loss of war between an israel. this is a war against palestinians. exploring a 112 cloths programming. we are basically a digital firm, see an investigator, but we're doing it from space design to inform multi verse. i think spa, you want to compete at the olympic games. they come, stay, relax, see the well from a different perspective on elders here. will israel or beta really heavy you and popcorn seems national court of justice has ordered israel to prevent acts of genocide in the office and it says it has a month to report on a to find what does this really mean to kind of thing into a trust and on the inside the

header there and welcome to the program. i'm this call is here to the united nations top court has ordered israel to take measures to prevent genocide in gaza and allow in humanitarian aid. things that optional goals of justice issued to their ruling on friday and the case that was filed by south africa judges diversion overwhelmingly in favor of 6 emergency measures that included austin israel to punish those inciting genocide. so how will this really impact israel's war on garza and how much other countries pressure israel to comply? let's continue to discuss with, i guess. but for us, this report from michael apple takes a closer look at the i. c. j's reading. said that in a historic ruling, the world cortez the 10 days, plausible evidence of genocide and folding in gods, a judgment welcomed in palestine. it means that the cries and suffering or fall of people in garza have been to the great hall of justice. do you ins,

top quotes, also known as the international court of justice, says israel must take 6 provisional measures to ensure the palestinian people are protected and submit to reports within a month detailing its compliance. saw that africa brought the case to the i, c, j accusing israel, of violating international lawyers on genocide in the territory. and it sees the ruling is victory for human rights. the whole purpose was really that it has by till to highlight the plight of the innocent in palestine and to also alert the international community to the great home that is being done to the people of post. i'm these really prime minister's response was one of defiance, condemning the ruling and calling it a disgrace. israel's commitment to international law is unwavering. equally

unwavering is our sacred commitment to continue to defend our country and defend our people. a like every country. israel has an inherent right to defend itself. the vile attempt to deny is real. this fundamental right is blinking discrimination against the jewish state. but still for palestinians, this is a water shed moment in the struggle for the duration, for me is really occupation and its wall. yeah. and menu and all watching to see how sort of africa will use this ruling to increase its diplomatic efforts in cooling for an in israel is go inside the gaza strip. mike level for inside story. the whole that's not bringing, i'll guess in london, we have name is so tiny, a read it and public law at so as to be an investor of london. he's also the edison and chief of the palestine yearbook of international and melvin australia. we have

jeffrey robinson and human rights virus, the and also the founder of doubt, history chambers, one of the largest human rights legal practices in europe. also joining us today from london is chris got us a former spokes person for the un agency for palestinian refugees. and also the founder of the me on law accountability project. i would welcome to you. well, thank you jen, hold on for joining us today on inside story. now the i c j hasn't just said that there's the positive pros ability of genocide taking pace is also implemented these 6 emergency measures. and i know there's been plenty of concerns about the i c, j here not courting for a ceasefire, but by my understanding the i, c. j only has jurisdiction but of the states, right? so here it has jurisdiction, or the israel, it doesn't have jurisdiction or the mouse and will be faced by would actually take 2 parties in order to comply. we've had the from the id bundle, the south african foreign minister saying that that these 6 measures effectively amount to a factor seized by chris. you worked on the ground that what do you make of that is

this effectively is he's fine without necessarily cooling at one. well, 1st of all, let me say that the i, c j routing is the historical historic milestone in the long run into the palestinians, towards dignity and justice, and states who and yes, i agree, i have worked on the grounds and it is the is really all me does, well, it's now legally binding they've been told by legally binding adjustment by the school to, to stop killing either that's the 1st possible sky. 2 of the conventions cease actions which hom, both mentally and physically promoting conditions apply. the tendency babies being killed is the idea actually does that. then as a south african subset, it's a day fact to cease like, how can you deliver humanitarian aid unless there's a ceasefire? so i think besides the quote was very, very clever because ultimately, well they all schooled was american foreign policy tools as well. they said okay,

deceased by may be typical, but essentially plain couldn't keep saying in the absence of that let's just have a to here. let's do international law and by the way, the other important thing that was said is it, it's a reclusive, my name is the convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide. i just don't know who made it very clear that 3 people in particular have prime minister netanyahu a defense minister, your of guns and the president. it's i can't so they are guilty of inciting genocide. i'm the convention is very clear. they have to be punished. an israel has to report back within 30 days on the steps it's doing to implement that. so i think what i say this is a historic most of it moves the whole debate about palestine. yes, the rules of occupation, all that matters. humanitarian little all that much as we can now talk about the little of genocide, the crime of crimes and news organizations and commentate to such as those on a program can legitimately talk about israel's responsibility to stop and prevent

