it's citing his role in a 2021 capitol hill right from the lawyers are handling a similar and then the state of nice us striking around that killer leader of an around by on group has increased tensions between the 2 countries. the same as rocky reports. now the job of the rocky prime minister is a balancing act between invader, turn strategic partner, the united states and paramilitary groups, close to a rock whose support is crucial for holding power and both dock with a balance appears to be shifting after you withdrawal strength on thursday killed a senior leader from one of the dozens of armed groups that make up rocks. popular mobilization forces. the 2nd such attack in recent months on the rocky parent military prime minister mohammed, she also, donnie said the presence of the us led coalition in iraq needs to come to an end, which is and if it just left it on was the popular mobilization forces represent and then take real part of our armed forces. we have repeatedly emphasized that in

the event of a violation or transgression by any iraqi party or if iraqi law is violated, the iraqi government is the only party that has the right to follow up on the merits of these violations. which taught jawad causes him underwater and 3 other members of the groups that the people were killed on thursday by us message. what the rocky government says is. another violation of sovereignty depended on, says, with self defense. this was a necessary proportion, an action against this particular individual who was personally involved in the planning and execution of attacks against american personnel. 2500 us troops in iraq, another 900 in syria. lead a so called international coalition to stop isolated from coming back. the rockies will tell us forces do whatever they want whenever they want, often violating standing agreements. we cannot expect that the control sort continued to stay like forever. and because of what's happening in the region and recently, and by the end of the bombing,

different places in iraq with certain muscles and skinny people here. of course, this is not accepted neither by the public, neither by the government. the government still relies on the us led coalition for security. they are unlikely to be asked to leave any time soon. but in the face of escalating violent saying it out loud. what's the least the rocky government could do? there been more than a 100 attacks on us spaces in iraq and syria since the war on gossip again by group sympathetic to the flights of the palestinian people. it is the all out american support for israel. critics say that made those attacks inevitable. same bus raphael, 0, but you can find more information on our website. i'll just say that the upfront is next to stay with the it was never good to see. that doesn't happen. our country is out enough. we will

not take it at a bar 3 years after protest as storm to the capital. the new race for the white house begins in iowa as republican candidates. once again bethel trump, for the nomination, stay with alpha 0 to the us selection 2024 activity. october 7th. the tax israel vouch, eradicate from us. no, 2 months later we'll look into whether that objective is possible. that discussion is coming up 1st since october, 7th, accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing. i've been use to describe some of israel's and how much does action. but what do these terms actually meet? and how can they be applied in the current situation in israel and the occupied palestinian territory as well as the former and the 1st prosecutor of the international criminal port is which headliner, luis what i know, what the, the reason what i know a couple. thank you so much for joining us on upfront. my pleasure. i mean, if,

if anything was happening, how mazda is october 7th attack, and israel's subsequent bombardment of guys that have both been met with accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing and various other war crimes. but before we get into the specifics of these accusations, i wanted to ask you, if you could 1st sort of briefly define what constitutes a war crime. what, what crime that basically the find them by did you need a convention on now? by they were on this side and they basically, they are limits how solely is, could behave during the war. that is a war crime. then you have another type of crimes, crimes against who might need the general size coming into mind. did he say, why spread the or systematic attack again, disability and before they should? and that why that a, how much is it comes again to my the but mean that issue on you got a specific crime general side general side is and i've talked to this is

a crime to be destroyed in the religious russian group. and i believe that's important because the general side, it's a convention and is the convention that is required in the states bought these to prevent genocide? that's why genocide. so impulse then, because it or lead crunch of these crimes that they have these obligation not just thought enough to meet the crimes that $153.00 states boxes of the genocide convention, including us and russia, an old, almost all of the countries who are committed to prevent and find these general sites that what genocide is so important. how about ethnic cleansing? of some people have argued that what's happening as an ethnic cleansing, how do you define it? and the crazy, any driving you, i get by him, is it point? and you can, i think, is a nice expression, but he's not the crime itself. any clean thing is

