catch up with use as was, has with all of the stories have been following here inside stories coming off is going to look into views of the us veto at the united nations security accounts. something has been a don't story tonight will be back at the top of the hour. so to stay with us, the business latest is sponsored by interlock tuck. he's real estate consultant, the

base initial agents to be sponsored by interlock tuck. he's real estate consultant . the u. s as vetoed all 3 resolution and something new and security council cooling for us. the spot in the concept that since is well launched, it's war in october. so is washington miss using its veto power and also the counselors voting system need to change? this is inside story, the

to hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian. second 5 months of is really strikes on guns. and the united nations has failed to adopt a resolution calling for a 6 file. 3 votes have been held up a security council, but the united states has been to the old view and secretary general and 20 vitality as describe the veto as an instrument that's paralyzed the council from taking action on the strip. that's a sentiment the palestine signed by, so that's the u. n has also voice saying that american vito's of costs the palestinians, the lives the u. s. is one of the only 5 permanent members that can veto resolutions and it's accused of misusing it. is use of the fee to a hindrance to decision making in the un security council on disability. so the agenda of a select group of countries will bring in our guests in just a moment. but 1st the report from the coastal, i'm sure he's in october. the united states veto, then i have a back and broadly supported un security council resolution demanding an immediate

cease fire in casa so team of the 15 member council voted in favor for the united kingdom. that stained on the us said the initiative within the field with negotiations on the deal to free captors and instead of proposed as riser draft, we look forward to engaging on a text that we believe will address so many of the concerns we all share. a text that can and should be adopted by the council, so that we can have a temporary cease fire. as soon as practicable, based on the formula of all hostages being released, as this temporary cease fire is critical to getting aid into the hands of palestinian civilians who desperately desperately need it since, as well as well and also started in october. the us has vetoed 3 see 5 resolutions of the council. the u. k. upstate and getting all 3 votes, prussia,

upstate and in october, the un security council has 10 elected members, and 5 permanent members who viewed the 2 pallets the u. s. u. k, from russia and china were chosen as the permanent 5 after world war 2. for the to adopt a resolution. at least 9 volts are required in favor and no re toes by any of the permanent members. the u. s. has rejections for kohls, for the sci fi and casa, is raising questions about the uni lax republic of these countries. as long as the security concept is better lies in vito's, cost it, then it is costing the palestinian people that lives. there is no way except a ceasefire to be put in place. and even i said to them best that of the united states, that there is nothing that can prevent you. if you have cloud over is that i have a uni laptop sees vibe, put in place for as long as you want. you don't need

a resolution in the security council as well as well. and gaza has getting more than 30000 palestinians in the past 5 months. left to this is rarely strikes. i'm from the patients have displaced most of it's 2400000 people. and they have liquor, if any access to food, water medicine and shipped to the world health organization is boning of finding an outbreaks of disease. but despite the growing humanitarian crisis, do you want security council has failed to unite on calling for the immediate ceasefire. let me close, i'm sure the, i'll just see the full inside story. that's bringing all panel of experts from here. your originally by richard gallon and the you and director of the international crisis group. the think tank providing analysis of global conflicts, the policy makers of academics from montreal,

which on by milan rabbani as a non resident fellow at present of a conflict and human to terry and studies he's worked on published any issues with you and agencies and joining us from the gun we in wales is con ross from the u. k . diplomats of the u. n. he's currently working on the upcoming un summit of the future. gentleman, welcome to you. well, richard, let's start with you. is the un security council fit for purpose? in 2024. what was the thinking back in 1945, but it was decided to have these 5 permanent seats on the council. and to what extent just the one guys are now forcing the security council to run up against it's, it's do political limitations as well. the security council has never truly fulfilled its original purpose. it was meant to be a global policing agency and the us associates and partition the permanent members were meant to be the 5 policeman who would hold crises in check

and avoid a return to major power war. ever since the 19 forty's, the council has failed to live up to that vision because of the tensions between the big powers. that was a period of to 1989 when cooperation improved considerably, but the council still fails overland to and over 1000. yeah. and i think what we're seeing today, if you credit any of it goes up. but also overall, the cases like my on my is the tensions involving the us involving the russians and involving the chinese really hobbling this organization. which i think is sadly, inevitable. a given the very 10 states of global politics today, one robotic, does the world need these 5 police but us as richard put it? the parental supervision of 5. will pallas, 2 of which you could argue, are not nearly as powerful as they once were to what extent should security council

