so the history goes kind of spinning in displacement and explores whether clearing palestinians from us as a and the occupied west bank is, is range to transfer on and just tens of thousands that on both sides and millions of ukrainians forced from the country as a rule and says it's the year we examine what marshall hasn't changed since it's full scale invasion, the header that welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle: it's the 2nd anniversary of the beginning of the bloodiest conflict in europe since wells will to tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides, have been killed. thousands of civilians, a dead,

a millions of ukrainians. i've been forced out of the bottom down towns and cities, and there's little sign of an end in sight. russian president vladimir putin remains defiant, saying they'll be no peace until his countries goes a met. ukraine is again appealing for more donations to a place dwindling supplies of i munition, the you signed off on his latest package with $54000000000.00 earlier this month. but the us congress cannot agree on one. it is election yet in the us, on republicans arguing have a whether to extends the military lifeline. the delay could put more pressure on the time. so is this a rule that can be one who is benefiting and why might put in set his sights? next, we'll get to our guest and just a moment, but 1st this report from nora, con, 2 years of the war in ukraine began. bost areas remain under russian bombardment of

russian forces, art, phone thing in the southern region of her phone. and that's when you did tax on odessa you claims lifeline. the green exports russian forces also kept at the eastern city of of div carlos week. the biggest game since the long and bloody bass will football move. last may the i with military tree pulling under russian control . many question. what is the game for president vladimir putin? on february 24th 2022 russian tanks rolled in to ukraine but failed to capture the capital. since then, pollutant has repeatedly said he doesn't want to occupies ukraine. but what he initially described as a special ministry operation became a full scale war international allies and they to back to premium president, logging me. is a lensky, providing billions of dollars worth of support and weaponry?

the us, the european union person and of the allies that mostly targeted russian money with close to $17000.00 functions and the freezing of around health of russia's foreign currency results. but to team is making clear every day, every hour as we approach right now, that he does not want to negotiate peace. he wants to complete his conquests. he has said it over and over again, bought the us president joe biden is struggling to convince congress to post a $95000000000.00 for an a package that includes funding for ukraine. and it's dwindling. munitions stokes 20 to the house of representatives is stalling. the legislation you crave fee is putting will use a delay to his advantage on miss lynch demilitarization from my understanding. it doesn't require capturing the entire territory of ukraine rather than

taking territory quickly. it's better to grind the ukranian troops on this question whether there's a stalemate on the battlefield. this with ukraine foldable. then russian gains by november 2022, but also areas held where we captured by ukraine. by this month, not much had changed, but the death toll increases by the day already opened. 10000 civilians killed along with more than half a 1000000 minute, 3 casualties on both sides. and more than 6000000 ukrainian refugees, old questioning, how much longer will the wolf grind on laura com, the inside story, i'll just say around the one that spring, you know, guess now and, and must go pebble folk. and how is the defense list on form,

a co list for the russian newspaper, the via gazette, time from england, the 2nd largest city stuff on wolf is a professor of international security at the university of fleming. and she's usually in the ukrainian port of odessa box. joining us today from london is kind of celeste, security studies program director at the non governmental unless call center your cranium prism of a boom. welcome to all of you. how does today marks another glenn milestone for the people of ukraine? how is the 2nd done of us? we have the full scale invasion being recognized that in ukraine. and what's the mood amongst people the, the you know, they move very complicated to be guessing the want. how do you have the determination of the people to continue or defend things they are allowed to fighting for their freedom and serenity. as we finally realized, that is the 2nd ceiling, the understanding that base where is not

a short war and that unfortunately the demands from the pregnant are becoming just more and more so realistic. and the search feeling is the a suit and tie this less one has because to leave 2 years out of the cost of threats under the cost of stress under the cost on to shelling. but these tar and this is all time. this one you will lane insane or a kind of do anything that is personally also psychological. tired is because you can't understand how such your work. crimes can happen in the meat of europe in the 21st century. and you are just trying to find the 2nd breeze, how to continue fighting. that's one who just don't have all the choice. and the base understanding of the existential work is something what the whole country sharing doesn't matter, which i'll pull it to sharon or which i told you you are supporting. and how is today being marked in ukraine. honda, a darren, definitely. first of all, the set commemorations that is calibration, of all those civilians and military killed during these 2 years. um,

these numbers are quite high. and the same time we have quite a high level delegation arriving to keep including the head of the european commission. now we have the either shape of a tally of canada or belgium of several other countries. so that is a demonstration of the support. but as you can see, that is the 1st of all vehicle ration of those who died. and there is discussion of this call to unite our efforts, how to united the efforts of those countries understand what is needed, the rules based order and the human rights and the value of the live. how to united their efforts to continue the fight. pablo, the russian defense minister is visiting forces in ukraine. what's more, all like that, especially on the front lines in these winter months where there's very little movements just and also facing a well, there's a way of doing the reporting from the freshman friend line. uh,

