just stays opposed to what's happening now. it is a question of 5 unflinching questions. rigorous the bank that he added to 2 days that another thing is taking place. augusta. nothing goes into garza without us of permits. and nothing leaves casa without result. permission allow me to push back for a moment, demanding a ceasefire, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this byron upfront. without 0. israel is driving ahead with his genocide a war on gaza. it, well, it's massacring palestinians, it's failing to destroy him. us as a world watches israel is carrying out of that small so with western supplied weapons without restraint. so all we add a pivotal point in history for both the policy and people and israel. this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program and the bulk of the level of violence unleashed by israel and have mass since october is unprecedented. even in the history already stained by conflict and injustice. since the state of israel was established, the great wound of history for palestinians, the macbook will catastrophe. now as a modern count of pots with a level of death, destruction displacement and despair unimaginable of the decades of repression they've suffered. for his release of mazda slows and capture of so many of its citizens, a shock to nation, whose identity stems from the horrors of world war 2 seems reminiscence of those times on now, the landscape of much of gauze is being flattered and by weapons mostly supplied by the us and western allies and cools for a cease fire light by the united nations. i'm echoed around the world, have been rejected by as well as far right government. so is the will with missing

across roads in history for the palestinians and israelis, along with the western allies. and what does this will mean for the integrity of international law and the kind of weld, or that will be asking our panel of gas, these questions. and just a few moments time, but 1st consume sharif report. so how this war unfolded, this whole homos attack southern is while on october, the 7th. the most fluoride government in the country's history had been ramping up the tax. i'm kidding. so palestinians from early 2023 rates, including attacks and refugee camps in the okay, pod westbank and occupied east jerusalem. adding to cooling numbers of attacks on palestinians by this riley settlers incursions by jews a month or from a don't last year. it's rarely please subtract, were supposed inside the most causing move widespread, and the you and sex with the general lead to implied such events and decades of

oppression. but her pre closer to come off is weights. it is important to also recognize the effects by our minds, the not happen in a vacuum of the policy didn't people have been subjected to 56 years of civil gauging, occupation officer. crippling 16 year is rarely blockade goss us. 2.4000000 palestinians announced facing the full force of the nothing yahoo governments, genocide is a very slow and we are at war. i'm not an operational. how much has launched a murder, a surprise attack against the state of israel and its citizens, thereby ordered. first of all, to clayton's, the settlements from the terrorist food infiltrated and ordered a large scale mobilization to preserves. the enemy will pay a price. he's never known. cause of health ministry says nearly 26000 people have been killed. most of them, children and women. matter fact, i tell you,

what did this go to? what crime did she commit? was she a terrorist? did this baby fire rock? it was most of you know, probably colorado what's happening has predict protest was by the demonstrators calling for the genocide and gaza to stop nearly 85 percent of its people have been forced to move many from home since flattened by is really forces you annex about se, palestinians in casa on the verge of simon. they've been to brief pauses, part of deals negotiated by cops around egypt for the release of is riley captives . helen garza, more than 100, had been swapped in exchange for palestinians held it and is ready to go. his course catastrophic humanitarian crisis in district hospitals have been bombed and doctors forced to carry out surgeries without an aesthetics. some of the

sick and injured a dying due to a lack of basic medicine. generations of palestinian families have been wiped out in time. a neighborhood stood you still top of every day that you know with we don't say i live at the cease fire. you know, it's a day that we call into another 1000, but a scene is being either killed or in even injured. and now, southern garza, the last place of refuge and most displays, people at sheltering is being boned, as well says it's will aims to destroy him us yet. most victims have been civilians . policy named fighters continue to launch attacks on january 22nd. 24 is where the soldiers were killed the most in a single day since the war began. the prime minister netanyahu was pressing on and rejecting the 2 state solution is defined not upsetting them to them. ally the

united states that strongly back to as well as military operation and the causal with money. that the president reiterated his strong conviction and the viability of the test, the solution hosting and see little hope open into the suffering and many fear a full blown bull could erupt individually on the consumption eve. i'll just see the full inside story. the. oh, okay, well let spring and i guess in london, ontario, canada, my cooling cars are full of the united nation special rep or to when a human rights in the occupied palestinian territory. here in the time of commutes, who is a professor of public policy specializing in gaza with the institute for graduate studies. and in philadelphia, ross seagal, who is an associate professor at stockton university and a specialist in holocaust and genocide studies. i probably will welcome to all 3 of

