new state laws that would make crossing the border illegally, a state crime punishable by up to 20 years in prison. the federal government saying that this law is unconstitutional because immigration, and border security is in the jurisdiction of the federal government. informing us president donald trump's us the supreme court to review a decisions binding him from the colorado primary election. the state's top code removed from, from the republican party primary products linking it to this role in the 2021 capitol hill attack drums lawyers are also appealing a similar bottom in the state of maine. or us course revealed the names of several high profile people linked to convict and sex offender, jeffrey epstein. among them is the case prince andrew accusations have been made against some of those would be named, but others have simply been referred to julian legal proceedings. the names were previously blank tires and core documents in a related lawsuit i've seen took his own life in 2019 while he was in jail,

i had of a trial for sex trafficking, a transcript of communication between the air traffic control and 2 planes that collided it took us kind of the airport has shown that only the larger a 350 air bus was given permission to be on the runway. coast guard time was preparing for take off on the runway when the air bus landed and hit the smaller aircraft, killing 5 people on board. the transcript shows the coast guard plains had been given clear. evans to take off your train in russia. i have exchanged hundreds of captive soldiers and the largest prisoners swapping months. also bake has the latest from keith. as we understand, this is the largest prison that exchange since the start of the war and not the previous present exchange took place in august last year between ukraine and russia after which, according to ukraine, thirty's, head rest has stopped the process. and then the alleged attempt to turn to families of prisoners of war against the ukrainian government to navigate to spend 230

ukrainians have been exchanged for 248 russians amongst a ukrainians. we understand the members of the board to guard the national guards, the ministry of defense, the navy, as well as some members, some civilians, now it presents and let's be posted on these telegram channel, referring to those ukrainians, saying i was a home and you sent the soldiers on the front line going on to say that the more russians are take captive, the more effective it is in negotiations. now, at least for russia, the soldiers will be returning in time for orthodox christmas, which is on the 7th of january. but what it shows is that despite the heavy bombardment that we've seen here, over the last few days, that negotiations can and all still taking place, i start big i to 0, keep the bottom line is up next and i'll do 0. and of course you can find more information on the website. how does it a don't call robots and stay with us. i noticed the,

the one, the, the, the the the the, the, the, the telephone and go down the

hi. i'm steve clements and i have a question. after months of death and destruction in gaza, how much room will there be for diplomacy between palestinians and israelis? let's get to the bottom line. the in terms of the killing of innocent civilians. israel's war on gaza has shocked the world and outpaced most if not all conflict zones in the 21st century. worse than some of the deadliest moments of us were in iraq and the us battle against isis in rock of syria. now most of the 2300000 palestinians in the gaza strip had been displaced. buddhism, unlimited supply, and most hospitals have been destroyed. israel says it's responding to the attack of from off on is really knocked over. they've killed hundreds of israeli soldiers and civilians. and trying to make sure that from us can't wage an attack like that ever again. but isn't strategy which has the backing of its patient superpower, the united states really working?

and what happens when the fighting ends and the pals the news? and as we always have to find a way to live together is neighbors all over again. today we're talking with david from former speech writer and assistant, the president george w bush, currently a writer at the atlantic magazine. and most recently, the author of trump pock ellipse restoring american democracy. david, thank you so much for joining us today. look, this is a painful and horrible subject which we have all the eyeballs in the world are watching october 7th, you know, precipitate as a response from israel. that property is really left and right together in response to basically eradicate hum us. and i was caught by your a tweet thread that you tweeted out that began to look at beyond the hor, what do we do when the conflict ends? and there is the day after. tell us what you think are the important features of the day after we need to think about. i start with this is in this matter is a strong supporter of israel and a strong can support of the us is,

is really relationship on like many americans use. i have family on the front lines and one of my relatives and 2nd cousins is in captivity. as you and i speak, he is being he is a prisoner of from austin, probably has been exposed to a considerable abuse. and so we all have a lot of parts in the story. but we also need our heads because every war must, in major combat operations in gaza will. and i expect, i hope they went with a tremendous damage to the command structure of from us. but that will, as you say, will be behind millions of people and mountains of roughly how did those people survive? how do they eat, what, what happens next? and how do you come up with some kind of security regimen to make sure that a piece is restored? and that people can go about their lives. so there have been a number of ideas floated and that's where you and i began our conversation could, is real reoccupied gossip that seems utterly unworkable. will an international force of some kind arrive and gosh,

