stood cash mirror views of amber layers, skiing slopes and other winter sports, or a big drawer. but not this year, for a long, dry spell across the region with very little snow is disrupting the tourism industry. as when we consume sharif reports not long ago. good, and there was bustling, the told is getting, it's been to a holiday season. thousands of people's keep down the snow covered slopes. many of those angle for ski sessions for the 1st time. but this here is different slopes that are usually from the wide or brown, and green. and what was once one of the easiest best key destinations is a disappointing winter's tale. the season january is usually a busy month for mohammed a crumb. who makes his living by taking tavis on horseback. but now he sits, all i do for most days, go you're seeing on the cost in this year. we had no snow on the if you send to me

tests which has impacted or livelihood. and we have not had much work the winter months at crew shuffle our livelihood. at 8500 feet to about 2600 meters goodness slopes investing heavily as a blanket the snow from december to march breathtaking views, skiing and all the winter sports have couple of thousands of taurus coming in. but now those who made it a disappointed best way to get body of our board, we had heard a lot about the beauty of kashmir, but unfortunately we couldn't witness the snow that we had anticipated. i told her this is a big business in kashmir, especially during the winter months and thousands of livelihoods depend on it. but the no snow season is affecting local businesses, hotels and everyone to depends on it. mostly our operation is for hailey sky here and due to absence of snow, we are not able to do a heavy skiing. and you know,

took our, my losses. so we are taking our local to this to so i drive right inside of sending official say cash mrs. dry spelled, began in august, and it's witnessed a 100 percent deficit of rain and snow in december, exposed to blame this on the changing the pattern. joe global level studies have collision, pensions and the global atmospheric circulation patterns have been stopped. and this anomaly could be linked to tell nino while there have been only in years before this one is considered the strongest to expose say, the lack of rain and snow could lead to water shortages and effect farmers in the region. which ripples even more challenges since last year was already the hottest deals on record and the consumption div punch a 0. all right, that's it from the serial then. yeah, the, our, as always, our website thousands, 0 dot com has our latest stories up next is upfront speak to the

phone, causing the cost of the 100 days into the bowl on costs of the humanitarian protest . retreat is deepening as the conflict continues, the cost to the is really economy is enormous. plus some taiwan is view president to bring peace and prosperity to the i'm counting the cost on how to 0 this the october 7th, a tax. israel's leaders having both the historical persecution of the jewish people to justify israel's of ongoing siege of god, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu called from us as a massacre pope, the worst active anti semitic violence since the holocaust. instead that just as the world united to defeat the nazis, it must also stand united behind israel to the thief, a mass. but as the dead told him guys, it continues to rise and some experts, one of a potential genocide. critics have started questioning this spring or jewish history and anti semitism being webinar as someone from the jewish community claim. that

discussion is coming up and upfront the giving us to discuss this is amanda barto and is really american professor of holocaust and genocide, studies at brown university. stephanie fox, the executive director of jewish voice for peace and homework. but the political analyst and commentator and former deputy director of the american institute. thank you all so much for joining me. i'm gonna start with you up for always masses attack, both as rarely and western officials have repeatedly invoked israel's right to defend itself. us president biden's anti semitism on void deborah lips that went further saying, quote, no one has the right to tell it is real how to defend itself. but israel's responses had devastating humanitarian consequences. space have the right to defend themselves within the limits of international law. but they also have to consider proportionality,

where is the line between israel's right to the bins and the total that it's taking on the palestinian people? mark, i'll take it a step back and say, even before we get to the question of proportionality is to remember that israel as an occupying force and gaza, gaza has been placed under seats by israel for more than 17 years in which life and gaza as miserable people, there was no economy to speak of, half the population is unemployed. but most of the water that isn't garza is on drinkable and they don't have the right to have an airport for a seaport or trade with the outside world. that is their reality for garza and successive is really military operations and gaza have killed literally thousands of innocent people, including hundreds of children. more than 300 children in 2008, 9 more than 550 children, 2014. and so when we asked the question of the right, the self defense, the most obvious question that's come up is do palestinians have the right to self defense and as an occupied people who are living under a brutal military occupation,

