the of the victims themselves was when i saw there's a disconnect between what we are witnessing on social media versus what we're seeing on mainstream. it is always an attempt to frame at 2 sides of them, but there is no 2 sides to this. the western media does have a western bias who understand what they are looking to see out and raise. the listening post covers how the news is covered. israel is blamed for blocking a deliveries to god an accusation the government denies. so what mechanisms are in place for israel to ensure food and humanitarian assistance reaches the millions of people the you in says are at risk of starvation. this is inside the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoy them before israel's war. most of the 2300000 palestinians living and gaza were already dependent on humanitarian assistance. after 4 and a half months of a total siege, compounded by an intense bombing campaign, the situation is dire. access to aid has been a major aspect of the conflict, is real 1st blocking it, then maintaining type control over deliveries. and now it's accusing un agencies of failing to distribute it all while its forces attack the strip from the air ground and see. so how does commanded terry and aid entered gossip to me, treatment bidding go, explains humanitarian assistance for god that goes through a lengthy logistical process before it reaches the millions of palestinians, who so desperately need it. the step one, it needs to get to the buddha, gaza is a narrow strip of land on the mediterranean, bordering egypt and israel. hundreds of trucks wait for hours and sometimes days at these checked points. it's donna and cut off boots on him. step 2 of these really

inspections all united nations deliveries us up through the economy level asylum crossing. while non u. n. a is currently being rerouted to egypt and enters via the rafa crossing steps 3, the supplies, the offloaded on the console side of the boat to collected by humanitarian agencies sorted and then distributed across the strip. the all huddled at each stage at the board is, is really protest this have been trying to delay deliveries despite the government designating the crossings as a military zone. with security inspections are conducted by co get the coordination of government activities in the territories. a unit of the is rarely defense department. it decides what is allowed into gaza and what spend the same unit is responsible for overseeing is really policies in the occupied westbank. the international aid agencies have to be increasingly one to 5 minute gaza accusing

israel of blocking the entry of food and much needed supplies. but the head of co got unit has refuted the accusations saying this, the problem lies with the international organization processing and receiving the aid. there is no foot soft edge in gaza, yet families are eating animal feet and parents are skipping meals to ensure that children have something to eat. and the us food agency, a lifeline to millions of palestinians have suspended its operations. convoys have come under fire. despite coordinating memories with the israeli military to meet them, have been in co, out to 0 for inside story the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guest. joining us from london is andreas creek and associate professor of security studies at kings college london, who specializes in security and strategy in the middle east and occupied east jerusalem is every day the spokesperson for the international committee of the red

cross and israel and the occupied territories, the c r c has operated in the region since 1967. and it also raymond, your hanson is the secretary general of norwegian people's aid, which has provide instrument attorney and assistance in the gaza strip for more than 35 years. he's also a former norwegian state secretary for foreign affairs, a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story, sir, let me start with you today. could you explain to our viewers just how the i c r c is involved in the ongoing efforts to get more aide into gaza? for example. what exactly does the i c r c do as far as speaking with specific bodies. negotiating with specific is really government bodies and what kind of access are you getting? thank you so much for having me on. so firstly, i think it's, it's very important just to clarify that as the international committee of the red cross, we are not negotiating as such. but we do a closing gauge with policies to the conflict as well as other active other

institutions of states. and really, anyone who has influence or really the situation we are heavily focused on how to embed terry and diplomacy, which doesn't include speaking directly to other parties to these conflict, including of course, israel and him, us. and reminding them of 1st and foremost, obligations on the international humanitarian folk. as well as the occupying power in the, in the by and tells the entire truth. they have the, the obligation to ensure that civilians have access to it. that these things like food and, and say. * well, i'll show these are all part of our ongoing discussions with them and the relationships of the bills having been here for so many decades is there are obviously the i c, r. c has a very long history of difficult negotiations with warring parties around the world

