stay out of college and everything is a feminist issue to on hud voices. we see our leadership destroying the ability to have a normal life in god. and that the stories that really feel us having a normal life. elizabeth connects with our community and tap into conversations you weren't find elsewhere. there is no over there. it is. all right, here and right now the stream on out to the right. why is pol castanan expelling african refugees? i've got a strong sense of move is a legal pockets. donnen says it's for security reasons. is this politically motivated and how will tell about officials deal with the many thousands of people who may be arriving? this is inside store the hello that on james phase. hundreds of thousands of ass guns being forced to leave

pockets still on his part of the government crackdown. many of lives for decades and consider that home. but the pockets done, the government blames up guns for search and attacks by all groups. human rights campaign is say that the protections violate international law. many refugees face dangers if that falls to return to afghanistan, and we'll discuss all of this with our panel of guest shortly. but post this report from, for them on the visa scans are headed for an uncertain future. many have lived in pockets down for decades and call it their home. but now they've been told they have to leave the they to move in 40 years since we migrated to pocket stone. many of us were born here. we have businesses here many of working as labourers. it would be very difficult to return to a country where there is no education, no health facilities, and no work. full social security is our major concern. for the audio of one, it was him that this would be great,

just focused on granted us citizenship. often we spent decades here as guns are peace loving people. we don't want any conflicts or war as we will made victims of war. and today we are in the middle of nowhere. for around $4000000.00 afghans live in pockets done with nearly half believe to be undocumented. as many as 800000 fled here after the taliban took power in 2021. but now the pockets telling the government is cracking down its ordering hundreds of thousands to leave voluntarily . those who refused will face arrest and deportation. a half a 1000000 have already left, and that's now expanding to include those with pockets. donnie identity documents focused on his justifying this on national security grounds. there's been up search and attacks by our groups, and the government accused many ask gun nationals of involvement. yap, guy and government has criticized the deportations saying they violated international law rights groups like amnesty pitbulls who condemned the policy as

arbitrary and lacking transparency. but despite the pressure pockets done, it determined to continue leaving many with little choice, but to leave a place they've called home for decades. fence and monahan how to 0 for inside story. the, we're going to dive deeper now into pocket stones plan and its consequences with all panel today. and as long as the middle of a free because the social worker by trade, who's also a public posted policy specialist in kabul. fi is all and professor of political science and cobble university is also the chief executive of the peace development and democracy organization. i'm in washington dc. devin code, the senior advocate for women and girls, refugees, international. thank you. all of you for joining us today. let me start with, you know, the, i know you don't represent the they puck, us down government,

but explaining to us why is pockets don kicking out all of these off guns on this. thank you, james. if this is a complex, a question and beyond, sir, it is not simple and he's gone to be explained in without looking at many aspects of it. but in short, these a game being played and messaging between uh, some of the government and our security agencies which manage the site or alcorto policy in particular. now i added the dollar bond government. i'm as you know, the buttons one came into power. unfortunately, no one is done with the assistance and the becky of the international community and certainly up to the door by some of odd. and now they have a problem in this relationship, primarily by the,

the type of interest at the thought obama support thing which a in, back to security forces. and of course, the civilian populations and creating in security on this side of all border in the middle of this messaging and or gone slate or by natural conflict, the most valuable most effected. we have in boxes. don had a launch, we've gotten them now in modern languages, refugees, but the, the, it's a symbiotic relationship between amman living on the west side and bundle just on and keep the tribute but doing for a populations. we are one people in your all along. so to speak, but in 2 countries. so it's a symbiotic relationship and the is an ancient of back and forth and living trading set, their minds manages, you know, thoughts, book, culture,

etc. so when the 2 states decides to stop talking to each other, when there is a weakness in the relationship, it's these populations which are undocumented in the modern sense, of course, traditionally on both sides are the 1st victims of this. so okay, we are, let me, let me bring in fights in kabul about this price. i mean, i was lucky and if it goes i've gotten refugees. are the 3rd largest the space population in the world off to syrians and ukrainians. many of these people of fled many, many years ago. i mean, it's been for say, more than 40 years of conflict, enough kind of stuff to to uh, gems that said, but i sent the explanation of uh gun marjorie not outgunned, refugees from focused on its the more directly connected to the box on

