of the the, the israel is driving ahead with his genocide a war on garza, it, well it's massacring palestinians. it's failing to destroy him, us as a world watches israel is carrying out of that small so with west and supplied weapons without restraint. so all we add a pivotal point in history for both the policy and people and israel. this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program on the bulk of the level of violence unleashed by israel and have mass since october is unprecedented. even in the history already

stained by conflict and injustice, since the state of israel was established, the great wound of history for palestinians, the napa will catastrophe was a modern counterpart with a level of death, destruction displacement and despair unimaginable of the decades of repression. they suffered for his release of mazda slaughter and capture of so many of its citizens, a shock to a nation whose identity stems from the horrors of world war 2 scenes reminiscence of those times on. now the landscape of much of gauze is being flattered and by weapons mostly supplied by the us and western allies, and calls for a cease fire light by the united nations and echoed around the world, have been rejected by as well as the far right government. so is the will witnessing across roads in history for the palestinians and israelis, along with the western allies. and what does this mean for the integrity of international law of the kind of weld order will be asking you

a panel of gas. these questions, and just a few moments time, but 1st consume sharif reports on how this war unfolded before her mazda attack. southern is while on october, the 7th, the most fluoride government in the country's history had been ramping up a tax. i'm kidding. so palestinians from early 2023 rates including attacks and refugee camps in the okay. pod westbank and occupied east jerusalem. adding to cooling numbers of attacks on palestinians by is riley settlers incursions by jews and is really forces into the outlook some of one of the who use places in islam outreach palestinians during the month of ramadan last year. it's rarely police attempt to push both inside the most, posing move widespread, and the you and sex with teach and relate to implied such events and decades of

oppression would her pre closer to come off as waves is important. we also recognize the effects by our minds, the not happen in the vacuum of the policy didn't people have been subjected to 56 years of civil gauging occupation after crippling 16 year is rarely blockade goss us. 2.4000000 palestinians announced facing the full force of the nothing yahoo governments, genocide is a very slow and we are at war. i'm not an operational thomas has launched a murder, a surprise attack against the state of israel and its citizens. i ordered, 1st of all, to clayton's the settlements from the terrorist food infiltrated and ordered a large scale mobilization to preserves. the enemy will pay a price. he's never known. cause of health ministry says nearly 26000 people have been killed. most of them children, and women. matter fact, i tell you,

what did this go to? what crime did she commit? was she a terrorist? did this baby fire rockets i just was most of, you know, probably colorado what's happening has to the protest was by the demonstrators calling for the genocide and gaza to stop nearly 85 percent of its people have been forced to move many from home since flattened by is really forces you annex about se, palestinians in casa, on the verge of famine. there being 2 brief pauses, part of deals negotiated by capo rent egypt for the release of is riley captives. helen garza, more than 100 had been swapped in exchange for palestinians held it and it was ready to go his course catastrophic humanitarian crisis in district hospitals have been bombed and doctors forced to carry out surgeries without an aesthetic some of the sick and injured a dying due to

a lack of basic medicine, generations of palestinian families have been wiped out in time. the neighborhoods would use to drop of every day that you know with we don't say i'd arrive at the ceasefire. you know, it's a day that we call into another 1000, but a scene is being either killed or in even injured. and now, southern garza, the last place of refuge, most displays, people at sheltering is being boned. as well says it's war aims to destroy him, us. yet most victims have been civilians. policy named fighters continue to launch attacks on january 22nd. 24 is where the soldiers were killed the most in a single day since the war began. the prime minister netanyahu was pressing on and rejecting the 2 state solution is defined not upsetting them to them. ally the

united states that strongly back to as well as military operation and the causal with money. that the president reiterated his strong conviction and the viability of the test, the solution hosting and see little hope open into the suffering and many fear a full blown bull could erupt in the region on the consumption eve. i'll just see the inside story. the. oh, okay, well that's bringing, i guess in london, ontario, canada micro link is a full the united nation special rep or to when a human rights in the occupied palestinian territory. here in the time of commutes, who is a professor of public policy specializing in gaza with the institute for graduate studies. and in philadelphia, ross seagal, who is an associate professor at stockton university and a specialist in holocaust and genocide studies. i probably will welcome to all 3 of