there is no question that they do but obviously nobody thinks that how masses attack, which included tremendous harm to is really civilians that anybody could consider that to be an act of self defense. similarly, let me ask the question about that, because there are people, particularly, is, is really advocates who would say fine, the westbank is occupied, but israel moved all the troops. the settlers left in 2006. this is for mazda is issue. if there's, if there's violence in dallas, if there's a problem and guys, it's not israel's occupation, it's, it's on that's what you say is look and being an occupation of a place does not just mean taking settlers out. because israel is literally in control of everything that goes in and out of the gaza strip because they're not allowed to function or have access to the outside world without as really permission. nothing goes into a garza without israel's permission. and nothing leaves garza without israel's permission. and again, there is, you know, if, if it's, if you're talking about israel controlling its own border or egypt controlling its own border, that's one thing. but when you say gaza is not allowed to have an airport. and god

does not have to have a seaport that the last time a humanitarian ship tried to come into gaza to deliver some aid is really soldiers board of that ship and killed 9 people on board, including an american citizen. you can pretend that because it is a free place that is up for the people who live in a terminus future because it is under occupation. and that's the reason why the when and many other human rights organizations also considered garza to continue to be under is really occupational stuff. let me bring you in here. many have pointed out that october 7th was the most lethal attack on jewish people since the holocaust one, which is the writer, adam she has put it triggered the role as part of use. psyche, the fear of annihilation. can you help us understand the psychological impact of the masses attack us. listen, every single one of the 1200 is really is murdered by him. us that over $200.00 kidnapped are precious and secret, you know, on a human level. and as

a jew with loved ones directly harmed, i of course, understand the desire to feel like the clock has to stop, to feel engulfed with the pain and horror of what are obvious atrocities and work crimes. but i think that when you speak about that sort of sense of triggering a core and sort of primal, jewish fear of annihilation. but that's not a new dynamic for us to be talking about in the context of the israeli government or it's suppression of college indians. right. we have to understand the ways in which the v is really government from its outset has been set on abusing the history of jewish suffering and using it to justify more and more oppression and dispossession of palestinians. and we've been taught as jews, the palestinians are somehow the rightful inheritors of the blame for genocidal european christian anti semitism in the holocaust while never deemed worthy of

their own. and that the basic fundamental longing palestinians have for freedom in their own homes for survival in their own indigenous lands is falsely represented, is rooted in hatred for jews. instead of love for family love for community love for the lands which they belong, you know. and so i think that in this moment we see and twining in the intertwining of jewish trauma and palestinian trauma, that we have to start understanding both the way that that history has been twins and intertwined. the way it's been pitted against each other and our responsibility to look at both the notes and european responsibility for the holocaust at once on there. you're an expert on genocide and you have talked about your concerns or a regarding the response of his riley leadership to october 7th. you said that they're showing, quote, genocidal intent which can easily tip into genocidal action. you pointed to the

fact that on october 28th, a prime minister, netanyahu said, quote, you must remember what i'm a like did to you. this of course, is a reference to a tar a passage where after surprise attack died, commands the jewish people to kill every man, woman and infant. that's a story where failing to eradicate the enemy nearly leads to a jewish genocide. that is to say the least provocative rhetoric. what do you make of it? what concerns you about it? um, let me, let me start just by saying the, the from us with uh on october 7th, was a true parenthesis tag that could easily be defined as a crime against humanity and as it will cry. and the question you asked earlier about a self defense. i think every state has the right and often to, to the, for self defense. so the question is obviously the framing of it. there's

a loss to but um, so there is actually an issue of a major attack in which over $900.00 civilians were killed as well as $300.00 soldiers often and atrocious way. so that is one part of the that we have to keep in mind. and the sense of in security and that it's, it's as instilled in the entire community and israel and the rhetoric that has come from as training political leaders. you've, you've mentioned that to the, out the many others as well as some military leaders that have echoes of genocide it's, it's, it's actually sounds like an intent to carry out genocide. now the question is whether the actually doing it, and i mean we can go into greater detail my, my sense is that there is huge disproportionality between the ministry goes to the intro was to achieve,

