the torture, full types of georgia, it was unbelievable that they would visit us with the bucks of their guns on our heads. 5 soldiers speeding, poor preventive, occupied and imprisoned out is there more than 50 people killed in 5 thing on south sedans. border rabble group is blaine for the attacks and an oil rich area also claimed by so that. so was the, the violence way, is it leading face is inside story, the hello and welcome to a show i am, sam is a, than the disputed abbey, a region along the border between them and south sedan is on the co

a few after tax by a south sudanese rebel group, see more than 50 people were killed in the likes, whose fine that's including women, children, and even un peacekeepers. the area has been volatile for many years. within the communal conflicts, i'm competing claims by the neighbors. international piece as. busy well, they've essentially stalled since the conflict and so then began last year south, so then gained its independence in 2011, but quickly plunged into war logs v between the ethnic didn't know of tribes. a peace deal was reached though in 2018. but well, the life is violence, depressing death agreement. what's the impact on the people will get to, i guess, in a moment, but 1st, this report like catalog has already on it's an attack that's highlighting the volatile situation in the a, b, a border region. it's an area dispute between south sedan and sudan,

revel groups or more rock state, and still sudan had been blamed for the violence which killed more than 50 people, including at least 2 united nations peacekeepers. the secretaries del condemns the violence and attacks against the peacekeeping force and calls on the government of south sudan and sudan to swiftly investigate the attacks with the assistance of the peacekeeping. force known as eunice file and to bring the perpetrators to justice. the be a region is rich in oil. it's administered by both student and sales to dad. but for years, disputes about tax revenue and border limits have lots of fighting between rival factions of the thing. got ethnic groups and many fear. the months long conflict in sudan could make things worse. about 7000000 people have been displaced in sudan since april, when fighting broke out between students,

army and paramilitary rapid support forces. it's led to a dire humanitarian crisis. and the country that struggled for years with war and political instability, sudan and south sudan have disagreed on control of, of the ace themselves, sudan gained its independence. the peace still ended decades of civil war between students, north and south. the tensions have lingered of the security council voted last year to extend the un peacekeeping mission and not be until november of this year. but there is concern the reason fighting could worse and the situation in a region that's already seen decades of violence. patsy a little so the again, alj a 0 for insights story as well. come all guess and bring them into the show we have joining us from jew, but kennedy, my bung go country director for the aid agency. norwegian refugee council in south

sudan. well, in august with the united kingdom, we have douglas johnson, he's a scholar and on sedan and south sedan is served on the i be able to commission and the new york joshua craze research or on savannah themselves. so that he's been in touch with policies to the conflict and not being in the past few days. well, welcome to everyone. we can start with joshua. so joshua wants box this round of the conflict. so it was sort of a referendum in 2011 on whether it wants to join south saddam have voted for independence. it didn't get that referendum instead, this means army displaced it to the south of a territory to a place called a golf. and now eventually disappears on the left. you miss for the peace keeping force came in and walk with the residence of abbey and not think of managed to come back to the center. but they never came to the north of the territory from which they've always been displaced. and it's always been a sydney's army in the north of the territory, despite the commitment of unit and of sit on the south it onto the demilitarized

the territory. so they faced them attacked from the north, but since 2022, they've also face some attack from the south. so the twitch, which is another thing to group that live in what uh, which is south should be present. so the key is home state. i've seen this mock and the bulk broke off the displacement, the thing off and was also looking at your monetary to help the agencies. but what they would like to do is take over it and take control of the taxes, the types themselves. a marginalized within the politics of what? so you have a weak marginalized community. the not waiting to join sounds to dawn in political suspension now for over a decade. who's being attacked from the south as well as criminal, and really by some extra spent to dilemma as to their existence when they're being attacked. also by the people of a store where the brothers in the south saddam, that they want to join. okay, so basically this is a, into communal dispute between different communities about who manages to control

this area. douglas, what is this conflict ultimately over land results is a politics. i'd have to say all 3. 04. don't think go for the bizarre missile, read about the neighbors to the noise, and for the twitch, my, and these think go to the so it's very much about love for the cartoon government and all the succession. so the content of government since 2005 it's been about what's underneath to land, it's about the oil just uh, um, within uh, ssl. so then it really is about politics. as you uh, joshua said uh to each my a deed. uh huh. well, the president, so look here comes from the to each my id and he's under a great deal of pressure to favor them. and this is probably one reason why there's

