that was the history of palestinian displacement and explores whether clearing palestinians from because the occupied west bank is, is ready to transfer on and just the israel is blamed for blocking a deliveries to gauze and accusation. the government denies. so what mechanisms are in place for israel to ensure food and to mandatory and assistance reaches the millions of people the un says are at risk of starvation. this is inside the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june before israel's war, most of the 2300000 palestinians living and gaza were already dependent on humanitarian assistance. after 4 and a half months of a total siege,

compounded by an intense bombing campaign, the situation is dire. access to aid has been a major aspect of the conflict, is real 1st blocking it, then maintaining type control over deliveries. and now it's accusing un agencies of failing to distribute it all while it's forces attack the strip from the air ground and see. so how does command a terry and aid entered gossen? dimitri, it made me think of explains humanitarian assistance for guns that goes through a length a logistical process before it reaches the millions of palestinians, who so desperately needed. the step one, it needs to get to the buddha, gaza is a narrow strip of land on the mediterranean, bordering egypt and israel, hundreds of trucks wait for hours and sometimes days at these checked points. and it's donna and cut them both on him. step 2 of these really inspections all united nations deliveries asset through the economy level asylum crossing. while non

u. n. a is currently being rerouted to egypt and enters via the rafa crossing steps . 3, the supplies are offloaded on the causes side of the boulder, collected by humanitarian agencies sorted and then distributed across the strip. the all huddled at each stage at the board is, is really protest this i've been trying to delay deliveries despite the government designating the crossings as a military zone. with security inspections are conducted by co get the coordination of government activities in the territories. a unit of the israeli defense department, it decides what is allowed into gaza and what spend the same unit is responsible for overseeing is really policies in the occupied westbank. the international aid agencies have been increasingly one to 5 minute gaza accusing israel of blocking the entry of food and much needed supplies. but the head of co got units has refuted the accusations saying this,

the problem lies with the international organization processing and receiving the aid. there is no foot self engine garza yet families are eating animal feet and parents are skipping meals to ensure that children have something to eat. and the us food agency, a lifeline to millions of palestinians have suspended its operations. convoys have come under fire despite coordinating their roots with the israeli military to meet you and didn't go out to 0 for inside story the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guest. joining us from london is andre as creek, and associate professor of security studies at kings college london, who specializes in security and strategy in the middle east and occupied east jerusalem is every day the spokesperson for the international committee of the red cross and israel and the occupied territories, the icy r c has operated in the region since 1967. and it also raymond, your hanson is the secretary general of norwegian people's aid,

which has provided humanitarian assistance in the gaza strip for more than 35 years . he's also a former norwegian state secretary for foreign affairs or and welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story, sarah, let me start with you today. could you explain to our viewers just how the i c r c is involved in the ongoing efforts to get more aid into gaza? for example. what exactly does the i c r c do as far as speaking with specific bodies. negotiating with specific is really government bodies and what kind of access are you getting? thank you so much for having me on. so firstly, i think it's, it's very important just to clarify that as the international committee of a right across the i'm not negotiating as such. but we do a closing gauge which parties to the conflict as well as other active other institutions of states. and really anyone who has influence or really is situated.

we are heavily focused on how to embed terry and diplomacy, which doesn't include speaking directly to other parties to these conflict, including of course, israel and him, us. and reminding them of 1st and foremost, a obligation on the international humanitarian book. as well as the occupying power in the mind tells the entire truth. they have the, the obligation to be simple, that civilians have access to it. that these things like food and say, well i'll show up. these are all part of our ongoing discussions with them. and the relationships of the bills having been here for so many decades is there are obviously the eyes here. so he has a very long history of difficult negotiations with warring parties around the world . this is according to these long health principles of the organization. how does this compare? what we're seeing in jobs are the kinds of discussions you're having right now when

