or station, an unforgiving climate change. a young indigenous leader makes all the plans to protect or village fire beneath a witness documentary on that. just so, you know, how far will the us go in a checking your rod links targets and then at least washington is counted on strikes against pro error on the groups in syria and iraq, the retaliation for drone attacks last week in june. so could this spill over into a why the conflicts? this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian instead of going to the united states as but it struck at least 85 targets in iraq and syria using long range bombers

floating directly from the us. they were carried off in response to a drug attack on an army base in jordan, last weekend. the killed 3 american soldiers on the groups, backed by a ron, a targeting to us over its support for israel as well on gaza. president joe bivens says the us attacks just the beginning of its retaliation. so how will iran react? and could this lead to a wider regional conflict? there's plenty to dissect and to discuss. but for us, this report takes a closer look at those us strikes the, the us of the launch, dozens of air strikes and syria and a rock using long range bombers. the white house says it does not see conflict in the middle east, but ward instead of tax will continue at times and places of its choosing. the us military person struck more than $85.00 targets at 7 facilities utilized firearms, islamic illusionary guard. and another thing is that they sponsor 3 of the

facilities. our rec, for them are in syria. american officials cool. the strikes are tell you ation to a drone attack on us troops. nearly a week ago, 3 soldiers were killed and dozens injured at the military base in jordan. presumably, the goal of the campaign is to re establish deterrence, which is at the end of the day, a political and a psychological condition. so the question is, can the, these actions inflict enough damage on a rainy, an interest that the uranium as well uh, you know, basically step back from doing this sort of thing. again, in the future, iraq's military condemned, the attack is a violation of its sovereignty. and serious governments as the occupation of its territory by us forces cannot continue the

present to bind vows to these strikes are just the beginning. leading me to wonder how far the us is prepared to go. since i'm on an al jazeera for inside story, the, let's bring it out. guess for today's discussion from tyrone, we're joined by it. mohammed not on the political out list and professor at the university of tap, ron from london. read up ma'am. saw city a research fellow in the director of the iraq and issued to the chess of house of british think tank from washington dc. lawrence called see a fellow at the center for american progress. and for us, the assistant secretary of defense gentlemen, welcome the will, haven't. but i'm the professor of how dangerous a mobile is for the is this for the region release strikes be the last the united states is only a big hit, digging itself into, you know, into a deep, deeper hole of the united states as a legally occupying one 3rd of syria,

the united states keeps its military bases in iraq, despite the fact that the rocky problem, as told them to leave. they struck bases that are linked to the iraq military. they belong to the middle of the rocky military in the rockies condemned the attack and the same issue with syria and they will fight and wants to look strong. he hasn't attacked the ryans and most importantly is the fact that this is about the rocky and syrian sovereignty. the americans liked to call everyone iranian proxies. the, yeah, many uses the lebanese, the palestinians, and the rockies and the syrians. but that's just, they're just misleading public opinion, and they're pulling themselves. people don't like their countries to be occupied. okay, you could also argue professor, the but it wrong is occupying pots of, of syria, iraq, unless the couldn't,

you know, iran doesn't have any forces any rock. and he runs a role in syria is with the consent of the internationally recognized government in damascus. and in any case, but it has, but it has, it has the proxy and it does have proxy malicious that it doesn't it know whatever iran does. again, syria, it is with a consent and support of the government. iran helps defeat i assist in trying to remember and on february, the 12th 2000 and of jake sullivan. the now if you in the us national security advisor, sent an email to hillary clinton saying, who is the secretary of state saying that in syria outside is on our side. i just came from outside the us defense intelligence agency,

document of 2012 said that the us allies in the region wanted to establish a solid fed, a solid life is entity between iraq and syria. and then to the general general michael saying, who is the head of the that agency at the time said in an interview on, on al jazeera, that the you let us took a willful decision to support the establishment of the solid present to the that was isis so the ronnie and when the us and its allies were establishing highs this and now kind to and there are serious, the iranians were helping the syrians and the rockies to prevent ices from taking over the mass coast and by the boat. right out a lot. so a lot of them, what do you make of what he just what as well i think uh, i mean it's important to kind of new on some of the history of the americans. we're also invited to here on in 2014, by the iraqi government to support in the fight against isis. so at that time, and during the find the game sizes, the americans and the iranians had the, had

