rising card thread, the apocalypse may be discovers the impact nuclear weapons have a few minutes. our failure to keep him out of the safe is by sitting down to the individual on the street. this is not a drill on out which is 0. was a raging around the world, many assessing fees against, with, with bikes, applying alms to countries. they support the united nations has been accused of weakness, paralyzed by vito's help by the magic powers. so could these global complex turned into a 3rd world war? this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program until mccrae, a global conflict, has been avoided since 1945 and the end of world war 2. and it's horrors of the

holocaust and atomic bombs dropped on japan by the us. so much of today's international political architecture, such as the united nations, stems from the optimal, foamed by world late is determined such a disaster would never happen again. yet conditions comparable to those in world war 2 are being suffered by many people today, such as in god. so you crime. so down given me in my, in central africa dimension, both a few and in recent years, hundreds of thousands of people have been killed or injured and serial to be a rock and afghanistan as a result of foreign military action. often with eastern whist backing different sides. but up until now there's been no outright fighting between russia ro, china in the us, but serious conflicts, all stand offs between the allies. wrong going, united nations peace making if it's have frequently been limited by deadlock and the security council. so is there a real danger of such global conflict erupt going into a 3rd world?

war will be asking, i'll guess this question, and many more in just a few moments. but the 1st image in kimball reports on with the current flash points of in college and destruction on an unprecedented scan. and garza, with a 100000 people either dead or injured. president joe biden said from the outset israel's will on going to the us did not want conflict escalate to other countries . despite sending weapons and worships. yet its impact is being felt across the region with concerns growing that it could spread. this is an incredibly the volatile time in the middle east. i would argue that we've not seen a situation as, as dangerous as the one we're facing now across the region. since at least 1973 and arguably, even though even before that linked to israel's goals of war in neighboring jordan

. 3 us soldiers were killed in a joint strike blamed on on a rainy and box miniature. and the role that still recovering from the catastrophic will launch by the west 21 years ago, uninstalled and 11 on the right impact on group hezbollah, quickly joined to fight with ongoing exchanges of, for up with these ready forces across the board. a, another group i like to we were on the who cheese in yemen is attacking western coal go ships saying it's a retaliation. israel's war and goals and support the palestinians. the us in the u . k. have the gun bombing him and in response to the new list of the list is the us together with the u. k. and some of their other allies have violated and trampled on all conceivable norms of international laws, including the un security council resolution, which only called for protecting commercial navigation. nobody authorized anyone to bomb yet can move just goose with a who's in europe. as nato and western states continue to send weapons and

financial support to ukraine, 2 years after russia's invasion, their fee is the conflict could spread across the continent. countries in europe has been increasing that minute tree preparedness with long time mutual, finland joining nato and mutual sweden close to doing the same. leaving east the us in china, both been carrying a military exercises in the south china sea. with intensifying focus until i won the beijing claims as part of its territory to be taken by force if necessary. and there is rising tension on the korean peninsula with north korea's lead. kim jones saying unification is no longer a possibility in size, korea and japan, strengthening the military forces. well, russia has become a strong ally of p on young since its invasion of ukraine, conflicts, also badging elsewhere with war and see done and volatility inside sea. done that follows the war in neighboring ethiopia as

t gray region in which hundreds of thousands of people were killed and were attentions remain high. with more confrontations, pitching east directly against west many, and i questioning whether the world sliding to will to white global conflict along with the hora, that would bring image and kimber out 0. the inside story, the again is bring in now just now in new york is chris hedges for the middle east bureau chief of the new york times and the prize winner and booming and u. k. scott lucas is a professor at university college dublin and it's a will view that provides news and analysis through those spice and conflict to profession and change. and in beijing, quite y'all, henry, along is the founder and president of the sense that the china and globalization and the full, the counselor to china, state council, which is china's cabinet. thank you very much for your time. and to joining us here

on inside story. if we could start broadly and then uh, focus and uh, drilled down on this specific conflicts that are happening around the world at this point in time. chris, if i can begin with you, what do you make of the premise that with sliding inevitably towards world war 3, i don't know that anything is inevitable, but these conflicts are very dangerous because whatever the intentions and i don't think that it ran as by law or the united states seat, a regional conflict of by exacerbating tensions within the regions through strikes and calendar strikes. whether that's an yeah man or that i've seen a rack. whether that's in southern lebanon, you propel yourself closer and closer to a conflict. i think what concerns me is american most is that the inner circle around joe biden, that's anthony blinking jake sullivan, and brad mccork have no real understanding of the middle east. in the case of