you. we have an awful lot to cover on this program, but we are of course, looking at the impacts of this conflicts and whether or not it will change history going forward. so moving 3 months of bull while over 25000 people, that 60000 injured, 85 percent of gauze is displaced and almost 400000 people. and going as they were ready in 5 minutes on the brink of famine, michael link. if i can turn to you, this is like a war, and more than time, the way in which israel is conducted this war for the past 3 and a half months of the use, the starvation, the denial of the basic necessities of life, going to a population the use of a 2000 pound bombs dropped repeatedly in heavily uh, centered civilian areas, and the way in which a civilian infrastructure churches, most schools, universities, hospitals, have all been damaged or destroyed. all of these very clear war crimes sped to rush

to attending to you. this conflict is to have off handed many, many things around the world, including israel's international credibility. and indeed it's all me that there's always been a pillar of its way the security and the state. do you think we can ever go back to the way things well before this conflict? oh no, of course not. i don't think that there's uh, going back to before as customers to of october. i think that to the i see a case is already unprecedented and already a major change because israel is actually standing a trial on the charge of genocide which no one would have imagined that's just several months ago. so i think that this is a water should a moment was far reaching implications around the world. it's also very likely that we will see a decision, or that it is very plausible that israel has indeed engaging a genocidal ass. and it's a to con, guys, a a. so again, no, i think that this is

a water should the moment that we're waiting to speak right now, i'm tom. do you share those thoughts? yes, of course me. i mean them. um, as opposed to me and this is significant for us as better students because it's a, it was established on uh an occupied land on, in, in 1948. and of course this, i mean, the foundation of this, like i just remind me of here is we are recording this before the international court of justice makes any kind of ruling of a, in the hey, but some picking up on something you've mentioned that time. and i want to put this to michael if i can. the can succeed, serve expose massive international contradictions in the world or to with western powers, especially the u. k. the united states and germany continuing to shield israel from international criticism. what does this moment mean for the post 2nd world world

world war or the other one is that of course has been dominated by european on western powers for so long a good rate with respect to this, a little issues like a israel and palestine. we see international law being disregard it. it's a concept of international law for the but not for me. we can think of the many ways in which the united nations resolutions of a said that israel is violating international all through atlantic station through it's up in, in significant part by the global north you had, it refuses to apply this. and the reason why we have such a horrible war going on a gas and now is the lack of a kind of ability over the last 75 years in the last 56 years with respect to israel's conduct towards the palestinians. right, right. so that's an interesting point raised by michael, that there is this, the fisher there is this divide between the global but, and the global south between the traditional center of global power and many developing countries the, to just to follow on with. uh, michael said,

i need to emphasize that the, the, when the international legal system, reimbursed after world war 2 genocide was its key innovation. right? the crime of genocide and was really based in many ways on the idea that the holocaust of a nazi assault against jews was, was unique. so the, the idea that the holocaust was unique was very foundational in the emergence of the cry of genocide. and therefore, israel, when it emerged as the states, the jewish state, the state of the holocaust survivors, it also actually became unique in this international framework. so, impunity for israel was really baked into the international legal system from the very beginning. and it was based actually, paradoxically, on the crime of, of genocide, some of the cartridge and the site really served to ensure disappear and it needs a shield israel from international law to, to create the sub sort of situation where we're seeing decades as michael said,

of violations across violations of international law by israel. now this is why this is such a watershed moment because israel genocide, if the on guys is so clear, it's so interface because in a style intent, it's like, you know, we've all heard and seen it so clearly, right? so now genocide actually service right to hold, right. we all hope to see hold is real accountable. and this is why is this such a watershed moment? because the meaning of the concept of genocide, right, and the international legal system is changing. and as i said, this has far reaching implications beyond the case of israel and palestine. the beyond, guys for marginalized, for persecuted loops around the world. because this is an opportunity, really the change in a fundamental way, the international legal system and how it functions, primarily for marginalize, in particular groups in the global south. so ross, if i understand you correctly and let me place to, to, to time uh, it appears as if the entire system is already being for probably

a long time skewed towards israel. it's not the reason tom uh why it is now very difficult indeed to find any consensus, any kind of strategy for permanently ending this conflict to where are they coming up with something concrete when it comes to the circle they often as you know needs, i mean i mean, that has been like so many international resolutions in favor of palestine and favorite all of the students having independence. i think that i taught their own state live longer side by what they said i am. but the thing is with enforcements, i mean that i think, i mean you have all the citizen oceans. i mean, i kinda have to quote all of them now. but the us as own was more or less predict the days of and enable the continue with the commission to us on certain was that lives of course and, and that's a problem. the problem is, is what it is treated as a, as a, as a, as a state above international. i know it's coming up, but i as dates. and it's also,