been almost no intervention from the government in juba to try to establish peace in that area. between the 2 groups of income and between uh, sales to them and uh through them. okay, interesting. before we go, you've opened up a lot of details which would like to get into what before we go, then let me bring in canada and ask this question from the humanitarian perspective . what is another layer of conflict in sedan and south sedan? mean for the humanitarian situation that a thank you very much. don't have to be in the broader context because when it comes to humanitarian crises, what is happening? mean that'd be how i need to what happened in the south that we are seeing kind of 2 ways. it is highly seated in need. your call. we are being done where 90 meet or

people who need or my general assistance with the kind of where 5 point one leader people i've heard of units like you are. and so when you go in and fight the, you'll find the people i think it's clear to go to the point that between the and so that leaves new materials in the box. because middle of the case does, because what are the exact size, the, the complexity of the area, the police appliances tv. i'm also looking at them and so really, it kind of leaves people that probably need to you might be the assistance that they're not getting the se in oh, it's a sad situation. i want to come back to josh and pick up on a point actually that a moment ago, douglas kind of into that. but let's start looking at it from the perspective of

sedan, is the fighting, 1st of all in so that, and the politics going on that is that causing some, the stabilization, the creation of vacuums, that is prompting a rise intentions. and i'd be a, i know it's not at the moment the mystery air in earlier tax on that be a where at least working to find so in alliance with some of the twitch militias. but not really rebel groups that malicious. but at the moment, south of me is president, solver tier is playing a very delicate negotiating game, is the ones paying transit fees to, but hundreds regimes, so to sit on them forces while allowing the recess. haven't to use rapid support forces to move oil images here. i add an fuel through sound saddam but also backing a variety of opposition groups inside south sit on in the border regions. so for now, the only really stabilization, which kind of he's been speaking about has been the flows of refugees. however, with our assess attacks on places like that. but news in the, in bozeman potential,

at least at least involvement of sound. so these rebel groups in those attacks, there is the capacity for the stabilization inside of the gate because the forced surrounding the oil site in the north of abbey a is to sit on forces who are losing the war in south coast time. okay, douglas, you hand to the moment, go at the perhaps can we call it tribal politics? so ethic politics within south sudan, is that playing a role in limiting what the state can or cannot do to control the situation favoring the twitch of the knock? for example? i think that is a bit more than the uh, the central government themselves too down doesn't seem to have much power in any parts of sales who down to try to in enforce peace between different groups of people. as kind of deep pointed out, this is a,

a why they have problem within cells to, to a wider problem of conflict and conflicts between different groups of people. but so the, i'll be a issue of, let me just, i just mentioned this. i mean the some leading politicians from to each land they were very active in opposing the reward award over the boundaries commission as early as 2005. and they have the their own agenda about the southern border between sit down and sell, sit down, which included the southern border between i'll be in by august. so all right, so the state doesn't have a lot of ability to impose peace. kennedy,

those south sedan, central government have much capacity to handle a human, an increase in the humanitarian crisis and not be clearly shuddered. yeah. really. i just saw the government be struggling when it comes to what i saw this. and when there's no such as to event, it's a cost uh, the crisis can solve for that. then you might imagine, what would be the be say next, if it is a be a few months later, prices is your crisis, which is not even attention from, from, from, from the government. so, so that'd be part of the responses. so the whole point is that the really, the inside of the community has to move past a b, i'm say, the hardest attrition that i see that i think we are not possibly just wanting discovery. i mean, all the people i need to be my guess is that in the,

in the 2000 ibp, the, to the, when the fighting started. and these people that need to support and get the letter is i go to receive these people in a be so it's quite up because on the portal to be too much, the price is a not be douglas. all come back to a point here. how much of a threat then listening to what you said and what kennedy it just said, but how much of a threat is the fighting and not be a threat to the unity of cell? so down at this point, well, uh, just added to all the other threats to the, you know, to say, oh, shoot. uh yes, uh i, i think it, uh, it definitely contributes to, uh, the, the stabilizing, the sell sedans, unity um, the people of, i'll be, i don't know, the income, as i have often been accused of, of, well sir,

have been complaints against individual politicians from the don't think of from other people in sales sit down so that not think i haven't always a go into a lot of the sympathy from water populations in this house or down there have been a number of people for the cells who said, well, we don't really want anymore didn't get in south shoot down, so we'd rather have of use day but as possible to them. um, i don't know, i don't know enough of the current situation to be able to say how much they i'll be fighting and that'd be a might spock even greater conflict within the rest of sales or dance? but it is certainly an element of the, of the stabilize and the fact that the refugees crossing the border there are um, in both directions. and as long as it is part of a of an unstable border and part of

