spread our pasha lives and making sure that you're hearing the stories from people in places like how is fine lydia young region. and so many others. we go to them, we make the effort. we care. strict heavy fights again. the democratic republic of congo is forced hundreds of thousands of people to free for their lives. the conflicts between the government, the m. 23 fights is escalated in recent weeks. so what's driving list in terms piece be changed, this is inside the hello. welcome to the program. i'm a tree instead of getting a humanitarian crisis is developing in the democratic republic of congo, an escalation and fighting between government forces and the m. 23 on the group in the northeast of the country is fueling regional tension. it's led to hundreds of

thousands of people arriving in the regional capital goma in search of food, water, and shelter. the situation is expected to watson when you and please keep us withdrawal from the country at the end of the leaving many vulnerable at risk of salvation and violence. so what's driving this conflict and can lasting peace be achieved in the democratic republic of congo? i'll just here as catherine, so a sentence this report from a camp to displaced people in coma. we are on a comfortable display. see for here in go my best several com classes across the city. we have been talking to people who have been sleeping this conflicts between government forces and, and we, we have also been talking to, um, aid would cuz i was saying that they are overwhelmed about the knees,

which are so many, 1600000 people have sofa being this displaced, i seen this closely started about 2 and a half now the whole now between the rebels and government forces is in a town called sac to this town is very significant because it's a get to way in to go my to about to 25 kilometers away from goma and government forces are trying to push the rebels away from that area that is useful for them. there's been a lot of international pressure on all sides of the thing and go back to mediation . it's going to be very interesting to see how that plays out, because f last by regional sales. and what, what this means is that people in conflict this,

i'm going to continue suffering with no and inside customer and story inside story . the as well to get an idea of how the conflict is likely to one soul that son to the minister of communication and media spokesman for the government of the democratic republic of congo. patrick, well yeah, joins us from the capital. contrast that good teddy with his patrick once your government strategy for dealing with the m 23 is the strategy. it seemed bored for us, the anthony to doesn't exist. infinity tree payments off from them. government match the present, made that point to your, you know, less meeting in front office and can mean that necessarily about the government. the committees department is working on and doing which we can continue. dream payments in one of the humble which needs to your staples. what you have to do, what creates witnessing the past, the tools it's anthony to fighting each was

a one academy using ease as true. i saw them. you seen a shilling, some myspace, a game shifting, some markins. that's what, what we have seen last week at the present mid that point to year, we want to bring back peace in this part of the or cd we paint. but if you want to go back to go through this, i need to web one that i'm step was big thing the as we meant we made, especially in the run that i'm 2722 as no power to decide those thoughts blamed on . because for the m $23.00, defend was clear, they have to be these honored they have to be to accept because the 9th and the depth trucks, everything will be stationed, that the only issue we stand, we want name, we, we're friendly, we should resend that on my student to year, but the m $23.00 does exist. you've just said that they need to be dissolved. what is your government doing to start or to advance a political settlement here and who would be involved in between the government?

what even ations. ready for them 23 as well as i was telling you before, anthony, she doesn't exist is one, then go for an immense using profit. and the most important for us to talk directly we've funded and talking to those 4, but it's clear that they did the governor position. what change on that? sorry, that's why they're present, i think is dropping tomorrow for one to to meet again with the place of pains or what the dimension united you said the about between the present just to continue present gave me to see what else i can do to start uh effective the empty mounting, the agreement anthony tree is just a small part of the conversation. he's a proxy use it for a while and to be like the face of the not of all the reading or from the or those massacre, the aqua meeting. guess commodities populations, do i lose the very innocent people? so they all was the strongest kia be going to talk. we find that to know why

present academy is continue to do an awful position is continue, which is and on. i mean there are resources that the main reason enough for me as well. and there to present to one is to stop is dying and $400.00. what is your government then doing for the displaced people in the northeast of the country in the east of the country, the people course out in this facing. what's your government's under contract? people, you know what, what year, what you are doing, especially for peach storage, is to use one of the things we can do is to bring back these because if you want to solve the issue of distressing this test, this dressing table is to get them back in there, as parents, as far as the way they can continue, what they've been doing before his activities that they cover such as we, i think we some of our key buckner, especially in united states each. i'm going to provide e mind that the for dr. is placid, by the would seeing here is to make united states and order with some countries

news, but a sanction a guess or one and preventive. and so they can start useful. and then from there they move in. when we make sure we get back, this will be the issue for what are they needing before. what they are doing now is to provide some product is to provide some assistance. but these as these tend to want to be a really a solution for those people. they need to go back in their respective area. and we think that you want to reach this one for store because this but actions from funding governance inside our country will really be we'd be able to do that. all right, so buddies, excellent for being with us. that's patrick marietta in control. so thank you so much. so we've heard what the government in contrast to has to say about the conflict and alex here, some of the perspectives. lawrence, can you across, is the political spokesman of the rebel march 23 movement, also known as m 23. he joined just now from the eastern democratic republic of