government. and i just establishment political pressure on friday, but on to and i wrote the policies to out of the no support in the region for pakistan. it's not only the kind of form focused on to ask the button to fight again. it's due to be by call, so they cannot make the uh, there's a say once i martinez the and also the one to the fed as or on the button to be under the wing go to control. and so you know, of guns. busy of been dead for more than 40 gigs. some of these are going to see a claim when they already turn into cause what i've done is done that they have all the legal documentations. now they have the gun citizen cards. some of them are having reserves and all those legal documentation which in spiker for the legal documentation. they have been up there devoted to man within a 24 hours. since some of the many, many of these,

the refugees would have been exposed from a pack a box on top gun is. i'm going not to live in getting that when i close was send it to the do to line my last number of them, of living and job to you send a we had the security in the situation was far more better than the student i'm trying to do is line to assign it to you and i was really starting north and south . so all those claims that connecting good, connecting to my of the future expulsion from focused on to the, to, to be a problem. i think the, those are the yeah. not evidence based in the my father's intake of my claims. okay, well it's just a few things you mentioned. the ttp is the pocket stone tabano. the durham line is the de facto border between afghanistan and pakistan. just so i'll view, is there a way devon this started last year?

did it not phase one this i'm told it was about half a 1000000 of of guns were repack created. they were ones with no papers, a tool as i understand it. now it's phase 2 people who have been issued with something called an ask um, citizen cod. so these are people that had don't comments to be in pockets, dawn and it seems like pockets. dawn is now arbitrarily changing. the village as he of the pos is itself. issued, it seems like it's hard luck. we change the rules. we do agree as well. exactly. i mean, the package that has not signed the national refugee convention, so they are little bit different than other states, but they certainly have given atkins legal paperwork like he said to ask him citizen car, which was issued to more than 800000 people. so more than 800000 atkins, that had been in pakistan for many years. i have this legal right to stay in

pakistan or so they thought, but now they are being deported are being asked to return. and of those half 1000000 they've returned last year. you know, some of them weren't deported, but many of them, you know, were forced to return in the sense that they were told. if you don't return your styles, we are going to depart you. and as some of the other people said, people are deployed within 24 hours so. so atkins that were in the pakistan for a long time, didn't want to be deported without any their belongings without any of their family members. so instead, some of them, you know, chose to leave, but we, we actually just international certainly think that, that is compose, you know, that is, that is being coerced, i would say to leave rather than having to be a voluntary returned to tack on a stand. so, so certainly, um, you know, pakistan has given some legal rights to, to refugees and to ask ends. but not enough. and those 800000 people with um i scan citizenship cards like you said, or in the next ones being you know, targeted and wave of deportations. then if i back to you,

um this 1st phase that took place at the end of last year was on the interim government because pocket's done, how did selections turned out to be pretty controversial elections. now you have a new prime minister share basel sharif, who's in office, and it's the new government that's instituting phase 2. is that the bates on this impact? hassan? is it controversial? i told there is a case the supreme court. so we have something called a moment or 2 hours in focused on, so the government's common goal. but the 2nd foreign policy decisions remain in the on elected a box, which is the bombing and power. and certainly the owner see the um, you mean the army, the exact so they make the decisions, these are the, you know, uh, i would relationship with alanis on. and it really does not take into consideration

what the sentiment as such are. but in this particular case of the sentiment oh, towards the hans, for example, amongst the pursuing population in a box on really very different to those in a job and grouchy. so like as one of the finalist from probably mentioned back, you know, they've been picked up many of on refugees had been picked up from punjab and in send, send them particular has a problem, you know, with the book doing population, whether they are on or whether the fox on you citizens do it, feeds into an existing do you know to be are as well and the i a fear or be minority within their own. you know, uh cities in uh providence and in particular um and in punjab any way they're still

disconnected from anything outside of the punjab that they pretty much follow the b line of what the stablish ment happens to be thinking at that time. so i would, i've answered that question. uh, okay, let me, let me bring in devon now about the legality of this. as we see here, there's a, there's a case in the pocket stone supreme court, but um, the international law is this legal? um you mentioned earlier on the 1951 refugee convention pocket's done is not a signal treat to that until the main principal of this is something called no food, no reform, all which is the principle of a refugee should not be returned to a country where they faced serious threats to their life or freedom. those thoughts apply to park a stop. well, certainly not as long as it is in a principle that applies to all states, whether they sign the refugee convention or convention or not. i mean it's,

