the, the, the is ram is coming out of the genocide in gaza that it's leaders of the name insights into suspense. the accusation of the heart of south africa's case of the un talk as well since it's defending itself. and the nice thing on a gauge will this case stopped the suffering of kind of citizens. and gus, this is inside the

hello. welcome to the program. i'm a tree instead of going to the eyes of the world are on israel as it stands accused of genocide and the international court of justice of the hague. it's being forced on so for its actions and concepts is really forces of kills more than $23000.00 palestinians. most of the population has been forced from it, that homes at a blockade is depriving them of basic necessities, like food and water. the case was launched by south africa, but it's cooling on the court issue, a provisional order of israel to hold its military campaign. but did they make a convincing case on what a decision by the i c j make any difference? well, that's why i guessed in just a moment, but 1st a report from vincent on of israel stands accused of genocide before the world's highest court. south africa's legal team told the international court of justice about death displacement and deprivation in gaza. school and framed is a part of a larger campaign by israel against the palestinian people,

dating back to 1948. this killing is nothing short of destruction of palestinian life. it is inflicted deliberately. no one is sped, not even newborn babies. the devastation resubmit is intended to and has laid waste 2 guys a beyond any acceptable legal, let alone humane justification. proving the case for genocide will require establishing intent. here south africa point to the statements from top. it's rarely officials on the what the living we are imposing a complete c, john gaza. they will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel, and every single be closed. so we are fighting against human animals and we are acting accordingly. lawyers for south africa said statements, the humanizing palestinians, and calling for their death and displacement, speak for themselves the middle. what state would i commit to

a general side that intent? yet the distinctive feature of this case has not been the silence as such. but the termination of the petition, often the side of speech, flew out to see it all states. it is right. israel is defending itself in court, claiming its actions are self defense and justified under the circumstances. yeah, to the applicant has regrettably put before the court, a profoundly distorted factual and legal picture. the entirety of its case hinges on it deliberately. q rated deacon text realized and manipulative. description of the reality of current hostilities is rarely prime minister. benjamin netanyahu has already condemned the proceedings. not one of them coming bump, bloom. we fight terrace and we fight lies. today we again,

so an upside down world, the state of israel is accused of genocide, while it's fighting genocide actually knew him it, but it's a whole decision by the i c. j is expected to take years, but the people have cause i can't wait that long. in the meantime, south africa's asked the court for provisional order for israel to stop it's military campaign. this could happen within weeks. decisions to view as top court are binding, but it has no mechanism to enforce them. for now, israel is being forced to answer for its actions in front of the world which advisor and regardless of any decision by the court, the proceeding is likely to have an impact in the court of public opinion. dawson, which spends monahan, how does era for inside story that spring and i'll guess from cape town, we're joined by solutions and i do a senior research fellow at the institute for global dialogue, an independent foreign policy. the think tank in the us state of colorado is what

a side professor of lou on dean's faculty fellow at the university of colorado school of little added london name assault on the rita in public school at the school of oriental and african studies at the university of london, a welcome to you all will look in depth at israel is response on saturdays inside story. in the meantime, lima well, south africa's arguments enough to persuade the court issue a provisional order of israel to stop its war on casa. yeah, they. so i think the lawyers have been in the unlikely argued nobody intends a fast law case for the issuing off the business. we need to remember that the additional dig glass in the stage result of measures is different than the say, the stage of mass. so at this the stage,

so it's not required to show the loss is ashes. and more of the size statements are, is this natalie, jens, i where they need to show is that these actions are these visions of table forwarding within the genocide prevention. that is a possible interpretation that these are those and then for the designers of genocide, the measure stage is the stage in which they call it says and josh, in order to prevent further notice of the genocide. but there's a place of most of the case that this is exist in order to allow the ration of my daycare similar stage. but you can't wait for the form, but the information like that he is the campaign,

the. so i think the sol have taken to the cation pointed to, to me. and so the one that had a, is, conduct a shows uh, at the bottom shows. did you decide on that? as well as explicit statements by different levels of is a policy make goes on between those and the result of that. so again, genocide or that the combination of the soul taxes as well as the fact that be sure that there's an address. and then the issue a, these people may not us and the meters we believe according consequences. so if we the middle stage, we don't the biggest states law by the end of justice as, as the cases off it'd be gone. this is my model. but think about it is highly likely that the cause will issue, but as long as it was the bias of that,

