to restore long lasting stability to the country. this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm joe. know how hate is capitalism war? that's the warning from the countries director of national police footprints has been over run by gangs. the state of emergency has been declared off, the gang members attacked to prisons freeing several 1000 prisoners. the security situation west and off the president of juvenile moiz was assassinated 3 years ago . 4 months protest as have been calling for prime minister ariel on re to step down . they're angry about the late elections, the rising cost of living and in security. the united nation says the violence forced 300000 people to leave their homes this year. while the foreign minister has like of the situation in haiti to a, was a to help restore order,

the un has proposed sending a multinational force. so what's led to this crisis and these international intervention, the way to resolve it, we'll discuss. so one of that without guests in a few minutes, but 1st this, from me, calls to the chevy in a country in chaos. heavily um gang. swipe seize control of haiti's main at fort on monday. exchanging files with police and solutions. the attack is the latest and then explosion of vitamins that's included the escape of several 1000 inlets from the countries to biggest presence, leaving some of the co few in emergency measures on plays with the funding is escalating. it's forcing businesses and schools to close and hundreds of people to flee for safety check. i'm with, since the day i left my house, i've lived like an estimate. and what? because in this space for sleep,

even animals don't slips that were crammed together with the gang sled, by jimmy chevy to a former police officer known as barbecue are trying to over to the government, prime minister of your andre traveled overseas, trying to get support for the un back security force, but the address was sent in his absence. the situation is getting worse, the national police can do nothing against wild guns. only a military force can help us in this situation. in 2019 and increase and few prizes left to protest and escalated into a long drawn out. crisis involving job losses rises in the cost of living and food shortages for more than half of the countries. 11000000 citizens living under for over 2 line will affected 2 years later, the assassination of preston jovan enemies, the 2 low listeners that's continued to us and nearly 5000 people have been killed

in the balance in one year. and i'm groups now controlled about 80 percent of the captain according to the united nations. and it's calling for funding to tackle the situation and for elections to be held in haiti. the secretary jo reiterates the need for urgent action, particularly in providing financial support for the non, for the multi multi national security support mission to address the pressing security requirements of the haitian people and prevent the country from plunging further into chaos. the rest in haiti is warming neighboring states. the dominican republic has refused to open for a few to cabs. for people seen k t, the u. s. has also american citizens to leave quickly. but for those left in the country, there's no escape from the reality of what the un describes as catastrophic levels of hunger and silence that are only getting. but let me put some shareef arches 0

for inside story the well before we go to a panel of experts, let's hear from and by so through of the republic of haiti, to the states of cutoff from spot deal, who joins us from the very good to have you with us ambassador, your countries is in the group of anarchy of gang led rule, one of its worst crises, certainly in the modern era. did you ever imagine things could get this bad as well? thank you, mr. hall festival. 42 positions, the english and also nice to 1st and foremost is that might be based on the lenses and the families are falling rain with his wife and security for children. i'm the father of encourages all these offices that go on there every day. they use the lines to try to present the same thing by myself. all this common

hallway is we can't forget that we have someone who's officer is not going to be received. nobody has to be like does it show on the assignment you said that what is happening right now is not all the the reason being is one of the better part of the last 20 years in government and the national funds for us haven't been writing the international community on the risk, i'm say we unfortunately haven't police force that has not part of the capacity for the spacious bright. we all get it was, you know, i mean don't have a technical capacity in terms of numbers. we are out number and we are one. unfortunately, what's happening today is not all that surprising. it's actually when you have games that are coordinating your efforts,

we're seeing all the capacity on the point as far as, as far we've been and taking advantage of some we watch the ease uh cry. it is fine. however, there is a solution. the national police force solutions to be able to come to a resolution of this and security. and before i send past me and has been for the past 2 years, in terms of what we've seen, i worked at it for the least was the establishment of a collaboration between the national police force and them all by national support was that was so you believe that an international security force is the onset or part of the answer. it is definitely part of the answer and it's funny part of the games. there are many, there are many other fives, all these security problem. the fact that we have young men and women about our funding branch from getting active, it is because out,

and that's now been left to know all the alternatives in that route. so in, in, apparently with security matters. 18. how can be seen in an area where it has to be invested in each state? is we need to invest more demanding, and torching the stick about investment. my take, it is one of those countries, one of those mans the most of the itself. oh, is the kind of a kind of a golf from find how so the best, so the prime minister ariel henri is out of the country. he went to kenya to try and resolve the block in getting the security forces into haiti. where is the prime minister at this moment? and when is he planning to make his re, to this information hasn't been destroyed yet in terms of what he's he definitely that came out, i believe. and she went up to the prime minister. he wouldn't mean 18 days ago. the

