to follow the story of no ways in the oldest little calls, let us salute the government of norway. horace, remarkable in nurturing the secret negotiations and why it's promised peace has remained unfulfilled, a strong decided terms of the negotiations. nobody could show or go home. the price of also on notice here a deal between if you, if you're in the break away region of somebody land involving a new naval base as further west and diplomatic relations with some of the government is furious at the agreement, which would give landlocked ethiopia, access to the see, why is this dispute listening? and because of the why the consequences. this is inside story, the

hello that on james base, somalia has ordered out if he's on baset over cold it's own from addis ababa and demanded the to if you, if you and culture, let's be shut down. the route between the neighbors has sent it on a deal. if you it is done with somebody lined the brakes away, reaching plain by somalia, part of the agreement would give landlocked ethiopia access to the red sea so far it's only a diplomatic dispute, but the relations of listening and causing serious concern internationally will be expanding. why during the program and asking what might happen next, but to examine the background to all of this in more detail, this report from when we call some sharif to simmer intentions between somalia and a to p. a. a now a full blown diplomatic dispute. somalia has expelled it to p as a bus to recall its own boy from just above the an old of the closure of tools that's considered that's in response to a comfortable should put deal between it to appear on the break lead region of some

of the land the agreements made in january has led to a world of fluids between the 2 sites. what's new is that the field here, which has long said that it would not be the 1st government to recognize somebody lands independence. it wouldn't be the 2nd seems to have adjusted the view and decided to take the, the next step, which is to say that they would deal with some other land as an independent state. they have long standing security, economic and political ties. so this is really just a step forward. i'll be a dramatic one that has irritated the government involved issue under a memorandum of understanding the m o u. some money land has allowed its land lock neighbor to least part of its coastline. but he'll po wants to set up a naval base and a commercial report on the red sea. in exchange, if you hope you're offered to recognize the brake fluid region as an independent

nation. smalley line, seated from somalia more than 30 years ago. but its independence is not the international you've recognized. among the issue consist, tamani land part of its territory in an interview without just leave or in january, somebody as president has some shake must move a choose add a step above or for next thing a part of what the complete claims as its own. the issue is not with this to be access to the see the city to access for all somebody where everyone is somebody above the question is how, how do they want to to access the c by next impact of somebody drinking the voters? so maria, this is what's going on right now. it is not a commercial to do this on a next station. often a to the latest runs of tensions between somalia, i need to be a, have been stunned by another somalis region pumpkin is a federal member state of somalia. and as announce a new cooperation agreement with addis ababa pumpkin has refused to recognize

amendments to somalia as constitution made earlier this week. and is making most woods more autonomy by pulling out of somalia as federal system and wants to govern themselves independently. what links this amount of land and portland issues is a deep p o, p a, has this m o, u, with some of the land. and yesterday, invite to the delegation from portland to add a sub of to discuss enhanced relations between ethiopia and portland. and that seems to have pushed them on issue or the somalis, federal government to take the steps of expelling if you're open. diplomats. the deal is raising tensions in the home of africa. a region already facing immense politically in stability for the bodies to in the red sea. the hooting forces have been attacked in ships and um, being hit by the us and u. k. and the consumption of these entre sierra for inside story.

well let's discuss all of this now with all guess today on skype, from just out of a samuel get to choose a political come and types of specializing in ethiopia. joining us from london, this trauma alley. he's an activist with the u. k, somali lambda lions. i don't skype from his stumble, abdul karim gemma is the chair of the heritage institute for policy studies, a think tank based in the somali capital. mogadishu, thank you. all of you for joining us today. now i've covered a lot of diplomatic stores in my time, and normally when i'm researching them, i think the best thing to do is go and have a look at the key documents involved. what do you try and look for this memorandum of understanding that was signed on the 1st of january? and you can actually find a copy of it. the basic deal is to lease a land 20 kilometers of the coastline from somalia. and by you see ip at 450 is, isn't that samuel, but why don't we have all the details when they've been quiet so far? the,