all right, let's, let's bring in what do you then i give them the time it takes for the, the i c j to reach a verdict is pursuing the legal roots of south africa has done actually worth while . i certainly think so because if you think about the desperation of the situation on the ground and what the people of guys are going through, you know, any and all means are, you know, are i think of the found import at this time simply for showing i mean, i think the idea of establishing a record and a sort of, that establishing also the that the conduct of the, of these really military and is rarely officials has risen to such an incredibly dangerous and an serious level that it requires this type of international intervention by a country that isn't party to any hostilities as the israeli team has pointed out

today in their arguments. so what we're seeing here is a statement of solidarity, a statement that the palestinians been what they're going through haven't been forgotten. and that there is profound support around the world for establishing some sort of justice for what they've been for the people have does have been forced to endure during this whole. yeah. and you know, over 3 months period of incredibly violent bombs and, and, and, and other attacks. so i think so certainly symbolically, it's important. i mean, your previous question to, to professor soltani about, you know, the, the, the import of this, etc. i think we can get a little too carried away with the idea of concrete solutions and interventions and is this binding? and is there an enforcement mechanism? there's also a profound moral and legal argument that transcends borders and transcends just

this particular series of this particular violent cup of violent conflict that's taken place solution, regardless of, of whether the, the i c, j, a, issues this provisional or as south africa done enough at least to sway the course of public opinion. i certainly do think it has so many to really looking at the way in which social media space is evolving. you've got a particular sections of social media, actually commending south africa saying thank you for taking this and bring it to the world's attention and using the international legal system. and the international abbreviating to contracts of international conventions like that. the 1948 genocide conventions and using the international law as the basis in which they have brought out the question of how to be a by the human rights international law principles, values and number 2,

frame books, which for us i think has been subjected to the kind of challenges that said, africa has also brought it to its context of why they didn't ask. the system needs to be the full in terms of the month to left for this kind of cool. so that takes a lot of criticism on this. we saw this last year with the bricks and with this that africa would go ahead with the brakes because of russia and pollutant and the whole i, c, c, a wrestler than a whole lot of questions around. so that because legitimacy, what's that? because done is that it's very carefully crafted, a legal, ultimate looking at the basis of what by 2 opinions have described as important questions. and i think in the court of public opinion, it's brought an issue to the full which in many ways i think has been so contentious when for so many years that just you didn't actually see the traction. we didn't see how it was going to happen. and i think be the, the way in which this has been done is that it's used the christian off the 1948 genocide convention. but it was that in the context of intent. and here i think

it's very important to actually also raise the point that this is about the possibility of what's that? because putting out as an argument. so yes, it is clear, it is provisional as well. but it's also the question of, you know, despite what the ruling is from the i c j and how long they'll take to make this ruling in terms of what the, the, the president of the, of the quote above the justices sit this afternoon and wrapping up i think that you can no longer shy away from the fact that it's now there that the issue of palestine, the issue of the medicaid crisis, the international law that has been violated in terms of questions are also rented into but also in terms of international convention. is no longer able to be sure to be to, to be put in the back bundle or side away from in the sense the genius of the buckle . no, for many people. so many countries just thinking about how they go forward on this . they know how important was historical context to south africa's case

what other themselves. this was by company and i think the base mission and myself, i think i'm in the performance of the hand yesterday. a significant impact the best for this is a visa sign in what is the uh, the perspective the is to the city. is that those the story? all gas up in the last 3 months? um yeah, that one. the 1st thing it would be in a way that goes beyond the public end office station and the days the hiring fast, the details of the somebody that has to be fixed in the, on the bus and hasn't gotten the last 3 months. nobody home paying my own business matter in a way that the sauce going into not others that we have had in the media the assist me in the west and what's the pickup. so once i navigate, it has to be

a policy to subdivide submission. the organization of the he is the idea that this is volumes outside of this. this isn't a back, i would assume a major image as the inside of course. so on the bottom and close to that, what we saw does so that i think it has insisted on the context and the products as well. if you book your vacation fixed, you see this if this is usable for patients. so that is all the big infected on the bus that he has. 16 years of seeds on gaza, at least for me, the highest of course, and maybe also on guess once you realize that, because a lot of times you come home on you, you've been to this as a student. that is on the this is the dynamics. we multiply the biases and

back in with the most amazing guys. uh uh, somebody from the ongoing denial, the nation from the ongoing denial the alliance. so what do we saw in the media and why it was what additions and the same us? no, i'm interested in the car, so that take a few minutes look at expedius was the one who was the heart upon the table. and the only mention that is why so that i think i mentioned that it's all my. secondly, they just don't want to in much for the media and the t minus about all the i'd be suggesting that this is the, the many scores and you want to access what all this on genocide as is middle school, but at least this. so this is one of dismiss my money coming davis and the guy showing that i don't pass away in a compelling way in a legal document, that there is a strong case for comprehensive,

