who stays on the red sea this from think global trade cut that push out the prices and fuel inflation. effort goes, mounting debt is crippling the confidence development. plus we looked at how sleep has turned into a multi $1000000000.00 business, counting the cost on, i'll just say around the the more than $50.00 people killed in 5 thing on south sedans. folder level group is blamed for the attacks and an oil rich area. also claimed by so that was the, the violence way, is it leading? this is inside story. the

hello and welcome to the show. i'm sam is a that the disputed abbey. a region along the border between them and south sedan is on the co. a few. after tax by a south sudanese rebel group, see more than 50 people were killed in the likes, his violence, including women, children, and even un peacekeepers. the area has been volatile for many years. within the communal conflicts. i'm competing claims by the neighbors international peace efforts while they've essentially sold since the conflict and so then began last year south. so then gained its independence in 2011, but quickly plunged into war logs. v between the ethnic didn't know of tribes. a peace deal was reached out in 2018. but well, the life is violence flattened the death agreement. what's the impact on the people? we'll get to our guests in a moment, but 1st this report by castillo pennsylvania,

and it's an attack that's highlighting the volatile situation in the a, b, a border region. it's an area of disputed between south sudan and sudan. rebel groups where rob state and south sudan had been blamed for the violence which killed more than 50 people, including at least 2 united nations peacekeepers. the secretaries don't condemns the violence and the tax against the peacekeeping force and calls on the government of south sudan and sudan to swiftly investigate the attacks with the assistance of the peacekeeping force known as unicell, and to bring the perpetrators to justice the be a region is rich in oil, it's administered by both student and cell. so dad. but for years, disputes about tax revenue and border limits have lots of fighting between rival sections of the thing. got ethnic groups and many fear. the months long conflict in sudan could make things worse. about

7000000 people have been displaced in sudan since april. when fighting broke out between students, army and paramilitary rapid support forces. it's led to a dire humanitarian crisis, and the country that struggled for years with war and political instability, sudan and south sudan have disagreed on control of, of the ace themselves, sudan gained its independence. the peace still ended decades of civil war between students, north and south. but tensions have lingered, as the security council voted last year to extend the un peacekeeping mission and not be until november of this year. but there is concern the reason fighting could worse in the situation in a region that's already seen decades of violence. katia little so the again alj a 0 for insights story

as well. come all guess and bring them into the show. we have joining us from jew, but kennedy, my bung go country director for the aid agency. norwegian refugee council in south sedan. well, in august with the united kingdom, we have douglas johnson, he's a scholar and on sedan and south savannah. so if somebody i'd be able to commission and the new york joshua craze research or on savannah themselves so that he's been in touch with policies to the conflict and not being in the past few days. well, welcome to everyone. we can start with joshua. so joshua wants box this round of the conflict. so it was sort of a referendum in 2011 on whether it wanted to join south o'donoghue, but it for independence. it didn't get that referendum instead, this means army displaced it to the south of the territory to a place called to gawk. and now eventually this with these on the left you miss for the peace keeping force came in and walk with the residence of abbey, and not think of managed to come back to the center. but they never came to the

north of the territory from which they've always been displaced. and it's always been a sydney's army in the north of the territory, despite the commitment of units for understood on the south. so don't demilitarized the territory. so they faced them attacked from the north, but since 2022, they've also face some attack from the cell. so the twitch, which is another thing to group, but live in what uh, which is south. so these presidents dealt with kids home state. i've seen this mock and the bulk, the, grew off, the displacement, the thing, all of those look into your mind. it's area to help the agencies. but what they would like to do is take over it and take control of the taxes, the types themselves, a marginalized within the politics of what. so you have a weak marginalized community, the bulk waiting to join sounds to dawn in political suspension now for over a decade. who's being attacked from the south as well as criminal, and really by some extra spent to dilemma as to their existence when that being attacked also by the people they thought were that brothers in the south saddam,

that they want to join. okay, so basically this is a, into communal dispute between different communities about who manages to control this area. douglas, what is this conflict ultimately over land results is a politics i'd have to say, 03. 04. no, no. think go for the bizarre misery about the neighbors to the noise. and for the twitch, my, on these think go to the cell. it's very much about land, or the cartoon government, and all the successions of the country and government since 2005. it's been about what's underneath to land, it's about the oil just uh um, within uh, ssl. so then it really is about politics. as you uh, joshua said uh to each my update. uh um, well,

the president's over here comes from the teach my id and he's under a great deal of pressure to favor them. and this is probably one reason why this has been almost no intervention from the government in juba to try to establish peace in that area between the 2 groups of income and between uh, sales to them and uh to them. okay, interesting. before we go, you've opened up a lot of details which would like to get into, but before we go there, let me bring in canada and ask this question from the humanitarian perspective. what does another layer of conflict in sedan and south sedan mean for the humanitarian situation that a thank you very much. don't have to be in the context to be file when it comes to humanitarian crises. what is happening?