to open government us with less the somali and government. but what we know so far, the basis of the agreement is to allow ethiopia to use a port in somali land in exchange for a share of perhaps a share and one of off because or if not the best, the most profitable airlines in africa, which is a to open airlines, but the prime minister has been saying from the get go, that's april pollution of at least 120000000 needs some kind of for it. and that's why this was signed. you have to remember that todd, so monte and also signed a deal was due by based dp world. and we didn't see a person that's a position to it from somalia. and we are as surprised as anyone that there is no position to something that's going to be changing the make up for the story of this continent that has been prone to conflict and firemen and soul. so for, but the underlying issue is the fuel that needs some kind of for it to be so

sufficient and feed a patient that's in need shawn. okay. yes, we mentioned that by samuel of a previous deal in 2017, which seemed to collapse for ip here to take a state in the, in the existing port, the bubble wrap ports. there's an argument that some of the land spent but one but once before and tell us with regard to this particular plan, your understanding is this just enable base or is it also a commercial port? because i sort of seen different views on this. dave is thank you very much for having me festival. ah, that's an interesting question, but i disagree. i don't think it's the case of someone being but and kind of country hasn't been bent. i think what we saw, what we've seen is that so mining, then an s t o p are all ready to actually be a pioneer in africa. they've shown africa and the well that they're ready to collaborate on a win win principle to ensure prosperity, peace,

and development in the region. they want to show the, well, actually, africans can work together. and by working together, we will achieve our goals and targets. and that's just a matter of fact. so that be and in 2016, i guess was being negotiated, but you know how it deals all this still is exactly the same, the details i currently be, i am out. i interviewed the for a minister of somebody that the republic of somebody that a couple of days ago. and he said that the technical aspect of the deal is almost complete, and very shortly the details of the agreement will be ironed out and somebody that'll be in a democratic peaceful country. and as a result of, you know, uh, conditions on its clinic, its constitution will actually present the deal to parliament. so this bill will not be hidden. it will be one that follows due process and which will be rectified by the parliament and so on. and i didn't had a case and then present it to the well, but we comp put the cart before the horse abdul karim. then why is somalia so upset

a thank you, james. the, i think the, the, the session is that basically, if you will be, in this case, is proposing to take part of somalia and cut off another part and make it into a separate country. i don't believe any, some prospecting country in the world will accept to that. this is no different than some of the making deals with the ticket a or on how to vision or auto mia and offering to give them recognition and know, taking some parts of if you will be a and adding it to each tennis or simply put that's the issue and this is an issue between 2 solver and countries said being somalia, i need to be a not to between the regions of somalia and other countries. that is the issue attend, but it isn't present the it is up to create

a little bit more complicated than that, isn't it? because small the land, many would say, is a defacto country. the decisions of the president all the parliament in mogadishu have no effect in, in somalia, and then it's been the situation for full full for since 1991. so this is, this is well over 3 decades. that's the government in mogadishu. and i know that's why you will based, doesn't really have any control of us, of all the lambda tools at the fair point to james. uh, the truth of the matter is that no country in this world as supports and recognizes somebody not as a separate country. so monte land itself, uh, does not agree on a succession or becoming a separate country that our thoughts, 5 families in some of the land and 4 of them and half of the other do not recognize the idea of secession. i happen to be from that same region,

one 3rd of that to british territories of uh for much somebody line uh has been uh, add clarity of uh, how to get you sent us over to use and its military, and is now a recognized part of samaria se optima a and out of the region and market region do not accept and half of the people in how to go to and um, but how do not accept this assessment? so this is not a happy go lucky, peaceful democratic country that has a unanimous mission that it's approaching and it's the whole world recognize the best part of somalia. even if the so molly, i saw that these do not operate in, in, in how to do so. well, let's look at what the 2 countries have signed the deal. somali land an easier if you get from the deal. shamika. if i can you just heard the abdul karim saying, no country recognizes somali line, but that is the point of this deal, isn't it easier to is going to recognize somali line?

