a highway to the very inner most circle and then the president could, you could prevail on him if you've got them in the right mood, you might wish with abiding people, there's always, all this process. there's this bureaucracy. so they're very concerned with being consistent. it's very difficult to work with them. but you know,

what predictability is good and, and by and it has that binding is biden, is the most predictable politician probably united states that not the world. well, let me ask you about. so one of the things is beginning to boost is some states and maybe this is a, you know, cop out with some of the hard core necessities you're talking about the day after and gaza. some states are talking about recognizing a palestinian statehood. you've got obama officials beginning to write new york times op ed saying, hey, we need to recognize palestine as a state. does that help get us anywhere? oh, let's just see just a bit. i mean, to pick up yourself living on a street and does that. you've lost whatever the home you had, and there's, there's no possible water, you're drinking water that may be going to make your kids sick. and, you know, there's the, there's electricity on evenly fluctuating. you're terrorized by these gunman with their bombs going off. and the idea that somebody, you've never met gibson drive to the u. n. and a big car with

a flag on the hood. how you need water, you need drinking water and you need it right now. you need the power to be on. you need the bombs to stop going off, you need the government to be sent away. and then you need to have some hope that the working age man in your family can earn some kind of living and get some kind of money to put a roof back over your head. there are room and nations that iran may have a breakout year next year that it may, in fact, became a fully fledged 10th major nuclear power in the world violating nonproliferation arguments, etc. but it will be there, it will be out there. as you look back at that and you know, part of the issue here is to what degree are we looking at a proxy conflict between different parts of the middle east, the, the iranians versus us in the saudis and, and maybe it is a mistake to look at, in that way, but it does talk about what comes next in the region and how it could get much, much worse and more complex,

particularly for us interest when president obama negotiated the agreement with around. i criticized that because i said, the benefits doran are at the front of the deal, and the burden store ran or on the back of the deal, who negotiated this? when the president crumpton said i want to cancel the deal. so you can't cancel the deal because the benefits to a rad are already paid. that the problem with the deal is the thing that also makes it dangerous to kind of cancel the benefits are front loaded, the obligations are back loaded. so once the deal has been unfortunately signed, you don't want to blow it out because that's then you blow up your hope of getting your part of the deal, which is all in the backend. but they did blow it up and then we'll help here we are. and uh, i, i, i think that the right. but if you ran in, take these actions, not understanding the potential for violence and 2024, that you're having, you have an israel that has lost many inhibitions because of the october 7th attack . you have american resources that have been redirected to the region because of

the october 7th attack. you have a new solidarity between the united states and israel for all the talk you see in the papers about criticism. my memory stretches back to 73, and even as a boy to the 6 day war, never, never has the united states given israel as much security permission as it's given . now this war is soon going to be in at the 3 month mark of intense military action, intense violence that didn't have 1982. when is real, when it's 11, i'll definitely feel out. they did not get 3 months of permission. and 1973, israel did not get 3 months of permission. it still has 3 months of permission and not only from the united states, but from great britain and the european union as well. israel has never been allowed this much scope to act. and if i were the radiance i would take that scope extremely seriously. and it just finally david, i'm, i'm interested in, you know, where this all goes and i, and i want to respect the fact that you're a, you know, post the solution is i'm and, and grand plans. but what you've laid out for the palestinian authority,

the responsibilities and the burdens it's going to have to govern in really a horrible postmodern situation with millions of people. but is there a way to think about this again, to get the palestinians to be supportive of what you're suggesting that this may 1 day lead to an end to the occupation. and i look for hope to the irish model. so the white piece arrived in northern ireland was that there was this intense conflicted with all kinds of cultural and historical royalties. and the good friday accords created a dynamic whereby if you're a protestant, british citizen living in northern ireland, you could have a british passport. and if you're a catholic at british citizens living in northern ireland, you have an irish passport. if you wanted to think of yourself as british, you could, if you want to think of yourself as irish, you could. and then the border between northern and southern ireland, as long as went away as long as britain remained of the european union. and you are at this moment where the identity you carry in your head and on your papers could

be blurred into the identity that existed in legal reality. so i, i looked at that mean why imagine what could the middle east look like? mean it that i would love to a world in which the jews were citizens of israel and they might live next door to somebody who was a citizen of palestine. and maybe they voted for different mayors and different lists. but there was one economic in the unit, but traded freely with other elements in the region. but the way the solution to this problem is to make the borders matter less and to make individual identities and individual loyalties less connected to legal and software and structures. i'm putting national boundaries into the middle east has not brought peace since the end of the ottoman empire. so obviously the ottomans aren't coming back, but that kind of border list space that existed while the ottomans were there. that is what the middle east is, what it has to be if it's going to live in any categories. well, writer and commentator david from i really appreciate you joining us today. thank

you so much. thank you, steve. always the pleasure to talk. so what's the bottom line? the outrage created by the war on guys is going to last for generations in the middle east and all around the world. at the same time the gaza strip is going to have to be rebuilt sooner or later. after all this death and destruction rock by israel has it invalidated itself from governing, gaza and the palestinians. us officials say the policy needing authority is quote, the only show in town as impotent as it may appear now. so anyone really suddenly help create a reborn cleaned up palestinian authority with greater resources, power and support from all parties, particularly of us, but also is real and the error of neighborhood. and as any one bothered to ask the palestinian people what they liked to have, it still looks like there are 0 alternatives out there. and that's exactly why the international community needs to focus on what can be done rather than what can. and that's the bottom line, the

slaving under the hot sun, collecting a limitless energy. so their own tri, hoses down the. so the panels on his roof, the decades, the number line on the diesel, shipped in a great expense with crowds from the australian government. the island built itself a so the grid now they can capture and store fully energy they need kind on state fits future of fossil fuels, no renewables, the natural gas from the gulf of thailand, power stations burning co shipped in from australia to transition away from fossil fuels could be relatively easy in china, but the government remains committed to colon, guess hard hitting into buildings as a un ambassador position given to you by or does have both. you've described that is better than is better than any thought provoking on my question to you all. the

good cooks, i think, is the most difficult press than our part to answer facing realities. us vito. in the security council, this is a major stumbling block, is a problem to access it. you hear the story on talk to how does era rejecting decades of internal conflict. the farmers of columbia is peace communities, remain neutral on, on, but refusing to leave their villages a set them on a collision course with a right wing perimeter trip in an active defiance. they embark on a journey to honor that the enemy territory. a witness documentary on a jersey to the the

the, [000:00:00;00] the colors, the whole rahman, you're watching the i'll just it renews our lives, my headquarters here in the hall coming up in the next 60 minutes. best bottles and central and southern gaza. how boss is supposed to say that

funding is mainly troops in con units. and then old palestinian cities have been