a conflict that comes from both north and south, it's going to be as long as the government seems to be unable to deal with it's of course, it is going to add to the stabilization of the country. well that's thing the question then to joshua, cuz i know that you've been in touch with the policies recently. are you afraid that the science i'll build out for further escalations? and so it is not just that the government is incapable of stabilizing the border, is a government interventions, simply the stabilize communities themselves, sit on these interventions and not mutual interventions by government, which somehow mediates between groups their interventions, which of positive on the part of one group or a notice we've seen a series of peace negotiations. we've seen a series of military interventions. but those minute trend dimensions are blocks may be on the side of the twitch stink. and the reason for the current protest and the current violence has been the last week south of these presidents silva kia,

gave an order to a new, a figure from unit c. so the new or the 2nd largest ethnic population in south hold on good guy may check to return to my home and leave the twitch and he refused to do so, and he's back, it's his forces, but took part and really attacked the knock in the south of the territory, including i'm pushing or attorney can voice coming from bmw number into abbey a. so it has a real potential just spit out over. i'd be into contentions over the control of power, of what up he has home state, but also of my own one of the most important states for the newer and sounds to them. and if we see that, what does that mean? a well, it is a, this is an election year for solver, of course, that the after a long extension. finally, december 2024 should be the elections the brings when in a transitional period the began when south saddam's civil war ended in 2019. so do you know where it is now? it's a very delicate balancing act for solve it because solve

a full 5 years has rolled effectively by fragments in the opposition and setting them up against themselves. he did it this year in react. michelle has deleted the positions hometown of lab and he use one of let one of the mission mission mission was commanded to attack the very population that he supposed to be defending. so robin this process of centralized fragmentation and which he set suppositions against each other. now, so much to bring everyone together in the process of franklin, fragments of centralization about bringing everyone back into this come so we can prevent a unified policy to stand for the elections. and that's a very delicate balancing act. when he spent 5 years, really setting communities against each other in disputes that can easily spillover and become more generalized, regional, complex kind of thing with this kind of fragmentation, conflict and lack of resolution to issues. can the regions humanitarian situation ever really be stabilized?

i think the biggest place on the find the solution, the talk potential to really calm all programs the regional? no, i'd be i'd say just the car when it comes to be the president. what do we see too much people want to sleep across the board. this is bill probably the rate of the countries um, this is quite serious. i mean for me might be one of the is the hardest issue. all the assignments on property, you not be and i see why that is. you might say that the price, i see is a party to the commission, and this is something which needs to be discussed. see definitely see the money in government has to be on the table so that he's finding a solution that has been addresses that you might get on a try. see in the a be a sort of outsourced efforts to resolve the border issues that you, douglas,

you will you actually served on the i bought a commission. why is this what's holding up a resolution? is it the fine thing that broke out in sudan between the r a stuff in the army? or was it what's holding up? the resolution is that no government didn't call to wants to apply either of the boundary conditions record, or the hague ruling. oh, which reduce the area of the, of, of the a to basically the um the the home territories and don't think as long as the government didn't come to refuse to do more. okay. the border refused to allow a referendum. so there is no possibility of resolving that issue. and now that the government itself is not in, in the government, and cartoon is incapable of doing anything in the border area. it really relies on

sell sedan government to do something which they're not going to do a joshua unresolved conflicts like that of. that'd be a corruption on the development political instability. what's the bottom line here for sal sedan? is it failing to him? uh, just the success story that the west advocated and championed. i think the that was a really powerful war economy based on the exploitation of foreign associates, humanitarian aid in guns during the 2nd civil war and sit on the became a very powerful type talk received by some expectation of all reserves and don't have funds off the south of news independence and that's its own success story for the leader in south saddam. it's not a success story for the population which is amazing, rated and hungry. and we shouldn't forget the real travails implying that the not think in all of this stuff cannot be without a political solution. but i don't think this is

a failure of the international communities if it's wished. well, i think this is largely created with the acquiescence of the international community. we have to remember that huge amounts of don't have funds went into building what was basically a collect socratic state. and we have to remember that in app. yeah, we've had a peacekeeping force units for that, which has since its inception, over a decade ago, failed to remove the sidney's ami from the north of the turret tree. so and you know, the entire cup, the credit system is enabled by commodity brokers by the logics of global finance i . it's to sort of, i think basically neo colonial to say, oh, we gave these people to stay and then we, sorry they failed. but the failures of the state a very much the limits of the international system, but care and the culture of confidence around to move. absolutely explicitly exploit to. that is a good point before i do want to take a bit deeper into but let me bring kennedy back and ask this question. one of the,