genocide and the state policies. the convention america, britain, they have to bring meaningful pressure on israel. i'm thinking of america's $4000000000.00 worth of military aid and all the diplomatic and political protection in the 6 you as a council, they helped to use all of that to see the convention in preventive. we've moved to a new phase and that's why yes, today was truly historic. and you might say, you're noting that let me bring you in here. no schedule, reflect on the magnitude of this really be that agree with this is when your mental decision by the doesn't cause of justice. on the one hand was south africa submitted its application to these a couple of justice. it already changed the conversation. it changed to the west and none of the of the war on guys out on the policy and people. i know that i did as a court of justice. the highest court in the international legal system have basic

as basically except to the south african. the date is that is of genocide here. that this is beyond the simply violation of international laws of war and this risk of genocide against a substantial part of the best. and people require action, indigent action, 1st of all, from the court, but also from all the states. but these, the need to be to discharge their obligation to prevent a genocide and obviously as i said, the but we started measures such as the requirement for me is to allow effective and immediate humanitarian assistance require scaling down drastically. as i submitted 3 patients, if not complete a ceasefire because the court officer site to the wants to get the general who said

that you might do it. and systems is not possible with the continuation of the a model manager. and this really made its way down incursions. so in order for us to have to comply with these, that provision of the measures, it has to allow of us getting down of the meditation. in addition to addition, as chris said, the political repercussions of this legal routing, the far reaching on the one hand, it includes a special on his right of both, internally, externally. we so internally that is that all of this content. now it, because the war hasn't achieved its aims, degree of names by the say, government. the families of the hostages are now increasingly protesting. there is a beginning of progress against the war and some anxiety, cities. and there's a few sessions in the media that the hosts go long in the war for his political

survivor. and now, externally, this rooting will embarrass all of the rest of them back as of, as i'm because now they have been possibly supporting a genocide. and now any action they will be taking would be just a visa, be their obligation to prevent genocide. i mean i, i want to get into the mission creative of all those physical consequences and just a moment. but i want to pick up on something that, that chris mentioned earlier, your use the phrase legally binding. we know this ruling is legally binding, but crucially, the courts, the i, c, j does not have an enforcement mechanism. we've had already from prime minister benjamin us and yahoo! he says that he's rejected the ruling outright so it doesn't look like as well as likely to comply with what the court is asking for here. jeffrey, let me bring you into this discussion. what legal recourse is that if israel says no, we're just not going to do it. and there is no legal recalls the court. the same court

over 2 years ago, the rule jean at or against russia would could. and most recently destructed the order and broke from the law or against aggression by invading an innocent country, namely, quinton and ukraine went to the cold and the cold made use to unanimous city old russia to pull seats. um, the clothes need didn't put the who is massive or criminal on many people refused and so winter on was not both. but i do see that the importance of the ruling goes be on it on for should been woochie because this is not russia. everyone has to do the right thing because each car whip is israel as nuclear

weapons. but it depends on the support of western power, particularly the united states, but also your pin countries. and if there's one course lie, that is being used by all wished in countries in commenting on the go as it will ease we might use room must be international law. these rabbits invest itself is bounded sales, indeed support it to into that she will not be quote by 1st of all except be the case for the school. they do restriction, that was the main issue. and that's the issue that is really a loss. so is it cool? speaks is it so it's complex to give a who is and does give

a few will. first of all, the cool use that have mass should release unconditionally the hostages. this uses of seem to be taken from me. so it is the 2nd order and perhaps we move to court because it is uh, enforced by permission from these rooms backers, is that you should need the restroom stub ration and about 2 minutes here and convoy easy. and then there are problems for do sewage issue and when they did out say it is complying with and what uh well let me jump in the brain because i. ready was like, you mentioned a very important point in which was minutes a civilian, so sorry to sorry to interrupt you jeffrey. i just want to pick up on something

that you were saying that about allowing access for aid. and one of the interesting things that i noticed was that i'm in this case. so in this particular case, by south africa and israel also appoint judges to sit on the quote. so instead of the regular 50 and there were, there was 17 and the, the is really judge voted for 2 of these messages in favor of them to punish incitement to genocide and also an aid access. and, and primarily because israel, by my understanding, is it saying that aid is ready on handed? chris, it is someone who used to work for under uh, let me ask when you make of that a session. well, i think he's absolutely right. so i think it is right as an he's really a highly respected is really does. he was actually in charge of these really supreme court when i was a spokesman for and i went to the supreme court. i was amazed and delighted by how he was trying to professionalize so yeah, so pretty cool. so he's highly respected, but yes, i think like a lot of people in israel,