it's going to become the 1st the days general of the issues here. is that a lot of commentators that you see on your international in these terms like yours are be intellectually dishonest. so money land stands in the right as it's cases but the legal tomorrow. and i want to go around the tribal arguments or emotional arguments, but i'll give you the facts very quickly. so my line is below the state when it comes to somebody, i'm actually most of the countries that it's neighbors with somebody i have received its independence on the 26th of june, 1960 before i, as i said, most of its neighbors i, it took a recognizes the stock and that's why nothing will change it the it should show because it looks to be good. let's not just select bits of history events. they choose to join the somalia and become a component parts of small here it was free choice, then goes into $196.00 this that's absolutely not james. this is the status see

that's presented on to the media. if you want to look at the details in terms of what happens if it's the, it was an actual legal union. what happened was someone in parliament at the time dropped to the julian in a greek event with the representatives from somebody else. and actually what happened was somebody tell you, i did what i call an economy and the job on the cdn on past the completely different active union which and fx rented that so called active duty and nothing void from the get go. and actually if i give you a very quick example and a very quick history less that i'm show you will cover this in the future. in 1961, a british judge based in somebody are actually trying to, uh, pretty uh, somebody and soldiers for a crew that it come to the 1961. and he found, and he rolled that he could not center steve of soldiers who attempted the 2 because there was no active union which was rectified. i mean being that the legal,

this happened in the sure. so tonight to tell them you that, you know, we joined with somebody. yeah, i personally disagree. and what i say is it was an illegal occupation and we have because of the catherine shifflett, i'm talking about the alex. they should have so many of the territories, but i just want somebody lined up with an extra 1960, on the 20, you've done your history that we have done your history lesson. but we've got a lot of things to discuss about today here. if you don't mind, samuel, what does he to you if you get out of this deal? i suppose that's pretty obvious. when you look at the fact that easy i appear is the 2nd largest country by population in africa. are often nigeria, and it is landlord, it has no access to the c. let's just put everything in perspective. the somali got the somalia and government in mogadishu can hardly control the cubs density and the property control a few buildings in mogadishu and that's it. but the reality is,

the somalia, non government has been signing deals with different countries. and if you're there is no going to be the 1st country that's going to be recognizing somebody now. and it's also tie one. but the reality is this would give you access to a 4th that's needed, a tool that has a fast growing population, at least 120000000 by an estimation. uh, and this would give you access to a c's and it's would give a mutual benefit to somebody like government, including a share. and if you open it, like i said, so this is going to be a shared prosperity between somebody line and ethiopia. and hopefully it will also reach somalia. again, you know, we, we have your cell from, like, myself, we've covered this country for the last 3 years. this region, this country has been going for, you know, conflicts and war and the last 3 years. it doesn't need another conflict. what if

you need so i think you'll get, proposes is unengaged, you meant to somalia, then engagement to somebody not to try to bring this to a conclusion. and so it's going back and forth between i'd be some of the and, and what condition doesn't tell us. but this is going to move forward the country according to the, to open government and it's needed to a band. i hope it goes, it moves forward. i'm doing korean, bring us up to date. now the latest developments, somalia, a spelling, ethiopia is i'm boss of the recalling its own ambassador and demanding that to in consulates be closed. why is this happening now? because the original announcements of the deal was in january. what's the, what is the spock now? and dave, it's a good question. uh, i think the, obviously, the, the, the problem in the city was that you see will be a, has decided to make an agreement uh, with a regional. so molly, uh,

namely somebody line and that was the problem and that's that m o, you did not find any support from any country, no african country, european and us united nations, all the multilateral organizations, african union, and e got the islamic countries non aligned countries. now we have, we have been made to understand that by the powers that are mediating on this issue, that for all practical purposes, the m. o. u will be walk back by if you will be a and that to that issue is not going anywhere. it will not happen. in fact, it, uh there was an effort to, to uh, find a face saving way of walking that back. uh, that has not happened. a meeting that was requested with the president of somebody on the prime minister did not take place at now when, if you will be, i gave me one of the regents of some of the name of the plan to make