officially it said that everything is fine and there is, i would say, a free show you for yeah. after the capture of, of day of the russian forces are advancing and the world's best thing for special operation is progressing a satisfactory of their of course, the problems and the troops did not get their, their money, and the 5 the fighters on the front line, her being there for a long time, those we have survived and they down or maps and home there, at least in big numbers. there is no good reputation and that's of course, a problem for me around. but for the time being, the russian forces are fighting successfully a priest on the face of it. uh, russian soldiers are tenacious. oh as the premiums are 2 and uh verify this

continuing. so if there are problems with morale, they are not critical right now at all. the russians have just recently taken a few, as you mentioned, a dave car back in may also by much how much of a hollow victory is this though, for russia? because both of these cities have been out suddenly decimated by the fighting and it took a long, long time to overcome them to well this is part of the war of attrition that's happening there for the west. more or more or most for more than a year already. when the overall trump line doesn't change much, there are pitched battles where one sides of the hopes that the other is going to begin to break up. that them are out of those that are on the receiving end, and those for retreating. right now,

it's the premiums of the morality opinion. troops will snap and that their existence will begin to disintegrate. that's not happening. so these are battles not so much for the particular city, though. the crew is important because it's basically the suburbs of the big city, and that's the capital of the done boss. and pushing the opinion force as away from the the nets is important because if they were just simply in the suburbs, up to this as mostly right now, treated as a propaganda boost for the upcoming presidential election next month. the pressure. ringback on the winning side of president bush is now much appearing in public and actually projecting at the the feeling of victory, and that everything is going in the right direction. so that's make,

it makes this a battle for, again, important psychologically and politically for a step and pedal mentioned that war of attrition. if we just bring up again on our screens, the map of ukraine and rushes and fonts is on the front line. but in the east we can see that the front line, the has moved very, very less. so the gains a small would you say this point? the boat is as a stalemate, and i think it has been, it is still made for quite some time. i mean, there was the initial, the russian gain on, in the months of the was that was followed by the ukraine and pushed back into some of the n g o, warrantable, or 2022 bucks. and then basically over the cost of 15 months or so we have seen value, right. and yes, um, as part of just stuck, i mean the form of the con is on

a public and take you to leave a few months of for the crime scene. but it had shifted scar to find the lines maybe 530400 or 500 readings all is and in that sense, for the problem right now, i think for both sides, this stuff is in no cost involved in terms of my child in terms of a capital t is that both sides are sustained basically from just consolidating the phone line. so the, all the romans, how did this, what of state is this description of stalemate has been use quite a lot was saying of the pairing quite a lot when it comes to now describing the situation in ukraine. is this a would you agree with when it comes to describing the state of the war is probably not. and one of the reasons is that when you think about the war of attrition, oh boy, the soul mates you and can only so some parts of the land operations for what from the day won the base were, was the symmetric hole and definitely understandable that russians had

a more forces on the wrong. so were there that it was possible to have the active defense out from both sides. however, if you move to the situation, even off to the new here, russia last uh, additional mega shapes. and that's comparing that ukraine almost doesn't have the navy now after the initial day. so the, we're also within the last week, russia last night in 4 ton jets, including the 15th and 18th to they had only 3 or 4 for the whole russian situation . there over 2 minus 2 of them. we also see that while she's not controlling the black c anymore, they are losing and low to able to move in cream came, that is the cheapest one region of the south and frog. and the amount of div call that's quite an interesting, you know, puddle describe it as the success or a case called the rushing media presented. but just imagine russians try to catch it. come sure the see to you for 10 here since 2014,

the last battle happened for approximately 45 months. as of the intensity of a fighting, the town was just the 1000 people and rusher received in killed the approximately. so to solve those for capturing the so small town, if one solve them and they needed only by completely destroying the cd, so a beef as a tale doesn't exist anymore. it's not even the ruined since most the ashes over there. can you named something like these as the successful operation of the strong arm forces? definitely, again though, here i would absolutely agree that was more for the media consumption before the presidential elections in russia. that's why when you ask, is it the stone made definitely to not because the fighting discount, putting wherever will we see a change of the tactics and strategy on the routes to see the real changes of the situation? i expect he has a bed. why sprinkler will have a search and there was shop link on the forces made the change on the strategist because of the new commander of the premium armed forces and to the beat of the new

