just for some slow, we need our country. they have destroyed everything. they have destroyed the future of our children. they left nothing. no schools, no universities, nothing clean and well rebuilding. garza seems a long way off palestinians want the bro. okay to end for good. and to have the chance to shape deadlines, free from is really control. camille and other like on to 0, where 0 is read calling it some boss that are case reopened in a growing dispute about the war and gaza on sunday. resilience presidents lose and not feel of this of the said israel is committing genocide. it compared its actions to the holocaust. israel's has little has crossed a red line drawn home. it has more. but that's where am i to upload? it was this comment from brazilian president read enough feel, lou, let that silver know. but many simply is lula that started things of that. what is happening in the gaza strip of the palestinian people has no power low in

other historical moments. i was there. so in fact, it did exist when hitler decided to kill the jews. comparing is rose mass, killing of palestinians in garza. so the whole of course, drew an immediate reaction from israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu. president silly by his grace the memory of 6000000 jews worded by the nonsense and his demonize, the jew estates like the most virulent anti semites, you should be ashamed of himself. and on monday, israel's foreign minister summoned brazil's ambassador to the country's holocaust memorial for a public pointed dressing down, culminating, and this will settle model the code and way as i asked to convey to president lou lou will not forget, no, forgive, and i declare him my name and the name of the citizens of those royal episode a non grata in his royal as long as he does not apologize to you and take it back. the president lula is not bucking down. you were cooper as it was,

and busted it to israel for consultations. and some of these radium baskets presented for an explanation as this diplomatic dispute continues on home. and i'll just see it is where the forces are covered at a series of raids in the occupied westbank over night fighting. busy on the storm, the city of to bus these really military also made an encouragement, is the village of the chief near numbers. so the news is going to continue after the bottom line. don't forget the website, i'll just come to my mailbox and stay with us. and obviously the, this is the 1st to decide that we see in real time it's the victims themselves. there's a disconnect between what we are witnessing on social media versus what we're seeing on mainstream media. it is always an attempt to frame at the 2 sides of them,

but there is no 2 sides to this. the western media does have a western bias who understand what they are looking to get out and raise. the listening post covers how the news is covered in the history of refugee camp. south of bethlehem walls carry the images of palestinian detainees as my hon. mishaps husband set previously spent a year and administrative detention. she tells us he was arrested again several days ago. connect today to create a computer benign we suffered a loss because of administrative detention. it would have been easier if you will sentence. then we'd know he'd be released after finishing his sentence. walk down any valley here, turn any corner, and this is what you will likely find. one household after another full of families waiting on word about their loved ones being held without charge, according to the palestinian prisoners society around $3300.00 comes to indians are

in this really jails sentence to administrative detention. the highest number in more than 30 years. surrounded by walls, full of photos, to showcase happier times. these women try to lighten. but with the uncertainty only deepening, there's little comfort to be found. i am steve clements and i have a question. why is israel and most of the west targeting the only un agency that serves millions of palestinians? let's get to the bottom line. the one day after the winning court ruled that it's possible the israel is carrying out a genocide in gaza. western countries did something strange. they didn't distance themselves from israel instead and a move led by the united states. more than 16 nations then started to suspend funding to unwrap that organization in the united nations relief and works agency was created in 1949 and quickly became one of the u. n's. biggest programs serving about 6000000 refugees,

descendants of the palestinians who fled or were forced out of their homes by the creation of israel in 1948. israel now accuses 12 individuals had of interest, 13000 employees in the gaza strip of taking part in the surprise attack on israel last october. the u. n says it will investigate and publish its findings over the next few weeks. but you and officials warn the crippling and now in the midst of a humanitarian crisis and gaza is to put even more lives at risk in a place where a 100000 palestinians have already been killed or maimed by israel. and almost 2000000 are in temporary shelters with no place left to go. so what's happening to the millions of people not only in gaza, but throughout the region who depend every day on and risk services to survive. and what are the politics at play? today we're talking with layla hello, a former senior policy advisor to en, route and legal advisor to the palestinian authorities, negotiations department and, and are fine. who teaches post colonial studies at the university college london, and is author of refuge and resistance palestinians,

and the international refugee system. it's great to have you both on today. thank you for joining us. the somber subject, but i want to start off listening to matthew miller, a state department spokesman, and get your reaction. so assessing and matthew, so i'm not going to respond to the comments by individual members of the connected . but i will say that under a has done and continues to do in valuable work to address the manager and situation in gaza at great personal risk and romance members. i believe it's over a 100 henri staff members have been killed during this live saving work. and we continue to not only support it, but we continue to commend them for the really heroic efforts that they make off and time while making the greatest sacrifice. so they love that comment by matthew miller was made about a month ago. 9 days after that, united states and many other nations said they were going to suspend funding for unreal. tell us why and tell us what the implications are. well,