. this is according to these long health principles of the organization. how does this compare? what we're seeing in jobs are the kinds of discussions you're having right now when it comes to humanitarian diplomacy. how much more difficult is it compared to other conflicts in the past? or yeah, as you said, we have worked in in many different, complex 11 a well, i think every conflict has it's our intelligence. but this particular conflict, as we have also has had a very intense, a few months or facilities. and it has severely impacted the people, the civilians on the ground in the you know, i'm not part of the supplies we have seen as well in this day and age. the very boss bred all the information on social media, which unfortunately can have an impact on states and old stories and all the organizations. but the situation and unfortunately doesn't have an impact at times

all the operations on the ground. as i said, we have long standing relationships with the law and the as well as applies to these conflicts and like someone to be to the content of that discussion as a, as a, just a discrete organization as that mutual organization that we are. we are regularly in contact with them consistently discussing all different aspects of this conflict of conflict out concerns what we're seeing on the ground. and we will continue seduce our raymond, what mechanisms are in place for israel to ensure food entry, mandatory and assistance reaches the millions of people that the you and say are at risk of starvation in concept? first of all, i think it's important to say that the over staff in ga saw they are us from other organizations, these of placed themselves and the most of our people that from the subsidy. and

that for the time being the resources is very limited. they are doing their best to step, setting up some like trains on the for women and children. and the, at the same time we've talked and that, but a workers are subjects to direct attack on the cell are also they have to introduce the amount of power in the sides. and so it's extremely difficult for the time being to do any monetary assistance on the s, the represent the papers from the site and go with men say that there are no food. so tags in golf. so that's of course free fat duffy is food. so that's in golf, saw an even before the 7th of october, 80 percent of the population in golf saw was dependent on

a i know with the blockades. um, just the rafa crossing and the kid and shot on crossing over a with a minimum capacity with the restriction, it sets itself, the bumping must stop on it. we have to open up for more sites. busy to bring in humanitarian assistance and the it's extremely difficult a situation for the people who lives on the day, the bathing small area, which is the presence of all the conflict. this is small, small area we to millions people in the biggest places, placement in the world. so we the, we, i'd say important to take something back on the best. well raymond, let me follow up with you about another point to the palestinian red crescent as warning that the number of people and gods have died as

a result of israel's deliberate starvation. and famine in gaza is what we're seeing now from your perspective. is it war by starvation and are israel's actions causing famine? and of course that's the consequence of the bomb being that's, that comes to granted. so the last go access score and many tyree in the the assistance be so. busy so the northern part of gail golf sized the basic game and all this military songs. so it means that this all solve difficult or almost impossible to, to go back to see if that is possible to find the hardest, some to define some food deficiency, a impossible to solve the top of it depends on the manufacturing assistance. andreas, we heard in dimitris report earlier, he was talking about the body known as co. got that short for the coordination of government activities in the territories. it's a unit of the is really defense department. i want to ask you more specifically, what is co gad and how does it work to?

right, i mean, co good sounds civilian. but as he already said, as a unit in the ministry of defense, it's run by the military. it's run by military officer. it's staffed by military officers and it's an excuse execution. it executes the body of the idea of to actually implemented occupation. so we have to understand that there is the occupation was supposed to be phased out of the also, it didn't happen. so this was sort of an interim body to facilitate the military side of the civilian side of the military occupation, but pulled up responses and on says to the military, it's part it's, it's altering to a military body in the central c'mon increments military strategy. so it's not a civilian body and a such also we see that is obviously responsible for all the choke points for all the flows of data of people of aid. 3 of goods, financial services, anything that goes in and out of the occupied territories, and that includes the west bank and gaza. and it's such as in many ways when it comes to gaza, that the present gatekeeper,

because it kind of keeps the gates and controls the most important, sharp, sharp points for aid. for people, for capital, for any sort of flow is going in and out of gauze on what ever goes through the roof of crossing, which they now control increasingly as well. it is also is usually not controlled by co good, but it's is punished when it goes through this. so they're trying to implement. they've tried to create a situation where they can control the flows of people in particular there as well . but it's absolutely a pivotal point and then a crucial element of military occupation and the fact that they control everything that goes to the arrows crossing as well as cut them a shuttle in the south. they consider an enforcing us that's very important. enforcing forcing the bro okay, means that they have very much not just complicit, but they're crucial part of that real k that crucial in controlling that territory . and that makes the adf and the military and the ministry of defense as well. a very much a,

