and so we are changing lives in palestine showing that love days. you donated we deliver upon the ship, we'll be in bringing you husband love to palestine for all to see said donated with confidence. knights with outcast foundation. we are in palestine together. we are changing the world. one halts, that's time a deal between if you, if you're in the break away region of some of the land and building a new naval base. this further west and diplomatic relations with some of the, its government is furious at the agreement, which would give landlocked ethiopia access to the see. why is this dispute listening? and because of the why the consequences. this is inside story, the

hello there on james space. amalia has ordered out ip used on by so the record its own from that is out of the and demanded the to if you, if you and cold. so let's be shut down. the route between the neighbors has sent it on a deal if you have it is done with somebody lined the brakes away, reach and paint by somalia. part of the agreement would give landlocked ethiopia access to the red sea so far it's only a diplomatic dispute, but the relations of listening and causing serious concern internationally will be expanding while i joined the program and asking what might happen next. but to examine the background, to all of this in more detail, this report from when we call some short weeks to simmer in tensions between somalia and a 2 p a, a now a full blown diplomatic dispute. somalia has expelled it to p as a bus to recall its own boy from just above the an older the closure of tools that's considered that's in response to a controversial report deal between it to appear on the break lead region of some

of the land. the agreements made in january has led to a world of fluids between the 2 sites. what's new is that the field here, which has long said that it would not be the 1st government to recognize somebody lends independence. it wouldn't be the 2nd seems to have adjusted the view and decided to take the, the next step, which is to say that they would deal with some other land as an independent state. they have long standing security, economic and political ties. so this is really just a step forward. i'll be a dramatic one that has irritated the government involved issue under a memorandum of understanding the m o u. some money land has allowed its land lock neighbor to least part the fits coastline. read to appeal wants to set up a naval base and a commercial report on the red sea. in exchange, if you hope you're offered to recognize the break with region as an independent

nation. smalley line, seated from somalia and more than 30 years ago. but its independence is not the international you've recognized. among the issue consist tamani land part of its territory in an interview without just leave or in january, somebody is pressed. and how soon shake must move a choose add a step above or for next thing a part of both the complete claims as its own. the issue is not with this to be access to the c. they asked me to access for also money where everyone is somebody above the question is how, how do they want to to access the c by next impact of somebody drinking the voters? so, maria, this is what's going on right now. it is not a commercial it this on a next station, often a to the latest runs of tensions between somalia. i need to be a, have been stunned by another somalis region pumpkin is a federal member state of somalia. and as announce a new cooperation agreement with addis ababa pumpkin has refused to recognize

amendments to somalia as constitution made earlier this week. and is making most woods more autonomy by pulling out of somalia as federal system and wants to govern themselves independently. what links this amount of land in portland issues is an e p o, p a, has this m o u, with some of the land. and yesterday, invite to the delegation from portland to add a sub of to discuss enhanced relations between ethiopia and portland. and that seems to have pushed them on the issue or the somalis, federal government to take this step of expelling if you're getting diplomats. the deal is raising tensions in the home of africa. region already facing immense political instability for the bodies to indirect, see, the hooting forces have been attacking ships, and i'll being hit by the us and u. k. and the consumption div, i'll just 0 for inside story. well

let's discuss all of this now with all guess today on skype, from out of out of a samuel get to choose a political come and types of specializing in ethiopia. joining us from london is trauma ali. he's an activist with the u. k somali lambda lions. i don't skype from his stumble, abdul karim. gemma is the chair of the heritage institute for policy studies, a think tank based in the somali capital. mogadishu, thank you. all of you for joining us today. now i've covered a lot of diplomatic stories in my time, and normally when i'm researching them, i think the best thing to do is go and have a look at the key documents involved. what do you try and look for this memorandum of understanding that was signed on the 1st of january? and you can actually find a copy of it. the basic deal is to lease a lamb's 20 kilometers of the coastline from somalia and by e. c. i p at 450 is, isn't that samuel? but why don't we have all the details once they've been quiet so far, the,

