great, wrong deep, but the devastation of the country's precious ecosystems may take the longest to hear the people in power documents the environmental impacts of the fight, and follows the premium for prizes investigators as they collect evidence of what they described as eco side. ukraine ground 0 on the jersey, a heavy fighting and the democratic republic of congo is forced hundreds of thousands of people to flee for their lives. the conflicts between the government, the m. 23 fights has escalated in recent weeks. so what's driving a list and from peace be a chief. this is inside the hello. welcome to the program on a tree instead of getting

a humanitarian crisis is developing in the democratic republic of congo. an escalation and fighting between government forces and the m 23 on the group in the northeast of the country is fueling regional tension. and it's led to hundreds of thousands of people arriving in the regional capital, goma and such a food, water, and shelter. the situation is expected to watson when you and please keep us withdrawal from the country at the end of the year, leaving many vulnerable at risk of salvation and violence. so what's driving this conflict? i'm term lost in peace, be achieved in the democratic republic of congo. i'll just here is catherine. so a sentence, this report from a camp to displaced people in coma. we are on a comfortable display. see for here in go mazda several. com cost to across the c t. o. we have been talking of people who have been sleeping this conflict between government forces and, and we,

we have also been talking to the aid would cuz i was saying that they are overwhelmed about the needs which are so many, 1600000 people have sofa been displaced and since this conflict started about 2 and a half now, the possible now between the rebels and government forces is in a town called sac to this town is very significant because it's a gets way seems to go my to about to 25 kilometers away from goma and government forces are trying to push the rebels away from that area that is useful for them. there's been a lot of international pressure on all sides of the thing and go back to me. the

ation is going to be very interesting to see how that plays out, because f lots by regional sales. and what, what this means is that people in conflict this, i'm going to continue suffering with no and insights, customer and story inside story. the as well to get an idea of how the conflict is likely to one soul that son to the minister of communication and media spokesman for the government of the democratic republic of congo. patrick, well, yeah, joins us from the capital contrasts. i could tell you with this patrick, once you'll government strategy for dealing with the m. 23, is the strategy it simple for us? the infinity to doesn't exist. infinity tree payments off from them govern match the present made that point 2 years in our last meeting in the front office and can mean that necessarily about the government. the company's department is working and

doing which way we can continue dream payments in one of the humble which needs to your staples, what we have to do, what creates witnessing the past, the tools it's anthony to fighting each was a one academy using ease as to 1st started a new scene, a shilling, some myspace, a game shifting, some markins. that's what, what we have seen last week at the present. mid that point to year, we want to bring back the piece in this part of the or cd we paint. but if you want to go back to go through this, i need to web one that i'm step was big thing the as we meant we made, especially in the run that i'm 2722 as no power to decide those thoughts blamed on . because for the end of $23.00, they've been was clear, they have to be these honored. they have to be, to accept the government and then they have trucks. everything will be stationed that they own the issue, we stand, we want name, we, we're friendly, we should resend that on my student to year. but the m 23 does exist. you've just

said that they need to be dissolved. what is your government doing to start or to advance a political settlement here and who would be involved in between the steel government? what even extra. ready for them 23 as well as i was telling you the full m 22 doesn't exist as one man, girlfriend and then using buffet and the most important for us to talk directly. we funded and talking to the school, but it's clear that they did the development position. what change on that? sorry. that's why they're present, i think is dropping tomorrow for one to to meet again. was the place up levin's or what was the dimension united you said the about between the present just stick it in your prison gave me to see what else i can do to start uh effective the uh into mounting the agreement. anthony tree is just a small part of the conversation. is a proxy use it right. want him to, uh, to be like the face of the baltimore,

the on the waiting list. or those mastercard, the actual meeting. guess commodities populations do are. those are very innocent. people, so the uh, with the insurance carrier be going to talk, we find that to know why present gave me is continued to do. an awful position is continue, what is and on. i mean our results is that the main reason doctor as well, and there to present one is to stop this time and for what is your company but then doing for the displaced people in the northeast of the country and east of the country. the people caught up in this fighting. but what's your government under contract people, you know what, what fear, what you are doing, especially for peeps or used to use. one of the things we can do is to bring back to this because if you want to solve the issue of distressing this test, this present paypal is to get them back in. there was big just barrier the way they can continue. what they've been doing before is activities that think of assistance