i don't think you're gonna find many europeans willing to do that because of the risk got being exposed to terrorist attack from whatever remains of, of hamas or other kinds of successive groups. could a confederation of error, governments do it well, you know, better than i how little cooperation there is between eric governments, how much disagreement could the united nation step in? well, they have really discredit themselves. they've acted as front from us through the refugee organizations. there's, there's only one security cheaper you can imagine having legitimacy and success and that is some kind of revive palestinian authority. the world has to find a way that i've revived and improve housing authority to re enter garza and i assume the responsibilities of governance, their palestine authority, was set up as a temporary transitional authority to move towards a 2 state solution and came as a result of the oslo accords out there others like salon biology, who might be interviewed recently, who think the p a has lost its legitimacy,

lost its role because of the failure to deliver. and those who need to even go back to the precursor to that. the p a low and find a new way to get legitimacy. so i fine, you're suggesting really interesting because are you saying that you can restore the policy and you 40 and detach it from a 2 state horizon? i think sometimes, and i worry in the middle east, a lot about solution isn't. but if you have a, a vision of a solution and you then judge yourself, i have with your moving toward that solution. when you have an immediate problem, i'm looking at the present, not the future. and just to our audience that you're worried about housing, water systems, you know, the even most basic necessities would you lay up in pretty graphic detail in your tweets about really the horrors i had. yes. there after previous rounds of violence between israel and the boss. there a 2014 being the most recent big one there has there's been a lot of international investment to rebuild gossip. i think people and especially

friends of the palestinians need to be aware that internationally is not likely to be forthcoming in the way it was before because they went into tunnels. they went into the tunnel so explained to a german tax payer explained to the american taxpayer explain to explain even to people in the persian gulf. right. how. how do you just by writing checks for hundreds of millions of dollars given the history of past abuse. so there will be emergency aid humanitarian a but it will be much more modest. and so their solutions that are going to have to come from gaza. they're also going to have to be and i, i understand you've talked to john bolton about this. there's going to have to be some kind of way that people in the gaza strip can exit. to go find work in play and send remittances home. and one of the rules that persian gulf governments can have is they can offer a work permits to people willing to, to try their hands. so they can earn a living because the aid is not going to flow the way it used to do you see an end of work permits for palace, damian's in israel, because

a lot of the transfer payments and the economic activity of both the west bank and gaza was tied to the is rarely economy and it really banks the question, what is real play a role in rebuilding costs. um we have like some day this has to be an economic unit. some day it has to impossible to get on the train in cairo and get off the train to damascus with a stop in jerusalem in between. and all elizabeth area is too small for suit, for so many borders and so much antagonists. but i don't think, i don't think any time soon. it's gonna be a lot of movement from god's into his real that trust has been forfeited. people. because even though the number of people who did the violence is finite, they do seem to have had a lot of information from people who would trust. so the trust will be hard to restore. maybe you can, you can imagine some guidance if they check out finding work permits in the west bank, but don't look for that border between guys and it is real to be reopened any time soon. so they're gonna have to find work somewhere else. because the 8 isn't going to flow the way it used to do, where can they go?

and they're going to be tremendous labor shortages in, in the gulf states, and some will be able to go to egypt. and as i said this, we're talking here about remittances. we're not talking about necessarily relocating whole families. many of the receiving governments will be reluctant. but if you say look here at, here's a group of 100 working age man who are looking for a 24 month work permit. so they can earn a living and send money home to their families. i hope the region and they speak your language. i hope the region will be open, open to all of that, but what the place is going to look is not people are not going to are not going to have homes to go back to where many people will not have homes to go back to the water systems are damaged and the electricity grids are broken and it will take a long time to restore them and the resources for that will be coming from inside garza not so much from the outside world anymore. as you look at things now, and i've, i've interviewed a lot of friends of israel on their show. lot of military experts generals general betray us, others who have said mos, what's not understood as a mazda is not

a body of individuals and people. it's an ideology and the notion that it can be eradicated through this activity is mistaken. we even have the defense secretary lloyd austin saying is real risk strategic defeat in the course that is going now. so my question to you and i know it's, it's complicated, is real, doing the wrong thing at this moment to achieve its objectives of undermining him off and creating a different picture. i'm not a military expert of any kind. i have no idea what i would also say is, it's maybe the wrong question because there are things that societies are going to do that are inevitable when i'm us launch the october 7th attack attacks and such an atrocious way. it did so knowing that no democratic society could fail to respond in a correspondingly large way. and it was inevitable that his real would respond in this way. it was intended, there was at it. and there just isn't. that's how democracies react when people commit such heinous atrocities against so many of their citizens,