it comes to humanitarian diplomacy. how much more difficult is it compared to other conflicts in the past? or you, as you said, we have worked in in many different complex 11 a well, i think every conflict has its own challenges. but this particular conflict, as we have also has had a very intense, a few months of facilities. and this has severely impacted the people, the civilians on the ground in the you know, i'm not part of the supplies we have seen as well in this day and age. the very boss bred all the information on social media, which unfortunately can have an impact on states and an old stories and all the organizations. but those are the situation and unfortunately doesn't have an impact at times. oh, the operations on the grounds. as i said, we have long standing relationships with the law and the as well as applies to

these core planes and like someone to be the content of that discussion as a, just a discrete organization as that mutual organization that we are. we are regularly in contact with them consistently discussing all different aspects of these conflict of conflict out concerns what we're seeing on the ground. and we will continue to reduce our raymond, what mechanisms are in place for israel to ensure food and to mandatory and assistance reaches the millions of people that the you and say are at risk of starvation in concept. first of all, i think it's uh important to say that the over staff in golf saw they are us from other organizations displaced themselves. and most of our people that from adults have cd and that's for the time being. the resources is very limited. they are doing their best to set something up,

something like trains on the for women and children, and the, at the same time. we've talked in that but a, the workers are subjects to direct attack on the cell are also they have to introduce the amount of power in the sides. um, so it's extremely difficult for the time being to do any monetary and assistance on the as the representative is from the site and go with men say that there are no food. so tags in golf. so that's of course free event bessie. if they stood the shock that's in golf saw and even before the 7th of october, 80 percent of the population in golf saw was dependent on a i know with the blockades. um, just the rafa crossing and the kid and shot on crossing over a with

a minimum capacity with the restriction, it sets itself, the bumping must stop it. we have to open up for more sites. busy to bring in humanitarian assistance and the it's extremely difficult a situation for the people that lives on the day, the bathing small area which is the put on some all the conflict. this is small, small area we to millions of people in the biggest places placement in the world. so we the, it's important to take something back on the best. well raymond, let me follow up with you about another point. the palestinian red crescent is warning that the number of people and gods have died as a result of israel's deliberate starvation and famine in gaza is what we're seeing now from your perspective. is it war by starvation and, and are israel's actions causing famine?

and of course that's the consequence of the bumping that's, that comes to granted. so the last go access score a many tyree in the, the assistance of the soul. so the northern part of gal golf sized the basic game and all this military songs. so it means that this all solve difficult or almost impossible to, to go back to see if that is possible to find the hardest, some to define some food deficiency, a impossible to solve the top. it depends on the manufacturing the systems. andrea, as we heard in dimitris report earlier, he was talking about the body known as co got that short for the coordination of government activities in the territories. it's a unit of these really defense department. i want to ask you more specifically, what is co gad and how does it work to? right, i mean, co good sounds civilian, but as he already said, as a unit in the ministry of defense, it's run by the military. it's run by military officer,

it's staff by military officers and it's an excuse execution. it executes a body of the idea of to actually implemented occupation. so we have to understand that obviously occupation was supposed to be phased out of to also it didn't happen . so this was sort of an intern body to facilitate the military side of the civilian side of the military occupation, but co got responds and on. so as to the military, it's part it's, it's offering to a military body in the central c'mon increments military strategy. so it's not a civilian body and a such also we see that is obviously responsible for all the sharp points for all the flows of data, of people, of aid, of goods, financial services, anything that goes in and out of the occupied territories. and that includes the west bank and gaza, and it's such as in many ways when it comes to dollars of the present gatekeeper because it kind of keeps the gates and controls the most important, sharp sharp points for aid for people, for capital, for any sort of flow is going in and out of gauze on what ever goes through the