a warning use to avoid it. can be find something that genocide. why? because you're to go in your state. you have us and you say is a general side. you have the new to do, but event you say is that the green thing? nothing happened is okay. so let's, let's talk about this idea of genocide according to the palestinian health officials. as of this recording, israel has killed over 15000 palestinians around 40 percent of that number are children, they bump hospitals, schools refugee camps is really armies, bolts person. daniel, how got it? in fact, openly admitted that the quote emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy. and of course, this is all in addition to israel preventing nearly all food from coming in all fuels from coming in. uh, people are given. this is a form of collective punishment. my question is, is there an actual genocide taking place?

what, let me summarize at this time that will be reasonable to believe very low as we have nothing to the courts of justice if it without an ascending so if i am present, you thought i stopped the investigation when it at a resort base, it will be lead into how much if i conflict you have how much me thing. what crimes, including today, the house that you, if it was a crime crime because you money the, i think the crime company did it on october 7 in these while i'm probably the general side big. oh, how am i having ventured to destroy you? riley's as a group, then if i, the reaction is also included. many crimes is complicated. 3, then defy the war crimes because each moment being need to be evaluated. but there is something very clear that the siege of augusta, it says that it's expect me nation or persecution as a grab. it gives you money the on it's a form of general side. i think the sick fee or to see that, you know,

like i mention the find that you will need to pay the people to commit genocide. the real estate inflicting conditions to this drug. the group that's itself is a general site. so creating the siege itself is a general set. i'm definitely very clear these ryan wellness each is very clear. and the intentions to this probably the people that many offers says from the government are expressing just like that intentions. that why it is very easy to say. and the reason why i base to believe if i is coming to a genocide in guessing just wanting to see each, then each bomb being each of the killings to be properly investigated. but come on, we have a really clear at this stage itself is a genocide, and that's why these, these fire should not come from in the new general site, please you,

you talked about some mass also being engaged in war crimes, of course, on october 7th, they killed hundreds of israeli civilians and music festival. they've also kidnapped civilians. these included babies, children, the elderly, the disabled. i mean, we can agree that pretty much fashion. those are war crimes. know exactly how much of the 7, if the war crime be with us, i can see the lens is it comes going to mind the because he's it is it, is it put on back against if any of the nation is a general side because the killings where it intended to destroy the group, and that's the general side. and that's why they october the separate back if it will crime is because it gives you money as a general if i and the reason why because you started the lord, right? why this constitutes a genocide? i mean, some people have argued that they are engaged in an act of resistance intended not

to destroy a jewish people as an if needs to be nationality or race. but to defeat a nation state that is attempting to occupy them. they defeating an occupying power, where i have been friends it because when i wasn't put together, i wasn't pulling for 2 years in the body sign, ease, read, conflict. that's why it's so what i mean, how painful to see what's happened today because they went home and i remember how much send to me at the professor working with them. and he happened to me that. com . i believe it just people should not be involved this time. not just that, but texting gatzo. how about believe this shouldn't be not jews in, in, in part of the time that why for them killing the jewish in, in israel is but it's is 5 of his tribe issues and, and that's it. and so it's a general side, because even if it is a, it's a, it's a dog thinking this trying to throw a group in this case that you're at least in,

by this time. okay, how much chart or uh was updated as you know in 2017, this is an update from the 1988 charter. and in it, they explicitly state how may i ask a firms that it's conflict with design is to project not with did use because of their religion. how mass does not wage the struggle against the jews because they are jewish. but waves, the struggle against the design is too occupied palestine. i'm not here to argue whether that's true or not. but if we were to assume that that were true for a moment with that then nullified the argument of genocide as a legal matter. when i say i am is as it stands out, this time that it's not so high is resource based to believe that this time that describes an investigation. and i go do with the time that for me, the generals i should be investigated, indicates a honda us, i maybe they adjusted maybe they, they now i'm not trying to guide them, but these have been found that they won't do this to kill these people to remove