we, i think we some of our partner, especially in united states, each move to provide e mind at the end for dr. is blasted by the want. seeing here is to make united states and order with some countries news, but a sanction, a guess or 19400 so they can start useful. and then from there they move in. when we make sure we get back, this will be the issue. what are they needing before? what i'm doing now is to provide some product is to provide some assistance. but these are, these tend to want to be a really a solution for those people. they need to go back in their respective area. and we think that you want to reach this one for store we've, despite the actions from funding governance inside our country will really be we'd be able to do that. all right, somebody's expedited for being with us. that's perfectly either in control. so thank you so much. so we've heard what the government in contrast to has to say about the conflict. now let's hit some of the perspectives. lawrence,

couldn't you across, is the political spokesman of the rebel march 23 movement, also known as m. 23. he jones just now from the eastern democratic republic of congo from cape town, south africa with joined by crystal oldest. and the journalist of africa report from the veteran africa commentator joined from nairobi by fred bama, who is the executive director of over tele, an independent congress research institute, focusing on politics, governance, and violence. let's start with your lawrence. what did you make of what we heard from the governments? folks posted there, our inventory, 3 just puppets. a bit of random government. this is the lack of knowledge of. yeah. and the company they're supposed to, yes. the editor, the free, is going to get this to that sign it that limits listed yes. a gun on december to do in the we've got to the community vote for the brought municipal united nation subject

after july and all the international partners we went to teach us. so we spent 14 months of that. yes, you got the present. it just took a base for us to discuss it all for that and to give it up to the lady at the additional sound of the yes, the governor should come today say to the public of wonder we are who are these that how it goes. we've been asking yes, the government to discuss to have it done, to resolve the causes of the cause that's making the country housing the circle is a lucky and be and to have it find the beast you're not going to. let's bring in a crystal or something in case what do you make of, of, of what you've heard so far? crystal of adrian a south africa has about 3000 troops. federal heating to the d,

r. c. they've seen a specialist unit. and already we've had body bags returning to south africa. in fact, just the suite came to soldiers that were killed in the move to attack the bodies arrived, so it's becoming a domestic issues. but of course, the south african troops a positive aside to mission to the d. r. c, which consists of south africa, my law we and times in the year. and i have spoken to south african diplomats and officials, both within the army and diplomatic officials. and they add them in south africa as part of a peacekeeping mission. they want the d, r. c, to have peace, but cannot afford conflict. the continent cannot afford conflict. now, one could argue at times of africa as might be perceived as having a not eve kind of viewpoint of peacebuilding use makes the sooner we get is time to bring different policies together. but so that's what gets been involved in the d r c. since the 1990s, in fact, for president nelson mandela in 1998. um, you know,

heard the calls of lowering could be less senior, but lake norman could be low cost and he had in fact, you know, dealt with through wanda and somebody who, you know, want to to seem to be done a full space. and so for south africa, it is absolutely pertinent that this piece in the d r. c. piece in the east of congo. they of course, um, as part of southern which is a, you know, a mule. um, one of the old regional bodies in africa. i'm so this is a sided mission and they want ultimately for the d r c and the one to come together and find a peaceful solution to what's happening in the east for from a. what is the pricing itself looked like now in the east of the country? is there a coordination between the, on the groups that are fighting in both keeping who's, who's facing? who right now? i mean, how powerful is the and 23 is a fighting force compared to say, the congolese ami? i mean, who is fighting?

who is a, is a good question. because on one side you have to call this government. of course we have the support of of this and ignition uh of uh, yeah, huge range of for me this is called the uh, was an endo and also the, the, the un keeping force and, and missionaries. and the other side. you clearly have um mtc jobs and um, and according to menu, so uh, several, if no 1000 of, of running troops there at the sound of the underground. but i think um, just to emphasize what i've heard and we're about to st. oh, so the, the, the, the cost request to use it because specify, so this valdez is on its own people and who have been displaced by media. and since the beginning go of this conflict. and people who wants peace and people who was lasting, peace and attorney, show 10 page that we bring back uh,

bring us back to as we've seen in 2012. and as we are seeing right now and, and did the, what go to the government and the other group are facing. and you said you're seeing around grandma is more than entity fee. it's is randa. and it's is probably other countries that are supporting the i'm 20 feet and that's uh, making all this conflict becoming slow the uh, the less it quickly is conflict but more and more general original config lawrence view and special representative to the region briefing, the un security council reported, but serious human rights violations of being committed in areas on the m 23 control with at least a 150 people killed since november all m. 23 fights is a part of that. what are you doing to stop it? so basically have to perfect those so many things that have been said

about these action against damage and to create which i know go ahead without the motor, basically on track. the dream gets it in the afternoon to for you, went to the next guy for the full. i'm good and today 10 years you have 256. i'm groups according to not to mention the stuff is due to all the others of you talking about the end of buttons, but great, but we did it on the populations were done by the groups that i'm now part of the d . c. on that record and what that ended up, i'm groups that when this school supposed to fight and take the d i c. so basically the straight they have a drug, if it is not a sports support for all this crap. okay, that's been set by french. we, i have about 5, okay, find out about the most important. what about large, what about the 80 s which has been accused of,

