say the challenge the president is going to space is convincing member states to take a unified position with detailed coverage, the native forest. some of the other half of this drive down to the properties, the ones that you see behind me cannot be touched by their owners. from around the world, what you see behind me is the ops really pilots. it personal air vehicles south korea's answer to the air. it's had the, the more than 50 people killed in 5 thing on south sedan border. rebel group is blamed for the attacks and an oil rich area also claimed by so that the hello and welcome to a show. i'm sammy's a that the disputed abbey, a region along the border between them and south sedan is on the co. a few after

tax by a south sudanese rebel group, see more than 50 people were killed in the likes is fine. that's including women, children, and even un peacekeepers. the area has been volatile for many years. within the communal conflicts. i'm competing claims by the neighbors international peace efforts while they've essentially sold since the conflict and so then began last year south. so then gained its independence in 2011, but quickly plunged into war largely between the ethnic think no tribes. a peace deal was reached though in 2018. but well the life is violence depressing death agreement. what's the impact on the people? will get to, i guess, in a moment, but 1st this report by castillo pennsylvania and it's an attack that's highlighting the volatile situation in the border region. it's an area dispute is between south

sedan and sudan. rebel groups when we're rob, state and still sudan had been blamed for the violence which killed more than 50 people, including at least 2 united nations peacekeepers. the secretaries del condemns the violence and attacks against the peacekeeping force and calls on the government of south sudan and sudan to swiftly investigate the attacks with the assistance of the peacekeeping force known as you next fall, and to bring the perpetrators to justice the be a region is rich in oil, it's administered by both student and sales to dad. but for years, disputes about tax revenue and border limits have lots of fighting between rival sections of the thing. got ethnic groups and many fear. the months long conflict in sudan could make things worse. about 7000000 people have been displaced in sudan since april. when fighting broke out between students, army and paramilitary rapid support forces. it's led to

a dire humanitarian crisis, and the country that struggled for years with war and political instability, sudan and south sudan have disagreed on control of, of the ace themselves, sudan gained its independence. the peace still ended decades of civil war between students, north and south. but tensions have lingered, as the security council voted last year to extend the un peacekeeping mission and not be until november of this year. but there's concerned the reason fighting could worse and the situation in a region that's already seen decades of violence cod see a little so the again alj a 0 for insights story as well. come all guess and bring them into the show. we have joining us from jew, but kennedy, my bung go country director for the aid agency. norwegian refugee council,

in south sudan. well, in august with the united kingdom we have douglas johnson, he's a scholar and on sedan and south sedan is served on the i bought a commission and the new york joshua craze research or on sedan and south sedan. he's been in touch with policies to the conflict and that'd be in the past few days . well, welcome to everyone. we can start with joshua. so joshua wants box this round of the conflict. so it was sort of a referendum in 2011 on whether it wants to join south o'donoghue, but it for independence. it didn't get that referendum instead, this means army displaced it to the south of a territory to a place called a golf. and now eventually this with these on the left, you miss for the peacekeeping force came in and walk through the residents of abbey, and not think of managed to come back to the sensor. but they never came to the north of the territory from which they've always been displaced. and it's always been a sydney's army in the north of the territory, despite the commitment of units for understood on the south side on the,

demilitarized the territory. so they faced them attacked from the north, but since 2022, they also face some attack from the cell. so the twitch, which is another thing to group, but live in what uh, which is south. so these presidents dealt with kids home state. i've seen this mock and the bulk, the, grew off, the displacement, the thing, all of those. what came into monetary and hope, the agencies. but what they would like to do is take over it and take control of the tax. is the types themselves a marginalized within the politics of what? so you have a weak marginalized community, the bulk waiting to join sounds to dawn in political suspension now for over a decade. who's being attacked from the south as well as criminal? and really by some ex, suspension. lemme as to their existence when that being attacked also by the people they thought were that brothers in the south saddam, that they want to join. okay, so basically this is a, into communal dispute between different communities about who manages to control

this area. douglas, what is this conflict ultimately over land results is a politics. i'd have to say all 3. 04. no, i don't think go for the bizarre misery about the neighbors to the noise. and for the twitch, my, of these think go to the south. it's very much about land, or the cartoon government, and all successions of the country and government since 2005. it's been about what's underneath to land. it's about the oil. um, within uh, sales. so then it really is about politics. as you uh, joshua said uh to each my update. uh huh. well, the president's over here comes from the teach motor id and he's under a great deal of pressure to favor them. and this is probably one reason why there's