blinking, he sees the middle east through the lands of the net and yahoo government, none of them speak arabic, none of them are particularly familiar with the culture of the history or the, even the grievances. that's when we saw blink. and essentially go around and try and allow the error of leaders to take palestinian refugees from gaza. um it just shows how tone deaf he is. all of these people are strong, militarist sullivan, of course, stoking the tensions primarily with china. uh and uh, but, but the but binding himself who was calling for war with the rack 5 years before the us invaded. and that's what worries me the most. it's this kind of incompetence of historical linguistic, cultural, i would say, even political it literacy. and then the ability to bypass congress to not only funnel weapons, billions and weapons to sustain the genocide in gaza, but carry out strikes. whether that's and yeah, man or rack or anywhere else,

essentially without consulting congress. so from an american perspective, this is a very dangerous development in, within the state department and the intelligence community, many people consider what these 3 people around biden are doing as a very ill advised and very dangerous. so this incompetence is something that worries me tremendously battle, especially the longer that the, the conflict in gaza continues. and i don't see any, any science within the, by the ministration that they have any intention of stop it. indeed, they spend most of their time in jerusalem and we are. yeah, indeed, we heard the blinking in the story we played at the beginning of the show, basically side of the world is more dangerous now than any time in the last 50 years. scott, do you believe those woods? do you see it the same way? yeah, i don't like to use terms like rules or 3 or even cold war to point out for 2 reasons

. the 1st is it leads to exaggeration, which means we mess working at each case on an individual basis. and secondly, it leads to sweeping generalizations to blame a particular group like christmas just on what i would pointing to is to say, well, we have had a series of conflicts around the world for some time. but the stakes have been raised in the past few years, probably by 3 count was the 1st is before the current israel causes a conflict. we saw the bloody repression of movements across the middle east, especially in syria, where the establish a back by russian killed hundreds of thousands of people. secondly, we saw the russian invasion of ukraine in february 2022. and then of course, we have a mazda is mass killings, and his real followed by israel's mass killings that continue on a daily basis, killing tens of thousands and gaza. and each of those flash points,

each of those cod list can be used by various actors. not just the us can be used by russia can be used by trying to, can use by someone else to push their local power plays. and when you have an intersection of different conflicts, let's say between israel draws of syria, iran and iraq. then you have the possibility that a particular conflict can expand it to the region. and then beyond. all right, henry, i'd like to get a sense of what it is like in china. it feels like in the west there has been in recent, dies more and more talk of this concept of world war 3 being closer than ever before. is there any tool concern within china or of this? well, i think that's the, i think that's uh, you know, the, even though this just seems to be that far from china, but could actually be sleepy, a fact to china old because china, uh, you know, being the largest rating of nation. well, we, we have to actually have any dependent on those traffic and those, uh, you know,

oceans shipping and uh, the zip code. excellent. so uh, what i see is the, the ward is really catching more doctors are great. what is getting what dangers and more risky and uh, i mean i was told to level 1st i think there's a, there's the, you know, all those regional issues because we're getting the multi puddle word and then there's no multiple or system to suspend. so we see that, you know, the 1st low cost as you spend a lot of would be digital conflicts, you know, spread around them, you know, because the russian, the ukraine is $1.00 example. but also way of seeing these, the kind of stanley is your company, which is which is where the deputy and the spray all are you fact and this is getting home and logic and affecting all the vehicle. jim you as u. k. jump ready. i know you're on the to 5, but i am, but i've got to put the spill over even more countries and i,