mean that'd be how i need to what happened in the south that we are seeing kind of 2 ways. it is highly shooting. need your call. we are, things are done where 90000000 people are in need or my general assistance with the kind of where 5 point one leader to be bought into the q while. and so when you go to intentional on friday, you'll find the people i think is clear to go to the board that between the 8 and so that leaves new materials in the box because middle of every may does because what are the exact size the, the complexity of the area, police departments, as dvd, i'm also looking at them. and so really, it kind of leaves people that probably need to, you might get assistance at the beginning, the se, in all right,

so sad situation. i want to come back to joshua and pick up on a point actually that a moment ago, douglas kind of into that. but let's start looking at it from the perspective of sedan, is the fighting, 1st of all, in sudan, and the politics going on that is that causing some destabilize ation. the creation of vacuums. that is prompting a rise intentions. and i'd be a, you know, it's not at the moment the mystery aaron, early a tax on that be a where at least working to find so in alliance with some of the twitch militias, but not really rebel groups that malicious. but at the moment, south of me as president, solver tier is playing a very delicate negotiating game, is the ones paying transit fees to behind the regime. so to sit on forces while allowing the recess, haven't to use rapid support forces to move oil limits here. i add an fuel through sound saddam, but also backing a variety of opposition groups inside sounds so done in the border regions. so for

now the only rio de stabilization which kind of he's been speaking about has been the flows of refugees. however, with our assess attacks on places like that, but news in the, in bozeman potential, at least at least involvement of sound. so these rebel groups in those attacks, there is the capacity for the stabilization inside. i'd be a because the forced surrounding the oil side and the north of update is to sit on forces who are losing the war in south coast time. okay, douglas, you him to the moment go at the perhaps can we call it tribal politics? so ethnic politics within south sudan, is that playing a role in limiting what the state can or cannot do to control the situation favoring the twitch of the knock? for example? i think good is some a bit more than the, uh, the central government themselves too down doesn't seem to have much power in any

parts of sales who down to try to in enforce peace between different groups of people. a just kind of d pointed out, this is a, a wider problem within cells to, to a lighter problem of a conflict and a complex between different groups of people. but so the, i'll be a issue. um, let me just just mention this. i mean the some leading politicians from to each land they were very active in opposing the reward award over the boundaries commission as early as 2005. and they had their, their own agenda about the southern border between uh, sedan and sell. so down which included the southern border between i'll be

a and by august. so all right, so the state doesn't have a lot of ability to impose piece. kennedy does south sedan, central government have much capacity to handle a human, an increase in the humanitarian crisis. and not be clearly shown here, really, i just saw the government be struggling when it comes to the office. and when there's no such as to even cost. uh, the price is based off of that. then you might imagine what would be the be. so you the a, be a few months here. prices is your crisis, which is not even attention from, from, from, from the government so, so that'd be above the surface. so the whole point is that the really, the inside of the community has to move past a b, i'm taking the whole situation

a bit to see that. i think we talked about possibly just wanting discovery. i mean, all the people i need to be my guess is that in the, in the 2000 ibp will just be the last to be when the fighting started. and these people that need of support and the letter is i go to reaching these people in a be so it's quite up because of the supposed to be too much data bases a not be does this all come back to a point here? how much of a threat then listening to what you said and what kennedy it just said that how much of a threat is a fighting and not be a threat to the unity of cell. so down at this point, well, uh, just added to all the other threats to the unit, to sell, shoot down. yes i, i think it, it definitely contributes to the, the stabilizing the. ready sell sedans, unity um, the people of, i'll be,

i don't know the income as i have often been accused of, of, well sir, have been the complaints against individual politicians from the north think from other people in south so down so that no, i think i haven't always a go into a lot of the sympathy from um, uh, water populations in this house or down there have been a number of people for the cells who said, well, we don't really want any more data in south. sure down. so we'd rather have of use day, but as part of sue them, um, i don't know, i don't know enough of the current situation to be able to say how much they i'll be fighting and that'd be a might spock even greater conflict within the rest of south or dance, but it is certainly an element of the, of the state belie. i'm the fact that the refugees crossing the border there are um,