membership be about value? it's not just about power as well. i think because as richard mentioned, the security council reflects the world. does that exist at the 1945 and it has failed to evolve since then for the simple reason that the security council reform is an incredibly complex process which requires the consent of those who stand to gain the least from any change. and i and therefore we can, i think, have a discussion proposing all kinds of manner in which a security council could operate more effectively and more efficiently. but i also think we have to recognize that the chances of this happening are exceedingly small . and now, with israel's war on the gaza strip, i think that the un, or at the very least, the security council is, i'm facing, it's abas cindy

a moment on that time in the 1930s, when the league of nations failed to confront, is real as sorry, italy's aggression against ethiopia, because those on the receiving end of aggression were, were too dark to have any concern. and what was that in the international community? and actually what we're seeing is increasingly the international community seeking remedies outside and beyond the scope of the security council. most recently with south africa's application to the international court of justice, the general assembly resolutions, which are non binding. but yet, and i think the uh, the relevance of the security council is diminishing with every passing day, the colorado should any nation have a palace, a veto?

decisions made by a majority of the others at the you and in general, the not just the, the security council. i mean, why is that the global south given a much more influential voice on the security council? why don't india and brazil have a permanent seat countries in africa while they represented permanently on the security council? well, the simple answer is they didn't win the 2nd level, it was the victims of the 2nd level who decided the machinery of the united nations and determined that the 5 of them, the current permanent 5 would have that the tire in order to protect their interests. richard gallon is entirely right that they was that top is kind of global policeman, but the b type was to protect the interest and they are not going to get that out any time soon. but that has been literally decades of debate about reform at the un security council. the. busy which is really coming to

a head at the moment because of what is happening in gaza in the us be veto of sci fi resolutions. but also because the russians of the type resolutions on ukraine in a similar way that seems to be bro consensus. the african needs to need small representation, asia to perhaps with in the joining as a permanent member and brazil from latin america. but the trouble with reform is that nobody can agree which countries to become new permanent members. so there are ideas of semi permanent members, things like that to try to get round this. but the basic problem at the moment is that each of the perspective permanent members light in the brazil, etc, has very fast opposition to from of a country. so there is no consensus on who should join a reformed security council. a con, why don't we, why, why does the security council need permanent? ben does a tool why count, it'll be just done on, on a rotating old of the,

or democratic basis. democratic doesn't really fit with the us. most of the democratic organ it is, it is a body of states, many of which are not democratic. the general assembly is a place where things are debated and motions of past, according to a majority or 2 thirds majority. but the security council is different by a bubble because the resolution for the policy is the decision. so that makes a blick, a treat, or a 193 member states of the, of the us. and so that gives it an extraordinary importance switch. the general assembly, oh ok. you play a more democratic party at least in state tubs. it gives a power that the general assembly does not have. and as richard. 2 ones, the permanent 5, i'm not going to give up the power to block obligatory decisions on the rest of the

. well that is that is not going to happen any time. say why the, which is why isn't that going to happen anytime soon? i as well because quite frankly for the us, china and russia is this is a, a very happy situation to be that you have 3 powers with huge differences. but nonetheless, they have a common interest in maintaining control over the un system in the way the com describes, i mean, i think it is worth saying that we are seeing the why the un membership, both the mounting reform in a way we haven't really heard for these 20 is since the rock war. and secondly, we're seeing the general assembly becoming more active. and the general assembly has spoken. alison passed resolutions on by a few crating and gaza. um, which expressed the frustration of most un members with the way the security

council is working now. so that is a bit of an uprising, but the rules of the un shot to make it very clear that the current permanent 5 members have to agree to any small change to the child to such as the leasing to be so well changing the composition of the security council, so at the end of the day, washington and most go in beijing can prevent any reforms that they find on comfortable richard in september, you and 2nd, for general until the chapters won't that a great fracture in the global governance? the system was lubing, but what does he mean by that? what's, what's the mood among diplomats after you in a day is frustration for the organizations ability to respond to the crises just as the rest of us. yes, i mean, one thing that i have from diplomat some old books, old groups in new york is that they increasingly struggle to convince that political mazda is back in that conference. it was the, the us,

and really massive. i think there is a feeling amongst western nations says the u. n. has shown profound limitations of ukraine. and that's certainly a feeling around was that the un struggling profound limitations. so because it and so a lot of diplomats sitting in midtown manhattan. yeah. i do sense that they are pretty motional to well, the fads now and that leaves a pretty solid lude around the organization. i think that i'm telling you a guitar when he talked about a great fact fracture was actually envisaging even broad of problems. i think it's our, steve's that there are issues about power and already and the security council, but also in other multi lot for bodies such as the world bank. and i am ass guitar is worried that if the current big power has done at least allow some reform, think about a little bit of federal authority. but you're just going to see