especially targeting women and children in the way that almost it. and what will happen, though, when the major combat operations come to an end, as they soon will, politics and israel will begin to resume and they are what will that looks like you think, or will that will look like? is people demands in the street for accountability for getting you to the part of your questions about security establishment? i'm there is a so there will be a reckoning. there will be a reckoning and there they're going to be all kinds of other interesting ships. some people are going to be one of the major things that happened inside this room during this conflict was a search of support for, for the state, from palestinian israel as airbus railways. and you saw these poles that showed an inter, an interest rise and identification with the state. and some will say that was driven by fear more than loyalty. but there has certainly been no reaction within his robe, any kind of security threats from up palestinian arabs. so that was really passports

or i, i know a lot of is really, are, is released jews and they're up to say, what did they get from that? where, where the demonstrations of appreciation for loyalty to the state that's going to be a major divide. meanwhile, there all kinds of settlers with israel's jewish settlers in the west bank when israel's hour of need intensified conflict with the error of neighbors as if to open up yet one more front at exactly the time with that front was least need. so they will be dispute, so a lot of people are very, very worried about the west bank right now. as an, as it, as an escalation about, settler provocations. there usually are both. and we've been in recent meetings where i think some government officials feel confident that that is going to somehow be controlled and, and really in 5 years, really government. but do you have that confidence because that's one area where i worry, what are the blind spots. we're not seeing right now. i have that confrontation where to hit the west bank. you know what, what? not that that would be really uh, disturbing escalation of this. i don't see, this is a prediction. you said what this politics look like. so one of the issues and

politics will be what happens netanyahu. one of the issues in politics will be who is to blame for this security and intelligence failure. and another issue in politics will be those who say we owe something to the israeli arabs. and those who say no, we owe protection to the settlers, and those 2 groups within is really, society will argue, intensely. and there, i think there's going to be a reckoning as well with the role of the, of the ultra religious. there has been an effort to pull the ultra religious in into the military. is real security needs after this war will be great because it will have to watch natalie. the north where it always watches, not only gaza, it will have to have an ide, other kinds of regional threats. the idea that there's this large group of people who exempt themselves from the normal responsibilities of citizenship because of their auto logy. awesome me, that's going to be question. you're gonna have a lot of politics is inside israel. i have no idea how it will work itself out. but the idea that there is an israel,

israel has been united in its reaction to get some us. but there are these other questions and there will be important debates. and one of the things that people watch this program, or one of the things that they need to bear in mind is their own agency. you know, all of this, the signals that israel gets from its neighbors and this is the signal for this really gets from the reach israel gets from the region will be what and also have important effect. and if we can move towards resumption of normalization with persian gulf countries, especially saudi arabia, that opens more space for a less fearful israel to behave in waves and power. the most generous elements in his early society, if is really felt, feel more fearful, you empower the least generous elements and is really suicide. you don't call for a 2 state solution in that case, which some, some are saying may be dead. some are saying is the only option, but if you think about what you just said about taking pressure off is real, decreasing the toxicity of the moment, looking at a saudi normalization. what do you see an opportunity there? but again,

i want to warn against solution isn't i just think you need to take one step at a time. and i think all of those hopes that were felt so and tight intensely in the 19 ninety's. they are so much farther away than they were. but there are things that you can do today. and i would emphasize as i did that tweet, dignity for arab citizens of israel respect, equality. and i'm just having a vision of, at least there has to be some day economic integrates from the river to the sea. economic integration. um, you know, and beyond the river to the sea economic integration. i asked for the saudis, i, the by the administration may be kidding itself on the speed at which this is happening because the saudis, i think, i've indicated they want to play in american politics. they want to help republicans. they want to help donald trump. they want her to abide, i find it hard to imagine that they would hand such a major diplomatic victory to present by them in 2024. perhaps if president biden wins reelection and they have to deal with them in 2025,