in both directions. and as long as it is part of a of an unstable border and part of a conflict that comes from both north and south, it's going to be as long as the government seems to be unable to deal with it's of course, it is going to add to the d, stabilisation of the country. when i saying the question then to joshua, cuz i know that you've been in touch with the policies recently. are you afraid that the science i'll build out for further escalations? and so it's not just that the government is incapable of stabilizing the border. it's a government interventions actively the stabilize communities in south sit on these interventions are not mutual interventions by government, which somehow mediates between groups their interventions, which have pauses on the part of one group or a notice we've seen a series of peace negotiations. we've seen a series of military interventions, but those minute trend dimensions have locks me being on the side of the twitch

think. and the reason for the current protest and the current violence has been the last week south, and he's president, solver kia, gave an order to a new, a figure from units. he's the new or the 2nd largest ethnic population in south. so then good guy may check to return to my home and leave the twitch and he refused to do so. and his back gets his forces but took part and really attacked the knock in the south of the territory, including i'm pushing or attorney convoys coming from bmw them into abbey a. so it has a real potential just spit out over. i'd be into contentions over the control of power, of what up he has home state, but also of my own one of the most important states for the newer and sounds to them. and if we see that, what does that mean? a well, it is a, this is an election year for solver of cost that the after a long extension. finally, december 2024 should be the elections the brings. one end of the transitional

period. the began when south saddam's civil war ended in 2019. something else is where it is now. it's a very delicate balancing act for solve it because solve a full 5 years has rolled effectively by fragments in the opposition and setting them up against themselves. he did it this year in react, michelle, who is the lead with the opposition hometown of lab. and he use one of let one of our mission mission mission was commanded to attack the very population and he's supposed to be defending. so robin, this process of centralized fragmentation in which he set suppositions against each other now so as to bring everyone together in the process of franklin, fragments of centralization and said, i'll bring everyone back into this. come so we can prevent a unified policy to stand to the elections, and that's a very delicate balancing act. when he spent 5 years, really setting communities against each other in disputes, the can easily spillover and become more generalized regional complex. kennedy with

this kind of fragmentation, conflict and lack of resolution to issues, can the regions humanitarian situation ever really be stabilized? i think the best place on the find the solution it tough pertaining sharp to a really call this region. no doubt i'd be, i'd say just because when it comes with distributed, what do we see too much in people to sleep across the board as the whole people? hopefully the rate of the countries. um, this is quite serious. i mean, for me might be one of the, is the heart issue all the silence on property. you not be and i see why that is, you might say that the price i see is that people commission and this is something which needs to be discussed. we definitely see the money in government has to be on the table. so we finding a solution that has been addressed the you, montana,

tracy, indeed a be a sort of outsourced efforts to resolve the border issues that you, douglas, you will you actually says on the i bought a commission. why is this, what's holding up? a resolution, is it the fighting that broke out in sudan between the r a stuff in the army? so what's holding up the resolution is that no government didn't call too much to apply either of the boundary conditions record, or the hague ruling. oh, which reduce the area of the, of, of the a to basically the the, the home territories and don't think of as long as the government didn't come to refuse to do more. okay. the border refused to allow a referendum. so there is no possibility of resolving that issue. and now that the

government itself is not in, in the government in khartoum, is incapable of doing anything in the border area. it really relies on sell sudan government to do something which they're not going to do a joshua unresolved conflicts like that. that'd be a corruption on the development political instability. what's the bottom line here for south sedan? is it failing to him? uh, just the success story that the west advocate have been championed. i think the there was a really powerful war economy based on the exploitation of foreign associates, humanitarian aid in guns during the 2nd civil war, and sit on the became a very powerful type talk received by some expectation of all reserves. and during the funds of the south of news independence and that's its own success story for the leader in south saddam. it's not a success story for the population which is amazing,

rated and hungry. and we shouldn't forget the real travails implying. but the not think in all of this stuff cannot be without a political solution, but i don't think this is a failure of the international communities if it's wished. well, i think this is largely created with the acquiescence of the international community. we have to remember that huge amounts of done to funds went into building what was basically a collect a credit state. and we have to remember that an app. yeah, we've had a peacekeeping force units for that, which has since its inception, over a decade ago, failed to remove the sidney's army from the north of the turret street. so and you know, the entire cup, the credit system is enabled by commodity brokers by the logics of global finance. it's to sort of, i think basically neo colonial to say, oh, we gave these people to stay and we, sorry they failed. but the failures of this state are very much the limits of the