a lot of countries drifting away from the multi doubtful system altogether because it's so clearly biased and also so frequently ineffective bon romani, coming back to what you were saying about the chances of a phone being strongly small is, is most or less the age of multilateralism dead, as i wouldn't say. so i think we're beginning to see the different forms of multilateralism. and i think you're beginning to see 2 developments. the 1st is, for example, um the establishment, an expansion of brooks as, as alternatives or, or supplements to the existing, multi lateral system. and, and the other is, is you're seeing increasing tensions between the roll western designs, rules based international order on the one hand and international law, the will of the international community on the other. and i think this is being expressed very clearly, for example,

in the very different resolutions that are being adopted or not adopted by the security council on the one hand and the general assembly. on the other hand, i should of, we've been talking a lot about the use and abuse of, of, of the veto by the permanent 5 members of the security council. and that's an entirely appropriate discussion to have. but i think we also need to look at the, those resolutions that have been adopted and that are being violated even by the permanent 5 or some of the permanent 5 members. so for example, the united states relocated its embassy to his real, from tel aviv to jerusalem. an open and direct and brazen violation of a security council resolution from belief. 1980 calling upon member states to remove their diplomatic missions from jerusalem. you know, the latest security council resolution calling upon states to observe distinction

in their dealings with israel, between israel and the occupied territories is primarily longer than the breach. so i think the problem again, as, as, as, as my colleagues have been saying, goes much deeper than simply the security council and the, as an abuse of, of utah to come out and do the seemingly and practical per intractable problem here. a, it's almost impossible to, to perform the un security council given the permanent members. no one is to give ground the you in charge that we discussed. somehow majority of patients wanted some reform is gonna have to happen. we talked at the beginning of the program about the you and some of the future that, that, that you're working on. is it, i mean, is there anything likely to come out of that and tell us about about what that

somebody aims to do? and so, i mean, just a quick comment on what marian said, i'm in there. awesome. most of that true success is for instance, i mean, i find it remarkable. the 10893 member states are able to agree on climate change file diversity. things like that, so there is some life left in the multilateral system. the un summit of the future was cooled by the secretary general to discuss the future of multilateralism, future global institutions. it's happening the september at the most senior head of state level. and it is supposed to cover everything from sustainable development to the governance of out the space, to security council reform. and what we're saying, talking, what i'm hearing talking to diplomats, is that there is a real appetite to do something on the security council or a form. everybody knows is really intractable. but maybe they can agree, for instance, to have a deadline on agreeing reform. there is already an inter governmental discussion

happening at the un, which is very can produce some proposals for reform. so you can put the deadline on those actually being agreed that the you and they need a 2 thirds majority of the general assembly to alter the child to. and then as others have been saying, they need to be ratified by particularly the p 5 themselves. that i would know also the legislatures, so whatever on the phone, we might see proposed that the un would then have to be rectified by the us congress. i'm, i'm sure you'll view is can imagine how difficult that might be, but the you and some of the future is a particular moment is supposed to be a kind of generational moment to discuss global governance. so inevitably, security council reform is on the table. so what will the outcome document from this summit of the future looked like kind of what the, what is going to be a fudge? at the end of the day, i as well international agreements have frontiers of various kinds getting

a 193 countries to agree. and the thing is pretty remarkable. and so far what i'm saying is that we will get 193 countries to agree this text at the moment. that's the outcome tex, i'm the negotiations. it's pretty old for its lowest common denominator stuff. but i actually think there is an opportunity here for a group of moderate right? thinking progressive states to introduce some really thoughtful, ambitious reforms. you know, i mean, i'm in the go straight to, i think you give things a go. maybe you get them for may be done, though on the other hand, what are the best that are said to me getting emma thing agreed in this moment of great political pension and confrontation, would be remarkable. richard, what state is the us diplomatic standing right now at the you and since israel launched it's one gaza of the us, as we said, has found itself increasingly isolated in, in both the general assembly. i'm and the security council, but i think that us diplomats up entirely aware that they have lost

a huge amount of goodwill over the past months because of the best on its own garza . and i think that is very frustrating for us officials in the bikes and administration who would actually spent the last couple of years working pretty hard. and i think reasonably successfully to restore us credibility at the un, off to the period of the trumpet, ministration. when the us was a very disruptive play up in new york. now of course, american diplomats now phase 2 problems. one is that the white house continues to follow the policies on gaza. that nice to a members, i'm find profoundly mistaken. and then there is an election on that rice and diplomats in new york. you know, they've read the new york times. they watch cnn. and they have very aware that mr. trump may come back and one year from now, we may be looking at