the spell that they eat, riley people from the land. so that is for me side, provide recently basically believe that's a general site. i'm not saying it's a conviction because that's the point to convict. why don't think, how much lead the for general side, you read it, but try out you need to offer the how much will either be up or do to explain his arguments and present evidence and then the judges to convict princeton. we have a hi, get us started that they had to go to be under the dog started. that is high. this time that i like, i'm talking about it and things i've always been wondering about is, palestine is a member of the i c. c. how mass could be prosecuted for war crimes? a under that premise, israel however, is not a signatory to the eyes. you see, and it has not ratified the rooms that you. so what jurisdiction does the isis you have to investigate and,

or prosecute is real. read the intervention that court has stood eviction in guy side, westbank. and it's, or then that was a long br office step in my time. and the in 2021. the court accepted that's called the mitigation, helps happy mitigate. crumbs coming to in got set with back and it's still for them that mean any can go between these places for any purpose on could be mitigated by the shocking that god's otherwise is right. committing crimes in got that could be me, think anybody does are going to go to and i would suggest, for me, even so important what's happening. got that which is massive. and what's happening with bank the go to west bond is that the more influence that means that security of a via and i'm a shock this mind. it is the meaning of security. the press always made difficulties read today. these that unfortunate rejected. he must have sold it

because it was an extremist. is it mine who was investigate that? convicted hates. so these mind, excuse me, to settle that is providing web up the set is on and running activities in with band field and they're going be that way. for me, in the same way, if so appealing on an offer what's happening? yes, i do think that with that in, in what value there's no more environment because these pets on the meat of security has in for that it's running web of the set that i mean, fact yeah, almost. i understand more than 200 people to so doesn't wait for me. i guess that is one offered scenario, but with buying is a very important done. and you have to understand particular be of a sudden should it's a mark been clear in particular, be investigated for it for more crimes. me say give, it shouldn't be to get it. absolutely. yes. i'll put on the, on what he's doing by the weapons incentive. if he,

in fact the incentive to violence, i read that he, he was using the police to, to crash the meeting of the family meeting with a the where liberated from jail. i know so that the information they had now aside beeping and got the right. the in, in west bank. so all of these activities should be mitigated and prevented us stop it. in march 2023, the is the issue didn't arrest warrant for russian president vladimir putin. russia, however, is not a signatory to the court. and aside from the warrant, restricting fruitless travel, the countries that are signatories is basically faced no consequences. so can we isis a really do anything to prosecute? non members, can anything actually be enforced of what you got them this time? then foresman of the core, the fissions, or the device you're looking, that conversation is in the hands of the states. so but if the and booting was invited, i know no one is actively dental rescue mot. he couldn't,

he got to stop flying to south separate guy or going to breath, see, because he proceeded as i was i think i could that rescue him. and in fact, that's how big was present. but she's when i am diversity and by seed for general side as he went to south africa to show he's pretty. but he had this case because it just 2 of those. i think i ordered the red scheme, so that resting, it's the most complicated thing. but i think our 1st question was kind of just investigated. was bank crimes? absolutely. yes. they've gotten indicted people after the yes i read thing is a different matter. but my point is i just is doing what is to do and it's very important, but it's criminal. is it a lot of the thoughts to not be the 1st thoughts? so with that, or they feel that we are lacking is the commitment of the dimension of the community, including the bigger states, to respect, make e, right? how about the big, the little look since september at the un,

my sort of on provincial general side, the side of that think about 5 genocide ongoing in 2 months. so that's why the problem is today. this day the states have no respect in the boundaries, and we can see really say shouldn't. we're not just giving individuals in got that on westbank or in, in, in, in a menu. we're getting see the station and why he's not just about he's riley's or the means or about the food, the bill or degree. believe me. c a b or dropping? yeah. in, in the a model. is that what synchronization we're going to look at that stuff. so it's time to change the game when you believe it's not just to the judges. luis moreno a couple of thank you so much for joining me on upfront. thank you. the one of israel's responses to the october 7th, the tax was to promise to permanently destroy from us nearly 2 months after the