a common enemy. and they, fox, uh, you know, not looks at not on the same side by side, but with this, with the common and after i says, we're living in this sort of post isis. what is it? are we not do the do is region where now they're sort of turned on each other, and this is the latest thought of this escalation. so both either on and the us had significant influence across these countries in the us does have troops in iraq and syria. and iran, of course, has, you know, i agree that you calling them proxies. takes the agency away from these blues, but they are aligned and they do work together. and these are networks that span across him and 11 on syria and the raw, pursuing at times it runs uh for them policy goals. so this is a very dangerous, i think, i, you know, some are calling a tinderbox right now, where neither the iranians nor the americans want an all out war or a direct conflict. but what we're seeing is this tit for tat, show

a force that's making the region very dangerous. yeah. iraq's ministry, spokes person, or at least that the ministry spokesman for the prime minister said that the, this us reprisal will have disastrous consequences for the region. what do you mean when you say dangerous, and what do you think he meant by disastrous? well, again, the, there's a certain theatre are being constructed right now that you're off. the government is trying to present itself as a sovereign country. but of course, sovereignty the, it's very difficult to, to, to maintain. when you have the right hand, the, the turks, the americans, are constantly violating the boundaries of the rocks within, throughout the government's perspective, for its own population. it's trying to say we are solver and we, you know, we need to stand up when our territories are being attacked when groups linked to the government. and keep in mind that groups like a tab, his beloved advocate in

a job, and these different population armed groups are connected to the rock, the government. and so it's, it's the prime minister of his books person coming out and presenting the veneer of a sovereign states when the reality is far from florence cold. do you wanna come back on on anything that you've heard so far before i put a direct question to you? and yeah, i think it's important to keep in mind that we left a rock in 2011. in fact, i talked a while ago about state basically we came back in 2014 at their invitation because what isis was doing, and basically that has been our role. but for october 7th, we were carrying this out. we were talking to the rockies about leaving. sometimes they say something publicly, but privately now they still wanted us to say. but after october 7th,

you had over a 160 attacks on the american forces where in iraq and syria, fortunately, no one was killed. so our response was not overwhelming or as strong as it has been when the americans died. and that's where we are right right now. and my experience with the rockies, a lot of times they'll say something publicly to a piece that you're writing. but then primarily they'll say no, no, we really still want you to stay. what does it mean for the us as a desire to withdrawal from iraq complete play? when we, when it, as it runs foreign ministry said lead to the us actually becoming more not less involved in the region as well. again, a lot depends upon how long we need to go after the groups out. we are responsible not only for killing the americans, but those $160.00 attacks and whether a ran will try and writing these groups in. and you all and ran has 3 proxies. in

the region, they've got the holidays and yep. and they've got a, they've got has the law and the level to and then they've got the, these are a rocky groups. so in now, in, in a rock, they completely control has more law. the others, they don't have much control, but they have so i think this is what we're going to expect. not only in a roc thought with the who these assignments, but i the us special securities folks, i'm joan cubby said that the, the goal is to get the attacks on us interest to stop with not he said, quote, looking for a war with iran. now. no targets were hit with in iran, and these were tired of 3 strikes out when i run on his proxies respond when it will is ray in these groups in as lawrence said, the us wants it to well, let's be clear,

the contrary to what you're guessing united states as these are not foxes. and the real issue here is the genocide and gaza have no doubt about it. and the united states, as we speak is preparing those rarely regime for an expansion level. so in the coming weeks, we may have heavy fighting inside the, remember not uh, the united states is not retaliated in syria. the united states is an illegal occupation force in syria in the time for area where it occupies. in fact, there are tribes that were loyal to isis. those tribes are trained by the americans right now. and they use that area of tends to attack the syrian government forces. and in the last couple of months, they tell me about 2 major attacks. in each case,