so as many people know that is there is riley's and the fisher general of under a have the regular meeting and which the is really a official present of a set of claims saying that 12 staff members had been involved in the october 7 attacks. and at that point, the official general laza renae came out and made a statement that he would be firing all um 9 employees that were, that he could account for. and this created um a domino effect whereby the us and other major donors of the west donors to honor i said that they will be suspending aid because of this claim that the association between these 12 staff numbers and how

most activity you're in. let me ask you the, the you in a comp you in relief and works agency for palestinians was created in 1949 even though there was an un high commissioner for refugees. and then just sort of interested in why this organization was created when the united nations had another agency, the un high commissioner for refugees. i'm already in place the show. well, best up the, it's important to note that the u. n. h. the out of high commissioner for refugees was no actually in existence when in her was created. so in her with created as you said at the end of 1949 unix, the i did not, i meant to be until the following year. so that's the best thing to keep in mind. the other thing to be aware of is when you and hcr was created, it has a restricted mandate much more restrictive than it has now been enabled. it's what to only be applied to european refugees. so this idea of creating specific you an

agent dates of particular groups of refugees was very much the norm at the time that was in raffle. now actually for palestinian refugees, the palestine refugees, refugees from palestine which until 1952 included also providing services to jewish refugees. and we're still doing that in 1952 at the request to be as ready to government because there was internet, there was, he went h d a at which time slot, you know, used to. and then in the 1950s, we also had un k r i, which was created for career market. so that was the norm at the time. it wasn't until 1967 that you will need to be off monday with universalize. and then you are essentially them withdraw. i think that's the 1st thing that's really important to keep in mind here because that often gets lost and it's all, it's been noise around this issue. the other thing to keep in mind is an inner, has a much more restricted monday to this day, then you and actually i have not only and who is that through the, in the kind of work it does. and where is mandated solely to provide relief services to palestine. refugees in the 5 deals where it was as i called you and it

should be out by contrast is also mandated to dispute. durable solution for, for journal pollution, 2 cases of displacement and they provide protection to the refugees that it works with. so tell us the product time refugees are actually in some way or my disadvantage because the agency that says them as a much more limited mandate than the age of the the fed pulled at the refugee group . i don't wanna spend too much time on it, but i found an important distinction that on wrote, wasn't a way never designed to necessarily. we turn people back to their homelands or to resolve those issues. is that correct? that is correct. yeah. you and h d a does have this purpose to fit you in solution and it profess the solution over time. that'd be dead in right. does not have a purpose and it's never been built and said responded, well it, i want to try to get it again. the scale of this. so providing schools, hospitals,

medical and food nutrition, kind of the broad social support within guys itself. they're 13000 employees of and run the broader when you look at the west bank, you look at other displays populations in syria and jordan and. and so the footprint of this organization, one is a huge employer. but to what happens when we're talking about 12 individuals and i, you know, the thing that comes to mind is, every big institution may have bad x. what are your own thoughts about holding an institution liable just for the activities of a very small number of people? well, it's absolutely absurd and given the, the circumstances to say that an organization that is so vital to a delivery as it is in gaza is unable to of function or that states that are giving the voluntary contributions to support under those services are going to withhold those funds because less than one percent of the south

has been accused without a significant evidence. there are numerous outlets have reviewed the da ca, the summary that ca, that israel has released. it does not include any evidence of of what they are claiming. and so given that there is no evidence given that they're such a small percentage of the $13000.00 staff that are vital to a delivery it, it becomes extremely out of content x. and lets complicit with a and it's a genocide agenda. so there, there's several of things going on right now. one of which is that israel is, you know, rhetorically and tactically, using this,

this claim of a, a associates from us, an entre to mobilize american public opinion to mobilize the congress a and an anti palestinian bias. right, the word terrorism is so provocative and can be quite leverage with us congress and other um, and the public, but then israel and released this summary dosa with this. these claims of the staff members were involved in october 7th. on the day that the icj, a opinion of rendered a, a finding of possible genocide and called on israel to take measures to stop that genocide. so israel's also obstructing and of scaring it's its responsibility. and we've seen that in what i would call it a lovely her for the train vide,

and then israel and congress at this point, that they are willing to work with israel. and it's project of the country and eliminating how this finance and gaza and uh, just a job pays well. i think it could later made a really important point about the i c. j rolling. i think it was lagging because you asked about the western state role in this. so the icj, i also rules that 3rd party states had a role and a responsibility to ensure that essentially military in a to get into gaza. there was also a possibility that in now withdrawing, essential funding from n or a thursday may actually be in breach of that ruling. so go a little bit deeper and because the international court of justice when it came did not find is real guilty of genocide said there may be reasons possible reasons to think that this may be underway. israel is,