a party that occupies the gaza strip even if they don't control the day to day operations on the ground. usually maybe in a, in a, in terms of illustrating that, i would say that co got is in many ways the national government. why, what, how much is doing domestically is more like a municipality government because it completely tied and controlled by what cold that is doing in terms of information flows, flows of people and flows of money and goods. so audrey is we can follow this train of thought a little bit further. israel is being blamed by many agencies for blocking a deliveries to gaza. of course is really government denies those accusations. but then you also have co get officials with co got who are saying essentially that the problem doesn't live with them. that the problem lives with international organizations. and they say that international organizations need to do more to insure the flow of 8 into gaza. how do you make sense of these statements from co got leadership saying that the un could do more to get aiden? i essentially pushing blame onto the un or other enjoys or agencies?

well, well, as your say, they're actually the ones in control. this is obviously a part of that information. complaint is a way of deflecting responsibility away from co. got co good has been on a, on a mess of information contained in the united states with some of the senior members going around speaking to people in saying that we're doing everything that we can. but it's not our fault. but in reality, considering that they are the gatekeepers, the prison gate keepers of gauze us in many ways, they do control what's going on. and it's, it's part of that information contained that we've seen in western capital is run by is really information networks to kind of blame the u. n. and you and agencies are saying they're insufficient. they're undermined by how mazda they have the they complicit and whatever is going on, whatever happened on the 7th of, of october. and so that's part of that information combined. and colgate is part, is integrated into that overall strategy, because that isn't as strategic. so it's still because it reports to the military, it's not a civilian institution that is next to the military. it is on spring to this same military strategy. and as right been said already before of military or unit turn 8

has become weaponized that become a tool of state promptitude of will fed by these readings and callbacks, therefore has become part of that same military strategy of attacking not just how much and the how much infrastructure, but also the civilians that live in garza and that's such program is very much completed in that. and i would see any of these kind of information co pays as part of a wider reference to this credit, international, international community and the especially and goes into you might turn into a community. raymond, i saw you nodding along to a lot of what andreas was saying, there is when you want to jump in, please go ahead. yeah, just don't do to jump in on the i think it's fair also the to mention the catastrophic game back of freezing outcomes to unwrap and rob the most responsible to the invest structure for receiving monetary assistance into golf. saw, i know we see the facing funds and right, it's not able to do de berg. they have also been very instrumental to the rest of

the amount of data in family because they had that infrastructure. so i know when they come to this are also a dealer facing the funds. so this is very, very that i'm not thinking that's also the part of the ongoing campaign that everyone who has to be involved in gaza from the monetary inside. if it's an jose, if it's you and they to blame, i mean direct to say that they are supporting groups that they are not supporting because they are doing different money, 7 assessments. and we trying to be the best thing the see very democratic society, which is also the best guess for trying to find a more peaceful solution. first, they also have to think through that because it may not be sustainable. if y'all just flushing in and look the way we don't have any control, i mean know that in gusts of these days a lot ordinary of course it's

a almost impossible to, to pervade. so we need access at the same time to see that we are partners not doing over those to trying to save lives he makes. did he create the goats innovation for the population in gospel these days? sarah, before october 7th, you had around $500.00 trucks of ada would enter gaza daily and, and even then, most of the population depended on humanitarian assistance. of course, things have grown much more dire and the drop off. it's been precipitous when it comes to the number of trucks that go in. everyone knows not enough relief, is getting into gaza. what are the priorities right now and why isn't it getting to the people who need it? there's definitely is, is not enough. uh, entry of agency, gaza right now for all of the international committee of the red cross. one of the main priorities is medical care, medical supplies and medical equipment. right now there is,