killing between $15.00 to $20.00 a conscript soldiers on buses. and i think on both occasions so the united states. it's present a sincere as a legal. it is stealing theory and oil and the east of the country. and exporting it any rock, the united states has bombed rocky military position to get us destroyed. the rocky facilities that were constructed and paid for by the rocky government. this is the reality on the ground. nothing will change that. and i should also add that the united states, after the assassination of the rocky commander, i will matthew alamo hondas alongside general thoughts and solely money at the rocky international airport for over 4 years ago. the rocky problem is demanded that the united states leap and they never did. they said they leave, but the united states has one strong car to play with. and that is that all of you,

rocky oil that is sold, the money goes to accounts in the united states. and whenever the rocky government goes too far, the americans start with holding the rocky fund and creating a crisis in iraq. so the americans don't like the godfather, they stand back, they pretend to the good guys, but just like in gaza where they are part of the this genocide. and here they play the same role. remember the united states and the rock, they help sit down, posting the west scapes, adonis and chemical weapons. do us both alongside, sat down with st, against the wrong, in 1988 striking iranian ships. and then it turned against the rock. later on it invaded iraq who created this mess. it was the united states largest. you want to come back on on that as well. again, i think it's important to keep in mind that we did leave when the rockies asked us to leave. okay, we were willing to leave some folks there,

but biology says no. so we left completely. we were asked to come back by the iraqi government. and the other thing, i think it's important to keep in mind the rocky government publicly will say things to a piece of land, but privately they'll tell us no, we really still want you to know how to stay. so i think it's important i sent to to keep that in mind. and basically we ended up in syria to fight isis, which was going after the rocky curves. that's why we were, we're all up there. so this has been our role. and prior to the attack, the october 7th attacks, there was no conflict going on. there were no shelling or anything like that. it was october 7th when i ran, i think, gave the green light to a lot of what they call the cards for people in iraq. to attack americans in iraq and, and serious. so i think this, that is the key thing. but morris. i mean,

how to, how do you want to professor around these accusations that the u. s. is ultimately caused all of this in a hit for his and he was that he was saying that, but the u. s. is in syria illegal in his stealing? it's oil. no, wait a 2nd. we're not there. and legally we went. they are when they are rocking government assets to protect the iraqi kurds in isis went up into syria. that's where we're there. we're not they act back. we've been criticized and not getting involved in the syrian civil war, which was part of the arc spring. right on i know you're waiting patiently, but i'll just throw the for briefly back to the bahamas, where on the just to just do on so that and then we'll move on a look. i gave the evidence the book and go back to the email jake sullivan. they can go to the defense intelligence agency, document of 2012. they can go to michael fins interview on al 00. they can also go

and look at the history of the us dealing oil. they can also go back into 20142015. when iraq, you, oil was being sold at by isis to neighboring countries and to out of the and as well. and the us air force back then was flying over ices positions that may never struck any of those thousands of tankers. it was only when the russians actually entered one of the 1st things that they did was a space truck. there was convoys. the history of the united states and ices is clear as day. and the united states is history with saddam hussein. being an ally of saddam hussein and with the west, giving him chemical weapons that is clear as day as well. all right, the united states always wants to present itself as the protagonist, just like in gaza. okay. and gaza fixed the palestinians. felt history began on october, the 7th and of story. that's not going to solve the problem for the united states,

the united states as a declining power. and it has to begin to look at reality objectively. otherwise, it will suffer more than anyone else. all right, right. that's that thanks so much for waiting so patiently before it again, i ask you a specific questions you just want to uh, want to come in on on what you've heard to you the yeah, sure. i think the, you know, trying to build a narrative between good guys and bad guys, no matter who is on the good and bad, isn't really helpful to trying to understand what is going on. of course, both the, your audience and the americans pursued their interests. they pursued politically, economically, mid the territory, how they could maintain as much influence as possible in the, in, in the, in the region. now what's become there is that the americans have had more of an ingle here is to their foreign policy withdrawing at times. coming back in really being unable to maintain strong influence. and if you look at the other side that your audience has, the, your audience have built strong networks of allies on groups across the region with