it's becoming more of a, some of the ability even for its own allies and fuckers in the, in the west. because i mean, i mean this many of these spots for most of the countries, the ones who are involved in establishing that the national and low as we see, you know, especially after the 2nd world war, i know they kind of keep they focusing on the complicit complicity for 3 days or the for the then but any other countries. so and, and, and so that's the problem. the problem is enough for the all funding, is there a number of protection and it has to be if, if it's a member of the international community, it has obligations and it has to please be treated stomach and the other country. and when this happens, then we haven't at the level that it's comfortable by with and it's going to be respected. now when it comes to the future of guys, the end of the after what we see so far it is sadly again. busy we see tendencies to repeats. what also pro, with which means, imposing

a deal on the scene is that they have no c and it's the excluding a key part to keep political property like thomas from any future negotiations and, and, and, and, and that's a problem. i mean $11.00 keisha would also that it was a but not middle one, but a student. the consensus, the. busy the piano at the time that by set the and the it was back to the sign of disagreement with the growth nothing. because the phase as the fuse of to abide was also a piece of goods. now how about us as an outcome of the sphere? the process of, of this $25.00, he's a failed experience, has failed piece process, which was peaceful by law. i know what's happening is the tendency, again to impose a solution for the student is that neglects, i keep the sooner to pump the like thomas. so it's, it's going to in the middle of the game. okay, so tell me if i understand you correctly, there is a danger that could be repeated by potentially marginalizing certain policy before

the us the u. k. the you will reiterate the need and the urgency for a 2 state solution it spring. and of course the united nations position for so long now would have in bold and benjamin netanyahu to now say flatly, no, as well. i think the main reason is, is that he's never learned or never known any cost for the occupation. if you can continue building settlements, a war crime under international law without any consequences, he can maintain to manage the occupation and not engage in any kind of a piece talks real or not with the palestinians and not face any uh, any cost for doing this. um, he has a strong diplomatic shield of being on it may not states protecting him. so he's able to continue with the supplements which makes the 2 state solution and possible . keep in mind that as you know, when the international community, particularly the global north, keeps on talking about a 2 state solution. this becomes

a sweet spot for israel and it's far right government because it's so it's a possibility that there is we can, we can devise a work whole 2 state solution all the while, while israel faces no consequences and continuing to put more settlers and build more settlements in east jerusalem and the west bank, which makes that impossible. and that's the same thing. true for the united states . it talks about a 2 state solution, but does nothing to stop israel for making that a possibility a, a reality. so, i'm afraid you'll always give israel one of suffering a political nervous breakdown in 2005 when removed. 8000 settlers from from guys, a waterway to expect. when israel has somewhere between 725740000 settlers in eastern rules on the west bank, which the international community says is designated palestinian state. how are we to believe that a 2 state solution now is even possible. rugs cleaned an awful lot of frustration coming from the u. k. the u. s. germany and others on the you earlier on this week

about budget nothing yahoo is on bending position when it comes to to say she lives solution to think of a long run. it's going to hurt israel. i mean, it's a, i think that israel force is uh, will find itself now in a very difficult situation. again, as i said, i think it's likely that we'll see the i c j uh decision tomorrow that it's plausible that as well as conducting unicycle acts that will put it to israel and severe isolation internationally, also among its allies primarily uh the u. s. there's also an ongoing court in case that will actually will have a session of it on friday, right after the i c j decision in california. the case that the center for constitutional rights has brought against a president biden and against a lincoln in austin,

on complicity with genocide and failure to present prevents genocide by the us. continued to support israel militarily and diplomatically with an icy j rolling israel's allies. and not only israel's allies, but you know, think about any university, any company, any state around the world will now need to continue or not continue its engagement with israel with the knowledge that it's very possible that israel has and is conducting a site or a package and guides us. yes, i think that is real and it's a very difficult a situation um and which, which adds of course to the fact that this is a watershed moment. um and the with it, as i said, for example, the patient, it's very, it's very difficult and there's also a run. well, just just to recap on where we are with this case because the case was board, of course, just remind me of us by south africa and accusing israel of committing genocide.