been almost no intervention from the government in juba to try to establish peace in that area between 2 groups of income and between uh, sales to them and us through them. okay, interesting. before we go, you've opened up a lot of details which would like to get into, but before we go, then let me bring in kennedy and ask this question from the humanitarian perspective. what does another layer of conflict in sedan and south sedan mean for the humanitarian situation. that is what is happening? mean that'd be how do i need to what happened in the south that we haven't seen country wait, it is highly shooting. need your call? we are done where 90000000 people are in need or my general assistance with the kind of where 5 point one the inside q while. and so when you go

in and fight the, you find the people how big is the cost of the boat, that between the 8 and so that leaves monthly ends in the box because the middle of the cage does, because what for the exact size, the, the complexity of the area, the police departments has to be on the order. so looking at them and so really it kind of leaves people stop reading wow. need to, you might be the assistance that they're not getting the se in. all right, it's a sad situation. i want to come back to josh and pick up on a point actually that's a moment ago douglas kind of him to that. but let's start looking at it from the perspective of sedan, is the fighting, 1st of all in so that, and the politics going on that is that causing some, the stabilization, the creation of vacuums that is prompting a rise intentions and i'd be a no,

it's not at the moment the mystery air and earlier of a tier is playing a very delicate negotiating game, is the ones paying transit fees to behind the regime. so to sit on forces while allowing the recess, haven't to use rapid support forces to move oil limits. here. i add an fuel through sound saddam but also backing a variety of opposition groups inside cell sit on in the border regions. so for now, the only really stabilization which kind of has been speaking about has been the flows of refugees. however, with our assess the tax on places like that, but news in the, in bozeman potential, at least the last involvement of sales. so these rebel groups in those attacks, there is the capacity for the stabilisation inside. i'd be a because the 1st surrounding the oil side in the notes of app j is to sit on pulses. who are losing the war in south dakota? fine. okay. douglas,

you him to the moment. go at the perhaps can we call it tribal politics? so ethnic politics within south sudan, is that playing a role in limiting what the state can or cannot do to control the situation favoring the twitch over the knock? for example? i think good is a bit more than the, uh, the central government themselves. sudan doesn't seem to have much power in any parts themselves, to down to try to in enforce peace between different groups of people. a just kind of d pointed out, this is a, a wider problem within cells to, to a lighter problem of a conflict and a complex between different groups of people. but the issue of,

let me just just mention this, i mean the some leading politicians from to each land. they were very active in opposing the reward award over the boundaries commission as early as 2005. and they have the their own agenda about the southern border between sit down and sell, sit down, which included the southern border between i'll be in by august. so all right, so the state doesn't have a lot of ability to impose piece. kennedy does south sedan, central government have much capacity to handle a human, an increase in the humanitarian crisis and not be. i think the challenge here really, i just saw that the government will be struggling when it comes to what i saw this

. and when that, no, i didn't finish off as to even if i call the crisis in south of that that anybody might do. what would be the be? so in this is a be a few months later. crises is your crisis, which is not even attention from, from, from, from the government itself. so that'd be above the surface. so the whole point is that really the inside of the community has to move past a b. i'm say the whole situation that i see the big part of we are not possibly just wanting discovery. i mean, all the people i need to be my guess is that in the, in the 2000 ibp the to be willing to fight a starter. and these people that need to support and get the letter is i kind of reaching these people in a be. so it's quite a bit on time. it's also supposed to be too much data bases. they might be douglas

all come back to a point here. how much of a threat then listening to what you said and what kennedy it just said, but how much of a threat is the fighting? and that'd be a threat to the unity of cell. so down at this point, well, uh, just added to all the other threats to the unit, to sell, shoot down. yes i, i think it, it definitely contributes to the, to stabilizing the. ready sell sedans, unity um, the people of, i'll be, i don't know the income, as i have often been accused of going to law. if it was a sympathy from a water populations in this house or down. there have been a number of people for the cells who said, well, we don't really want any more dinner in cell, sit down so we'd rather have, i'd be a stay but as possible, sit down. and i don't know. i don't know enough of the current situation to be able

to say how much they i'll be fighting and that'd be a might spock even greater conflict within the rest of south or dance? but it is certainly an element of the, of the stabilize or on the fact that the refugees crossing the border. there are a, in both directions. and as long as it is part of a of an unstable border and part of a conflict that comes from both north and south, it's going to be as long as the government seems to be unable to deal with it's of course, it is going to add to the stabilisation of the country. when i saying the question then to joshua, cuz i know that you've been in touch with the policies recently. are you afraid that the signs are building up for further escalations? and so it's not just that the government is incapable of stabilizing the border. it's a government interventions actively destabilized communities in south sit on these