it will happen that i would uh, october 7th, no october. so what i would not have expected adept breakthrough in the coming year and, but the saudis want it for their own purposes. the whole region has to be, demilitarized has to be normalized. and so long as there's animosity toward israel, this will never be a normal region of the world and the economic prospects, the saudis. imagine the starting leadership imagines they envision the economic development social normalization within an authoritarian political context. well, it's hard to do that. it's hard to maintain the authoritarian politics and the normal economy at a time of intense competition with, with the, with, with your neighbors in order to just make that formula work and it's a tough formula. you need peace. how would donald trump have manage this differently? you believe and then joe biden, joe biden is suffering in the polls, in part because of antipathy among young democrats about how he's dealing with

israel palestine right now. and what they see is being joe biden, just being more pro, is real than they are comfortable with. would it be ironic that that joe biden loses the election because of that loss of support to donald trump over this crisis? donald, i don't believe that really will happen, and i think that when you look more closely, those poles you see by and also confronts people to is right. they've democrats to his right. who say he has not done enough. and the people who are most angry at biting about is a body support for israel are those where the least likely to vote. you know, one of the questions that they ask these young people is, did you vote in 2020. and among those who said no, they did not vote in 2020. they are much more likely to be on the pro palestinian side right among those who did. so if you're a professional politician, if you don't vote i'm, i'm interested in your opinion as a fellow citizen, but you don't matter. you don't matter. the people vote, they met up how it donald trump handle this. it's unpredictable. i mean, you know,

from response to very personal economic incentives and the saudis have been rich his family and have since he left office, they've been rich his family even more. so i think his 1st call would be to that. he is very interested in some of the most reactionary elements in his rarely society. he would have listened to them. but because that no one should ever feel secure about any possible response is very possible that donald trump would have done something radically on. think of and with, with bite and i've spoken to diplomats from the region and they have said they missed trump because with trump, if you paid the right people, you could have a highway to the very innermost circle and then the president could, you could prevail on him, if you've got them in the right mood, you might wish with abiding people, there's always all this process. there's this bureaucracy. they're very concerned with being consistent. it's very difficult to work with them. but you know what predictability is good and, and by and it has that binding is biting,

is the most predictable politician probably united states that not the world. well, let me ask you about one of the things is beginning to boost is some states and maybe this is a, you know, cop out with some of the hard core necessities you're talking about the day after and gaza. some states are talking about recognizing a palestinian statehood. you've got obama officials beginning to write new york times op ed saying, hey, we need to recognize palestine as a state. does that help get us anywhere? oh, let's just see just a bit. i mean, to pick up yourself living on a street and dogs that you've lost whatever the home you had. and there's, there's no possible water, you're drinking water that may be going to make your kids sick. and you know, there's the, there's electricity on even leave fluctuating. you're terrorized by these gunman with their bombs going off. and the idea that somebody, you've never met gibson drive to the u. n. and a big car with

a flag on the hood. how you need water, you need drinking water and you need it right now. you need the power to be odd. you need the bombs to stop going off. you need the government to be sent away. and then you need to have some hope that the working age man in your family can earn some kind of living and get some kind of money to put a roof back over your head. is there a room in nations that iran may have a breakout year next year, that it may, in fact, became a fully fledged tense major nuclear power in the world violating nonproliferation arguments, etc. but it will be there, it will be out there. as you look back at that and you know, part of the issue here is to what degree are we looking at a proxy conflict between different parts of the middle east, the, the iranians versus us in the saudis and, and maybe it is a mistake to look at, in that way, but it does talk about what comes next in the region and how it could get much, much worse and more complex, particularly for us interest. what,

when present obama, negotiate the agreement with around. i criticize that because i said, the benefits doran are at the front of the deal, and the burdens doran are on the back of the deal. who negotiated this? when the president trump them said, i want to cancel the deal. so you can't cancel the deal because the benefits to a rad are already paid. but the problem with the deal is the thing that also makes it dangerous to kind of cancel the benefits are front loaded, the obligations are back loaded. so once the deal has been unfortunately signed, you don't want to blow it up because that's then you blow up your hope of getting your part of the deal, which is all in the backend. but they did blow it up and then we'll help here we are. and uh, i, i, i think that the right. but if you ran in, take these actions, not understanding the potential for violence and 2024, that you're having, you have an israel that has lost many inhibitions because of the october 7th attack . you have american resources that have been redirected in the region because of