of human rights violations. how much control of the 80 asked us b. m. 23. have in the area is understandable because of much, sometimes smithing, sometimes different, suspecting not. but if i understand, but in the area, the answer to frequent pro, there's no guidance. office of human rights abuses, the human who i visit happened. yeah. so you're not going to get a yes. we're staying in a go uh where i'm doing an interesting people where you're for the live by the, by the but it, but for, for this process. oh, well, that's bringing crystal. once again crystal you, you mentioned the fedex and the forced the south african force on, on the ground, how to regional international actress contribute to or either exhausted, basically, mitigating the conflict. i mean, what is south africa's view? is it committed to bringing peace to the region of war, or who replaces this you and force which is on the ground right now is just used to

leave at the end of the to absolutely, i do and, and that's, you know why these also some confusion until, you know, when ease the forces the wing forces withdrawing, how will the to missions work in sync with another? because of course, as i mentioned beside the commission, consists of south africa attends india and malawi. so i think so firstly again, um, so it's of the 1st time that south africa is in the d r. c. it's been they since post a hot date um, 1994 of course and 1998 was told to present nelson mandela. and then that was also part of the commission, the 23rd team that actually broke the policies together, and that's the spokesperson had mentioned um, but i think this time around, they facing much more the foot to right. and as we put um from the various parties, and these are concerned domestically adrian that, um, you know, as much as we have well trained troops on the ground that might not be enough.

we've already had body bags arriving back in south africa. we've also had a few weeks ago. so you know, some of our most trained, highly trained army officials also coming under attack when they were flying a helicopter to you in hospitals. so um this concern domestically that sought after just entering it to rain and as all previous speakers said, that could you now engulf the entire region. however, solid african officials are still adamant that they are part of a southern commission. they've been tossed by the regional body to be part of the schools to bring about peace, south africa as long time and see what the agenda of peace folding up getting different bodies together. but i think it's a bit more complicated. we've heard from governments spokesperson, we've heard from human rights organization that the human rights violations happening on the ground just absolutely. it's the of, of stating with continuing of displacement. and so i think the concern is that he's

the south african troops reading of the lead this mission. what's malawi intends in the and being more importantly, do they have the financial resources and the adequate equipment to actually deal with the different drivel groups that are operating in the east for it? how. how dangerous is the situation right now? could it escalates into a original as well? i think we, we, we oh, most yeah. um we have um, you know, as a key enrollment of rolanda, there is a um, an additional uganda involve sounds after you guys have casualties and burundi is very involved. so. ready we, i think we uh, already and uh, on the, on the eve of, uh, of original war. and there is a need to de escalate. so they, they quickly, but i also like to uh to say something going on, the human rights violations and the human rights situation. and you said

d r 6. i think its careful for everybody. uh, no matter what. so the visions i'm seeing is the sites and nursing. yeah, i see that sam 20 for you. has committed a lot of uh, of human rights. our mission this uh in this um, condition of the movement as well as in 2013 terrace winter were there. uh we, we had, we had um, demarco that day committed in industry share and bundle. um there is a lot of schools that are being attacked there is uh, hospitals that been looted um and especially the women and kids who are dying because of course it was as of this conflict is enough for 4 people in this region to they, they've been in during this for years, i think it's time for this country to and, and it's time for m p t for this group does keep recycling themselves. seems at

1996 at least to to end different ending lawrence, what would it take for the m $23.00 to sit down with the government in contrast to is it interest of integrating one of them? we always ask for the da da as the government or they're not really the same that for, for, for don't to just that we need to have that data. yes. the government to discuss with them out to solve the causes of the confidence that either or the time to sort of what country. but i have to go back to one of the gentleman just say just now this or this stuff. just a dental thing. this is that just put back on the voice of the government because the answer to, as i say, was in a heads up from the 2013. and we came back here or the crowd was that done before that done by the people who are now in the d. c. government army. so we're talking

about to share. so as you say, it wasn't, it was just one that score. wasn't it to ship the over any does that don't, don't do feet. i've done that kind of stuff that let me know. it's not every day. so be sort of happy to, to please call him on international for me to come and stop old people. the message, whether your mind is done in question is a bus to go to. so many people are sleeping outside the d. s. a government is supporting from every single day, like a digital moisture given to the women and the people. this is what we're talking about. they're really things which is what i've done. so we are recording an international community to act right now because of the conversation. democracy is really huge and the more for do you want to come back on that there's a lot of evidence of mess graves in, in uh, in your, on the decision. and we can go on and on. and there was also, it was also every day. so a few days in the before and oh,