you'll see the whole war, disruptive trade and everything. so the 2nd i think was mostly what is the present . there's a no trust between the major powers and the people. i remember contract that you would basically is not really walking together. i'm not really. i think probably the company that one of the main reason that the war categories act together to read and maintain is still going to be an older. so, i mean, we have to really think about how we companies in this piece that mean like china, as you just don't like easily why does doesn't accomplish that type of work. you somebody, you know, have a high level, somebody's and the really, let's go come to the tape and talk about a lot of them. you know, we, we, we see we're the only one country back and forth. and that's really not help. so we, we need to really use the same hub and find a solution to is going crisis. yeah, i don't think many people would disagree that the trust is probably at as low as point if a between the major players here. chris, if i can go back to your you're of obviously sky thing about by the president biden . and the us as handling of what has happened in gaza since october the 7th,

but it's almost on a daily basis. dive said that they don't want this war to escalate to broad and out into a, in a, into a regional war. but since then we have seen it creep to more and more countries, whether it's human or living on and to and to other countries like that. what this thing is very different from what they are doing, isn't that? and yeah, because the war could not be sustained without us. munitions, which of come in by the 10s of thousands of the tank shells. the artillery shells. everything else is produced in the united states. they have of course, a veto, the cease fire resolution. so on the one hand, they want it contained on the other hand, they fuel the conflict. uh and that of course is a contradiction in terms of goals. if you want to mitigate the possibilities of a regional conflict, you have to and the genocide that is realized carrying out in gaza. and i would say

that, you know, the arrow bruising countries like egypt in particular because they don't want to see this escalate. but of course, within the street, i just came back from the lease, in fact, was in doha visiting the 0. uh the anger is, is, uh, is quite wide spread and quite palpable. uh and, uh and, and uh, so yeah, so i, i blame the bye. didn't ministration for not using its leverage, it has the leverage. but because congress has bought and paid for by the israel lobby, it's not going to use it. there's a political cost that buying doesn't want to pay. and so we're, we're watching a situation now where there's widespread fam and $500000.00 stadiums or at star vision level infectious diseases are spreading. palestinians are eating grass,

90 percent of them are on the house. many living in the open under the rain or the winter rains. i mean this is just staggering in terms of the catastrophe that has been the amount of terry and catastrophe that has been orchestrated in a quite rightly triggers a reaction. remember, human itself suffered like this 400000 think? yeah, my knees died during the war and siege led by saudi arabia with the full backing of the united states. so of course they're reacting because they understand. but yes, it's, i really think the blame lives at this moment with washington for not intervening and using the power that has to end of this conflict or least bring out the bring forth a ceasefire. a prolong pause. okay, is going to, is this whole, the united states bolt the, the, the prolonged killing on a daily basis of palestinians and goes up because they have, i guess, backed unilaterally. is royal. and do you think that the conflict and guys are in,

in the middle east at this point in time, is the one that's most likely to, i guess the sprint further and potentially escalate to become a world war. i agree with chris in a sense, and i've been a scaling critic of american actions and recent launch because they're not using the blue ridge to try to pull this rarely spot. but one of the problems we have in water commentary is, is it's only about the united states. it needs to your white and out. and let me give you 2 examples with this real causal. the 1st is, is that the us along with much the international community did try to hold the net and yahoo or cabin back from our ground defensive. they tried to hold them back from an expensive bombing campaign, or after october 7th. and at the end of the day, you have to say that the agency, the decision to go out without all out campaign that mass killing us, like joslet, is what these rate would work out. it's not that the us told them to do so the us

didn't want this to happen. but the 2nd example i think is pertinent is that there are others in the region, not just the us are involved and there are others who will take advantage of this for their own purposes. so for example, the who sees roberts, who control much of young are attacking commercial shipping in the red sea. all the guys are supporting causes, but also to advance their legitimacy, their power in the area. iran, which has serious domestic problems, is trying to use the original conflict just like what were the head of the axis of resistance. and that is leading to increase compensations. not only between iran in israel and got between the iran back melisha who were fired on us personnel. so there's a kaleidoscope of actors. i think we have to get insight and very quickly on your question. i think the real cause of jim conflict can definitely expand to be original war because of all this. but also don't forget that russia's invasion of ukraine could expand across europe. if lateral pollutant continues to pursue that idea of an expansion,