interventions and not neutral interventions by government, which somehow mediate between groups, their interventions, which are positive on the part of one group or a notice we've seen a series of peace negotiations. we've seen a series of military interventions, but those minute train dimensions are blocks may be on the side of the twitch think . and the reason for the current protest and the current violence has been the last week south of these presidents silva kia, gave an order to a new, a figure from unit caesar, the newer the 2nd largest ethnic population in south. so then good guy may check to return to my home and leave the twitch and he refused to do so on his back gets his forces, but took part and really attacked the not in the south of the territory, including i'm pushing or attorney convoys coming from bmw them into abbey a. so it has a real potential to spit out over. i'd be into contentions over the control of power, of what up he has home state,

but also of my own one of the most important states for the newer and sounds to them. and if we see that, what does that mean? a well, it is a, this is an election year for solver, of course the, the, after a long extension. finally, december 2024 should be the elections the brings. when in a transitional period, the began when south saddam's civil war ended in 2019 something else was where it is. now, it's a very delicate balancing act for solve it because of a full 5 years has rolled effectively by fragments in the opposition and setting them up against themselves population. and he's supposed to be defending. so rob them as the purchase of centralized fragmentation and which he set suppositions against each other now, so as to bring everyone together in the process of franklin fragments of centralization and said, i'll bring everyone back into this. come so we can prevent the unified policy to stand the elections, and that's

a very delicate balancing act. when he spent 5 years, really setting communities against each other and just be the can easily spillover and become more generalized, regional, complex kind of thing with this kind of fragmentation, conflict and lack of resolution to issues. can the regions, humanitarian situation ever really be stabilized? i think the biggest place on the find the solution it tough pertaining sharp to really call this region. no doubt i'd be, i'd say just because when it comes with distributed, what do we see too much in people to sleep across the board as the whole people? hopefully the rate of the countries. um, this is quite serious. i mean for me might be one of the, is the heart issue all the silence on property. you not be and i see why it is you might say that the price i see is that pretty typical commission. and

this is something which needs to be discussed. we definitely see the money in government has to be on the table. so that'll be fine. and a solution that has been addressed the you, montana tracy's, indeed a be a sort of outsourced efforts to resolve the border issues that you, douglas, you will you actually says on the i bought a commission. why is this what's holding up a resolution? is it the fighting that broke out in sudan between the r a stuff in the army? so what's holding up the resolution is that no government didn't call to launch to apply either of the boundary conditions record, or the hague ruling. oh, which reduce the area of the, of, of the a to basically the the, the home territories and not think of as long as the government didn't come to

refuse to do more. okay. the border refused to allow a referendum. so there is no possibility of resolving that issue. and now that the government itself is not in, in the government in khartoum, is incapable of doing anything in the border area. it really relies on sell sudan government to do something which they're not going to do a joshua unresolved conflicts like that. that'd be a corruption on the development political instability. what's the bottom line here for sal sedan? is it failing to in the, just the success story that the west advocated and championed? i think that was a really powerful war economy based on the funds of to south sydney's independence . and that's its own success story for the leads in south saddam. it's not a success story for the population, which is i'm is

a rated and hungry and we shouldn't forget the real travails implying that the not think in all of this stuff cannot be without a political solution. but i don't think this is a failure of the international communities if it's wished. well, i think this is largely created with the acquiescence of the international community. we have to remember that huge amounts of done to funds went into building what was basically a collect a credit state. and we have to remember that in app. yeah. we've had a peacekeeping force units for that, which has since its inception, over a decade ago, failed to remove the sidney's army from the north of the turret stream. so and you know, the entire cup, the credit system is enabled by commodity brokers by the logics of global finance i . it's to sort of, i think basically neo colonial to say, oh, we gave these people to stay in and we, sorry they failed. but the failure is a bit stayed a very much the winter months of the international system,

but care and the coach area of confidence around to move. absolutely explicitly exploit to. that is a good point before i do want to take a bit deeper into it. but let me bring kennedy back and ask this question one of the, the, the obligations within the mandates of eunice. so it was supposed to be to protect civilians to help with the distribution of humanitarian aid. all the doing in off of that to do humanitarian aid workers feels safe unit kennedy. i will say no, i mean because what is coming to you? money in response needs coordination. not the entity really responded to the side kind of a crisis. and so we have the protocol condition which comes in that sort of file to the. 3 too much in prices, and as i mentioned the idea, i think that the big challenge here is that the,