to open government as well as the somalian on government. but what we know so far, the basis sofa, the agreement is to allow ethiopia to use a port in somali land in exchange for a share of perhaps a sheriff. and one of us because for if not the best, the most profitable airlines. and i think which is a to open airlines, but the prime minister has been saying from the get go, that's april pollution of at least 120000000 needs some kind of for it. and that's why this was signed. you have to remember that todd somali and also signed a deal was due by based d p world. and we didn't see a person that's a position to it from somalia. and we are as surprised as anyone that there is no position to something that's going to be changing the make up for the story of this continent that has been prone to conflicts and firemen and so so forth. but the underlying issue is the field that needs some kind of for it to be so sufficient

and feed a patient that's in need. sean mckay. yes, we mentioned that by samuel of a previous deal in 2017, which seemed to collapse for ip to take a state in the, in the existing port, the bubble wrap ports. but there's an argument that some of the land spin but one book once before and tell us with regard to this particular plan. your understanding is this just enable based or is it also a commercial port? because i sort of seen different views on this. dave is thank you very much for having me festival. that's an interesting question, but i disagree. i don't think it's the case of someone's being but and kind of country hasn't been bent. i think what we saw, what we've seen is that so lining then an s t o p are all ready to actually be a pioneer in africa. they've shown africa and the well that they're ready to collaborate on a win win principal to ensure prosperity, peace,

and development in the region. they want to show the, well, actually, africans can work together. and by working together, we will achieve our goals and targets. and that's just a matter of fact. so that be and in 2016, i guess was being negotiated, but you know how it deals. all of this still is exactly the same, the details i currently be, i am out. i interviewed the for a minister of somebody in the republic of somebody that's a couple of days ago. and he said that the technical aspect of the deal is almost complete. and very shortly, the details of the agreement will be ironed out and somebody that'll be in a democratic peaceful country. and as a result of, you know, uh, conditions on its clinic, its constitution will actually present the deal to parliament. so this bill will not be hidden, it will be one that follows due process and which will be rectified by the parliament and so on. and i didn't had a case and then present it to the low, but we comp put the cart before the horse. abdul karim then,

why is somalia so upset a thank you, james. the i think the, the, the session is that basically if you will be in this case, is proposing to take part of somalia and cut off another part and make it into a separate country. i don't believe any, some prospecting country in the world will accept to that. this is no different than some of the making deals with the ticket a or on how to v gene or auto mia and offering to give them recognition and know, taking some parts of the c will be a and adding it to each tennis or simply put that to the issue, and this is an issue between 2 solver and countries said being somalia, i need to be a not to between the regions of somalia and other countries that is the issue attend, but it is an increase of the it is up to create

a little bit more complicated than that, isn't it? because small the land many would say is it the fact tow country the decisions of the president all the parliament in mogadishu have no effect in, in somalia. and then it's been the situation for full, for since 1991. so this is, this is well over 3 decades. that's the government in mogadishu. and i know that's why you will based, doesn't really have any control of us, of all the lambda tools at the fair point of james. uh, the truth of the matter is that no country in this world as supports a recognizes somebody not as a separate country. so monte land itself uh does not agree on a succession or becoming a separate country that our thoughts, 5 families in somebody land and photo for them and half of the other do not recognize the idea of the session. i happen to be from that same region,

one 3rd of that to british territories or uh for much somebody line has to be in the add clarity of how to get used to authorities. and it is military and is now a recognized part of somalia, se optima a and out of the region and market region do not accept and half of the people in how to get to and um, but how do not accept this assessment. so this is not a happy go lucky, peaceful democratic country that has a unanimous mission that it's approaching and it's the whole world recognizes as part of somalia, even if the somali authorities do not operate in in, in how to do, sir? well, let's look at what the 2 countries have signed the deal. somali land an easier if you get from the deal. shamika if i can you just heard the abdul karim saying, no country recognizes somali line, but that is the point of this deal, isn't it easier to is going to recognize some of the land is going to become the