i would say north functioning health system in the and there are increasing concerns and increasing rates of things like infectious diseases on top of doors you have being rented and require ongoing check, ongoing dressing changes, you know, people already, li, a big product diseases and disabilities before the sentence about kind of before these escalation began, there are still people who require their regular medication. things like dialysis and intensive treatment team or therapy. i does now. they had him as pressure added to it because there are certain many thousands of people being severely wounded. hey, uh, explorers to the elements in gaza right now. living in tents in a very small area in about 20 percent of the entirety of the gaza strip. and this is really just a hot bed of public health concerns. i think there are many challenges and many

reasons why supplies are not reaching people. the thought is that there is such a a boss to res beads. your individual people, individual families, have different beats and to even be able to go with that and try and address each needs is, is a challenge, you know, itself, there of course, the security concerns our team has been impacted by security instead is not seen, was a fortunately in november, off by and phone, i know other 2 minutes hurrying organizations have, i've had similar incidents and the logistics there on dory. possible varieties in the old very few possible grades on the lease i rumble. there are the concerns, all unexplained, wouldn't it says my give this that, but people in the i'm not able to tell where it is. and then of course,

there's very little access to those to billions to us. do you know, sir? let me also ask you what you're talking about, you know, the logistics and how difficult it is and, and on that note, there are reports now that the u. k. and canada have started to air drop supplies to northern gods because they say it's impossible to get aid in there. from your perspective, is that a sustainable or efficient way of delivering aid? and is it really impossible to the extent that that's the only way that aid could get in? so it drops off something that we at the ice ya see, have used in the past, in the, in different conflicts around the world. and we're very pleased of course that this means that some and then those will receive the medical supplies, but i believe with drugs but drugs as well. jerry, come with that rain in our sales challenges. um, as far as i know, logistics, things like that that needs to be budge, areas that are not filled with people that do you know what, how old jackson,

the way it is 8 is a very expensive inside the house and stay and what would be for for multiple attempts, you know, there's always the, the full attention about things break on impact. it really depends on what's in these edge roles. is it the medical equipment that's very sensitive and is it supplies is a size of the price of flour? they all, they are in challenges when the air drops out on the, on the possibility of gaining access to the door. i don't know if i would call is impossible in a general sense, but space please. absolutely thing not right now. it's very cold places, very challenging. any organizations to, to 1st within those overtime for example, this is a website that there's all those logistics wiper rubble but unexplained ordinances, but is an active causeway design. still, they're still watching on going, there is no, no this off and broke. it's flying back. it's all very find and finding in

different areas. so you taishan is a huge challenge. what seems to be able to even even communicate that call place where they are. that's a, that's a really big challenge for anyone who is attempting to gain access to. now, andre is i want to explore a bit more about co god because this is a complicated issue and there is a lot of confusion about how exactly a gets in. we were talking earlier about co got being a body within the defense ministry. you were saying as part of the military structure from your perspective, would things be at all easier if something like co got were shifted under a civilian controlled structure or would that perhaps complicate things for their maybe even politicize the matter further? you know, in a normal country and a normal liberal democracy, i would say yes, this sort of agency should be on the civilian control. shouldn't be run by the military. when you look at, you know, the, the, what happened in our accountants. so just the approaches in iraq and i've got this

done executed by western countries. we kind of tried to shift governance back to a civilian body studies with the, the problem. and israel is obviously, and that has been quite a lot of debate in the, in recent months to kind of shift coal get away from the ministry of defense to at no, no less, no one less than the minister of finance. i smoked at you and selves obviously subtler. he's a convicted a is a convicted offender as well in that space and obviously is highly politicized. has a huge interest in making sure that co, that is a she no longer full pricing and that's will criticize and co get quite rightly for what it does as a gatekeeper to lead aide in to gaza. it thinks will be fall was if corporate was not controlled by the military, but would actually be controlled by a highly politicized ministry such as the ministry of finance, which would respond to a red collection voltage, who in his own views would love to continue with the ethnic cleansing, and kind of create a situation with thousands wouldn't no longer be able and allow to live in the gaza