roof of crossing, which they now control increasingly as well as is also, is, is usually not controlled by co good, but it is a, is punished when it goes through this. so they're trying to implement, they've tried to create a situation where they can control flows of people in particular there as well. but it's absolutely a pivotal point, and then a crucial element of military occupation and the fact that they control everything that goes to the air is pressing as well as cut them a shuttle in the south. they consume and full thing. and so that's very important. and focusing forcing the bro, okay, means that they have very much, uh, not just complicit, but they're a crucial part of that. but okay, that crucial in controlling that territory. and that makes the adf and the military and the ministry of defense as well. a very much a, a party that occupies the gaza strip, or even if they don't control the day to day operations on the ground, usually maybe in a, in a, in terms of illustrating that, i would say that co good is in many ways the national government why, what,

how much is doing domestically is more like a municipality government because it completely tied and controlled by what coal that is doing in terms of information flows, flows of people and flows of money and goods. so audrey is we can follow this train of thought a little bit further. a israel is being blamed by many agencies for blocking a deliveries to gaza. of course is really government denies those accusations. but then you also have co get officials with co got who are saying essentially that the problem doesn't live with them. that the problem lives with international organizations. and they say that international organizations need to do more to insure the flow of 8 into gaza. how do you make sense of these statements from co got leadership saying that the un could do more to get aid and essentially pushing blame onto the un or other enjoys or agencies? well, well as your say, they're actually the ones in control. this is obviously a part of that information. complaint is a way of deflecting responsibility away from co. got co good has been on a, on

a mess of information contained in the united states with some of the senior members going around speaking to people in saying what we're doing everything that we can. but it's not our fault, in reality, considering that they are the gatekeepers, the prison gate keepers of gauze us in many ways, they do control what's going on and it's, it's part of that information component we've seen in western capital run by is really information networks to kind of blame the un and un agencies are saying they're insufficient. they're undermined by how mazda they have the complicit and whatever is going on. what ever happened on the 7th of, of october? and so that's part of that information component code. it is part of integrated into that overall strategy because that isn't as strategic. so it's still because it reports to the military. it's not a civilian institution that is next to the military. it is on spring to this same military strategy. and as raymond said already before, of military or unit turn 8 has become weaponized that become a tool of state profit tool of wolf. i buy these readings and co back, therefore is become part of that same military strategy of attaching not just how

much and the how much infrastructure, but also the civilians that live in garza and, and that's such target is very much completed in that. and i would see any of these kind of information co pays as part of a wider reference to this credit, international, international community and the especially, and goes into your mentor and a community. raymond, i saw you nodding along to a lot of what andreas was saying, there is one to jump in, please go ahead. yeah. just don't do to jump in on the i think it's fair also the to mention the catastrophic game back of freezing of funds to unwrap and rob most responsible to the invest structure for receiving monetary assistance into golf. saw, i know we see the freezing funds and right it's not able to do de berg. they have also been very instrumental to the rest of the amount of turn in family because they add that infrastructure. so i know when they come to this are also

a de la increasing the funds. so this is very very that i'm not thinking that's also the part of the ongoing campaign that every vaughn who has to be involved in gaza from the military and sides. if his angels, if it's you and they to blame, i mean direct to say that they are supporting groups that they are not supporting because they are doing different money, 7 assessments, and we trying to be don't find us things that seem very democratic society, which is also the best guess for trying to find a more peaceful solution. first bill, so have to think through that because it may not be sustainable. if y'all just flushing in and look the way we don't and the control. i mean know that the in gusts of the space a lot ordinary of course it's a almost impossible to, to pervade. so we need access at the same time to see that we are partners

not doing our bus to trying to save lives. he makes him good to go see the ration population in gospel these days. sarah, before october 7th, you had around $500.00 trucks of ada would enter gaza daily and, and even then, most of the population depended on humanitarian assistance. of course things have grown much more dire and the drop off. it's been precipitous when it comes to the number of trucks that go in. everyone knows not enough relief, is getting into gaza. what are the priorities right now and why isn't it getting to the people who need it? it definitely is, is not enough. uh, entry of agents and gaza right now will also be international committee of the red cross. one of the main priorities is medical care, medical supplies and medical equipment. right now there is, i would say north functioning health system in the and there are increasing concerns and increasing rates of things like infectious diseases. on top of doors