he's also be disgusted by the fact that the politicians that have made it so easy for the south africans to make their argument about the intentionality. behind the genocide of threats which were very, very clearly put by the south africans. i think also in this question a few minutes here in a it's absolutely the case that it has together. that is a collect to publish modes to, you know, more than houses because the strip of children and even more a women. so, you know, it's, it's, it's something which is a useful. somebody has to step up to see about a turn obligation. but if i may, i looked at the officer pre, if i get this off to have something very quickly when jeffrey talks about the lack of enforceability, i'm the general. what about state policies? what about the of the 150 volts, signatories of convention, surely as we're seeing in america, where in the federal kohls, in california, biden and clinton and all students are being accused both of a complicity in genocide and failing to prevent genocide when it comes to enforcing

what we heard yesterday strongly but judgment. super cool to give us chris to the middle of those people and choose fictions who are trying to hold the state. all teens to account for. failing to implement the genocide convention body of thoughts . i'm not jeffrey my food. so imagine a very clear because i think the court was scrupulous in not finding the but israel had committed genocide. you just simply said, each ease of your and the cheek g e pointed out, or the kind of statements that so the president and the defense minister had been say about how does the news be animals who should be put to issues books, the kind of genocide to intent the shoe box

. in fact, there is another method traditional and this really is not competing goodness because easy is as seeking to wipe out a mass which is a problem is equal organize ation. and so you choose to use the eighty's in effect. committing a list of side if you like that, but not just because he's acting out of attacking the same thing. so these are all the land line is rose, right? this, let me jump in that jeffrey because a lot of these discussions going to happen as we look at that, the broad a case, the genocide case which could take is as, as we've seen. i want to bring an image here because i could see your new met shaking your head as chris was speaking. and i also have a subsequent come to

a subsequent question within your conversation gentlemen, which was around this question of intense. and we have had a lot of the statements from very senior government officials and one of the requirements of the ruling from the i, c, j was to punish the incitement to genocide. and what am i talking about politicians who perhaps have have some level of immunity. i'm curious about how that's supposed to take place as well. no, let me bring you in or yeah, other kind of mind, the disagreement with chris was the respect to the description of that. i'll say, uh, hold on, but so i and i thought it seemed it gets cold. others have actually since 2007 been writing about the ways in which i don't, but i need you to memorize the occupation of that pit. and we call him to, to a deputy my judge because his liberal and rhetoric is human rights in the image of the active as judge image actually was used by his writing, including that and so on into this on the floor to whitewash is right across and

under his leadership of the supreme court and his way to the apartheid system as a consolidated legal commission became much more brutal when he was pointed to the as an adult, the judge and the address, the cause of justice is on the media said, okay, now this is the time to examine what i don't, but it has been thing that thing done for decades that just show review, expands and insight as well. we protect is right and is very sore just from persecution on the world stage. and that the high court would be a sheet and forward as well, on the international level. and indeed in his uh, the elect, separate support for the investigative justice. he checks the genocide accusation here to jack's needs that there is a genocide. it just hasn't been done. and he said, is that he agreed with these 2 measures because he thinks or is right was already

complying with these. i didn't need his impulse shut up. the was the question, because in november he gave a statement to the globe and mail the canadian newspaper, in which he said that he thinks is why it has to be in compliance with him. but i showed him as a law, so he is a biased judge. that was appointed by his leg specifically for. busy or a symbolic value, unable to provide the account to another. now, with respect to your question, the eh legation this way, is that to be, have to punish for these statements of incitement to a genocide of the dog is the problem is that the, this statement had been sort permanent. so the domain on, for 3 months inside this wire that it's demanding can be separated from the actual state policy. because why that is and for 3 months not do anything about these statements, even though they wear daily on t. v by senior officials,

by members of places by army generals, etc. and now they stand accused that's eh, by seated by fanning disjointed or big issues on the original it just as convention because it did not prevent these statements. they did not finish the statement and the only attempt to do anything about these statements was after south africa submitted an application. indeed, this shows the importance of the south africa, an application again, and it's, and as chris is pointing out, that has changed the narrative. and this routing certainly has changed the narrative within the context of this new narrative that we're talking about. i want to ask you, jeffrey, i'll go too fast about the trade treaty because i was looking at the phrasing and it prohibits parties from um, transfers, if they have knowledge of the time of authorization to be on, well items. would it be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, great breaches of geneva conventions attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such or other war crimes. so what is now at stake here when