strip. and when instrumental i forget for exactly that same reason ends with the military has been pushing back. raymond, there is confusion when it comes to reporting how much aid is actually getting into gaza. there seem to be a lot of discrepancies in the numbers that have been posted and reported by different bodies. how difficult it is to actually decipher how many a trucks are getting into gauze are these days earlier during the discussions today, we heard that usually before the 7th of october, it was $500.00 jacks each day. no, it's some days it's low tracks some other day it's up to 20, maybe 100 and then down the senior year old the day after. so the overall best fix there, it's that there is a lead. meet all the money period assistance is almost nothing. so i think it's the same even more the 1st week in

the theaters. and this is also the 3rd in this bar. we're trying to say that's when it's not that serious. it's not the blockade. it's stating, as we heard in the discussion today, there are no foot sucks in gaza. of course, well this the consequences 30000. i was, i've been killed. that's been killed since the 7th of october. mm. but it depends on about that. so it's limitation. it's difficult this but big. we know that it's coming raymond, so you stream it on, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we just have about a minute and a half left. i also want to ask you about the fact that when it comes to the concern about being able to operate in gaza and distribute aid we heard in the last couple of days at the world food program is going to be halting a deliveries in the northern part of gaza. how much concern is there about that

right now and, and do you believe that perhaps even norwegian people's aid will have to halt distribution of 8 in the north of gauze or because of security concerns to going forward? yeah, that's true. we hope that they've been, that we need some more international humanitarian bucker's seem to go outside. they think that there was a prosecutor to reason. they took the good news about the program that they have in the pipeline suited for to 2 months more to go uh, which is possible. the cd access is the main problem. no, we have to see that both and is crossing new goals. i think they must build, been caught, and the closing can be open. and at the same time we have enough focusing on kate. i'm showing them closing. we see necessary because it's limited access for the people who lives in golf. have to move from north to south and east to west, so we need to have more more access. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of

our guest, andreas creek, sir davies and raymond johonson. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just you or dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. r handle is at aging and side story for me and how much is human a whole team here, bye for now, the a verse, a nature color and meaning. with these really made it to yoke your patient front and center. nothing about this exemption is traditional or permanent or dis work place next to younger artists. it's a reminder that there is one unders way the bombardment i think that something they refuse to die. and substantive data seems to like quite

an openings edition, only to be closed after the war. and as it drags on menu on these paintings, maybe a survivor of causes or african narrative from african perspectives. the inter company to nickel this tim rush, i do show documentaries by african filmmakers from rwanda and democratic republic of congo. andrew c r e z on if i need to go, i'm on the drive on and reinventing cost on a new series of africa, direct on how to sierra vista medical facility in the man incidents capital. how to him is a single room that provides health care for dozens of people every day. and it's run entirely by volunteers. for dance health sector is needed destroyed after 9

months of conflict between the army and the parent minutes for your rapid support forces. d. u n says 70 percent of hospitals around the country aren't functioning. i study business administration but came here because most medics have left the capital. i take care of distributing the medicines. we have 570 patients who come to get medication for chronic illnesses. minor emergency operations are sometimes performed here as well. and the center also receives patients with gunshot wounds or shrapnel from an artillery strike, serving as a life on so many invest. 16 volunteers say they'll continue to do what they can to help those left to believable by the conflict. the latest news as it breaks, ukraine has made vast improvements to the defenses around its major cities. with detailed coverage, the former president is expected to appeal this decision, but it's just one of many legal issues he's facing in the run up to the november

election from around the well, the rising ground water is contaminated with sewage. less than 6 percent of the homes and suite them are connected to the government sewage network. the the latest victims of these rails were on guns that children rushed to hospital to strikes on the central part of the strip, at least forcing people the hello. i'm darn jordan. this is obviously a red light from the host that's coming up. we have watched the system that's it completes a ration of a health system we have supported for decades. we have watched our patients and our colleagues, the kills. i'm named the head of doctors without food as close as well as well and

gaza without rooms and accuses the un of deliberating. lots of millions of dies.