you have being rented and require ongoing check, ongoing dressing changes, you know, people already, li, a big for diseases and disabilities before the 7th of i've tried it before this escalation began. there are still people who require their regular medication. things like dialysis and cancer treatment t my therapy. i does now, they had him as pressure added to it because there are certain many thousands of people being severely wounded, expired as to the elements in dollar. i now living intense uh, in a very small area in about 20 percent of the entirety of the gaza strip. and this is really just a hot bed of public health concerns. i think there are many challenges and many reasons why supply them not reaching people. the thought is that there is such a, a boss to res,

obeys your individual people. individual families have different dates as it even be able to, to go with that and try and address each needs. is it a challenge you know, itself there of course the security concerns our team has been impacted by security instead is not seeing was a, fortunately in november, off by and phone. i know other 2 minutes harry and organizations have i've had similar incidents and the logistics there on dory. possible varieties in the old very few possible grades on the lease. i rumble. there are the concerns, all unexplained, wouldn't it says my give this, that the people in the i'm not able to tell where it is. and then of course, there's very little access to doors to billions to us. do you know, sir? let me also ask you what you're talking about, you know, the logistics and how difficult it is and, and on that note,

there are reports now that the u. k. and canada has started to air drop supplies to northern gods because they say it's impossible to get aid in there. from your perspective, is that a sustainable or efficient way of delivering aid? and is it really impossible to the extent that that's the only way that aid could get in? so it drops off something that we at the ice you all see have used in the past in the, in different conflicts around the world. and we're very pleased of course that this means that some and then those will receive the medical supplies, but i believe with drugs. but for us as well, it's very come with that rain in our sales challenges. applying to logistics, things like that. that needs to be budge, areas that are not filled with people that do not have all just in the way it is. it is a very expensive inside the house and stay and it will be for, for multiple attempts. you know,

there's always the full attention about things break on impact. it really depends on what's in these edge roles. is it the medical equipment that's very sensitive and is it supplies is a size of price. oh wow. they all, they are in challenges with the air drops up on the, on the possibility of gaining access to the door. i don't know if i would call it impossible in a general sense, but space. ringback absolutely not right now. it's very cold places, very challenging for any organizations to to 1st have been no. uh overtime for example. this is a website that there's always logistics wiper rubble, but unexplained ordinances, but it is an active causeway design. still they're still watching on going there is no, no this off and broke. it's flying back, all stereo fines and fighting in different areas. so you new taishan is a huge challenge. what seems to be able to even even communicate that call by where

they are. that's a, that's a really big challenge for anyone who is attempting to gain access to. now, andreas, i want to explore a bit more about co god because this is a complicated issue and there is a lot of confusion about how exactly a gets in. we were talking earlier about co got being a body within the defense ministry you were saying as part of the military structure from your perspective, would things be at all easier if something like co got were shifted under a civilian controlled structure or would that perhaps complicate things for their maybe even politicize the matter further, you know, in a normal country and a normal level democracy, i would say, yes, this sort of agency should be under a civilian control. shouldn't be run by the military. when you look at, you know, the, the, what happened in our accountants. so just the approaches in iraq and i've got this done executed by western countries. we kind of try to shift governance back to a civilian body. faddie swiftly. the problem and israel is obviously,

and that has been quite a lot of debate in the, in recent months to kind of shift co got away from the ministry of defense to at no, no less, no one less than the minute. still finance a small to to in selves obviously subtler is a convicted a is a convicted i'll send as well in that space and obviously is highly politicized. has a huge interest in making sure that co, that is a she no longer full pricing and that's will criticize and co get quite rightly for what it set does as a gatekeeper to lead aid in to gaza. it thinks will be fall as if corporate was not controlled by the military, but would actually be controlled by a highly politicized ministry such as the ministry of finance, which would respond to a radical likes voltage. who in his own views, would love to continue with the ethnic cleansing and kind of create a situation with thousands wouldn't no longer be able and allow to live in the gaza strip. and when instrumental i forget for exactly that same reason. and so i, the military has been pushing back, raymond,