you. we have an awful lot to cover on this program, but we are of course, looking at the impacts of this conflicts and whether or not it will change history going forward. so moving 3 months of bull while over 25000 people, that 60000 injured, 85 percent of causes displaced and almost 400000 people in gauze it all ready in 5 minutes. on the brink of famine, michael, look, if i can turn to you, this is like a war and modern times like nothing we've seen before. how would you describe it? it certainly is a war replenished with, with war crimes. we can talk with a cobra 7. we can talk as well about these with the way in which israel has conducted this war for the past 3 and a half months of the use of starvation. the denial of the basic necessities of life going to a population. the use of a 2000 pound bombs dropped repeatedly in heavily, uh, subjectively in areas. and the way in which a civilian infrastructure churches, most schools, universities, hospitals,

have all been damaged or destroyed. all of these very clear war crimes sped to rush to attending to you. this conflict appears to have off handed many, many things around the world, including israel's international credibility. and indeed it's on me that there's always being a pillar of its way the security and the state. do you think we can ever go back to the way things well before this conflict? a oh no, of course not. i don't think that there's a going back to before as customers to of october. i think that to the i see game case is already unprecedented. and already a major change because israel is actually standing a trial on the charge of genocide, which no one would have imagined that's just several months ago. so i think that this is a water should a moment with far reaching implications around the world. and it's also very likely

that we will see a decision that it is very plausible there, as well as indeed engaging and genocidal as. and it's a to con, guys, a, a. so again, no, i think that this is a water should the moment that we're waiting to speak right now, i'm time. do you share those thoughts? yes, of course me. i mean, um, as opposed to the end of this a significant for us as part of students because it's a very, it was established on uh, an occupied land on, in, in 1948. and of course this, i mean, the foundation of this occupation was the, what's happened the new to the holocaust, which is that in this crime. so now it's for this that 1st time history, we see the grand sons and daughters of the holocaust survivors standing in front of the system, the injustice they have to answer for, for the good, for what they're doing for the cotton photo crimes, which is the genocide them does it,

so it's extremely significant what's happening. and i think that the bidding is whole, the whole, but for the comfortability, for the input, for justice. and i'm most important the hopes for ending this occupation. what some sort or i mean if, if, if is a eventually starts feeling, the pressure, the understanding that a precautions of what this has, what it has done in gaza. uninstalled has done that for keeping it's a good patient and full of what's happening and doesn't know this good, good, good to bring us closer to the rules of the ending this conflict. it's better than at the national with already in the nation. when to put pressure on an insulin and to find ways to end discrimination once on forever. i just remind of you as we are recording this before, the international court of justice makes any kind of ruling of a in the hey, but some picking up on something you've mentioned that time. and i want to put this to michael if i can. the conflict seems to have exposed massive international contradictions in the world or to with western powers, especially the u. k. the united states and germany continuing to shield israel from

international criticism. what does this moment mean for the post 2nd world world world war or the other one is that of course has been dominated by european on western powers for so long a good rate with respect to this. and in many ways this, this more this assault on, on gas, as, as exposed to fracture points between the global north and the, and the global cells. we've seen overwhelming opinion in the global cells in favor of a ceasefire as, as early as late october. and this was expressed in the un general assembly resolution, which voted overwhelmingly, i think the vote was a $153.00 to $10.00 in favor of a, an immediate cease fire. and over welling supported by countries from the global sales, with the global north, either of staining or voting that or voting against. and we see these pressure points in the way in which we talked about international law. after all, it was