systematic mazda. the is it because also this, the, this is the money. because because in order to enable this business going to us is that just as i said, genocide be completely not endorsing media. the genocidal statement as on his side of the slide by the is a, is this they have been embarrassed usually by the a team or us using actually helps us. there's other statements. my business statements have been a few days before the i c j a hearing yesterday. so that's also was john by the fact that us all the kind of up in pages or so or so, why not make some sickness of statement is why this is all is a policy makers are originals and public opinion makers actually do this either. and unfortunately it is most of the sort of the as quickly it's never yeah,

the, the last slide the is this the positive instead? so i think i should know there's actually a whole to see the trees as a comprehensive story. the whole next question. all does what a, let's suppose for a moment with the court does issue a professional load against israel. and how do you think that order would differ from the one that the court issued to russia? what would it be? more carefully wooded constructed, of course, russia ignore the order, but that, that, that the, that the court issued against it, exposing the limits of occult powers. again, i think that the focus on, i mean if we go, if we go, when we look at the, the,

the fact that the palestinians have been denied the opportunity in much of the western media and much of the coverage of this issue. and then that you know, that sort of denial of an access to the narrative or denial of that narrative as it is you know, among western countries the united states, etc, to even hear the palestinian narrative to even, to even recognize the wider context as opposed to just focusing on individual incidence that the, i think we have to return to the symbolic nature, as mentioned by both, both previous and both guess previously here in the symbolic nature of south africa with it's more of the moral force of south africa being the countries to actually present this and to present this complaint at the i c, j is incredibly powerful. and in addition, in addition,

the idea that the world court doesn't have the, you know, the enforcement mechanism or that it might be, it might be ignored. i mean that's, you know, that's part and parcel of this whole exercise. i mean, remember in 2004, the same body issued and overwhelming. overwhelmingly. so your decision on the fact that there is rarely the government built a wall in the west bank that was under a different procedure and a different you know, it wasn't under the genocide convention, it was an advisory opinion, but that opinion was largely ignored. even up to the point of the fact where the is rarely judge these rarely a point to judge. so this proceeding with that time was the presence of these rarely supreme court. our own box basically wrote an opinion saying, well, we interpret international law differently in response to the wall case and we find that the wall is legal. i don't think you're going to see that level of kind of a,

you know, something is real. somebody gets nose at anything that the i c j does, particularly because of the charge of genocide. so i think symbolically, it's so important that the focus, right? and also it's, you know, an actual case on the merits is going to take many, many years. so the focus on any type of action here is important for sure, but i think it, it doesn't tell the whole story of the symbolic nature of this in the fact that there couldn't be actual consequences going forward. we would actually stop the bombardment i have, but i don't have many hopes about the solution. please come back on anything that, that you had already and need the saying that, but i want to ask you about how this is being played in, in south africa itself. for people the i'm making of, of what their country is doing at the i c j. ok. so i think on,

on the hall this is actually having an impact on the domestic public opinion is really very interesting because you all sing on social media. yes. is that those social media activist and commentators who are trying to discredit south africa to say then, oh, so that's because taking a this case to the i c j. but really, domestically they have failed this, the symmetric and public in terms of the lack of providing a bit of a well, a bit of domestic environment. the politics have been caught up in its own challenges of social justice struggles, and you have to bring to the, to the international court of justice and demanding for this kind of accountability . and to stop what they say, what they see in terms of the application. so there's a bit of that kind of push, conduct left by those will build an especially within the broader social media space that they can, that, that they vent that and go that this is basically a application that's being done with. there's

a level of morality and legitimacy and that, so that's because whole uh, you know, shining the lights on something very important. and as my 2 colleagues upset, bringing it in the context of the legitimacy and the model and the ethical context of it. but domestically they feel that they're those are feel the certificate in the government. in particular. the amc government is not doing this it, i don't think you've got enough start understanding that these are, these are, these are also questions that have been raised in terms of how this will pay off in the election. i think from what i would gather, there's a sense of pride right now. and so that's the co amongst of different quotes is up to so that you can public to say that we owe and the sense that's africa would not do a control. but the i c, j that the arguments may be a bit more skipped to then presented. but the way the arguments were presented, the, the, the, the weight was carefully crafted and the kind of a application that was put forward. and of course, the legal team making that the statements yesterday and tons of the application itself, i think on social media as well. and of course,