a plan inside. that's not a plan for just today and tomorrow, but a plan for, you know, decades in advance and that's the strategic difference, the binding of the ministration right now. you know, before october 7th was withdrawn from iraq. there was the joint cooperation, you know, dialogue, security dialogue in which to divided ministration was basically saying we are, we're trying our, our troops. and this is what we want and, and the rocky government was, was on the same page. so there was a process, a roadmap. now of course, october 7th has had, you know, it's complicated that because of israel's bombardment of guides and also attacks again. so you know that i gave americans in iraq and syria, as we've seen, including the depth. it's hard for the bite and ministration now to be seen as withdrawing, especially in light of what happened. and i've gotta stand by the administration. doesn't want to leave it like it's running away or that it looks appears weak. so that's what we're stuck right. and now it's very clear that both americans and they

are different want to with martha withdrawal. but how do you, how do you construct that theaters is the challenge and run it as far as the strikes themselves are concerned at what, what are we to make up the scale and scope of them? we surprised at how far they went on will they as national security spokesman john cubby is hoping to get the attacks against us interests in the region to stop . well, 1st of all, i mean there have been a tax against kentucky as well. uh and other of these are groups, these iran allied groups in your office here for many years. um, you know, places like outta and which was quite heavily had, has costs and even been hit over the year. so i wasn't surprised that such 5 by these heads, you know, i don't mind the lenders who is killed along side pass and spend money by the americans, you know, in january 2020 was the head of kentucky as well. and, and many of these groups, i think, was become clear is as a response, you could

a time, you could killing their leaders. you could continue to, to attract the economic interest. you can sanction them, but this isn't working. these groups are surviving and they're more influential. so there's just a fundamental predicament that the american type in that is that their policy tool, whether it's attacking whether it's sanctioning isn't working to advance american interest. lawrence cope to what extent did president bind to have to act and order these strikes. he was in a pretty impossible position was the but needed to tread. a fine line between the tyrant says, as the us sees it, an escalation as well, there's no doubt about it. he had to do something for both. i think strategically and politically because he's up for re election and be republicans or criticize them, or just leaving our troops and they are and their view defenseless. so i think his 1st response was very, very well plan. okay. unfortunately,

some people were killed about 37 in the 2 places, but they attacked the infrastructure all the forces. they are about 85 of the targets so far, and this will make it more difficult for them to continue attacking the american, the american, the all forces. so i think it's been measured, want to think was really significant, is the fact that we use b one bomb or start so all away from the united states because these are nuclear capable. now they weren't high tech, a nuclear bombs, but they can really unleashed devastating consequences much more the fighter aircraft that you might have on an aircraft carrier. and the other thing is, i think we're basically work a know with the right. and so i'm sure this doesn't get out of hand. remember, we were the radians that isis, we're going to attack them about a month ago. we trauma, because that's why we're there. remember isis?

the one who attack us on 911. so we have been concerned about it. we're not involved in this? no, no, no, no, i didn't mean to interrupt, you know, i just, i was just coming towards the end of the appointment but the by the, by haven't, my idea is i could see him smiling and shaking his head. he has a he wants to want us to get it and go, go ahead moment. yes, the americans did not give any intelligence about the bomb attack. that is just a fable. but at the end of the day, the facts remain to fax, the united states occupation in syria and iraq are illegal contrary to what you're a good guess in london. believes the united states hasn't, has no plans to leave syria, aren't you? rock and the united states has been dragging its feet as much as possible, and it will do so. and that's for us to be. but what the united states did last night is not going to change anything. they, most of the people that they killed were innocent people, they bombed the bakery,