congo from cape town, south africa, with joint part crystal oldest. and the journalist of africa report from the veteran africa commentator joined from nairobi by fred bama, who is the executive director of over tele, an independent congress research institute, focusing on politics, governance, and violence. let's start with the lawrence. what did you make of what we heard from the governments folks posted? there are every 23 just puppets of the random government. this is the lack of knowledge. both we are and the company that i spoke with us about. the editor, the free is a good one of these organs, this to that sign that yes, a gun on december to do, you know, we've got to. busy the community vote for the brought municipal united nation. so i think a lot of the international partners,

we went to the dresser, we spend 14 months of videos with the present. it just took it best for us to discuss it all for that. and to give it up to the lady at the additional sound of the yes, the governor should come today say to the topic of the one that we are who are these that how it goes with the yes, the government to discuss to have been done to resolve the cause it's up to cause that making country it has been a soccer. ready working and dig into how they find the last piece. you're not going to. let's bring in a crystal or something in case what do you make of, of, of what you've heard so far. crystal, adrian, a south africa has about 3000 troops. federal heating to the d, r c. they've seen a specialist unit. and already we've had body bags returning to south africa. in fact, just the sweet came to soldiers that were killed in the move to attack the bodies

arrived, so it's becoming a domestic issues. but of course, the south african troops, a part of a scientific mission to the d. r. c, which consists of south africa. i'm a law we and times in the. and i have spoken to south african diplomats and officials, both within the army and diplomatic officials, and they add them in south africa as part of a peacekeeping mission. they want the new york city to have peace but cannot afford conflict. the continent cannot afford conflict. now, one could argue at times of africa, and it might be perceived as having a not eve kind of viewpoint of peacebuilding use makes the sooner we get is time to bring different policies together. but so that's what gets been involved in the d r c. since the 1990s, in fact, for president nelson mandela in 1998. um, you know, heard the calls of lowering could be less senior, but lake norman could be low cost and he had in fact, you know, dealt with through wanda and somebody who, you know, wanted to seem to be done

a full space. and so for south africa, it is absolutely pertinent that these people in the d r c piece in the east of congo. they of course, um, as part of southern which is a, you know, a move um, one of the old regional bodies in africa. i'm so this is the siding mission and they want ultimately for the d r c and the one to come together and find a peaceful solution to what's happening in the east for from a. what is the pricing itself looked like now in the east of the country? is there a coordination between the, on the groups that are fighting in both keeping who's, who's facing? who right now? i mean, how powerful is the and $23.00 is a fighting force compared to say, the congolese ami. i mean, who is fighting? who is a, is a, is a good question. um, because on one side you have to go with this government. of course we have uh the support of uh, of the said the condition uh of uh, yeah,

huge range of for me this is because the uh, was an endo and also the the, the you and keeping force and, and missionaries and the, and the other side you clearly have um, mtv drops and um, and the quote inconvenience. so uh several if know, 1000 of a front end troops there at the end of the underground. but i think um, just to emphasize what i've heard and we're about to st. oh, so the, the, the, the cost request to use it because specify, so this about us is on people and who have been displaced by media. and since the beginning go of this conflict and people who wants peace and people who want the last thing as an attorney, as a temp is that we bring back uh, bring us back to as we've seen in 2012. and as we have seen right now, uh and,

and did the, uh, what's called a government and other group at facing. and you said you're seeing around grandma is more than entity fee. it says randa. and it says probably other countries that are supporting the i'm 20 feet and that's uh, making all this conflict becoming slow the uh, the less it quickly is. conflict, but more and more general original config lawrence view and special representative to the region briefing. the un security council reported, but serious human rights violations being committed in areas on the m 23 control, but at least a 150 people killed since november. all m 23 fights is a part of that. what are you doing to stop it? basically have to go ahead. as soon as the be said and is action against damage and to create which is not correct without the motor. basically on track the dream gets it in the editor and temporary it went to the next guy with high 44 votes. and

today, 10 years you have 256 groups according to not to mention the stuff is due to all the others of the talking about the end of buttons. but great, but we did it on the populations, were done by the groups that i'm now part of the d. c. on that record and what that ended up. i'm good to start when difficult supposed to fight and take the d c. so basically the straight, they have a truck, if it is not a sports support for on this crap. okay. that's been set by french we, i have about 5. okay. find out about any of the most important. what about lawrence? what about the adf, which has been accused of, of human rights violations? how much control over the 80 asked us, the m, 23. have in the area is understandable because of much,