current situation in 18 probably has presented logistical issues for her not being able to be there. i wonder, i do not have her latest information was worry about. but that does not sound this part of the fact that you believe that is wrong and he's, he's pretty strong in progress. i know i'm positive, francois gale money. thanks for your time. and for joining us. well, let's bring in a panel of experts now from bordeaux in front, when the cherokee is with the defense intelligence company. james, he was with the un peacekeeping force in haiti in 2014, in new york. round up fell by brown, his director of the initiative on non state actors for the brookings institution. and finally, we have ralph emmanuel, francois haitian social entrepreneur and activist. we're not revealing he's location for security reasons. welcome to all of you ralph. let me ask you,

1st of all, what is it like for ordinary haitians now, living in the grip of gang led anarchy, all the economic catastrophe jump listeners, hung the sexual exploitation, the atrocities committed on the streets. this is a very sad situation for the country. now, and uh, as it is hard to imagine and the level of the motions that we have, we now fear and sadness pass and mistake, man. it's, it's really hard to imagine it's uncertainty is, you know, you're not able to put jet fuel life and to say that, okay, in 24 hours, that will be in this location 24 hours. i'll be there, i'll be there. and you know,

every, to every day that you have a family member coming back from the streets and slides or party and it's, it's really difficult to, you know, project life in such a chaos. so you put the spice of insecurity and uncertainty. very upset. yeah. yeah, it is very hard in them, i believe the, there's some communities all held hostage and, you know, and the abuse in what happens in terms of response from the government. so they, they can curse you, me is yours and everything, but they have not been able, you know, to communicate appropriate b, m, and times the price is the lease that we see at the lease that we should expect from our political leaders used to hide. you know, from the window is not in the taking responsibility. at least we have been waiting

for a communication like face to face, where i would find me these are, should be, you know, and place it in front of the tv and telling people what they are. planes are, you know, for the next 24 hours for the next 7 to 2 hours. and how are you going to deal with this situation? okay, well then that's all about bry, a, a picture of political failure, social dysfunction and of course rule by games. the with your special speciality in non state actors. in other words, on groups like gangs and with, with a specific focus i know on haitian gangs tell us how did they become so powerful, essentially defeating the mechanisms of state as well for decades. i hate to has to do that study exclusionary but it's

a so 3rd on of bringing economic and political benefits to a very narrow class of people. while the director of the population has been essentially left to fend for itself and for decades. also, businessman and politicians and hate, they often have the highest level have been using gas for the economy service is to intimidate and course the arrivals. overtime. however, the gags have slipped 30 ish and they have become far more powerful, far more organized. and far more ambitious. approximately the stems from the access to heavier weapons. but actually this is the socialization, the learning. they have some decades interacting with a single system that has been using them for their purposes. and this is now they do place on a context where he has not had the legitimate government for, for 3 years. uh, but it has been, uh maurice was assassinated and since then,

oh oh, prime minister audit, i'm re, has this in the office of the prime minister. he was never elected to that. it was all along significant political opposition to his rules. he promised that by february 2024, he would hold the elections that it was not done for many reasons, including a visual sector in this situation. and so we don't know the context of a government. that is, we went to a police forces like the size of the collapse, but against that blog use the power to interact and colors the political system. and now i'm more than more ambitious. and the conditions for organizations are absolutely colors. so essentially collusion with politics and politicians produced a monster and the monster escaped the cage ones at the terrace. but you, you have experience of african forces, the makeup of expertise. you also have experience on the ground and hate to with. and most of the un peacekeeping force in 2014, i want to ask you,

is it appropriate to be drawing a security force from african countries to be brought to hate to? shouldn't it be people closer to hand with a better knowledge of the situation? in the country, perhaps latham countries or the kind of being or the united states even. and so the african countries are being involved in the new style. they've provided some police contingents. they speak french and there you just some cultural connection with the 8 patient people. so involvement of african forces would likely have some positive elements. the problem, as you mentioned, is that they do not have experience on the ground, the type of operations that would be, need to conducting for the price, with mostly the urban operations. for which uh, for example, the kenya police as no major experience. a flashing american countries were significantly involved in the new status of a lot of experiencing h e. they know the lay of the land. they would definitely be a better option,