is expected and required to respond to those. what's interesting to me is i'm a, i'm aware of any countries that distance were suspended their relations with israel after that i c. j funding. but literally, on the, on the day after you know, nearly 2 dozen countries, i think we've got, we went from 9 countries and 16 countries. and now i think we're up to 20 countries right now that are at least temporarily suspending funds to unreal. and so layla just said, maybe this is a distraction tactic, but the systemic nature of the size, the biggest vendors are germany, the united states, the you are all in the suspension line. what do you think is going on there? well, i think it's worth keeping in mind that this has not come out of nowhere. there is a long running and that has been a long running campaign against en route, which pre date the type of the 7th which predicts the current. well, by yes, i mean nothing you know, the cold. so in order to be disbanded, i believe in 2017,

a cold for again in 2018. at that same year 2018 we had the trump administration, a close alliance with nothing yahoo! pulling all of its funding to enroll, there's been a long running theme of basically mary and her up trying to present it as some kind of a problem on the ground. often trying to conflate enters what with her mouth. and the, the latest allegations are really best understood in that longer time to contact some of the is real side. some do not differentiate between palestinians citizens, citizens of gaza and from us. but we sort of look at that and you kind of look at the, you know, the arrangements here, you know, it, it then changes the game about how you look at one, right? if one right is empowering and supporting all of these folks that you look broadly as an enemy is realize, had enrolled on it's in, it's in its target list for

a long time. but what does it think would be replaced? i mean, i think it raises the fundamental question. if not done right then what? well, let me just say one thing very quickly is steve, which is the palestinians are not citizens of gaza. gaza is a very small strip of territory and it is not recognized as a state. it is effectively occupied. their point is real and 80 percent 70 to 80 percent of posts. and he's living and gaza, or refugees, of who had lived inside israel, including places quite close. i appreciate that distinction because i look at them as having rights and you know, having deserving a state. i'm showing my own bias in this situation, but thank you for raising that. right. and so then the larger point is that what, what, what the irony of israel's desire to get rid of on or is that referring to what and mentioned the,

the you posted in the refugees are treated as an exception and they're not covered by the you and hcr, which is empowered to move politically for durable solutions, including the right of return for palestinian refugees in the event that unreal stops operating. and so should israel proceed with this plan to try to you know, get it, move it to a situation where a palestinian refugees and gaza are not covered by an rows aid. we would be able to call on the you and hcr to stuff up. and essentially ask israel to allow them to return. so there is an irony in, in this, in addition, israel as an occupying force would be legally responsible to care for the population. and so the could pro, quote, in the west has always been, we will funding this agency despite it's 0 taishan to the israelis because we are

not going to move and ask israel to address the rights of the refugees. but we will fund this aid mechanism in order to keep the status quote and help manage the conflict. so, you know, israel sees an opportunity of disruption at this moment to try to leverage of bias and the accuracy of the agency, but at its own cost you can just imagine a horrible escalation of the situation this point. and i'm saying if that is the, the a possibility, a nightmare that we may be walking towards, why aren't more people careful about the owner? a dimension of this? i think that's a very good question. and many common cases alongside palestinians in from god i have been raising the alarm for months. now about the mounting evidence that the is

really government is the king that you use, as well as a way to 4th of the display. possibly millions of palestinians from god that we have, as i said, you know, mounting evidence that that is the plan that was a need a document from these ready for a ministry that can be talked about this. and that have been suggestions coming from various members of the is really state that ga, that should be quite emptied of its inhabitants. and also being concerned that what being dressed up and framed a few minutes bearing about duration would really be a way to facilitate this post displacement. but um, the, the un a need to ship themselves actually said earlier this week that they would not be part of a because really moves to evacuate rafa, which was which was probably coming in the context of the driving cont, then that, that might be on the car, and are there areas that been run needs the risk form where it's under performing?

you both know the institution. well, mean on the other side, those that will be critical to ventura, but are there other areas where the institution is performing poorly? they would also, in gender doubt among its donors is the problem like this was really a reflection of the underlines. they yeah, of the international community, more than 75 years now. to grok the product and refugees, that right of return and to recognize the right to national self determination. so when there is this focus on en route and is that, can it disregard that for the framework for them, which is operating in raw, has now for a very long time the operating with there is done with it. it is significantly stretched, but unfortunately, the, you know, so for the international community in reality that's what we're talking about. there is, is really the west has for whatever reason, refused to recognize what that indicates about the underlying on inability of

policy, the interest possession and having that chosen to make out. but the problem that exists with the agency itself, layla the funding mechanism to ventura, seem very tight in to those powers that were big and significant building united nations. it's activities in the late 19 forties. but eric, gulf states, which are now very rich themselves, are not a major part of the unreal funding scheme. why is that? because they, because it is precisely usa because it is the, the, the british, the americans because of the, the, the germans, the europeans that are responsible for the situation of essentially handing off mandate palestine to the creation of a jewish state on a palestinian territory. so there is a longstanding sense of responsibility and to tie in to unrra