international system, but care and the culture you have confidence around to move. absolutely explicitly exploit to. that is a good point before i do want to take a bit deeper into it. but let me bring kennedy back and ask this question one of the, the, the obligations within the mandate of eunice, so was supposed to be to protect civilians to help with the distribution of humanitarian aid. all the doing in off of that do humanitarian aid work cuz feels safe unit kennedy. i would say no, i mean because what it's coming to you might say the response needs according nation, not the entity kind of really responding to size kind of priorities. and so we have the protocol condition, which comes in that sort of file to the too much and prices. and as i mentioned the idea, i think that the big challenge here is that the dispute of step uh about be in.

it's a bad idea that you might get access to a menu or given the i've seen the funding to know the who much on this phone, which i think is very important now. and that's where this need to be early on the, the 4 q my kiddos wants to have the people i need. all right, douglas, going back to the point, which joshua mentioned that this is a failure, basically with the questions of the international community. is that because there's too many global pals in looking at it through the prism of their own interests rather than the big picture of what 2 of the interest of the people that are in other words, a bit of a power struggle going on. i don't know that that's a problem. i mean the, the 3 countries that have been most involved in the so called troy

of the united kingdom, united states, and nowhere. those were the ones who were very much involved in setting up the negotiations and financing the negotiations that lead to the comprehensive piece agreement to and they have different interest to take care of right now. i mean, trying to get anybody's attention on what's happening in the sudan moves out of attention away from gauze. um ukraine. good luck on that. and the going from sure down to south. sure. down and even then it was focusing on be a, it's going to be very difficult to get a focus, an international consensus. and in fact, in the lead up to the referendum on independence referendum, most of sales to them of the u. s. government basically jettisoned any interest in be claiming that it would be, it would be a wrong to hold up the independence of sales to them to be able to resolve the

issue of i be a john carrier, the secretary of state made that quite clear. so the international community is not really going to take much interest in how be a it, it still doesn't take it. i mean, it didn't take interest in the va. and of course, you and peacekeeping forces are very difficult to organize. why does the central command authority do they have a few years ago? the u. n. force that was supposed to be protecting the paramount chief of the don't think of. so the, the kind of care of the convoy was attacked by the mysterious misery i managed to kill the paramount chief, the un force that was uh, to protect him, shut off at the mysteria and now and then the mystery of them demanded compensation for the people that the un killed. so there, there is really very little legal force behind the,

the u. n. force in the unit in i'd be a, uh, there's really, very little that they can do because i really don't have the authority to disarm of shoes back on all protect, uh, the people with this and to protect. that's an interesting point. joshua, it was revolted, that sounds like. busy was seeking a meeting with the us president when that didn't trun spot was really the went to meet with the russian president. how much global interest in john king is that going on? i mean, i around ab j not a tool. that's not really a question that the fundamental political impass of abby is because those over to you spent 20 years fighting against costume and against. but she has regime since south sydney's independence as being a realignment that scene solver get much closer. first of all, she has government and then to but homes, government. and for those 2 governments,

it's politically expedient for them to not result the crisis in abbey. because to say to not result that means that but han and continue to try to keep the mystery on the side. and the mystery is political constituency has been contested with the, our staff and for self care. it means they can continue to claim to be in favor of the golf and i'd be rejoining sounds to don what also keeping what past or not quotations out of the government and not having to deal with them within his coalition. that's really the question. the question is about sidney's and south sydney's power politics. as douglas johnson, right. you said the question of regions in russia in terms of sales to don, especially in terms of abbey, isn't really a factory and what's going on at the moment or i will leave for the discussion that let's thing call guess very much for joining us. kennedy, my bung. busy douglas johnson and joshua cries, jingle, and thank you for watching. you can see the show again, any time by visiting our website. i'll just 0. don't com for further discussion,

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business like just is free to you believe, i guess there's an ice fly on one of your just makes modern pleads the, the, the found terry johnston. this is a new life coming up the next 60 minutes. israel hundreds over the bodies of 80 palestinians who have been taken from guns and held in israel a message politically the says the priorities to stop the roots of aggression against gauze as he reviews and use the spots proposal. rocky group contains it has for the says it's suspending. attacks on us troops. days off to the kidding of 3

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