which is to destroy at least administrative for structural from us. and the number of civility is that it's a skills including it seems thousands of children, so on the far larger scale than ever before. so this indication of what kinds there's indication of trying to go through man and see whether there is a 10 genocide. i think we have not reached of point, but one thing has to be pointed out of israel has forcibly evacuated about a 1000000 percent in citizen from the northern causes trip to the south. think of the street it's claims to do that. to protect them from military action, but the result is that you have no shoot congestion of people without the appropriate infrastructure. it just is winter assessing in the vast can be seen as ethnic cleansing, which often in the past in several cases, roughly cleansing,

because actually led to general side. so this is what we have to watch out for and one against. and that's what i've been trying to do for me is to do anything for many of us that the human is ation of the language and the actions. and the idea of i nearly $5000.00 palestinians children have been murdered in a month. many more hundreds, maybe thousands tops stuck under the rubble of dying slowly while those who are dropping the bombs are talking about how these are human animals that use. like i've talked about triggering a chord, jewish understanding of what is, what is the purpose of deeply dehumanizing language. and so many of us in the jewish community who i take the exact opposite left and from histories of oppression are pouring into the movement, demanding of ceasefire, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence. because we feel

absolutely compelled to say, you know, never again is right now since october 7. israel said we're trying to get rid of from us fully with an internal government document uncovered by hebrew outlet shows that as early as october, 13th to these really governor was already considering expelling guys as population into design. i desert saying that doing so, would you quote long term strategic outcomes for israel? one is really think tank said that probably on october 7th, there was quote, a unique and rare opportunity to evacuate the entire gaza strip of what the past 6 weeks tell us about is there is extra motivation to look. there is no question that the fantasy is really politicians mines is to drive all palestinians out because they always looked at the gaza as a problem that they don't know how to deal with. and if they sustain the current level of destruction and damage, but it's taking place full over the gaza strip to the point where it can literally no longer sustain life. you may end up in

a situation in which to literally save the lives of people who are currently in gaza that you end up forcing them to basically leave in order to set up a quote unquote temporary living situation elsewhere. and then prevent them from returning. stephanie, you talked about context before getting it, some of the root causes that, that us to october 7th. they created these conditions. uh, other people have done that and they haven't gotten a great response. i mean, these really government was furious after you in a secretary general antonio gutierrez said that uh the tax buy from us did not happen in a vacuum. the palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating our occupation with some is really officials actually accusing contender as of defending him ass active is expressing solidarity. palestinians have similarly been accused of defending her mazda despite the fact that only a small minority of actually voiced support for the group. and many, including your group had been accused of having a pro, her mouth sent him it for asking to consider again the system of violence to by

your words that let us to october 7th. what's happening here? how are these messages somehow being conflicted with support for from us? you know, it's critical that we understand that for palestinians, october 6th, october 5th, october 4th. and every day for the last 75 years have been a day of great emergency and violence. but in the time, even just in this past year, between january 1st and october 7th is real had till $250.00 pounds spinning ends, including nearly 50 children programs were so frequent and the west banks that we as an organization, we're having a hard time responding quickly enough, because really military, it bombed. do you need a refugee camp? like we, you know, i've done this work for 15 years and i have never in my life been in a state of such a emergency over the past year of just constant horrifying violence by these really stayed by these really military by settlers working,

locked in lock step with those forces to attack or press and violently harmond kill palestinians and so he so readjusted to suggest that the mere mention of those causes in the mere attempt to uh, end violence is in fact somehow um, anti semitic. or somehow disregarding of our deep care for jewish less on their israel's un and basset, or glad air dine has a purely worn a yellow star of david. like those that use the force to wear during the holocaust . he's wanting to meetings at the un security council, but mainly say that comparing modern, the israel with the plight of using nazi germany is actually a false analogy. how do you make sense of those kind of competing narratives? well, you know, shortly before the, from us, if there was a program and the program was, it was in the, in the present in town and it was found. and it's more or less was according to how