a global north york and north america who put into place our modern system of international law. and yet when it comes to vital issues like israel and palestine, we see international law being disregard it. it's a concept of international law for the but not for me. we can think of the many ways in which the united nations resolutions of a said that israel is violating international all through atlantic station through it's uh, it's settlements through its refusal to recognize this as an occupation through the refusal of palestinian self determination. all of these are well imbedded in international law. i've developed an insignificant bird by the golden north, yet it refuses to apply this. and the reason why we have such a horrible war going on a gas a now is a lack of accountability over the last 75 years in the last 56 years with respect to israel's conduct towards the palestinians. right, right. so that's an interesting point raised by michael, that there is this,

the fisher there is this divide between the global? no, but i'm the global south between the traditional center of global power and many developing companies in the global south. and those big the question now, where is the moral access globally or i think it's to the, it's to just to follow on what uh michael said to him besides that the, the, when the international legal system reimbursed after world war 2, genocide was its key innovation right, the crime of genocide and was really based in many ways on the idea that the holocaust of a nazi assault against jews was, was unique. so the, the idea that the holocaust was unique was very foundational in the emergence of the crime of genocide. and therefore, israel, when it emerged as the states, the jewish state, the state of the holocaust survivors, it also actually became unique in this international framework. so, impunity for israel was really big into the international legal system from the

very beginning. and it was based actually, paradoxically, on the crime of, of genocide, some of the cartridge and the site really served to ensure disappear and it needs a shield israel from international law to, to create the sub sort of situation where we're seeing decades as michael said, of violations across violations of international law. uh by israel. now this is why this is such a water shooting moment because israel genocide, the on guys is so clear. it's so interface because getting style intent, it's like, you know, well heard and seen it so clearly. right? so now genocide actually service right to hold, right, we all hope to see hold as real accountable. and this is why this is such a water shooting moment because the meaning of the concept of genocide, right? and the international legal system is changing. and as i said, this has far reaching implications beyond the case of israel and palestine,

the beyond, guys for marginalize, for per security loops around the world. because this is an opportunity, really the change in a fundamental way, the international legal system and how it functions, primarily for marginalize, in particular groups in the global south. so rather if i understand you correctly, you let me is to, to, to time uh, it appears as if the entire system is already being for a very long time, skewed towards israel. is that the reason tom, uh why it is now very difficult in the to find any consensus, any kind of strategy for permanently ending this conflict to where they come out with something concrete. when it comes to the circle, they often as you know needs. i mean, i mean, that has been like so many international resolutions in favor of palestine and favorite all of the students having independence. i think that i taught their own state live longer side by what they said i am, but the thing is with enforcements, i mean the, the, i think, i mean, you have all the citizen oceans. i mean,

i come up to quote all of them now. but the us as own was more or less protected, they said and enable the continue with the commission to us on certain was that lives of course. and, and that's a problem. the problem is, is what it is treated as a, as a, as a, as a state, the above international. i know it's coming up, but i as dates. and it's also, it's becoming more of a, some of the ability even for its own allies and fuckers in the, in the west. because i mean, i mean this many of these spots for most of the countries that are the ones who are involved in establishing that the national and low as we see it now, especially after the 2nd world war. now they kind of keep they focusing on the complicit complicity to treat these are the for the then but any other countries. so and, and, and so that's the problem. the problem is enough for the all funding is an umbrella protection and it has to be if, if it's a member of the international community, it has obligations and it has to please be treated stomach and the other country.

and when this happens, then we haven't at the level that it's comfortable by with and it's going to be respected. now when it comes to the future of guys, the end of the after what we see so far it is sadly again. busy we see tendencies to repeats. uh, what also pro which, which means imposing a deal on the scene is that they have no c and it's the excluding a key part to keep political pop t like thomas from any future negotiations. and, and, and, and, and, and that's a problem. i mean $11.00 keisha would also that it was a but not middle one, but a student. the consensus, the. busy the piano at the time that by set the and the it was back to the sign a piece agreement with, with the growth. nothing. because the fraser as refusing to abide was also a piece of goods. now, how about us as an outcome of the sphere? the process of, of this 25 years of failed experiences failed piece process,