we, when we're using the phrase genocide and the genocide convention, what's at stake here for country is like canada, the u. k. and, and crucially the united states. and i'm glad you picked up on that because that jesus cause one of the great question. and there are already protest south side main factor, easy to supply. and as for trends, mission to issue and then for use, it may be in non genocide or context, for example, providing the file hybrids and, and meetings of peacefully low numberless forcefully stopping protest. there's always being a question about that. but if you can identify

a shipment of all sleep, cuz to really get into a different form for use as bomb said, quest or bombing, or whatever, being discriminated for meeting which can be this is by kidding civilians who all most ha, uh, children, under the age of 18, and this is one of the red line cities route has reached the, the killing children. and then eat can be, i think the decision can be prey dna for injunction, short by the pro listing in groups will be grouped in version and canada. but again, there are limits because these judgment does not say and he's very

careful not to convince is way over all the genocide it should be says there is a the minutes to be made. and so it may take a year or 2 to come up, the evaluation of it and say, mean gathered to the next. i want to ask about a little more about enforcement because one possible route that's been suggested is the united nations security council. the meeting again on wednesday to discuss garza obviously, up until now the us has vetoed multiple resolutions trying to stop the pricing of the security council. now that we have this ruling, if there is a resolution that that's proposed at the security council, as there is seemingly likely to be in line with the measures that have been described by the i c j and it's ruling doesn't then put a huge amounts of pressure on washington, not to v to because essentially and then let me put this,

this question to you. chris, essentially a veto would be a vote against what the u. s. has always been a proponent of a rules based international. yeah, absolutely. i think that's will, is one of the things that so clever about what the court has done because it's judgements a cool, it's almost a 100 percent with american policy tools. israel, it's not. the mom did a 65. i'll do that. it's a de facto see spot and the cool to say it's well has to abide by and then the judge laid out the whole series of stipulations which ends we blinking himself in its calling agrees with. so i think it's going to be very, very difficult for the american southern find will come and it's huge pressure it to make sure that original a visa and the other. why the question i think is us so much of the other conflagrations in the middle east. for example, the who these are folding off the is really electric genocide against garza. and as the cools, especially, i think that the americans will also be aware that if it does veto this, then be,

and that's fueling this why the conflagration in the middle east will become the protocol. does very quickly say that the points i was making about the rock is that we've been israel itself, cheese with this. and the fact that she is basically the crime. he's both behind publishing nets and yahoo makes it very, very difficult. i think politically, it's a real problem for that to be. i wasn't suggesting promotions, i know very well with how the students think of that. and i totally agree. i wanted to pick up on, on where we started this discussion, which was how long you mental this, this ruling really is. new met the global south for a long time has felt very marginalized when it comes to international institutions . and the way that the cases, particularly nasa, for instance, have been treated. so let me ask you, does the ruling that we've seen this week? does it, does it change things for south africa? does it, does it restore some face, perhaps in international institutions for not only for africa and for palestine,

but also the broad global? so what says i'm supposed to with the suggestion that the does, it goes on just as routing accords with american foreign policy. i think the, it as a couple of just as routing is in fact, which to shame on where some countries include in the us, who basically went treating the public sort of states. and that all is like, as well as above the international order and all the claims as the off rule is based older. since the beginning of the symptoms, the police had been exposed as hypocritical as selective as basically non existent when the victims are not. why to to be ends or north american? so this, hey elizabeth, so also do a question which is the 1st time in this case. um, this is a situation of genocide and guess is

a little more test for international law. it shows how international law fails to protect it. what is it basically considered as expensive of the population's combat? how difficult it can not a quote compared to how the home wisdom was treated ukrainians, and ukrainian civilians and victims of the indeed how the about double standards. yeah, with how pressing ends up being treated to south africa. making this claim is challenging the international legal system. this done by mr. test for the international legal system. indeed, i'm afraid we'll leave the discussion now for now. it's a, it's obviously a conversation we having again. and we'll be following this case very closely as it continues on its way through the quotes for now there. thank you to or about guess to me, muscle tiny jeffrey robinson. and chris got us and thank you to for watching. remember, you can watch this again. any time by visiting our website on to 0, don't com for further discussion do goes well facebook page,

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