attacks. the group that has ruled guys and for the last 16 years still seems to control large parts of the enclave. and some are questioning whether israel's bowl is even achievable. and if i'm asked, would it be toppled? the question remains whitfield, the power back you joining us to discuss this is deanna. bluetooth is around the low base lawyer and former spokes person with the palestine liberation organization . and highland, i'm getting the senior fellow at the middle east institute in washington dc. i wanna thank you both for joining me today. then i'm going to start with you since october 7th, israel has consistently reiterated about to destroy from us. it's estimated that from us has 30000 fighters at least, uh, and by these really armies own records in its own account. the air strikes me attacks of killed somewhere around $1.00 to 2000 how much fighters, given the level of destruction that we see so far, given the current situation on the ground, is a military victory for is really impossible. you know, but that's not what they watch it from the beginning mark their idea of destroy him

. us is code for destroyed casa, and anybody who's been watching those knows that this is what exactly what is real means. and that's why you see that the vast majority, 62 percent of those have been killed, are pulse any and children under the age of 18 and women. and so all along with their attempt has never been to destroy him, ask because they know that that's not achievable. and this is not just a minutes. it's not just a political parties, and it's an ideology as well. but instead it was code for destroy garza and that's exactly what it is that they're doing. but that's an important point salad. and it's something that the very famous for now they've been posted in historian on a sheet of valid. he said, he said, then i quote, a mass will remain as a political force whether these really is occupied guys, or leave destroy from mass as a political institution destroying her mass as an idea is impossible, right? but why? well, the, the idea of how mass, of course is how much does the site make resistance movements? are they have an assignment idea ology,

but their primary focus is resistance resisting occupation repression a by, by israel. and so you'd expect that when you have a system of structural violence like an occupation which can only be maintained through a through violence, you're going to get violent forms of resistance. and that's, that's an you never ability. if it wasn't called how much that would be called something else, and it would be, have more or less the same way because those are the conditions that palestinians live under. that that's an important point. deanna and, and i get that at the philosophical level, but there's also a political question, very practical political question that we also have to ask, which is, uh, is there another party right now that could step into govern. even if a mouse were to be defeated and i asked that question more to get a sense of what's going on on the, on the ground and what the, what the kind of political climate is. so i'm trying to get

a sense of sort of what the possibilities are a. well, that's a great question mark that the problem is that there is no political party that's going to come in on the back of it is really tags. in other words, they're not going to come in and take over and rule or do anything. and garza based on what is the destruction that israel has huge on, on the gaza strip. and so instead, the question that we should be asking ourselves is, what comes afterwards that palestinians end up deciding not whether it is the united states deciding or israel deciding. but what is it that palestinians want? will it be how much? maybe, maybe they want out. it's not entirely clear, but whatever it is which ever group it is. however, groups may be more than one group. it has to be posted in lab and not american driven, or as rarely driven, or even internationally driven as the palestinians to finally get the ability to choose how it is that they want to live in the end and not based on is really

dictates, given what you've seen in which you're hearing a has come, i've seen a loss of support on the ground, given the destruction that we've seen at the hands of use really government given the fact that some argue that you know, some of it was foreseeable, has almost lost support you know, quite the opposite of how soon is know who's dropping the bomb. so we know that it is israel who's dropping the blonds and that's not how may i ask, who's dropping your bones? and if anything people are saying that they're supportive of the resistance, that is the resistance, that's the only thing coming in the way between a, between israel and the complete destruction of the house and, and people are complete annihilation. why did they say that? because on october 6th, as you'll recall, the day before, there was nobody ever talking about about liberating health. so, and in fact, the diplomatic community had dropped the issue so much so that, that everything that israel was doing was, was barely met with something called great concern on the part of the international