which was peaceful by law. i know what's happening is the tendency, again to impose a solution for the student is that neglect? so keep the sooner the party like thomas. so it's, it's going to in the middle of the game. okay, so tell me if i understand you correctly, there is a danger that could be repeated by potentially marginalizing certain palestinian voices that will be in this entire proposal. the possibility of palestinian statehood. a 2 state solution could potentially bike 5. michael, let me turn to you because in the past 2 weeks we've had the us the u. k. the you will reiterate the need, the urgency for a 2 state solution that spring, and of course the united nations position for so long. now we'll have in bold and benjamin netanyahu to now say flatly, no, as well. i think the main reason is that he's never learned or never known any cost for the occupation. if you can continue building settlements, a war crime under international law without any consequences, he can maintain to manage the occupation and not engage in any kind of

a piece talks real or not with the palestinians and not face any uh, any cost for doing this. um, he has a strong diplomatic shield, liliana me of the united states, protecting him. so he's able to continue with the settlements, which makes the 2 state solution and possible. keep in mind that as you know, when the international community, particularly the global north, keeps on talking about a 2 state solution. this becomes a sweet spot for israel and it's far right government because it will. so it's a possibility that there is we can, we can devise a work whole 2 state solution all the while, while israel face has no consequences in continuing to quit more settlers and build more settlements in east jerusalem. and the west bank, which makes that impossible. and that's the same thing, true for the united states. it talks about a 2 state solution, but does nothing to stop israel for making that a possibility a, a, a reality. so, i'm afraid, you know, he's give israel one of suffering

a political nervous breakdown in 2005, when we moved 8000 settlers from, from guys, a waterway to expect when israel has somewhere between 725740000 settlers in eastern rules on the west bank, which the international community says is designated palestinian state. how are we to believe that a 2 state solution now is even possible. rugs cleaned an awful lot of frustration coming from the u. k, the u. s. germany and others on the you earlier on this week about budget nothing y'all who's on bending position when it comes to to say she lives solutions. you think of a long run. it's going to hurt israel. i mean it's, uh, i think that israel force is uh, will find itself now in a very difficult situation. again, as i said, i think it's likely that we'll see a i c, j uh decision tomorrow that it's plausible that as well as conducting unicycle acts

that will put it to israel and severe isolation internationally, also among its allies primarily uh the u. s. there's also an ongoing coord case that will actually will have a session of it on friday, right after the i see jade decision in california. the case that the center for constitutional rights has brought against a president biden and against a lincoln in austin, on complicity with genocide and failure to present prevents genocide by the us. continued to support israel militarily and diplomatically, and with an icy j rolling israel's elyse ends not only israel's allies, but you know, think about any university, any company, any state around the world will now need to continue or not continue its engagement with israel with the knowledge that it's very possible that israel has and is conducting genocide all packaged in gaza. so yes, i think that israel is in,

it's very difficult, a situation and, and which, which adds, of course, to the fact that this is a watershed moment and the with it, as i said, for a change locations, it's very, it's very difficult to know. so in roswell, just just to recap on where we are with this case because the case was board, of course, just remind me of us by south africa and accusing israel of committing genocide. and to be clear, that decision on genocide could be years away if it comes a tool. but at this stage, the court will issue an injunction known as provisional measures in order to prevent isabel from continuing its been a treat campaign. the point being on the ground so that in genocide may be plausible time. oh is it, do you think that's something the united states knows about? israel is conduct and this conflicts for the well doesn't as the name of, i mean is sadly that the state is, is, is as

a popular please that are in this and this, what i mean, it's supplying, insulated with intelligence with the, with weapons, with logistics. i mean, name it, i mean it also contained is ready to, from the one you know, uh to ensure that this conflict won't turn into additional conflict. so the americans, i'm designing these are in bed together sub that means. so yes, of course, i mean that us knows a lot about it and that, but i hope i hope i please. i mean, the americans also have realized that things are getting out of control under becoming so ugly. they since the international. and i'm good all for the continuation of this genocide, the road on guys a and and what, what you being able to these, i mean, i mean so, so i think that i hope that i'm at the point to realize that too much protection for is that a would be would bring more light, but it just to them as well. so, and the able, at least to use this case to, to,