. what can you to expect? think of the big changes of the big. d levels, that's something that we will see probably by the native spray. but how does the reality as you go down, let's say russia out ways ukraine, when it comes to artillery, i munition by 5 to one. and the ukraine is running low on munition supplies from the us looking shaky. so how does the, how does the coming in look when you're looking at it in terms of how you can make advances on the battlefield? are i sure we need to divide it into 2 questions 1st as well? the russian capability is because, so yes, they can use current k 5 times more, but you also can see how much they can produce and they're using the word that would be a losing. so the question where the they are producing. so the question is, where would they be sustainable in these and we were,

they had lost here the periods when the showing for the day from the ukranian and russian side was absolutely the same. then when we had to dispose of delivery on demolition to your brain since november, definitely to russia again, manage to culture and to have the upper hand. but that's why you create and use more drones. that's why we use the seeds rows. so we're trying to use the different types of the warfare tax in know, just showing again the chalet. uh, the international support is extremely important for ukraine. and sure it is not only the united states lesson cold of europe and union countries really increase their support in emanation and pledges for the more in the nation since awesome. when they realize that to create and can become just a hostage of the domestic policy is in the united states, but fewer results of the question of partnership that is important. rush. i received a weapons from north korea and from iran to congress under the essential is to congress and the black police of ever seeing. but the deliberate, for example,

knows korea 1000000 all the shells to the russians to duration. even the democratic world is not able to support ukraine in the same way. it's not. 8 about russia, ukraine. this also demonstration, the a weakness says for example, for the asia pacific partner. so for waiting and looking how they will add to in case then you aggression will happened there for example. so that is definitely the time now why a lot of solutions for you to make decisions. holiday would like to see themselves and their supports to your prey. so we would love to have these photos as what we have a nice windsor and some of the front lines. so that's definitely you has made significant effort to keep up weapons in a deliveries to the ukraine. but to most extent, kind of plugs a gap that's currently being left by the us. in the small question of time, i would say that it's a question or phone capability has been significant couch we investment in the defense industrial base in europe. so german company is my client,

my telephone song. i have seen massive new government contracts for it will take some time for the europeans to actually accept the rate of production positive. what was the pleasure of buy on the countries to deliver the 1000000 shows a junior queen by the hand of small orange sends that i think by 4 folding tubs on purpose as the march feedback. but this doesn't mean that those shelves are not eventually materialized, but it will take time to do. the real challenge now is for ukraine, just basic may be able to survive until does it increase electricity, will flow into the country. that's from us for you. most one thing time for you, raise your credit, but the germany direct. so that said that there is a sense of urgency without a sense of action. what do you make of that stuff on? well, they be, be sort of the same right to it. uh that you have the phone on your p and you just

want me to send in my or can you read us? uh, that'd be perfect. so the last 2 years, so that would be as much support staff as needed for as long as it gives me, that's all for your credit. but if that doesn't go to your uh, empty rugs, then the end up in a situation that ukraine's not because it doesn't have the manpower cannot defend to the city like of the cost. but so give me for the deluxe. the um, any additional uh the equipment or just a recall washing the trucks on. and i think the engine oil change potentially going to be a real problem. and the question then actually is no need to be on no longer talking about your crime. finding it difficult to join them, but really the questions i'll be jawad extends the rest connection. even able you claim non 0 is the whole problem. if we look at the flow of weapons and ammunition

from the russian side, is it sustainable, given the shoes, number of sanctions that of being placed on the russian government. and the russian economy. also, sanctions on north korean and sees that are deemed to be involved in sales or of course functions on a ron, how long kind of rushes to stay in the will. a logo in the presence of facilities pressure tends to stay in the war. and there's not only production has been boosted, though not to the extent that was during the cold war capabilities when the soviet union could really mobilize its industry to me for increased production of armaments. and the nations which even increased time is very high. that the system has being lost to a large extent, but still there's enough,

there still are a reserves where from the cold war of some different conditions being used. so yes, russia can sustain their problems with producing a new hot that capabilities which the west can produce. and can send to ukraine if it does, doesn't do that. and most many cases, russia defense industry attached to the cold war for the 3rd years, the fast since the end of the cold war has been using western materials, special material, special steals, and prospects, and trying to components in producing weapons. especially part of that. and that's right now, bit of a problem though, there are different operations to smuggle in this stuff. there are reserves, but again, there are problems,

especially in the hard to and the production. but basically, yes, russia can continue on the present face. and that brings right now, uh, optimism to the cram when they're talking about possible forward mode. was that the rest of the boats and said that this is a rush and safety and that was followed up by his for a former prime minister on that one time president mentioned did. yes. then there's the trans mr. republic pro, ration right down the sandwich between ukraine and mount though, where there's a small russian garrison actually. so there may be ideas of trying to make up pushing this out as well that materialize or not. what that will have to see when the summer fighting season comes me. as you mentioned before, honda lensky replaced his top. come on to any of this month. i mean, the old mom is considered