the, the obligations within the mandates of eunice, so was supposed to be to protect civilians to help with the distribution of humanitarian aid. all the doing in, off of that, do humanitarian aid workers feel safe unit kennedy? i would say no, i mean because what it's coming to you might say the response needs coordination, not the entity kind of really responding to the site or kind of priorities. and so we have the protocol condition, which comes in that sort of file to the too much in prices. and as i mentioned, the idea, i think that the big challenge here is that the dispute have step a about be in it's a bad idea to that too much in an excess. so even if you're just for given the,

i think the funding to know the do my job as well, which i think is very important now. and that's where they need to look at on the, on the task force, you might get a response to that, that people, i need. all right, douglas, going back to the point which joshua mentioned that this is a failure basically with the questions of the international community. is that because there's too many global pals in looking at it through the prism of their own interests rather than the big picture of what 2 of the interest of the people that are in other words, a bit of a power struggle going on. i don't know that that's a problem. i mean the, the 3 countries that have been most involved in the so called troy of the united kingdom, united states, and nowhere. those were the ones who were very much involved in setting up the negotiations and financing the negotiations that led to the comprehensive piece

agreement to and they have different interest to take care of right now. i mean, tries to get anybody's attention on what's happening in the suit done. a moves out of attention away from gauze. um ukraine. good luck on that. and the going from sure down to south. sure. down and even then it was focusing on how big it's going to be very difficult to get a focus, an international consensus. and in fact, in the lead up to the referendum on independence referenda most of sales have done the u. s. government basically jettisoned any interest in be claiming that it would be, it would be a wrong to hold up the independence of sales to them to be able to resolve the issue of i'll be a john carrier, the secretary of state made that quite clear. so the international community is not

really going to take much interest in how be a it, it still doesn't take it. i mean, it didn't take interest in the va. and of course, you and peacekeeping forces are very difficult to organize. what is the central command authority do they have a few years ago? the u. n. force that was supposed to be protecting the paramount chief of the non thing come of the kind of cove, the convoy was attacked by the mysterious misery i managed to kill the paramount chief. the un force that was to protect him, shut off at the mysteria, and now and then the mystery of him demanded compensation for the people that the you and kill. so there is really very little legal force behind the, the u. n. force uh, in the units, uh in be a, uh, there's really, very little that they can do because i really don't have the authority to disarm

the shoots back on all protect, uh, the people that the sent to protect. that's an interesting point. joshua, it was revolted, that self care was seeking a meeting with the us president. when that didn't trun spot was really the went to meet with the russian president. how much global interest in john king is that going on? i mean, i around ab j not a tool. that's not really a question that the fundamental political impass of abby is because those over kia spent 20 years fighting against costume and against. but she has regime since south sydney's independence as being a realignment. that seems so we're getting much closer 1st of a she has government and then to but homes, government. and for those 2 governments, it's politically expedient for them to not result the crisis in abbey. because to say to not result that means that but home and continue to try to keep the mysteria

on the side. and the mystery is political constituency has been contested with the, our staff and for silva key a. it means that you can continue to claim to be in favor of the law and i'd be rejoining sounds to don what also keeping what past or not qualifications out of the government and not having to deal with them within his coalition. that's really the question. the question is about sidney's and south sydney's power politics. as douglas johnson, right. you said the question of the regions in russia in terms of sounds to don, especially in terms of abby isn't really a factoring what's going on at the moment. or i will leave for the discussion that let's think con, guess very much for joining us. kennedy my bunk. busy douglas johnson and joshua cries, can get a and thank you for watching and can see the show again, any time by visiting our website. i'll just say we're don't com for further discussion. go over the facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. also joining the conversation on x, our handle batteries that

a j inside story from me, sammy's i that on the entire team here for now. goodbye. once somebody shoot somebody else dead. most people expect the police to arrive with him cuz on that person and take them to jail and then stand your ground. you can shoot somebody in getting your truck and drive away. is that unusual? that is very unusual because we're talking about the crime of murder, but it's a very clear in the statute. they don't want anybody arrested. that's why it's a get out of jail free card. it's time you pull the trigger. why do you think the shooter wasn't arrested because of the law? i feel like she's hiding behind the stand your ground

several times of 1st takes on the big issue. there is a posted to what she's that for me. now. it is a question of 5 unflinching questions, rigorous, the bank that he added to 2 days the another i couldn't think is taking place. augusta, nothing goes into gauze or without us. we'll permit. and nothing leaves casa without result. permission allow me to push back for a moment, demanding of ceasefire, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence upfront without 0. the

the the hello on the thought of this with the news out loud from the coming up in the next 60 minutes. thousands of bodies discovered dumped in a gauze of school guard. witnesses say they are civilians executed by israeli forces. the, the biggest health facility in the south of the strip comes on the is there any attack house and shouting that fee of my life.