there is confusion when it comes to reporting how much aid is actually getting into gaza. there seem to be a lot of discrepancies in the numbers that have been posted and reported by different bodies. how difficult is it to actually decipher how many aid trucks are getting into gauze are these days early reading the discussions today? we heard that usually before the 7th of october, it was $500.00 checks each day. no, it's some days. it's low tracks some other day. it's up to 20, maybe 100 and then down the senior year old the day after. so the overall perspective there, it's that there is a lead, meet all the money period assistance is almost nothing. so i think it's the same invoice or the 1st week in the theaters and this is also the 3rd in this bar. we're trying to say that's when it's not that

serious. it's not the blockade. it's stating as we heard in the earlier the discussion today. there are no foods. so tax in gaza. of course. what is the consequences? $30000.00 i was i've been killed or that's been killed since the 7th of october. mm . 80 percent, but it depends on that. so it's limitation. it's difficult dyspeptic. we know that it's coming, raymond saw me. yes, raymond, i'm, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we just have about a minute and a half left. but i also want to ask you about the fact that when it comes to the concern about being able to operate in gaza and distribute aid we heard in the last couple of days of the world. food program is going to be halting a deliveries in the northern part of gaza. how much concern is there about that right now? and, and do you believe that perhaps even norwegian people's aid will have to halt distribution of 8 in the north of gaza because of security concerns to going forward? yeah, that's true. we hope that they've been,

that we need some more international humanitarian, but there seem to outside we think that that was supposed to go to reason. they took the good news about the program that they have in the pipeline suited for to, to months. more to go uh, which is possible, but uh what city access is the main problem? no, we have to see that both 8 is crossing near gothic they must build, been caught, and the closing can be open and not the same time we have enough. i've also got to get them shut them closing. we cease necessary because it's limited access for the people who lives in golf. have to move from north to south, um, east to west. so we need to have more more access. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest, andreas creek, sir davies and raymond, to johonson and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website under 0 dot com and for further discussion,

go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash age a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x r handle is ad aging inside story for me and how much is human a whole team here, bye for now the what constitutes exempt. so we generally talk, you will see that i want you to start with just the fence rose to what happened as independent. we want peace, we want the education my wants to freedom. we don't have to lead them in different countries policy and it's going to get 50 percent representation and accountability and benefit knowing that was and service the claimant. then you're saying you don't have your reports with it. i should just trust that unity auston

this 5 times the cool that used to produce outstanding gentleness and i'll just the integrity in the pursuit of truth legally passed. barge, you can, cooking is a radio baseball tea tool which everyone should carry from breakfast to teams, day tourism and eco anxiety therapy. why do they come here? religion, politics, finance, or a forklift maybe discovers how people to campaign in the ends kind of the point on generation coming soon. and then i just like i told you, so dealing with this feeling on alex's era, applicant, narrative from african perspectives, the competitive vehicle. this timber service and to show the documentaries by applicant filmmakers from rwanda and democratic republic of congo. andrew cl easy on the drive on

and reinventing a new series of africa, direct on how to sierra what constitutes exempt. so we generally talk, you were saying, i want you to start with just the fence right as to what happened as independent. we won't be, we want the education my want, so we don't, we don't have lead them into something in policy. i'm going to get 50 percent representation and accountability and benefit knowing that was and services this placement. and then you're saying you don't have your reports that i should just trust the community. austin is 5 times the cool that used to produce outstanding generally some elders, the integrity in the pursuit of the holding. the powerful to account was we examined the us each row in the outer 0.

the israel attacks, too crowded refugee camps and central gauze are that far from the south is also a fit, an overnight strikes at least 60 people having kills the you're watching, i'll just 0 life or my headquarters in delphi and getting you navigate to also coming out the psychological injuries have led children as young as 5 to tell us that they would prefer to die the head of the.