a new agreement. that is a blatant index, it happens in the internal affairs of somebody. yeah. uh oh, the problem is do you have the recurring just to be clear? the fact that a senior official from putting the but i think it was the finance minister, was on a formal visit to ethiopia, just days before the decision was made to take out the ambassador and to withdrawal . somali is um by so the that may have been the spock for this the efforts that were being made by other countries to mediate between somalia and you see will be, uh, uh, were making some progress. uh uh, and the now you, if you will be a, has a put out a statement that, that they want to make an agreement with another region of somebody in this case pump land. yes. and without wind ignoring at that, this is part of this over in the country called somalia. just as the case was with somebody land, then then it was necessary for the so many government as,

as they put it to make the statement and expel the investigator. and close the, the, the order of the closing of the consulates. as i mentioned earlier, this is no different than somalia making deals with the regions of youth yorba without the involvement and knowledge of the federal government or if you feel okay, sean monica closing costs. so that i know that's in who goes up the capital of some of the line. they actually call it an embassy. the easier if an embassy rather than consulate the somalia, have any power to close that? does it have any ability to do what it's just ordered? to absolutely not change. 5 the reality is it will have 0 impact on the ground, like somebody is usually a tense. it's usually 10, so variously, undermining someone that is just a continuation in terms of somebody as publishing towards somebody that actually

last year and best of the day to day. but sure, i strongly presented his credentials to president most a, b, c. i be of somebody not to an administration or entity in the position of so how can they even tell i thought and best of that to go home. it doesn't make sense games. it's almost like somebody attending germany to close that and the same from like it, what would happen, in essence, somebody that has about as much impact on somebody. i'm as a student representative of the model you where we'll talk a no impact on the ground, in my opinion. thank you. samuel people will talk about the security implications of this. because clearly you still have fighting going on in somalia. you still have, i'll show bob in somalia and you still have an african union mission. it was called amis. so i'm, it was then replaced by the african union transition. my mission at thomas. and that has e c o, p, in troops,

subbing in somalia. do you think they will be able to stay? do you think there's any possibility ip might pull them out all that somalia might order them out as well. hopefully they will stay because they have been important to open troops have been important to the reality of some of the but let me go back and address your guess. she keeps saying you're comparing what's happening into somebody not in portland to, to an example. she's giving about to cry or the region. so if you'll give it to be a cause of functioning government, if you open government controls, 100 percent of the nation that is affected. so it's difficult to compare the experience. so if you feel bad to what's happening in somalia, again, the symbolic of the somalian government can hardly control mogadishu, lead loan, somebody, alonzo, pork loud. and that's why they to open government decided to deal with the some of the non government. and i hope there will be some kind of compromise. i hope there will be some kind of understanding by them. oh, god issue,

government that this deal is important. i know just the field because what's happening if you will be out of states the whole region. but i hope they jump and troops space. but again, we've seen a tax on a fuel pen since us in somalia in the past week. and that has yet to be decided by the to pin function in government. again, to your guess, she should stop comparing what's happening into the open regions to his country. his country needs to be improved as his country needs support and it needs to work with its neighboring countries to move forward as of cream. let me bring you back to you in on the security implications of this. because our show by, i'll show bob also opposes this new deal for a naval base. and there are some analysts saying that all of this, this big route could help. i'll show bob, recruit. what do you think of that? and no doubt, i addressed the 1st to the issue that the sir mark had mentioned. uh which ease,

uh, which has to do with the lack of authority or somalia. every major international activity, whether it's the financing facility of everything that goes on in somebody line or the part of the better put a extension or a money constant. it's all come with the clear admission of somalia. the airplanes that land in had a gauge that have permission from somalia to facilitate people who lives there at going there. and he knows that. and so this idea that there is no authority is it is not accurate. if you will, the does not close these missions. it is not like the, somebody's will send out an army, but that means you to be will not recognize somebody as a country, which means somebody will not recognize the feel be as a country and will deal with it to stop component to. so that is not an issue at hand to, to go to the security of your colleagues, our colleague from a, this of, of our mentions that some of the, uh, it doesn't control each country. but if you will be controls, i was in this of,