a isolationist disruptive us. the un that will be even harder to work with than the bite and team has been in recent months. and what just to us briefly, richard, what does the us need to do to restore his credibility at the, at the you and do, did you think, is it possible to do some? well, i think the shadow, trump will make it very difficult for the bite and with ministration to fully we gain credibility in the coming year. but that all things, but the administration could do staffing, obviously, with supporting a c fire and gaza and then using the mechanisms of the un, including the security council to support the ceasefire. and perhaps we commit to the 2 state solution. the us can also invest in this, on this of the feature that calling us being describing it cutting, fully positive policies on other issues such as supporting crisis management's in

africa, which would win it back some goodwill. but at the end of the day that the issue is gaza. and until there is a ceasefire in garza, the us is going to continue to struggle, i think diplomatically in new york. well, i'm reminded you do agree with that. i mean, can the us rebuild trust with it's that with the white a u. n. community of to the way in which it's behaved over garza a. yeah. yes. i do agree with with what was said, and i do think that this has been a rupture. um, i do think it can be legitimately compared to the league of nations on response to the time vision of, of a senior i'm, i'm sure washington would love to you. one security council reform, you know, provided the security council was reduced to 3 members. the us, the u. k. and as real, but that's also not on the agenda. and i think ultimately once again,

i think states will 3 the security council as increasingly an obstacle to international order to international cooperation to international peace and security. and began to seek the solutions elsewhere, whether within the u. one system such as the general assembly in other agencies. and if those failed to achieve results as well, increasingly outside the u. one system, which i think would be very unfortunate because the united nations is the only truly global body we have of that to being run into the ground. primarily by those who are abusing the retail power in order to protect their own narrow self interest and their posted style. laws found here to agree with that a, the, to what extent has the us behavior of the un since october last year damaged the credibility of the organization of the organization as a whole. oh i,

i agree with the family so it's definitely done a no much damage to the american reputation at the us and the power to influence people on of the decisions at the un um the credibility but ukraine, for instance, where russia has because resolutions at the un security council, i mean, russia has also brought the organization into disrepute, but more the us is down the golf blocking seats for our resolutions as also on demand the wisdom position on ukraine. so it's, it's, it's not a good picture. i think we need to be reaffirmation of some of the things the un is about particularly the legality of well because war is actually illegal, but foot to very narrow circumstances, self defense, and when conflicts when more forces authorized by the un security council. and i hope that those values hold

a very much more on it in the breach today will be reaffirmed. likewise, the us bands, but some very important universal principles such as human rights. the universal declaration on human rights are complete. the most important agreement, albeit a normative, not a legal agreement of the 20th century visa standards, the we must stop how we cannot let this institution be eroded. richard, we thought about a minute left on the program a how do you see the future for the you? i are you optimistic? pessimistic is the us going to maintain it. stays us is 1st among the cause among us nations, its role as director, leader. if you like, i think that the crises, common crises go and i am sure that if all else was equal, when the war and gauze are finally out in the us, would be able to gradually rebuild some leadership. although i think facing

continuing challenges from china and russia, but i do come back to this point, but if we have a 2nd trumpet ministration, then we could see much greater ruptures and much greater dramas as the un, about ready to not the end of washington. this decades of multi lot for leadership of the gentleman, we must leave it, but he thinks indeed the all for taking part in the program today richard go on, go on rabbani and con ross. i thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the website. i'll just 0, don't com for further discussion. join us about facebook page, which you'll find at facebook dot com, forward slash age a inside story. and of course, you can join the conversational x a handle that at age i inside story from me. i agree. instead of going at the same in the, let's see, i can find the

is the biggest global election yet in history. the world's biggest democracy, both its own epic showdown john main screen of offering grandfather, beautiful boss really focusing on india as i traveling across the country. examining the issue of the 6 and the 4th of athletics at this critical moment in the country of history. beautiful coming soon on august, the, in an increasingly complex world, this terminal to be during the session was or should be this month on sort of discussions that come through the norm upfront on how to deal expo 2023 door to the fascination

of joining us and let's discover a better world expo 2023. the ha. hello, i'm sammy's a. this is the news out live from dell coming off in the next 60 minutes. israel launch is attacks on or off in southern gauze and killing at least 17 people. the security council has been prevented repeatedly from calling for an immediate cease fire the united nations general assembly debates for us is.