1st the days general of the issues here is that a lot of commentators that you see on your international news channels like yours are be intellectually dishonest. so money land stands in the right as it's cases but the legal tomorrow. and i want to go around the tribal arguments or emotional arguments, but i'll give you the facts very quickly. so my line is the oldest state when it comes to somebody, i'm actually most of the countries that it's neighbors with somebody i received its independence on the 26th of june. 1960 before i, as i said, most of its neighbors. i took a recognizes the stock and that's why nothing will change. it did the it should show because it looks to be good. let's not just select bits of history events. they choose to join the somalia and become a component parts of small here it was free choice, then goes into $196.00 this that's absolutely not james. this is the status see

that's presented on to the media. if you want to look at the details in terms of what happens if it's the, it was an actual legal union. what happened was someone in parliament at that time dropped to the julian in a greek event with the representatives from somebody else. and actually what happened was somebody italiano did when i called and told him, joe, on the cdn on past the completely different active union, which and fx rented that so called active duty and none void from the get go. and actually if i give you a very quick example and a very quick history less that i'm sure you will cover this in the future. in 1961, a british judge based in somebody are actually trying to, uh, pretty uh, somebody and soldiers for a crew that it came to the 1961. and he found, and he ruled that he could not sentence these soldiers who attempted the 2. because there was no active union which was rectified, i mean being that the legal,

this happened in the sure. so tonight to tell them you that, you know, we joined with somebody. yeah, i personally disagree. i what i say is it was an illegal occupation and we have because of the catherine shifflett, i'm talking about the alex. they should have so many of the territories, but i just want somebody lined up with an extra 1960, on the 20, you've done your history that we've done your history lesson. but we've got a lot of things to discuss about today here. if you don't mind, samuel, what does he get out of this deal? i suppose that's pretty obvious. when you look at the fact that easy i appear is the 2nd largest country by population in africa are off to nigeria, and it is land long. it has no access to the c, and let's just put everything in perspective. the somali government, somebody, and government in mogadishu can hardly control the, kept them sitting and they probably control a few buildings and look at an issue and that's it. but the reality is that some

money non government has been signing deals with different countries. and if you're there is no going to be the 1st country that's going to be recognizing somebody land. it's also taiwan. but the reality is this would give you access to a port that's needed, a tool that has a fast growing population, at least a 120000000 by an estimation. uh, and this would give you access to a c's and it's would give a mutual benefit to the somebody and government, including uh, share any to open in life. so as i said, so this is going to be a shared prosperity between somebody land and ethiopia. and hopefully it will also reach somalia. again, you know, we, we have your cell from like myself, we've covered this country for the last 3 years. this region, this country has been going for, you know, conflicts and war and the last 3 years. it doesn't need another conflict,

what you'll need. so i think you'll get proposes is unengaging meant to somalia, then engagement to somebody not to try to bring this to a conclusion. and so it's going back and forth between i'd be some of the and, and will condition doesn't toast. but this is going to move forward the country according to the, to open government. and it's need a t, c o band. i hope it goes. it moves forward. i'm doing korean, bring us up to date. now the latest developments, somalia, a spelling 8, the fuse box of the recalling its own um by soda and demanding the 2 e. c o p and consulates be closed. why is this happening now? because the original announcements of the deal was in january. what's the, what is the spock now? and dave, it's a good question. uh, i think the, obviously the, the, the, the problem initially was that you see will be a, has decided to make an agreement uh, with a regional somalia,

namely somebody line. and that was the problem. and that's that m o, you did not find any support from any country, no african country, european and us, uh, united nations, all the multilateral organizations, african union. and e got the islamic countries non aligned countries. now we have, we have been made to understand that by the powers that are mediating on this issue, that for all practical purposes, the m. o. u will be walked back by if you will be a and that to that issue is not going anywhere. it will not happen. in fact, it, uh there was an effort to, to uh, find that face saving way of walking that back. uh, that has not happened. a meeting that was requested with the president of somalia and the prime minister did not take place at now when if you will be again meet is one of the regents of some of the name of the plan to make