they bombed a gas gas station, they bombed a recreational park, and they killed a few syrians and the q u rockies. they didn't touch iranians and the bomb the same place that they've been bombing for many years. they bombed as are guessing london pointed out, they find these areas in the past. and it is interesting that as soon as the americans carried out these air strikes, isis attacked these bases in 4 different areas. why is that the case? because the united states has been working with the tribes that we're with isis before. and as time is a center for that, so ultimately if the united states wants to continue down this road, he can work in killing more people that can create more minutes range. but this is going to get worse. and the united states ultimately just as it failed and iraq and afghanistan and libby and german and elsewhere is going to fail here as well. okay, we're, we're rapidly running out of time right now, but i will come back to you. you can have the final word, but 1st i, i've got

a plan lawrence responded to, to what he's just about as well. again, i think it's important. keep in mind we want to take it out of a rock. it was a mistake for us to when they added cost. so it's much more than we thought we were asked to go back. i can't emphasize that too much because the president obama was trying to get out of that. that area, he campaigns are. we were asked to go back, that's why we went back and we have back channel communications with around all of the time. and as i say, again, i have very good information that we warned around about the ice is attacked close at 2. we're fighting and previous to october, 7th, to all of these year since 2014 and 10 years our courses weren't attacked. there was only after october 7 that they were attacked, hoping that would get us to put pressure on uh, on israel. and by the way,

we are putting pressure on israel. okay. alright, a right now we're almost out of out of time. please briefly it coming on on what you've just said. i wanted to ask you about about what would it make of us policy? and the reason concerning these groups is that a coherent us policy? i think one of the challenges for the, for the us isn't incl here isn't. and in the policy, it's a sort of one foot it one foot out approach, which isn't working as i say, the americans have killed very senior armed leaders in iraq, syria over the years. they've sanctions, many of these groups, all the policy tools that the us have to try. and as you know, quite bottled these groups to try and maintain their own insurance aren't working. and that's why we're in the reality that we are today, which, which is an arena in a region where the americans, insurances is waning, and you know, 20 years 21 years on since 2003, the us is losing its, it's increasing,

losing as leverage but i'm afraid, gentlemen, we must leave it manufacturing to too old for bringing with us. have it had to run a bunch or, and lower as cold. as always, thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the websites of all just here a dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page. you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash age a inside story out. of course, you can join the conversation on x, i'll handle that at asia inside story from me, adrian said again. and the same here though. huh. we'll see you again. i set up the hey, jane intervenes as a un ambassador position given to you by or does have both. you've described that is better than is better than any thoughts provided. hang on. my question to you. all that good cooks, i think, is the most difficult press than our part to answer facing realities. usb 2. in the

security council, this is a major stumbling block, is a problem to access it. you hear the story on told to how does era the latest news as it breaks, people are scared from the facts that are also a target is happening is 20. 24 with detailed coverage is regularly forces continue. their intense bombing around lost their hospital in, pon eunice, from the hall to the story. dozens of being arrested interrogation and put into the presence of given information on family members. the cloud of nuclear war wounds have a press. what if this is the beginning of one of those accidental wars? what is this is the beginning of the end of life? because we know from the horrors of recent history to the rising card threat, the apocalypse maybe discovers the impact nuclear weapons have funds to monitor our

failure to keep him out of the safe is by sitting down to the individual on the street. this is not to drill on out which is 0. then they'll kinda stay just underway. yeah, the agent cup being played here and to tell for a reco good time. once the whole thing started the tournament, but only one will be crowned champions. will keep you right across the action. the agent on israel has now imposed a complete fees on god's sense. so how do they survive? if you have no income, how do you live? cost of living rose sharply after the war and ukraine could something like that happen again as a ripple effect of the 1000. what is it us contract is mainly who are benefiting from this when the price of oil goes up, the cost of almost every thing goes up. counting the cost on algae there

the a series of s 5 sit locations across the gibbons capital cost for us. that operation against a radian link targets the products and a robin working on civilized headquarters here in the also coming up a region on the wrong condemns us as strikes in iraq. and siri as a mistake is rarely as strikes pound rough site in southern guns with hundreds of thousands of displaced palestinians.