this is a lot of the entity i said use uh no, that's not exactly what i'm talking about. there is also evidence of, of, of i'd be telling you keep things in, in areas where empty for you control and i'm not saying that the go go with his government is perfect and doesn't mean human rights violation. but in, in the, in the, in this call, feet key, any entity fee is responsible for many invest. if human rights or less than creating an area. that is, it is controlling what is, what is what makes this situation complicated. it is also that people are tired of this. um, these are awesome. every time people have uh what they call the roots causes of golfing to what they go back to taking to taking guns. and every time it's

actually put the truth. they made people the intent if we are trying to, to, to predict at some point people empty for you and other, who needs to stop. uh, going back to, to uh, military. it was supposed to be, this is a ways of, uh, of reserving the program. and the physical actually the way to protect defense communities in d. c for uh, for, for, for long and not on the put nothing that's within its risk. the very, very people. yeah. pretending to defend this, this gonna be best today. and that's gonna bring a piece tomorrow and maybe one less thing for the school sick as. busy as is from san to pay and, and the 1st enter defeat every time line that we throw its suppose to feel to sand that the does look uh and it. so i decided again to go, i think the colors governments, and the goal is people are a right to say,

ronda should be push and pressure to read the magenta to be that well, but i'll be here. i'll come back here and just a moment on, on this issue of orlando trust crystal up to get a 3 drawer to a close, a lot of the some potential avenue useful or good. okay. lawrence, very quickly. i'll give you a 30 seconds. okay. yeah, i'm saying to the gentleman, i replied to the gentleman that's fleming stopped outside the country. we are going to drive. we'll have all the n g o is that guy here? that's not his in every single day. that did yes to go. all right, he's the one going to be hands in a moment. we stood as so many times that it, yes, the government. so the judge bought time to get some money. they won't crash. i'm trying to free quote many, many times. well, people to come to do as drugs and suggestion on cuz she, we are printing what we're saying go. we're going to go to get the doors to get a ship or to get it. they never came to this claim. i just the force of the,

just the government and put my gotten to, oh yeah, into august. that's where defend you. in all the organs. as far as the gospel will get the crystal at some potential avenues, retrieving lasting, peace and stability in the region, are all there any a have what? what obstacles are standing in the way? well, listening to the inter needs we spoke smith spokesperson, adrian. you can clearly yeah, there's a lot of obstacles, but i think on the serious note that, you know, from the south africa's a vantage point, presidential candidate use be elected president of the country. and he has cooled, that he wants peace in the east. he's also of course accused of wanda on supporting that in 23 rebels and we know the one that's denied this um, but i think, you know, from the vantage point from a down south, it said there's a belief that you have to bring the weaving parties to give us it has happened before it's happened between the the team of what happened,

the 1998. and so they do use the use that you have to bring these parties together to get lost the piece. however, the troops, the southern commission will be on the ground for one year. we've already had casualties. one can only hope that the resources will be big for both the malawi in pennsylvania and the south african troops. and of course, a mission of a peace, a peacekeeping mission is to do kind of get some peace. but so far we've seen more to attacks. and so one would hope that the different parties will actually realize that the construct con, continue and the human rights violations con, continue. and that last thing piece is the over the answer for that part of the world. i'm afraid we've, we've got a minute left or they were when the, which of course continues to, to deny that it supports the m $23.00. anyway, what, what's the, what's it going to take to bring peace to the region and for when to, to with drawers support for him. 23 ronda to be very simple. it's,

i think it needs to be patients, but by many countries that type of thing. they, they, they, u k, for as the us, china now and, and, and other countries, that's what can present to the government. but to debate piece to the i see it is not only about sitting in the table and saying, because they that's that they've been tested several times since the beginning of the door. what's the commons governmental, you have to do it to it's in the going to it needs to be in a non that's can do to those kind of things and do the same time work on, on root cause is in, in the time if it's not in time of peace unfortunately, the situation, the intent if he doesn't know, given those a lot of space for, for a constructive discussion among chapters and i think for that to happen. um the, the support that's attempting to print anything right now should sees. thank you

all for being part of our programs with a lawrence kind of your car, crystal oddison and fred bama and it's part of the beginning, patrick. well yeah, yeah, and thank you for watching. so you can see the program again at any time by going to the website or i'll just do a dot com for further discussion. you can join us about facebook page, which you'll find a facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story. and you can join the conversation on x, i handle the h i inside story from me, adrian for the team here. let's see again, bye for now. the me a good study and then a short vis or a i like uh

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