community. if the choice was to die a very slow to where nobody is watching, which is what these relatives wanted to do, or to push back and to have at least the world recognized the brutality of these really machine product to yeah, i mean, i think a, you know, i actually have a slightly different take i, i think israel is trying to destroy some us, i think they think that they can destroy from us and it, and it comes from a, this, this notion like all colonial powers. they don't fully appreciate the grievances they don't recognize the grievances of the people that they occupier rollover. and so they see palestinian politics is sort of an artificial construction. and, and these groups can be excised uh, in the same way that they were, that they think that they were created. so they can be surgically removed from front of the other being so high, non surgical in their and their doctor obviously makes sense. so what would you,

would you say that then the palestinian people, the children who are dying, the hospitals that are being brought up to sort of collateral damage that they're willing to accept or, or is it a both and situation with when to destroy from us and they want to destroy the gods district. i think it's about, i think they want to destroy from us and the gaza strip. i think they are operating on the basis of rage and revenge. still. it now, more than a week's in that has been to the primary motivator. so much so that they've given a barely any thought at all to what comes next. and we know what happens when you have a security vacuum and the governance vacuum. you get, you get violent groups of fill that void, you get a extremists, you get more radicalization. so it's not only in a humane the way it is 0 is conducting itself. it's actually quite stupid. if they care at all about their own security because it,

it absolutely will come back to haunt them. i hope we think about what the future looks like for palestinians. and as the associated press reporting that israel's offensive is turn the area into a quote on inhabitable moons scape, the u. n. estimates that 1.7 is a stunning number to me. 1.7000000 tablets. anything guys that are newly homeless, even if a permanent ceasefire, would it be put in place today at this very moment to borrow the words one guys, and professor people have nothing to return to the next they've been mentioning the psychological impact that a siege has had in a complete seed just having right now on the, on the people of guys that of what it will it take to rebuild. it will take more time and money and effort than anything we've ever seen in the context of the occupied palestinian territory. israel's actions are moving in

a certain direction. they are moving toward the permanent displacement of that 1600000 palestinians. it said that it's impossible for them to remain in the south of gaza forever. right. it's just too crowded and, and there are no services. and so i think very much, uh the, the ultimate goal is to push them out of gaza. and that's where the real danger is . daniel, what do you say? what does it take to rebuild as a and also who's responsible for doing it? who should be paying is israel, who's gonna end up? probably paying will end up being likely the europeans. but who should be actually physically doing it is how sydney is wants to rebuild our own places and spaces. but what will god look like afterwards that this is the question that keeps many of us up at night, because we haven't seen the end of this. i remember a few weeks ago on your show, i think was 7 weeks ago on your show. you had that daniel yolanda on the show who very clearly stated that house in should be moved into the egyptian side opposite

peninsula. in other words, what they are looking for is ethnic cleansing. they want to get rid of palestinians, but i do want to address something about the destruction of having us. i think that israel knows very well that it can't destroy mass. they're not looking for security . they're not looking for it at all. if they were the formulas there, but it's dead, they looking costly to perpetuate this so that it creates this mindset inside israel. that they're, that they're not say and increase the mindset in the outer world that they're not save as well. and therefore, more money flows, more security, more weapons, and so on. i think it's real knows full well what it's what it's doing and it no spell well that it cannot just recognize that this is simply code for destroying garza destroying palestinians, enforcing his release to forever live under under the gun that have to be our last word dana boots are thank you so much for joining us kindly. i'm going to thank you so much for joining us as well. everybody that is our show upfront. we'll be back

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the in the u. n. c, monetary and shape says, month sofas rarely attacks on the gauze as straight as rented the territory uninhabited, the hotel and carry johnston. this is houses here a lot from to also coming up more shuffled diplomacy. the us secretary of state arrives and took care of the aim of easing tensions, at least no few, no water, no electricity. we have from.