in different domestic media space, as you're beginning to see a sense of pride that we never saw because it also the domestic politics have been really caught up in different challenges. just because if that's but if i just made a minute to search for this property is right with ties against us. just to say that i think it's a very interesting point that was raised about the moral authority of so difficult because for us that because also being challenged about what's its moral authority and it's voice and agency and international relations. constantly going back to the nelson mandela years and think we've lost that authority and i think this is important that you see it there. and the last point to make here is, i think, what's that because case has also done is the persecution doesn't help any particular context. and i think it's challenging also the international institutions and the way they operate. and even if the i c j does not have the mandate to whatever decision it makes to carry adults, i think it's also raising how international institutions are also facing their own

kind of a beauty in terms of increment to their decisions. mean, how do you think south africa play that it's case the argument that it made on? i know because i, i so you, you'll, you'll, to be cold and treat same on x, u, x is on x. it will particularly impressed with the arguments put forward by the irish lawyer, blame me growly, representing south africa once you, the needs of what the present to in the court was the very complaint the case if that ever has been why for issuing the missiles, because she saw it as usual, good menacingly at how urgent and how the situation is and what the consequences for not visually prism is would it be on the one the she also sort of is a long because of the students body because it says that basically

mandates the cold in, in action, obviously the message and sure issues were something as was because when the pot from that line, the systems and that will pull the code fully. they just the machine because with undermine the integrity of, into there's a lot of issues that we have faced in the last 3 months is of this is the policy of many a policy that has the name of the u. s. and the u. invitation to a, is there a cost that goes out compared to there? of course to innovation in pieces. right. and then they say with 70, very close our question. i'm running out of time. it shows the issue of the business. it was to not this every single state, the,

just the prevention of a myself as a guy and all the issues with this job to prevent and just what it, how much of this is clear to holding israel to account in front of the world for its actions in gaza will that in itself have an effect on global opinion regardless of what b i c, j decides in this case with south africa, is it already a case of mission accomplished to a large degree re, to a large degree the large degree? yes. because i think what we've seen, especially if i'm speaking from the united states and what have we seen? we've seen spokes people for the government and the secretary of state come out and say this is merit because we think this is on helpful. this is a baseless case, and the fact that the united states and powerful actors were supporting israel and the israelis themselves can just dismiss this out of hand. has been an amazing step . an amazing event to actually witness because, you know, we're used to this type of dismissive coverage. we're used to the united states

providing is what it would cover in the unit you at a security council to the point where people, you know, come repeatedly raised this question of how useful is the international system if it can be short circuited by one powerful actor. and acting to protect a uh, you know, a major out and we've seen that that has been subject to real scrutiny. and there, you know, in a way that have, you know, hasn't happened before where it's just been kind of dismissive, the posting in claims and palestinians complaints about what have they, what these ratings have been doing and the dangerous nature of it and the, the legal nature of it, having been dismissed out of hand. now that's actually being these claims are actually being verbs and taken seriously in the world is paying attention. so i think this has been at any exceedingly important and exceedingly important series of circumstances in an impact to actually witness. as i said, at the beginning of the problem,

the program will be discussing israel as response of the course in on next inside story. in the meantime, many thanks to you all for being with us solution i do. what do you side and not sultani? and thank you for watching. don't forget you can see the program again at any time at the website. i'll just say we're dot com for further discussion. join us on facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story, and you can join the conversation on x on handle the is at asia inside story from me. i agree. instead of going to the team here, so we'll see you again by the a settled time upfront takes on the big issue, studies of post types to what is happening now. it says it's cool. thanks. question about 5 unflinching questions. rigorous, the bank that he added to today is that another mcclin's interest taking place.

augusta nothing goes into gauze or without us, your permission. nothing leads, profit without permission. allow me to push back for a moment, demanding and fees, fire demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence upfront. without these cultures, solutions that gives us no hope for future that we have to find creative solutions, not just turn our backs. i don't think that has a number, think about it as a person, person yourself and that person shares. so as you can see for this is my us, my life, or at least in my life and all the stages we want we want to break because the women and my country doesn't actually become about to on we are not denies all of who we are human beings and deserves to be treated equally. we are in the footsteps. our officers claim that has been done before can be done

as long as a human being is doing it. you just have to keep pushing because no one else can see the vision. this key is you to the, [000:00:00;00] the color that i'm nor i, carl, this is denise our life from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. $151.00 palestinians are killed and is really strikes across garza in the past 24 hours, including several attacks on residential homes. clinging to his memories, we speak to one palestinian grandfather. he's lost 9 members of his family and his