to put pressure on isn't to end the sort. i'm 2 or 3 days of the piece. i mean, that's the only way to go. this conflict cut off to be ended that come up and by violence or by contribution for completion. it's some, it's all for these times out over thomas. so that is your hopes going for that this has to be, i want to shed moment going forward. let me turn in the last couple of minutes of the show to michael and then ross to also share what you think from what you've seen in recent days. recent weeks might be something that we can pin hope on going forward. let's start with you, michael. i wish like a pinhole with respect to this. you know, it, history is full of occasions when there was a turning point and somehow history didn't turn. i thought that the history that reached the turning point in 1993 with the also of course, all right on history had reached the turning point for the 2nd and the center in 2002 in 2003 with a thought that maybe there was a roadmap to the piece and an a tuesday solution. and i'm as as awful as the

situation is now with over 25000 palestinians killed. and again i was a flat and i am not convinced that history will wind up turning. and this point either, so we have to think of base our hopes on, on what's realistic on the ground rather than rather than a pure hope on this. thank you, michael enter. you rouse, you will hopes. yeah, i think that the situation and guys catastrophic and we need to keep this funded center. i. i don't think that it's, you know, i don't think that we can really speak maybe in the language of hope as michael said. but i think that we are hearing more of the palestinian perspectives. we with the streets around the world. there is, you know, in the us has experienced the largest and longest protest movements and its history since the vietnam war and across the world. there are protest, this is really what led south africa to file a case and the i c j. so this is actually a moment, i think that there we're seeing more of the truths of what's going on in israel and

palestine. not only since the month of october, but the broader context of is really subtler colonialism and mass violence, cent village, our conviction and siege and so on. and the truth is, i think very, very important if we think about moving forward, if we think about just a 6 weeks think about the possible political a settlement. so again, i don't think that we can talk about hope when we see the levels of catastrophic disruption and killing in garza, which shouldn't be really front and center for us. but i think that there is, i think there is potential in this water should a moment for choose for justice. we see it from below from the street. and that's very encouraging. and as i said, i think there's also so far reaching implications for the international legal system here for millions of people around the world or under attack or persecuted and this, this could now signal a huge. so there is hope, although we have clearly a very, very long way to go sign queue,

all 3 of you feel contributions. michael link crowds to go time a candidate and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out just here, a don't comment for further discussion guide. well, facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is as a j inside story for being default on the whole team here. bye for now. the as a, as well as video on gaza continues. we bring you relate. we are on the grounding, gaza covering the ongoing is raising apartments and the suffering. the people told us that we lost displacements and block of resources and from public height is

called a health data race and restrictions prevent freedom replacements of rights to worship . from tyler we will continue our coverage of his route, will cabinet decisions, the campuses, and all the political development part westbank. we see new reporting on the line at this rate he raised with feelings of loss, dissension, and destruction. stay with us for the updates and detail coverage of the wrong cause of the what happens in new york has implications all around the world to make these stories resonate requires talking to everyday people from mayor of the city and now sending doing away with the 1st few that was supposed to get everybody off the street. it's international perspective with the human touch mean way in and then

pulling back out again. the government challenges what constitutes accenture we just talked to receive. i want you to start with just the fence runners to what happened is independent. we won't be, we want the education. my wants to be the. we don't have lead them in different countries. policy on it's meant to get 50 percent representation and accountability and benefit knowing that was and service this placement and you're saying you don't have your reports with it. i should just trust that unity austin is 5 times the crew that used to produce outstanding gentleness. and elders, the integrity in the pursuit of

the the hello, i'm sammy's a dan. this is the news live from the coming up in the next 60 minutes is riley tanks, fire. it's palestinians waiting for a didn't gaza city killing at least 20 people as well. demolish is buildings to create a so called buffer zone in garza, despite warnings from the us. also i had.