sometimes missing, sometimes different, suspecting not. but if i understand, but in the area, the m center frequent pro, there's no guidance off of human rights abuses. the human, what i visit happened, the government contract areas were staying in a go uh where i'm to distribute to people where you're for the live by the, by the but it, but for, for this process. oh, well, that's spring and crystal. once again, crystal, you, you mentioned fedex and the 4th the south african force on, on the ground, how to regional international actress contribute to, or either exacerbating or mitigating the conflict. i mean, what is south africa's view? is it committed to bringing peace to the region? a lot or who replaces this you and force which is on the ground right now is just used to leave at the end of the absolutely, i do and, and that's, you know why these also some confusion until, you know,

when ease of the forces the wing forces withdrawing, how will the to missions work in sync with another? because of course, as i mentioned beside the commission, consists of south africa attends india and malawi. so i think so firstly again, um, so it's not the 1st time that south africa is in the d r. c. it's been they since post a hot date um, 1994 of course in 1998 was the one that presented nelson mandela. and then it was also part of the commission, the 2013 that actually broke the policies to give it and that's the spokesperson had mentioned um, but i think this time around, they facing much more the foot to right. and as we put um from the various parties, and these are concerned domestically, adrian that you're know as much as we have well trained troops on the ground that might not be enough. we've already had body bags arriving back in south africa. we've also had a few weeks ago. so you know, some of our most trained, highly trained, um army officials also coming under a tech when they were flying

a helicopter to you in hospitals. so this concern domestically that south africa's including the terrain and as all previous speakers said, that could you now engulf the entire region. how it was sought, african officials are still adamant that they are part of a southern commission. they've been tossed by the regional body to be part of the schools to bring about peace, south africa as long time and see what the agenda of peace folding up getting different bodies together. but i think it's a bit more complicated. we've heard from government spokesperson, we've heard from human rights organization that the human rights violations happening on the ground just absolutely at the of of stating with continuing of displacement. and so i think the concern is that if the south african troops really of the lead this mission was malawi intends in the us. and the more importantly, do they have the financial resources and adequate equipment to actually deal with

a different ripple groups that are operating in the east for it? how, how dangerous is the situation right now? could it escalates into a original as well? i think we, we, we own most. yeah. um we have um you know, as a key enrollment of rolanda, there is a, um, an additional uganda being involved. so i was i for you guys have casualties and burundi is very involved. so we, i think we uh, already, um, uh, on the, on the eve of, uh, of origin of the war and there is a need to de escalate. so they, they quickly, but i also like to uh to say something to him from the human rights violations in the human rights situation. and you send d r 6. i think its careful for everybody. uh, the rest of the additions and the thing is the sites and nursing. yeah, i see that sam 20 if he has committed low style of human rights. not admission this

uh in this um incursion of the movement as well as in 2013 and tentative. went through with there we, we had we had um, demarco that they committed in into share and bundle. um there is a lot of schools that are being attacked there is uh, hospitals that been looted um and especially the women and kids who died. and because of course it was as of these conflicts. um, it is easy enough uh for, for people in this region to they've been in during this for years. i think it's time for this conflict to and, and it's time for m p t o, this group does keep recycling themselves. seems add on to that to 6 of these to, to end different lawrence, what would it take for them?

$23.00 to sit down with the government in contrast to isn't interested in negotiating. it's uh the c o with us for the, the, the government, but they're not really the same that for, for, for don't to just that we need to have that done to the government to discuss with them out to solve the causes of the confidence that gave you all the time to sort of the country, but i have to go back to one of the gentleman just say just now this or this stuff . say dental thing. this is that just put back on the voice of the government because the answer to, as i say, was in a heads up from the 2013. and we came back here or the crowd was that done before that done by the people that are now in the d. c. government army. so we're talking about to share. so i'd say it wasn't, it was just one that score wasn't even ship the over any those that don't, don't do feet. i've done that kind of stuff. the limits. oh no,

it's not every day. so be sort of have to face according on international for me to come and stop both people, the message, whether your mind is done in question is a bus to go to so many people are sleeping outside the d. s. a government is important from every single day, like a digital moisture given to the women and the people. this is what we're talking about the really things with the gun. so we are recording an international community to act right now because of the conversation. democracy is really huge and the more for do you want to come back on that? so there's a lot of evidence of mess graves in, in uh, in your, on the decision. and we can go on and on. and there was also, it was also maybe the, so we'll see these in the before and, oh, this is a lot of uh, entity i said use uh no, that's not exactly what i'm talking about. there is also evidence of, of,

of i'd be telling you keep things in, in areas where i'm 20 fi controlled and i'm not saying that the go go with this. government is perfect and doesn't mean human rights violation. but in, in the, in the, in this call feet key, any entity fee is responsible for many and must save human rights or less than creating an area. that's it. so it is, it is controlling what is, what is, what makes this situation complicated. it is also that people are tired of this. um, these are every time people have uh, what they call the roots, causes of golfing to what they go back to taking to taking guns. and every time it's actually put the truth. they made people the intent if we are trying to, to, to predict at some point people empty for you and other,