this policy to not back put the west and nato as well as to try to control, keep. yeah, well, the united nations was effectively set up to try and prevent the conflicts like this. and especially them, so thinking from spreading even so that many critics of the united nations have basically said that week, the paralyzed by the major powers using veto is constantly can we, what do you think needs to happen to the united nations? you were talking about, you know, the major powers coming together. but i mean, what is the likelihood of that actually happening? and even if you could get them in the same room, how openly are they going to be able to talk and actually find any solutions here? wasn't absolutely, we probably need also, you know, reform you wouldn't be as, but i think, you know, maybe that's got a majority vote or something. you know, i mean come down to that to that. we kind of, i'll just, uh and, you know,

have one country veto for example. i mean, that's last time when, when china proposed the resolution for about a study and user conflict, i mean, you as rachel. so what, so what does the henry did with china or actually support that northern, you know, of course they're, they're, there, there's a, there's about china was the rotation, a chair of the, of, of you and the secret cause. having an emotional barbara means that there was the card to do to talk you discussions on that. and then china even calls on cobra, somebody on his classes. so i think we need to do that. we need to really have a high level talk and i've talked about how we can really reform that and, but let's go to the concepts. i think it's important to have the high level of something that's good. the hands of the 2nd i've got you like all i can tell somebody, sorry to interrupt again henry scott, i can say, you know, the why they, what do you make as of what henry is. just had to say a lot say, you know,

the specifics of the weight. and i think you asked an interesting question and that is, would china support getting rid of the veto power in the security council, which has not only been used by russia to hold up the security council and by the us to hold up security council. but china would have to give up its own veto as well. so certainly you and reform has to involve all major powers, but on a wider issue and i'd be interested you can reach thoughts on this where i think us china may be different from the other crises we talked about as it looks like there's a concerted effort by the, by the administration and by china to get back to the rules of the game. whether that's the rules of the game over taiwan, the south china sea, over economic issues, over technical issues in our technological issues, including the issue of espionage. what do you mean? does washington or guys, so the j a think rules of the game? i know, and i'll refer back to the other issues. and they get back to china. is, is that with russia and ukraine and in the sense of order across europe,

plumber violated the rules of the game in a conflict which has been going on since 2014, including russian occupation and part of the country by watching the drug military invasion that's crossing a red line. her boss drove all the rules of the nature as with the nature of its attack on israel, on october 7th, because it carried out the mass killing of civilians. and then of course, israel breaks the rules of the game on a day upon day, upon day basis with this indiscriminate war with the us in china after a period of height intention of 2022, including over taiwan, including over military issues. there has been an effort in the past year on both sides, including a series of high level meetings invasion to say, look, let's step back from the confrontation. let's agree to live and let live over a specific issue over china and over broader issues like astronomical, tre, edge at henry, i know you want me to jump on the can you just fill simple before you respond to

scott? can you just reiterate? would china actually be prepared to give up? it's based on the house of the un. no, i'm not saying that i do not have to discuss the default. i mean the desktop china, i'm just one country. i mean we have the whole country talk to god. what about lisa potter center user company, we need to have a higher level view of somebody that's got the top top view. just going to come to the table. i don't know that, you know, the security council members of congress on tape. i think the, what the problem is, what, what we see happening. i'm rushing, you can more handle all the across the entire street. well, what, what, what do we see of the, how does that mean? does your conflict is basic enough? the last to trust of the, of the major powers. and then the reason for the. 5 is that some countries are, you know, i totally pursue a lot of the policy, you know, with the coupled, the risk and whatever. so that really quite a lot of these trust and also uh, you know, what, how it was either, sir, or when the, when the cold war ended. i mean, also the colors are gonna be happening on the phone. i think the least trust of the

major powers natural as regular accomplished logic. that's what his regional. yeah, you know, uh the disabled ice. so basically the problem is, is advise, you know, major companies, we. 5 on all the major cultures that table and talk, and then i've got to be normalize the relation that's most important. they re weigh each of those added be right rate. i mean, if the major ponds view each of those live re, uh, you know, add them, you know, how come they may be solved the original problem where they have the popular. busy and whatever you're, that's really very bad. yes. oh, well, it took a little bit about the, the latest that is basically going to be making any decisions going forward. here. you've got person binding to potentially trump plaza this year. isn't yahoo? she kim jones on all taking you know, the front row seats and controlling what is going to happen next, chris, i know you've been scaling about many of, of these leaders of the types of leaders that would be able to de escalate to take