the october 7th attack. you have a new solidarity between the united states and israel for all the talk you see in the papers about criticism. my memory stretches back to 73, and even as a boy to the 6th, a war never, never as the knighted states given his real as much security permission as it's given. now this war is soon going to be in at the 3 month mark of intense military action, intense violence that didn't have 1982. when israel, when it's 11 out after the deal out, they did not get 3 months of permission in 1973. israel did not get 3 months of permission is all has 3 months of permission and not only from the united states, but from great britain and the european union as well. israel has never been allowed this much scope to act. and if i were the radiance i would take that scope extremely seriously. just finally david, i'm, i'm interested in, you know, where this all goes and i, and i want to respect the fact that you're a, you know, post the solution is i'm and, and grand plans. but what you've laid out for the palestinian authority,

the responsibilities and the burdens it's going to have to govern in really a horrible post modern situation with millions of people. um, is there a way to think about this again to get the palestinians to be supportive of what you're suggesting that this may 1 day lead to an end to the occupation. and i look for hope to the irish model. so the white piece arrived in northern ireland was it, there was this intense conflicted with all kinds of cultural and historical royalties. and the good friday accords created a dynamic whereby if you're a protestant, british citizen living in northern ireland, you would have a british passport. and if you're a catholic, british citizens living in north america, you have an irish passport. if you wanted to think of yourself as british, you could, if you want to think of yourself as irish and quote and then the border between northern and southern ireland as long as went away as long as britain remained of the european union. and you, at this moment where the identity you carry in your head and on your papers could

be blurred into the identity that existed in legal reality. so i, i looked at that mean why imagine, what could the middle east look like? mean it that i would love to world in which the jews were citizens of israel and they might live next door to somebody who was a citizen of palestine. and maybe they voted for different mayors and different lists. but there was one economic unit that traded freely with other elements in the region. but the way the solution to this problem is to make the borders matter less and to make individual identities and individual loyalties less connected to legal and software and structures. i'm putting national boundaries into the middle east has not brought peace since the end of the ottoman empire. so obviously the ottomans aren't coming back, but that kind of borderless space that existed while the old ottomans were there. that is what the middle east is going to have to be if it's going to live in any categories. will writer and commentator david from i really appreciate you joining

us today. thank you so much. thank you, steve. always a pleasure to talk. so what's the bottom line? the outrage created by the war on guys is going to last for generations in the middle east and all around the world. at the same time the gaza strip is going to have to be rebuilt sooner or later. after all this death and destruction rock by israel has it invalidated itself from governing, gaza and the palestinians. us officials say the policy needed authority as quote, the only show in town as impotent as it may appear now. so anyone really suddenly helped create a reborn, cleaned up policy, needed authority with greater resources, power and support from all parties, particularly the u. s, but also is real and the error of neighborhood. and as anyone bothered to ask the palestinian people what they liked to have, it still looks like there are 0 alternatives out there. and that's exactly why the international community needs to focus on what can be done rather than what can. and that's the bottom line. the

it is a tenant for this object because these coverage many parts of is really media are effectively engaging in propaganda or genocide. what these really military was telling us does not fit in with what evidence they have so far. and yet, on the fringes of this way, the public discourse and seeing more voices persist, cell calling, the traitors, the listening close covers how the news is come to watch this space for where the story goes next and then finish journey that has less than broken gay involved a so they could make it to europe, traveling from senegal, through the sahara to the edge of the mediterranean image of the traffic and sold us 2 groups in dippy, i like slaves piled in a dark cage, only a meter high out of the 120 people that were with us,

only 17 survived the stop what your opinions perceive as an unstoppable flow of africans, the pressure you share it to making the traffic of migrants illegal. but now the low criminalizing of legal migration is being revoked. the, you know, for years a new wave of migrants, this will cost this in the best such. but that would also mean more people coming to the u. despite the humiliation abuse and suffering all day and isa, they're willing to attempt the journey to europe again in search for what they hope will be a dignified life. slaving under the hot sun, collecting a limitless energy. so their own tri host has down the soda panels on his roof. the decades the and then relied on diesel shipped in a great expense with crowds from the australian government. the island built itself a so the grid now they can capture and store fully energy they need kind on state

fits future fossil fuels, no renewables to natural gas from the gulf of thailand. power station funding, co shipped in from australia to transition away from fossil fuels could be relatively easy in china. but the government remains committed to colon guess the israel intensifies is from baldwin of jobs, and 14 people are killed in a strife and a building in the side of housing displaced palestinians. the don't know about this in a, this is audra 0 live from doha. also coming up, is there any raids in parts of the occupied westbank or been under way for more than 24 hours?

at least one person's dies and dozens of how the students are being arrested. but they don't how's of all the ones israel, the cost.