you define a program that is that there is a month that attacks and minority population and in a, in a certain territory. and this is what happened in the late 19th century and early 20th century to jewish communities. in ukraine and russia, then when the mouse that's happened, then much of these really media cool about the pogo. and that was meant really to revoke those memories and to say, well, you see now we are experiencing what we have always experienced. it's as i submit it gets in and they submit the content looks and there's nothing you can do. it goes other services and but to fight it the you can't talk with as i see much. now of course, it was not a problem because a problem is an attack on the minority. and in this case the, the whole point of son is that hope points of creating a jewess stays with in response to public. and so the jews with have as out as as

autism, so it's a jewish majority states with the i mean would be jewish, the police would be judged, the government would be jewish, and therefore that would not be any problems. so quoting the, the attacker from us, which was an atrocious terrorist attack, a problem is basically flipping things around. it's like quoting $911.00 and paul group, it was a terrorist attack, not a pop up. the same thing happens with genocide. i mean, i've heard of people claiming that the, the amount us of talked with a genocide and now many people are matching in many cities. think that is the genocide and gossip of being jealous sides of statements showing intent. and when you define genocide, you have to show any intense to destroy a group, a search. so intense is actually being shown through these statements, whether that is actually happening or the ground. that is whether there is intentional targeting of civilian population rather than indiscriminate bombing.

the brings about the killing of large numbers of people, of civilians, of in a sense of it is that it has to be the basis. i'm not sure that is the case. as i said, i think clearly the war crimes happening potentially crimes against humanity, whether it rises to the definition of genocide. i'm not sure, but i don't think in that says it's math is a great deal. alma look at least, may agree that the intent has been expressed. now let's look at the actions and what they actually show. you have a situation in which i'm international about our reports, saying that entire families are being wiped out. entire bloodlines, multiple generation of the same family have been obliterated off the face of the earth. and when you look at the history of how many children are killed in different complex, you look at what happened to new crane. about 5, just under 500 children were killed and you were pregnant the entire 1st year of rushes warning frame. and what everybody acknowledges,

included war crimes and massive indiscriminate bombing of, of ukrainian areas. and we looked at what's happening and gaza. a 136 children are being killed every single day. you are looking at a ratio of more than a $100.00 to $1.00 compared to almost any conflict that has happened in recent memory. those numbers are absolutely horrifying. and the extent to which half the housing units and all of gaza have been either completely destroyed or damaged. you are looking at a scale of destruction that if it has not stopped what will make gaza unfit for human living. so the question for me is whether you called us a genocide or not will depend on whether you stop it or in time or not. however, it is absolutely genocidal violence that is currently taking place. that if it's allowed to continue, you are going to completely destroy house names, ability to live and gossip. stephanie, anti semitic attacks have risen in recent years and since october 7th, we've seen

a number of disturbing assaults on jewish people. there was a stabbing of a jewish woman in, in leon, there was a dag, as done mob storming in airport in search of jews at the same time, many have characterized cause for a cease fire as an attack submitted and have accused jewish organizations like the g p. jewish boys for peace of being anti semitic. in recent years, organizations around the world have adopted the i h. r. a definition of the international holocaust remembrance alliances definition of a anti semitism which deems speech against the state of israel as anti semitic. a holocaust scholar amos goldberg, cause the h r, a definition catastrophic and says that the is really right, has used it to completely change the this course i'm gonna get your take on this also on this. what does that mean? which well is how we have this truly orwellian world in which a march has happened this week. but supposing to be up against anti semitism,

but it is actually a pro war valley that is headlined by the one of the most powerful anti semites in the us. pastor john hagi who has said that god brought hitler to punish choosing to drive them into israel and has been working for decades to bring about what he hopes will be a world ending apocalyptic religious war in the land. you know, it's how we have marjorie taylor green of jewish space. laser fame of all things. i'm starting the ball rolling on what would become the shameful censure of our only palestinian american member of congress proceeded to leave for fighting for the lives and rights of palestinians. and israelis in equal measure, you know, so we have organizations like the anti defamation league, shutting down anti apartheid student organizing in the name of jewels. safety is insane. you know, we see them actually collecting their understood as somehow to be the data collectors about anti semitism in the world. but using that, it's already definition and using their own slander and stuff, emissions,