a new agreement. that is a blatant in tech sentence in the intent on the status of some of the old the find the jobs of occurring just to be clear. the fact that a senior official from portland, i think it was the finance minister, was on a formal visit to ethiopia, just days before the decision was made to take out the ambassador and to withdrawal . somali is um, by so the that may have been the spock for this the efforts of that were being made by uh, other countries to mediate between somalia and you see will be, uh, uh, were making some progress. uh uh, and now he is, he will be a, has put out a statement that, that they want to make an agreement with another region of somebody in this case pump land. yes. and without wind ignoring at that, this is part of his over the country called somalia. just as the case was with somebody land, then, then it was necessary for the so many government as,

as they put it to make the statement and expel the investigator and close the the, the order of the closing of the consulates. as i mentioned earlier, this is no different than somalia making deals with the regions of youth yorba without the involvement and knowledge of the federal government or if you feel okay, sean monica closing costs so that i know that's in who goes up the capital of some of the land, they actually call it an embassy. the easier if an embassy rather than consulate, the somalia, have any power to close that does it have any ability to do what it's just ordered to absolutely not change. 5 the reality is it will have 0 impact on the ground, like somebody is usually a tense. it's usually 10. so the various, the undermining someone is just a continuation in terms of somebody is policy towards somebody that actually last

yeah. and best of the day to day, but sure, i strongly presented his credentials to president. what's a, b, c i be of somebody not to an administration or entity in the position of so how can they even tell them about that to go home? it doesn't make sense, james. it's almost like somebody attending germany to close that and the same from like, it won't happen. in essence, somebody has about as much impact on somebody. and as a student representative of the model you where we'll talk a no impact on the ground, in my opinion. thank you. samuel people will talk about the security implications of this. because clearly you still have fighting going on in somalia. you still have, i'll show bob in somalia and you still have an african union mission. it was called amis. so i'm, it was then replaced by the african union transition, a mission at thomas. and that has e c o, p, in troops,

subbing in somalia. do you think they will be able to stay? do you think there's any possibility ip might pull them out all that somalia might order them out as well. hopefully they will stay because they have been important to open troops have been important to the reality of some of the but let me go back and address your guess. he keeps saying, if you're comparing what's happening into somebody not in portland to, to an example he's giving about to guy or are the regions sofa. if you need to be a cause of functioning government, you open government controls, 100 percent of the nation that is affected. so it's difficult to compare the experience. so if you feel bad to what's happening in somalia, again, the symbolic of the somalian government can hardly control mogadishu. leave her alone. so molly line go quite loud. and that's why the children government decided to deal with the somebody non government. and i hope there will be some kind of compromise. i hope there will be some kind of understanding by them. oh god,

you should government that this deal is important. no, just if you will, because what's happening if you want to face the whole region, but i hope they jump and troops space. but again, we've seen a tax on a fuel pen since us in somalia in the past week. and that has yet to be decided by the to pin function and government again to your guess, she should start comparing what's happening into the open regions to his country. his country needs to be improved as his country needs support and it needs to work with its neighboring countries to move forward as of cream. let me bring you back to you in on the security implications of this. because our show by, i'll show bob also opposes this new deal for a naval base. and there are some analysts saying that all of this, this big route could help. i'll show bob, recruit. what do you think of that? and no doubt, i addressed the 1st to the issue that the sir mark had mentioned. uh which ease,

uh, which has to do with the lack of authority or somalia. every major international activity, whether it's the financing facility of everything that goes on in somebody line or the part of the better put a extension. or as many concepts all come with the clear admission of somalia. the airplanes that land in had a gauge that have permission from somalia to facilitate people who lives there at going there. and he knows that. and so this idea that there is no authority is it is not accurate. if you will, the does not close these missions. it is not like the, somebody's will send out an army, but that means you to be will not recognize somebody as a country, which means somebody will not recognize the feel be as a country and will deal with it to stop component to. so that is not an issue at hand to, to go to the security of your colleagues, our colleague from a, this of, of our mentions that some of the, uh, it doesn't control each country. but if you will be controls, i was in this of,