of oper the african union a couple of week few weeks ago and have been advised that in all directions. i cannot go out of i this of about except to buy plane because of that level was that around, if you will be, is as dysfunctional as any country in the world. now that are waters in every corner. it doesn't control most of the regions. and uh, it just defaulted on its basic payments so, so malia doesn't have the same problem that are 80 plus any groups at every, but each of the others throat. somebody is one nation, one people, few political issues, but nothing compared to the problem is that if you up, yeah. so i don't think use a competitor to summit is a very well, you'll know twice that, sorry, quickly, quickly samuel and quickly the, you know, you know, he said he was in the south of and he was told what's happening and outside departments that were more, we can hardly go to the dc and get out of a hotel per se, and to compare what's happening in ethiopia,

the challenges. so he's, he will be out to the challenge of system aaliyah that's day and night. and i, i think he should just come out of the, you know, of the bible and see what's happening if you open somalia and understand this decision to give it, you'll have access with benefits his country as much as if you open somebody on sean. micah is everyone in some of the lands. i know you're in london right now, but is everyone convinced by this deal because i saw, but soon after the deal was announced, somali mac loans own defense minister, resigned and said if you, if it remains our enemy against, you know, the interesting fact as somebody is usually tries to use that as a negative, but actually in my view, it's a positive. so model number is a democracy allows for alternate views, allows for people to hold the free opinions. it was his right to recite, and it says, any citizen of somebody that constitutional rights to oppose. but however,

that's not the case on the ground. the majority support this deal because they see that the teacher is bright for somebody. that recognition is important. relations with your kids important, unless somebody is just trying to distract from its internal fields where they're coming to provide 0, public services, all the embassy, so co embassies, they talk about are based in bunkers in holland. they provide nothing for the citizen. so rather than focusing somebody that somebody should focus on securing its government in the shoot, what else about making considerable gains? not because of some of the agreement with your job, but actually because of somebody is action. someone. okay, well, i'd like to bring it in. so, i mean, i'd like to bring in some real quickly, we don't have a lot of time, samuel, but how do we stop this? it's diplomatic route. how do we stop this escalating? we? i mean, we need the feed coming in. we need some kind of conversations this, this continent, this region hasn't been not more, i for many, many years. and they need to sit down and bridge the differences and come up with

a conclusion because what's happening in the field country was a 120000000 people updates to other countries. and i hope this, our somali brothers and sisters understand this as to the benefits of the region, and there's no just need to have the cream. same question to you. how do you stop this becoming mold in the diplomatic spot? look, uh davis. uh, i think the you are accidentally right. we will be neighbors. uh, 4013, nobody's moving out of the region. so madea, i need to be a need to co exist. and the way to court exist is to respect to each other to sovereign, and it's totally on integrity and unity. so obviously not undermine if you will be out by dealing with its regions. if you abuse you do the same commercial ties have happened before can happen again with the entire region. somebody joined the east african community. hopefully they will be will join one day. we're looking for a pan african system not to divide and undermine each other in terms of territories,

but to collaborate and find success and a win win situation that comes only if with respect to each other and knocked at each other. thank you very much. all 3 of you for joining us today. i'll guess some you'll get it you sure mock ally of the cream gemma. if you've joined us, hopefully it's through today's discussion or the phone rang at some point. we've got you covered. you can watch this in any of our programs at any time, but getting to a website out is there a don't call me if you have your own thoughts or comments on this issue. post them at all facebook page that is facebook dot com, forward slash h a inside story. you'll find us on x at h a inside story for me, james, based on the team here. and though ha, please stay safe. i'll see you again. very soon. bye bye. for now, the, it is only from the rwandan genocide, the same as remembrance will burn in honor of the of 800000 lives to perished. with my screen still being found

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award official website, w, w, w dot h t a dot q a forward slash e m. the slabs. the whole rob and the whole with adult stories here on alger 0, pressure is mounting old as well to deliver on its problem is to open new roots into garza, for food on tea, monetary and aid israel's plans to open the edits. crossing came after a phone call from president joe biden, you and secretary general montane guitar. roche has said that it needs to quickly materialize, calling the situation in gauze, desperate united nations equity general montagnier guitar. i said that while he welcomes, as well as the announcement piece that it needs to quickly materialize, calling the situation cause a desperate.