they actually are collecting the, the incidence of the largest jewish protest in decades that are here fighting for a cease fire for peace there, there. documenting those as incidents of anti semitism. so we have this upside down funhouse mirror situation of intentional confusion about what anti semitism really is. and that is incredibly dangerous in a moment. when white nationalism and, and anti semitic ideologies are, are driving violence against jews. and again, smartphones and people of color. it's essential that we'd be clear on what happens semitism is and on what it's not. i'm not our movements are fighting for a future of a freedom and safety for all people who don't so much. only want to jump in. let me, i'm gonna give you a chance to jump in and we'll just like to piggyback on one thing that's a the only thing that i think is really, really telling whenever israel's thoughts committing more crimes, there is also a rise and that they submit a tax and it is baffling that leading organizations rather than distance themselves

from these war crimes insist that these war crimes are speaking in the name of the jewish people. that is just lunacy. it tells you that they are less interested in combining at this time. it doesn't, and they are more interested in running interference for promoting is really policy at this time. it doesn't is a very serious otherwise a problem in this country. and to play with it. these silly political games and to water down to that charge. by playing it at people who are trying to defend human rights and stand up to our crimes, i think is, is incredibly dangerous. oh man, you know, to, is really, professes the most go good whom you mentioned. and i don't confess, you know. and then myself joining them actually responded to the ira. this initiative that has been used by the, is there any government creating a separate definition that you're the jerusalem declaration on, on, on the 7th of that,

removes those sections to try to say that any criticism of the state of israel is, aren't they submitted. but the solution is being successful in being adopted by many governments, including quite a number of european governments. and it is a, with an ice ation. 5 is ready government of anti semitism in order to defend itself from any criticism of its own policies. do you know i'm a story and so what i find most ironic about it is that the state of israel was created as a response to, as i said, most of it was supposed to be the same thing would choose would be protected from other services. i mean, as i submitted tax andrews would, would no longer have any russia now to them. and the result right now is that just as israel right now is the most dangerous place for choosing the well. it's also the, the, the main cause now for until you submit the contents, nobody should condone those that they submit a good tax. but i think as

a law was saying where the state behaves in a particular way. and in the class itself to be the state of the jews, then this has a particular effect on jewish communities around the world. you could say that was most true because right now a anti semitism around the world is the conduct of the state of israel itself. stephanie, we've seen jewish organizations at the forefront of the ceasefire. move in, are we seeing a growing diversity of opinion within the jewish community when it comes to israel? i mean, absolutely. the the, you know, protest movement that over the last month speaks for itself. we have thousands and thousands of jews of all ages, certainly young people, of course, but of all ages pouring into the streets where, you know, the movement for palestinian rights and freedom of jews have always been a part of where and all. so we've always been a part of so many movements for,

for justice and freedom. and we bring all of that history with us into this moment in which it feels like everything we've learned. everything we've fought for all of our lives must be brought to bear to end these as stark atrocities that we're seeing. all right, that's all we have time for. i want to thank you all for joining me. oh man, stephanie alma, thank you so much for joining me. it's great. having a conversation with you, everybody. that is our show upfront. we'll be back. the in the insurance has been going off of the sauce the full day. it's a 120 kilometers in many areas. how does the news continues trying to find their basic needs to live? certainly this year most of them are to some of the rumbling that happening

behind is now. i'm not, is outgoing. wants to read from here. to the 11 east side, there's new, anyplace in gaza, is considered to be safe needs in the north or the south, and north in you and shelters or in hospitals. in on the federal tax upfront takes on the biggest cities of context to what is happening now. it is of cool. thanks. 3 question, question 5 upfront on how to 0. i have the right, the boy costs anyone i want to and the state has no business getting involved in that gods chosen to bless us because we protect israel. i'm going to continue to do in a state level all that i can to support the 3 part series explodes, the implications of us and people who called the lowest the freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights. more about the issue, whatever i'm looking for. so my thing for talk to him, quote on which is 0,

some challenging place to work from. as a journalist, you're always pushing our boundaries we are the ones in the extra mile where all the media goals, we go there and we give them a time to tell their story. the, the, the head on the clock. this is a new life coming up in the next 60 minutes. and as striking, syria kills full members of the wrong revolutionary god. tear on flames, israel and says it was of the right to respond is really attacks hit saw the

officer at least a 165 palestinians have been killed since the, the.