probably on the account them through experienced. the problem is that not many of them are eager to join to dates among the countries that have committing themselves to the possibility of joining the force. i remember of caribbean countries including jamaica, diana behind us believes actually jamaica has a lot of experiencing the urban operations in the kind of setting that uh uh, that could be both the price parking uh games in, uh, kingston and uh with probably, uh the very well suited to operations and the, the, the problem is uh, the comp to meet large number of personnel. okay. well, ford way, with all of that in mind, i mean, do you think you'll country would welcome an international security force now, particularly given the legacy of mental stuff that ended in 2017, that was sexual exploitation. allegations made against those un peacekeepers a cholera epidemic that killed 10000 people that came out of the account. um,

obviously we need the use of force. we need to use a force. but i believe i strongly believe we thought a political strategy the, you know, stuff, ours will not be effective. and it showed that in the past, for example, into top was dated for the epi center of the complex situation in terms of getting binds wireless diesel legs. this way is a slum on the almost cord. outsource of photo plants of to year, 100000 people at this time. and we had around $10000.00 the soldiers there. and actually we are in 2024 we used later. and we know that only one, every center of the violence. we're now. yeah, more a happy centers. so it also the situation is much more complex for many reasons.

one of the reasons is in 2004, the games was, were more or less for economists. now they have mostly the tools punch full of our maritime, you know, start conference and account cheap maritime. so it is much more complex and deal localized in some parts of what it is we we which, which means that of course there will be both on the ground, but we need a full legal strategies because we should anticipate civil casualties. so most people, you know, is a paper also wrapped in humanitarian response. right. let's let me bring the car. let me bring vanda in on that. i mean, is there a risk that's ending 5000 troops from africa into 80, under these circumstances? is that the best a very, very temporary solution without a wider plan as well? absolutely. is this a temporary solution that i think that everyone understand that the m s. s is

managed to provide security environments to bo, enabled the political process to move forward? certainly at least one election so that there is some legitimate elected body in haiti, but also to enable the reconstruction of the haitian police force, which nominally, somewhere around $9000.00 men in practice. it's 3000, not a patient or any dave. it's a pet that's probably a high number. none the less that are many challenges for uh, the emphasis of some of which has to do with the number of personal eligibles already mentioned. it's not inevitable that we actually have 5000 forces. what kind of uh, rules of engagement they will have, will they take an offensive $5.00 to $1.00 of the gangs? will they be in a static position, simply perhaps protecting the domains at all between the board and the porch terminal to a central type of for the past. very many questions,

a massive amount of uncertainty in what it is, no doubt going to be a very complex mission lasting for very long time. what i've been able with last very long time to some of you, the gags, to a level of security. and it doesn't, simplex was the moment the judge leave and, and not have been not even mentioned. i mean, we're talking about the final mission, essentially uh, what i want to bring you in on this. i mean, in africa, you'll be perfectly well aware abundantly. so i'm sure the activities of groups like wagner and i wonder whether in the absence of the, the willingness or ability of countries to actually properly police the situation in haiti. whether you can see, or for, see the possibility that the russians get involved here on a different basis on a different level. uh uh, i don't see, the russian says deploying wagner or any kind of direct uh, uh,

presence in haiti, it would be quite complex. uh, and it would not necessarily advance their uh, themes significantly, however, using uh, internet media can thing this information can things that they've done. so up to you nafrica over the past couple years, they could definitely so further dissension, creating a and even more significant. do many, terry, in crises on the doorstep of the united states and as distracting the attention of the united states in terms of its security commitments and potentially military commitments away from the europe, away from china, away from the, from guys bundle. i want to ask you, you talk about a political framework and, and,

and so, and i mean, if we assume that the gangs of so infiltrated into haitian societies, is that there is such a degree of collusion between the gangs and politics. do we have to assume that the political future of haiti, at least the foreseeable one, will have to on some basis include those gangs, possibly that political leadership will come from the gangs. and i want to, for instance, coolies, jimmy barbecue. sherry's. yeah, you see a man who could be negotiated with is he a man who could rise to political leadership? and so there are a normal contract versus a in haiti about the questions are asking very large number of people have suffered terribly and they hated the idea of any kind of negotiations with the guess of indemnity this. of course, hey dee has a that keeps lock tradition of such negotiations, taking place that has a simply resulted in empowering the games. so want to negotiate in ways that, that, that reduce the damage or argument the damage. i mean,