a national harry for many given that he led this to yeah. bottle against rushes outright. invasion with the new guy in place is ukraine expecting to see? 2020 full b the? yes, it goes on the offensive. so let's see. we're waiting now for the uh, clear strategy if you would have a definitely republic call from general source k opportunity to have a sound, the baseline being commanding of the infantry of the land forces. so should be in the, in the, during these 2 years, also in the front line, there's behind the operations to break the tube on hark of regions. so that's not a that she will have a significant change of the attack change that we're having is still the same approach or false outcomes inc, russian supplies and having both active defense and the symmetrical warfare against structure. and it goes with the sense that if we kind of our number in terms of for

many chanel purse, so we need to make it to all, for the russian situation more difficult to fight, no longer with the external sanctions this limit. but as we see, there are too many spheres where we need the sensors to really limits russian capabilities, but also by targeting via production. placing the storage facilities, for example based nights, it was the strike withdrawals against the, the metallurgical plant uh, in the uh, images. and that is approximately 20 percent of russian production with the steel steel imports and for the adoption of the different type of the immunization. so all of these try the to see the very large, the oil depend on those. that's also part of the premium tax you. how to i symmetrical counter the limits russian capabilities on the ground to have supply for the for so, so, okay, right. so from what options are still available to help ukraine? what are we likely to see this? yeah,

from the world. i think of basically 2 different scenarios. the can see want us to the rest. finally purchase money, but small so. so going to off really dental's donald is all for your client and that phone. so how do i, it's just indicated rules to nick showed had too much more sophisticated, wrong way and track funds to enable ukraine to which is trying to be in july shaw and see how you're going to disrupt production capabilities, disrupt supplies, and really doing that. you know, in a highly targeted uh fashion, in the end i think the, the, the question is it's not going to be necessarily events. your client will be able to, to change a hoshal on the battlefield, such as cancer may make on the continuation of the wall just to cost of washer. so that the convention we're gonna get uh to

a settlement that will bring adjusted stable piece of fornia craig's private. and that's the 2nd scenario. that's the one that, that i'm more worried about at the moment is that most of the knowledge get this kind of list on our support and phase, you know, potentially have, uh, president trump power of attorney for the why and charles, and then your audio and certainly jim, i'm pretty sure that that right um and that's where the potential i mean that uh the west uh, west of support to the extent that we have certainly seen that in 2022 lynch tri county suites. so something ought to continue a problem. just the last a question to you in the last minute that we have is putin a full interested in a supplement to the ukraine? oh, yes, of course. i mean it's understood that they're actually taking over over your brain is not free with possible both sides, right. the whole break,

they're still making go mode while maybe next summer. well, they are not it's, it's a to see, it's not going possible to predict, but some kind of cease fire based on the so called a free and the scenario a ceasefire. more or less on the prism define of control seems to me quite an option, but okay, now you know what we do it right before back. all right, well we will leave it the for the moment. many thanks to all our guest today for a very interesting discussion, pedophile going to stuff on move and how to celeste and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that's all just there. dot com for further discussion. do you guys want facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. if it was that during the conversation on x all homeless as a j inside story. from me laura kyle, i'm the whole team here. bye for now.

the, the highest branch of chinese government, the national people's congress, is missing in they didn't outline. it's amazing. but as the economy fails to recover from the pandemic, what's called the cushions of an increasingly weak outlook. the rest of it was taller. the latest development record numbers of chinese asylum seekers are traveling to the us. that's double many take a dangerous route through loss in america. a gang of people points that have done that in the 1st of a 2 part investigation. 101 east meets the chinese, my friends risk and you know, the american dream on out to 0. discussing the defining issues of our times, what the military, what government, what multi national doesn't want access to this hyper hyper,

hyper powerful. they are exploring the very real dangerous unchecked artificial intelligence part of a i hate the laws of the war. we're talking about a technology that is built on the basis of concentrated surveillance. power like the world has never seen the studio b, p a. i series on a just a, you know, versus a nature color and meeting with these really made it to your, to patient front and center. nothing about this exemption is traditional or permanent or dis, work place next to younger artists. it's a reminder that there is one under his way the bombardment i think that something they refuse to die. certainly they refuse to die quickly. and openings edition only to be closed after the war and as it drags on menu on these paintings, maybe a survivor of causes or the

the hello on top of the crisis has been use our line from coming up in the next 60 minutes and is riley attacked, targeting a 100 forces, a launched fight and fight law here in northern cancer is offended in groups of guns are due to israel's war, a 2 month old by the donnas officer. he was rushed to hospital to over come mail nutrition, us and british 5 digits. pound who the vices after an american ship was attacked on the.