and to be clear, that decision on genocide could be use a way if it comes a tool. but at this stage, the court will issue an injunction known as provisional measures in order to prevent isabel from continuing its been a treat campaign. the point being on the ground so that in genocide may be plausible to time always. and you think there's something the united states knows about israel is conduct. and this conflicts that the world doesn't as the name of, i mean is sadly that the state is, is, is, is a popular please that are in this, and this, what i mean it's supplying, insulated with intelligence with the, with weapons, with logistics. i mean name it's, i mean, it also contained his way to, from the one you know, to ensure that this conflict won't turn into additional conflict. so the americans, and these are you, these are in bed together sub that means. so yes, of course, i mean that us knows a lot about it and that, but i hope i hope i please. i mean,

the americans also have realized that things are getting out of control under becoming so ugly. they, since the international. and i'm good of the continuation of this genocide, the road on guys and, and what, what you being able to these, i mean, i mean so, so i think that i hope that i'm at the point to realize that 2 months protection, 4 days a week would bring more light, but it just to them as well. so on the able to please to use this case to, to, to put pressure on is what i'm to end the sort i'm tooth. what is the piece? i mean, that's the only way to do this conflict cut off to be ended up going up and by violence or by contribution for completion. it's some, it's over these times are over thomas. so that is your hopes going for that this has to be, i want to shed moment so going forward. let me turn in the last couple of minutes of the show to michael and then ross to also share what you think from what you've seen in recent days. recent weeks might be something that we can pin hope on going

forward. let's start with you, michael. i wish like a pinhole with respect to this, you know, it, history is full of occasions when there was a turning point and somehow history didn't turn. i thought that the history that reached attorney point in 1993 with the oslo accords as on history had reached the turning point for the 2nd and the found to in 20022003 with a thought that maybe there was a roadmap to the piece and then a 2 state solution. and i'm as, as awful as the situation is now with over 25000 palestinians killed. and again i was a flat and i am not convinced that history will wind up turning. and this point either . so we have to think our base our hopes on, on what's realistic on the ground rather than, rather than a pure hope on this. thank you, michael enter. you rouse your hopes or yeah, i think that the situation and guys catastrophic. and we need to keep this funded center. i suspect it was we with the streets around the world. there is, you know,

in the us has experienced the largest and longest protest movements in its history . since the vietnam warren across the world, there are protest. this is really what lead south africa to files case and the i c j. so this is actually a moment, i think that there we're seeing more of the truths of what's going on in israel and palestine, not only since the month of october, but the broader context of is really settling colonialism and mass violence. any village, occupation, and speech, and so on. and the truth is, i think very, very important if we think about moving forward. if we think about justice, if we think about it shouldn't be really front and center for us. but i think that there is, i think there is potential in this water should a moment for juice, for justice. we see it from below from the street. and that's very encouraging. and as i said, i think there's also so far reaching implications for the international legal system here for millions of people around the world or under

a task were persecuted and this, this could now signal a huge. so there is hope, although we have clearly a very, very long way to go fund q, all 3 of you feel contributions. michael link crowds to go time a candidate and thank you to for watching. you can see the problem again. any time by visiting a website, how is there a don't comment for further discussion guide? well, facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on the x handle is as a j inside story from the default. and the whole team here, the what constitutes exempt. so we just talked, you were saying, i want you to start with just the fact runners to what happened as independent. we

won't be so we want the education i want to we don't have to leave them in different countries. in the policy, i'm going to get 50 percent representation and accountability benefits. know 1000 service this placement and then you're saying you'll have your reports for that. i should just trust the community often as the crew that used to produce outstanding gentleness and elders, the integrity in the pursuit of oil rich, your rock is facing a crisis and a final bike to results water as dams built by its upstream neighbors, restrict flow under investment and climate change, or exacerbate the situation. now when regions were settled, funding 1st emerge, pensions are rapidly rising. people in power investigates whether this could be the

last generation to farm the land. iraq's walter was parked one of 2 on the jersey to the the tools and everything is good. even explained the torture, all types of torture. it was unbelievable. they with this, with the bucks of their guns on our heads. 5 soldiers, speeding poor. we've been occupied and in prison i have the right to boycott. anyone i want to and the state has no business getting involved in that. and 3 pod series explodes, the implications of us and people who called lowest the freedom of speech and 1st amendment. how many wars would i have to face in this legislation? thing use it to flush receipts of anyone who supports black was or is involved in

protesting for environmental reason. and it's like 10 words pod, 3, the template on out you 0, the the hello until mccrae. this has been use our live from coming up in the next 60 minutes, another noise of strikes and gone. so this time of residential apartment block is head killing 3 people, and then to embed x expect it in south africa's genocide case of israel's actions and gaza will be live at the hague. the threat of famine looms lodge in the gaza strip. half the population is at risk of style session. hundreds of thousands of

dollars of children controversy over a new method of execution, a convicted motor in alabama if it comes with.