the dispute of step uh about the inside of the body. after that you might get an excess. so even if you're just for given the, i think the funding to know to 1000000000, but they do my job as well, which i think is very important now. and that's where they need to look at any of the, the fuck you might get a response to that, that people, i need. all right, douglas, going back to the point which joshua mentioned that this is a failure, basically with the questions of the international community. is that because there's too many global pals in looking at it through the prism of their own interests rather than the big picture of what 2 of the interest of the people that are in other words, a bit of a power struggle going on. i don't know that that's a problem. i mean the, the 3 countries that have been most involved in,

via the so called troy club of the united kingdom, united states, and nowhere. those were the ones who were very much involved in setting up the negotiations and financing the negotiations that lead to the comprehensive piece agreement to and they have different interest to take care of right now. i mean, tries to get anybody's attention on what's happening in the sudan moves out of attention away from gauze. um ukraine. good luck on that. and the going from sure down to south. sure. down and even then it was focusing on be a, it's going to be very difficult to get a focus, an international consensus. and in fact, in the lead up to the referendum on independence referenda most of sales have done . the us government basically jettisoned any interest in be claiming that it would be, it would be a wrong to the international community is not really going to take much interest in

how be a it, it still doesn't take it. i mean, it didn't take interest in the va and of course, you and peacekeeping forces are very difficult to organize. why does the central command authority do they have a few years ago? the u. n. force that was supposed to be protecting the paramount chief of the don't think of the, the kind of kind of them convoy was attacked by the mysteria misery. i managed to kill the paramount chief, the new and force that was there to protect him, shut off at the mysteria now, and then the mystery of them demanded compensation for the people that the un killed. so there is really very little legal force behind the, the u. n. force in the unit in the be a, uh, there's really very little that they can do because they really don't have the authority to disarm the shoots back on all protect,

uh, the people that the sent to protect. that's an interesting point. joshua, it was revolted, that sounds like. busy was seeking a meeting with us president, and when that didn't find the spot was rolling, they went to meet with the russian president. how much global interest in john king is that going on? i mean, i around the ab j not a tool. that's not really a question that the fundamental political impass of abby is because those solve a key has spent 20 years fighting against costume and against. but she is regime since south sydney's independence as being a realignment. that seems so get much closer best, but she has government and then to but homes, government. and for those 2 governments, it's politically expedient for them to not result the crisis in ab yet. because to say to not result, that means that, but how can continue to try to keep the mysteria on the side. and the mystery is

political constituency has been contested with the are assess and for self a kia, it means they can continue to claim to be in favor of the not. and i'd be rejoining sounds to don what also keeping what past or not quotations out of the government and not having to deal with them within his coalition. that's really the question. the question is about sydney's themselves. sydney's power politics. as douglas johnson. right. you said the question of the regions in russia in terms of sounds to don, especially in terms of abby isn't really a factoring what's going on at the moment or i will leave for the discussion that let's thing call guess very much for joining us. kennedy, my bunco douglas johnson and joshua cries, can get a and thank you for watching and can see the show again any time by visiting our website. i'll just say we're don't com for further discussion. go over the facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. also joining the conversation on x, our hands of batteries that

a j inside story. from the sammy's i that on the entire team here for now. goodbye . in official reports of the deadly rate police indicated that they believed the protesters in the forest were dangerous and often referred to them as domestic terrorist. that's why i took you to was murdered because i believe that the police thought that they were being faced with dangerous criminals. and i think that they were hyped up to be ready to go. sarah was charged that day with domestic terrorism under georgia state law. a conviction because mean decades in prison, that wouldn't burn my life just because i was sleeping in the woods in a human. and like i have faith that that won't happen. but it could

and that's very scary. the cloud of nuclear, luminous, advising colored tract, the apocalypse, maybe discovers the impact nuclear weapons have funds to vanity our failure to keep humanity safe is by sitting down to the individual on the street. this is not to drill on out your 0 the the,

[000:00:00;00] the down or a kyle, this is the news, our life from doha. coming up in the next 60 minutes. a proposal for another c spot in gaza. how much is politically to says he'll travel to kyra for further discussions as one of the special forces dressed as dumped as a nurse. his intro hospitality occupied westbank killing sweet palestinians. present bite and says he's decided how to respond to a drains from the co 3 american troops in georgia, but doesn't want