a. structurally, they sit on the advisory council and commission of honor. they have ongoing mechanisms of review and monitoring and requests for what i was doing and the gulf states while rich are not in the practice of stepping up and helping palestinians in general. but also they are not they want, that's interesting. you just said something. i never thought about using an app the founding of this. it was essentially a deal created around the displacement of people in the creation of this real estate, displace palestinians resolving and responding to those. that itself may be a reason why other arab states in the region are not being more supportive. but i guess my question to you then would be, why aren't they are state standing up and creating competitive structures. we're doing much more than they're doing that doesn't necessarily validate that founding at why, why should they, i guess is what my my question would be,

i ultimately these are, you know, the house and refugees are refugees because they are not allowed to go home. their property was exposed, created. they've that, you know, the borders are close to them by israel because they are not jewish. so they want to go home on like many other refugees who are seeking a protection and wanting to stay in other countries for protective purposes. and so the question becomes really, why won't israel allow the refugees to come back? and why is it that we have to have an ongoing agency that acts as of you know, is a state service for state laws, refugees who are seeking to return to their original homes, many of which are still standing or a property which is still

a or land that is still vacant, so i think the question becomes really why as an israel stuffing up to its responsibilities and let me give you the last word in this and, and i guess my use. oh, i'm a realist, i'm, i'm not an idealist. i don't see things as they are not as we you know, sort of want them to be. but when i look at an equilibrium between israel's interest and eventual palestinian state for palestinian entities interest, i look at the are region broadly. you look at the us and europe, i guess you're an expert on just place people sitting on how to support. do you see any pathway to a stable and enduring and just alternative then the chaos we're seeing evolved today, and i just love to get you to quickly sketch out what you see as an alternative other than what we're seeing evolved today, which is chaos and a lot of horror actually to well we need to keep in mind that the, what the palestinian people have been asking for for 75 years and have been

struggling for for 75 years is simply the realization of their rights as they stand within the framework of international law, these include, you know, most permanently in this context the right over time. so when we're talking about the possibility of wasteful old or new ideas, it's what keeping in mind we have an existing framework. the palestinian people have very consistent, meet the 75. yes. demanded that their rights under that frame, what they recognized and be implemented. and that is really what we need to come back to. rather than going to fight down the rabbit holes of acting as though in right is itself the problem and not a product that the biggest structural problem. well fascinating, an important discussion. i want to thank you and rights lawyer, layla law and university college london lecture, and you're fine. thank you both for being with us today and your candid views on this. thank you so much i. and so what's the bottom line? remember george floyd's dying words. i can't breathe well without interrupt. palestine is being suffocated. buried alive in front of

a saw where they're bad eggs and rugs of joined hum. austin participated in the october 7th attack. maybe so were there agents in the f, b i in the c, i a who worked for russia and china and resulted in the deaths of many americans and other agents cooperating with us. yes, huge and spits oceans with tens of thousands of employees. have all sorts of folks in them that doesn't discredit the entire institution, particularly one is important as and run this needs or rejection of innocent palestinians during their nightmare that they did not create is something none of us should be complacent about. and let me add another dimension. if civil society completely collapses in gaza, if rafa is attacked where the population has swollen from 300000 people to one and a half 1000000 as israel's work lines on. how about a people start trying to escape by any means necessary? can the surrounding error countries avoid escalation? the countries that are joining is real, to undermine and run our steering into the abyss. and it's staring back. and that's

the bottom line. the the latest news palestinians are not only queuing to got bread and water, but they're also doing on the machine to receive their treatment from the ha. so the story, how rude works to the symmetry. there's no tunes done for them, but he's determined that the names will be never forgotten. with detailed coverage, the said was on the veterans tell us that many of them have either the implicit for the actual practical support of the is by the army. the a crane a father sunk line, a mother and children can this ton of the seas future when the sky is full the sign is without and

the decrease escaping the dog with outages in october 2023. these raising ministry of intelligence proposed the forcible and permanent transfer of palestinians from because the street, the people and power those into the history of spinning and displacement. and explores whether clearing the palestinians from because the occupied west bank is, is ready to transfer on and just not in america is a region of wonder i'm joy, tragedy and yes, of violet. but it doesn't matter where you are. you have to be able to relate to the cuban conditions. no country is a lie and it's my job to shed light on how and why

the the hello, i'm about this and this is the use on life from to ha, coming up in the next 60 minutes. israel pounds neighborhoods in northern gauze that already destroyed, leaving, displaced and hungry, palestinian scrambling for 60 united states. us the un security council. to vote on a temporary cease fire in garza and says, a major is really offensive and dropbox should not go ahead. these are not.