the tension out of the room, so to speak, to bring us back from the brink of, of a world war 3. well, some of them, i mean, nothing, yahoo is long lobby for a war with a ram. he that really is real lobby, was a major factor and pushing the united states into a rack, although it had nothing to do with the attacks of 911. i really think the core issue here is the expansion of us militarism. remember, we spend more on our military than what the next 9 or 10 countries combined, including china and rush. i covered eastern and central europe, including the fall of east germany and 1989 as a reporter. and i was there when the promises were made to gorbachev, not to extend nato beyond the borders of the unified germany wiki leaks released a table written by william burns. who was the ambassador to russia. now the head of

the c, i a who said ukraine is a red line. so essentially incorporating ukraine into nato is a private case. and it doesn't matter what your political perspective is. that is unacceptable to the russian people, i'm paraphrasing, and so that expansion of nato, up to russia's borders of the inability on the united states to intervene. 16 years, 2300000 gallons living in a concentration camp. these are, we have to put these things in context, the massive expansion of the us military in the south china sea. these are all prob occasions. and i, i fear that unless this expansionist policy is that defines us militarism is not put under control. i think that is the engine that is driving so much of. 7 the instability, the global instability,

i really think and, and there was no reason for the war and ukraine. i mean in fact, after a couple years of savage bloodletting in which you crane hundreds of thousands of ukrainians are killed and wounded and much of the country destroyed, you're going to end up wanting to negotiation that could have been done before. yeah, it's got all, i can say you're, you're shaking your head almost right. the way through what chris was saying, we're going to go to a couple of minutes left. can you just give your response place the general response was the, you know, stop using the us as a punching bag or is a diversion? yes, the us and it's military are to blame for a lot of what is going on, such as the 20034, and the rock. but it wasn't the u. s. military that invaded ukraine and continues to attack ukraine on a daily basis. that was why don't report and it wasn't the us that attacked israel or that attack garza, that's a mosse and that is real,

that are involved there. and if you just simply shout shout shout about us militarism. you forget the fact that this is a very complex system, such as the complex system in china. and you rule out the possibility that the us in china can find a way forward together. because you're simply shaking your fist and say, well, washington is always going to be the bad guy, is too simplistic, and it doesn't help us as i was. yeah. okay, let me just, scott, i don't, i don't think that washington is always the bad guy. but i spent 20 years on the outer reaches of empire covering us militarism and proxy wars in latin america and everywhere else. and there is no control any more. it's a state within the state. and uh yeah, certainly the other, i'm sorry chris. sorry, chris, if you're a good recorder, but as an analyst in 2023, 24, you're given up the job, but for porting on a daily basis where this is not just angels versus doubles. oh, they're a good parent into the thought today with some not it's not the angels versus

double co defend or a vladimir put in any sort. what do you committed or is a war crime, but i think not to acknowledge that he was bated and provoked. it doesn't defend what he does. he was not saying that he was not dated. he was not faded and provoked, and you just defended blood repeatedly by using that inaccurate assessment. that's what i mean about what we got i, i called her i was there in the use during the i covered it. i covered i was, there was a reporter. i watched the whole process. so you were not. i strongly disagree and i thought you were going to have something with the we really do appreciate your time . a gentleman at christmas, scott and henry, thank you very much for your time and your insights here on inside story. thank you . well, thank you. also for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out to 0. don't comment the further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's fine, spoke dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on x l handle is at

a inside story from they tell me cry in the whole team here to buy some news . the latest news, as it breaks, the old wind gauze has left thousands of students across this trip in limbo to the destruction will lead to our last generation among young people. here with detailed coverage, the gaza strip has been witnessing a severe shortage of medicine for more than 3 months. now, from the heart of the story. many people here say that in order for as well to remain united, nothing. yeah, we'll have to go the aging top is being played in cats are for a rock or 3rd time. 24 teams are competing for the trophy. there can only be

4. can you to run across the action from out the tournament? phasing half on the steep increase in secular attacks across the occupied westbank. the us sanctions for the ratings, but thousands of others going punch the on the clock. this is life and uh we'll say coming, israel's defense minister says reference. so the gals was the next target for ground to so more than a 1000000 palestinians of new federal escape find to find the palestinian civil with.