of oper the african union a couple of week few weeks ago and have been advised that in all directions. i cannot go out of this of about except to buy plane because of that level was that around you see will be, is as dysfunctional as any country in the world. now that are waters in every corner. it doesn't control most of the regions. and the uh, it just defaulted on its basic payments so, so malia doesn't have the same problem that are 80 plus any groups at every, but each of the other is throat. somebody is one nation, one people, few political issues, but nothing compared to the problem is that if you up, yeah. so i don't think use a competitor to stomach a is a very well the you know, twice but sorry, quickly, quickly samuel and quickly the, you know, you know, he said he was in the suburb i and he was told what's happening and outside departments that were more we can hardly go to the dc and get out of a hotel per se, and to compare what's happening in ethiopia,

the challenges. so he's, he will be out to the challenge of system aaliyah that's day and night. and i, i think he should just come out of the, you know, of the bible and see what's happening. if you open somalia and understand this decision to give it, you'll have access with benefits his country as much as the fuel pen. somebody's done sean mckay is everyone in some of the lands. i know you're in london right now, but is everyone convinced by this deal because i saw, but soon after the deal was announced. somali mac loans own defense minister resigned and said, ethiopia, it remains our enemy against, you know, the interesting fact as somebody is usually tries to use that as a negative, but actually in my view, it's a positive. so model number is a democracy allows for alternate views, allows for people to hold the free opinions. it was his right to recite, and it says, any citizen of somebody that constitutional rights to oppose. but however,

that's not the case on the ground. the majority support this deal because they see that the teacher is bright for somebody. that recognition is important. relations with a joke. it's important unless somebody is just trying to distract from its internal fields where the government provide 0 public services. all the embassies, so co embassies, they talk about are based in bunkers in holland. they provide nothing for the citizen. so rather than focusing somebody that somebody should focus on securing its government in the shoot, what else about making considerable gains? not because of some of the agreement with your job, but actually because of somebody is action someone. okay. and i'd like to bring it in. so i mean, i'd like to bring in some real quickly. we don't have a lot of time, samuel, but how do we stop this? it's diplomatic route. how do we stop this escalating? we? i mean, we need the feed coming in. we need some kind of conversations this, this content in this region has to be not more for many, many years. and they need to sit down and bridge the differences and come up with

a conclusion because what's happening in a few of the country was a 120000000 people updates to other countries. and i hope this, our somali brothers and sisters understand this is to the benefit to the region, and there's no just need to have the cream. same question to you. how do you start this becoming mold in the diplomatic spot? look, uh davis. uh, i think the you are accidentally right. we will be neighbors. uh, 4013, nobody's moving out of the region. so madea, i need to be a need to co exist. and the way to court exist is to respect to each other to sovereign, and it's totally on integrity and unity. so obviously not undermine if you will be out by dealing with these regions. you obviously do the same commercial ties have happened before, can happen again with the entire region. somebody joins east african community. hopefully they will be able to join one day. we're looking for a pan african system not to divide and undermine each other. it's intent enough territories, but to collaborate and find success and when,

when situation that comes only if we respect each other and not tell each other. thank you very much. all 3 of you for joining us today. i'll guess samuel gets it you jamal to ally of the green gemma, if you've joined us, hopefully through today's discussion or if the phone rang at some point we've got you covered. you can watch this in any of our programs at any time by getting to a website out. is there a don't call me if you have your own thoughts or comments on this issue. post them at all facebook page. that's facebook dot com. forward slash ha, inside story. you'll find us on x at h a inside story from the james space and the team here in bo. huh. please stay safe. i'll see you again. very soon. bye bye. for now the, the devastating strikes followed by here where we chris because that's 1st responders know the new

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