who needs to stop the just going back to, to uh, military resources. this is a ways of uh, of reserving the problem and fee because actually the way to protect defense communities in d. c for uh, for, for, for long and not only put nothing that's within its risk. the very, very people. ready yeah, pretending to defend this, this going to be because today and they can not bring a piece tomorrow and maybe one less thing for this school seat as low as, as a, from san to pay and, and the 1st enter defeat, every time rolanda we throw it supports to him tend to feel to san that the does look ended. so this time again to go, i think the colors governments and come with these people a right to say run, that should be push and pressure to read the magenta to be that what, but i'll be up to you. i'll come back here in just a moment on, on this issue of orlando, but for us crystal, as we drove to a close,

a lot of the some potential avenue useful object. okay. lawrence, very quickly. i'll give you 30 seconds. okay. yeah, i'm saying to the gentleman, i replied to the gentleman, does, flemming stopped outside the country. we are going to drive. we'll have all the n g o is that guy here? that's not his in every single day. that did yes. to go. all right, he's the one going to be hands in a moment. we stood as so many times that it, yes, the government should be judge but time to get some money. they won't crash. i'm trying to free for many, many times. well, people to come to do is drug investigation on the sheet. we are printing more, we say got mobile, we're going to go to get out and do the us to get sure or to get the never came to our discipline. i just the voice of the jesse document and put my gun to, oh yeah, yeah, into august. that's where defend you. in all the organizations are close to the

gospel or get the crystal at some potential avenues, retrieving lasting, peace and stability in the region of all the already a have what, what obstacles are standing in the way? well, listening to the inter needs we spoke smith spokesperson, adrian, you can clearly yeah, there's a lot of obstacles, but i think on the serious note that you know, from the south africa's a vantage point, presidential candidate use be elected president of the country. and he has cooled that he wants peace in the east. he's also of course, accused of wanda on supporting that in $23.00 rebels. and we know the one that's denied this. um, but i think, you know, from the vantage point from a down south, it said there's a belief that you have to bring the weaving parties to give us it has happened before. it's happened, the 2013. what happened? the 1998. and so they do use the us that you have to bring these parties together to get lost the piece. however, the troops, the southern commission will be on the ground for one year. we've already had

casualties. one can only hope that the resources will be big for both the malawi in pennsylvania and the south african troops. and of course, a mission of a peace, a peacekeeping mission is to do kind of get some peace. but so far we've seen more to attacks. and so one would hope that the different parties will actually realize that the construct con, continue and the human rights violations con, continue. and that last thing piece is the over the on. so i'm for that part of the world, but i'm afraid we've, we've got a minute left a been around, which of course continues to to deny that it supports the m $23.00. anyway what's, what's it going to take to bring peace to the region? i'm for when to to with drawers support for him. 23 ronda to be very simple. it's, i think it needs to be patients, but by many countries that couple of thing. the, the, the u. k. a for as the us china now and, and, and other countries,

that's what can you present to the government, but to bring peace to the i see it is not only about sitting in the table and saying, because they that's it have been tested several times since the beginning of the door, what's the comments government we have to do. again, it's a, it's in the going to, it needs to be in and that can do to those kind of things and do the same time work on, on root cause is in, in the time that you committed, 10 will be sent for the net need a solution the antenna takes, he doesn't know, given us a lot of space for, for a constructive discussion among chapters. and i think that's what happened. um the, the support that the incentive 1015 right now should seize. thank you all for being part of our programs with a lawrence kind of your car, crystal otis and on fred bama. and it's part of the beginning, patrick, but yeah, yeah. and thank you for watching so you can see the program again at any time by

going to the website. i'll just do a dot com for further discussion. you can join us about facebook page, which you'll find a facebook dot com forward, slash h, a inside story, and you can join the conversation on the x handle the inside story from the adrian for the scene here. we'll see you again, bye for now. the the latest news as it breaks, ukraine has made vast improvements to the defences around its major cities. with detailed coverage, the former president is expected to appeal this decision, but it's just one of many legal issues he's facing in the run up to the november election from around the world. the rising ground water is contaminated with sewage, less than 6 percent of the homes and suite them are connected to the government sewage network. on counting the costs,

nobody wants to make in the developed nation. how will that affect frustrated, follows your palace fits into recession? can it re gain is ranking as the world's largest economy? costs cocoa prices a soaring and chocolate levels of feelings of change? counting the cost on i'll just data. what constitutes exempt. so we can talk here, see, i want you to start with just the facts rather as to what happened as independent. we won't be, we want the education might want to. we don't have to lead them into policy. um, it's meant to get 50 percent representation and accountability and benefit knowing that was and services the claimant reports. would that i should just trust the community off to the side, the cool that used to produce outstanding gentleness and elders. the integrity in

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