certainly the nature of the negotiation develop very much depends on how powerful the emphasis is and what kind of security effect it manages to generate on the ground. if the, if the national force is very weak, accomplishes perhaps only holding sold to the inflow structures and the gangs continue to arrest or depressed that any kind of negotiations would be, we get the gang wouldn't bell. i asked for a political power of barbecues to mission as yet is a former police officer. he certainly isn't, but he pointed to quit acting east, perhaps the most politically overly part of the big wood active of the game because he, there's other game getting this sort of politicians be faxed from their political alliances jersey as himself, personally politically ambitious. and the latest um, several days the wireless we have had showed his yes,

i think that he's again trying to bring down the government to find is that already? uh, ralph was checking. he said that an outcome to it. okay, going well, i'd like to put a word there. yeah, go and barbecue is the use of between, you know, he's a criminal. i know is, is very intelligent and he's been looking for, you know, communication and to present himself to have like a, a poster. as a leader, but he's a criminal, and the biggest, the biggest mistake that we should avoid is to validate the gang members as negotiations, actors, the criminals. and that's the reason i'm saying that, of course, we need to use a horse. but we thought political strategy that we are besides intelligent political strategy that addresses 1st by the essentials of these 2nd

method do not carry implant. and to address apply around 5000000 people for food and security and last a clear path to election, credible action. okay, so to speak, you actually very important. give us most of this moment. no, i'm going to those you issue members, not legal issues. you're probably going to bounce back to you in a 2nd. i'm going to bounce back to you in a 2nd for a final sort ralph on this, but i just want to bring vendor. and what about 5 minutes to real? only he's about to make a reappearance. we think in haiti any day now, how will he be received? he will be at presumably great risk, and does he have anything politically to think to offer, given that he's essentially discredited and mistrusted a so far uh, prime minister um it is not been billing since the down. a lot of the political efforts in haiti have centered on the negotiations with him of such as through the opposition groups around what used to be the one time at the college and all of

civil society. and that is part of the good part is other political part is he still remains a very important act, even in the simplest of being down, of course. but just to step down right now, that is a significant challenge of who will emerge as the either be down elections, which kind of beheld. i'm the kind of the circumstances. so i feel he left for k. yeah. continued saying he would stay in office and elections would be held in about a year this time. yet it's as role saying earlier, i mean, there is a sense of increasing by the day, by the hour as a result of the latest violence that even his own authority has radically gloves. safety away. ralph, i want to bring you in for a final thoughts here. and, and, and, and, and bring us back down to a community level in, hey, see, in hate to the people of haiti. you spoke about the way they live in such fearful,

and i'm 2nd conditions that brutality also the creeping into society with the rules of the gangs and in, in the way that people relate to one another within communities and within society . how long this will you will country and its communities and its people, serv, i survive and recover from all of this that they will and we will be a very on the to mistake. and if you look at our history, we've had so many hurdles. and so many times, of course, the other, many people that i've lost, the family members do use the complex situations. but as long as they believe that we could get that, we said, hey, these are useful county. i'm almost out of the population is under 18 years old. so whenever you have youngsters, you have hold. and uh,

i understand also there was a generational conflict, and i understand that some come easy as far hills hostage, but we must come back and we should come back. but i of the also, i would like to underline, we started political strategy. the use of force will be very effective. and i wouldn't ask the government, i would pass priming primaries at all yellow. the please make it easy for us is to not take your responsibility. it shows that you'll be here for almost 3 years . yeah, the 1st document. nothing building for 2nd estimates. nothing deliver, always step back. come together. okay, well that starts in the presence of a resignation and participate in the political process that should help the country and an important appeal to many thanks to ralph and thanks to all of i guess

initially i invested francois gave them, of course, on the charity vanda felt bad brown and ralph emmanuel francois and thank you to for watching. you can see the program any time by visiting our website, elders here at the common for further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. and you can also join the conversation on x r handle is at a inside story from the journal hole and the whole team here. it's good bye for now, the, the president biden says once a 2 state solution for palestinians and israelis, what does anybody believe it's doable? what this is real for? i'm gonna say it back to us foreign policy. and what are the long term consequences for the region and the world? a quizzical look at us politics, the bottom line,

the

. the dog or kyle, this is denise our life. coming up in the next 60 minutes, hundreds of thousands of palestinians pushed to the brink of finding us as rob blocks, a convoys from reaching northern gauze. is there any strides continued to target civilian homes across the strip for them? she 1700 palace demands have been killed since the 7th of october 18th prime minister has in puerto rico, trying to return home as gainesville, and that will be civil boy if he does not step down like he is expected.