it's against the law to return people to places where they will face essentially case torture of where their human rights will not be recognized. um, so, so certainly the principle itself is important and then applies to pakistan. also, i think we need to be aware that you know this, we're talking about this phase 2 of deportations. and this is for the act in citizenship cardholders. but the proof of registration card holders are the only legally recognized refugees in pakistan. and while they have been told they are not part of this plan, they could be in the future. and certainly we've also seen that even in this 1st phase of deportations, some people have proof of registration cards for the part as well. so, and, you know, police and the pakistani authorities don't necessarily always go to law. they're not, you know, it depends on where they are and who they are as to how they're going to implement . and just to be to minute, just to be clear, devin, the proof of registration, todd, which is the one that is supposed to at least guarantee you the ability to stay

that that was jointly issued by the government to boxed on you and i see all the un agency, i'm told you haven't been able to get one of those for 15 years, but not issued the, the last, the day they issued them in 2007 was the last time he issued them. now they sometimes get prof registration cards to children. a people have registration cards, but other than that did not issue new proof registration cards to anyone just becoming recently. so for example, we were in pakistan last year speaking to people who had fled since the taliban to power and were, you know, extreme risk, especially for their individual, you know, work or identities. and they cannot get approved registration cards. so certainly anyone after 2021 has not been able to get them. but like he said, since 2007, they have not issued new ones. price from these people who all the in pockets. dawn, as he was saying earlier, many of lift that for decades. in fact some of them have lived in pockets dawn

longer. they've lived in afghanistan. if it gets worse than that, some of them were born in pockets. dont know i've done this on a tow truck that's very true. i unfortunately have my focused on government to my the into them the previous and also the current government and the, the item you be. busy my doing all this job guns just to disrupt the, to the public opinion from the failure to said that you had in the past few years, especially in a political australia to solve the government that they could said the previous government to make complete the, to them and then have my tumbling down and brown hot in his government and then having the election there is of course the election as everybody knows is not the we the. busy the deluxe dani and the nation and the people to be with assuming the route and the zip code. so frigging and. busy my laptops. busy because uh uh, uh,

controversies, uh that has uh, created a new government. so it's much more in florida and that domestic consumption search just to disrupt like opinion the tico we the publics. uh huh. the sentiment from uh the main to the penny. it is of the government, the army within the country. they are blaming golf guns, 12 live data cloud for no. busy and many of them have been given said data to be a good life depfa contribution to the economy. they have gotten to future to the stability but good, not blaming, you know, each and every one know 4 on the affinity is that the governmental faced. i've been reading through some of the reports from human rights organizations and the fact like human rights watch and amnesty international, i say, as well as these deportations, that means all sorts of facility towards this community,

including from the place. please bring things, not raid priest demanding bribes, confiscating jewelry, live stock, bulldozing homes. what do you make of those sort of reports? yes, it is unfortunate. i mean, i'm from a town called machine, which was a, have a 50 percent, would be a long refugees who have settled there for forever on. and when the deportations were happening, it was the largest in gunman gas. so the feedback that one was getting was exactly um, as we were saying that in, you know, like uh, in an undocumented landscape where you're dying, it's a invisible, there's very limited media coverage to put this on. not accounted for the impact on the economy of the area by a mover of this hon. population which has been very much parked in integrated

into the grid economy, whether documented regarding the you aren't documented. but it certainly is part of the economy of that, of just on and to some extent in get, be, has had a dire impact as when. so yes, they have been and they have been stories as well on, you know, the and why the board thing, you know, are these are a legally activities by the police and the default to the 14 year agencies and heis. one of the things i'm told is that the pockets tony of sources have limited how much money you can take out of pocket st on to 50000 pockets down rupees. that's about a $175.00. so these people, many of whom had the money and had businesses in some cases arriving in afghanistan . destitute and does, we've heard 30 poor,

so you cannot make situations in pockets, dawn, but it's what i saw on your side of the board. was it not that suited to that serve my very panic? and when did it to then talk on a sunday term to that? does it a try to touch no country which is not recognized politically, which is under the stick nomic function. so it doesn't cover legitimate government jetta which is which is banning the might the government that if i thought it easier to beginning to go to the school women to participation. so you're facing like a nightmare to go to a push to a far better to an area with that they don't see any future goods as to why many of these people, many of these are guns they have uh my god, under huge in august on and 8 on in the past 3 and a half years and millions of them out for a go through this huge in past 3 or 4 digits. so destruction, water, and catastrophe. so it's really, you know, very much not been expected from

a country a neighboring country, which is established based on the carlo office and muslim unity and the country, which is my my, which has given us about 12 guns during the a completion deal with and get nutrition and being part or for i've gotten it started as a major, collaborate to religion and the support and a bus 2 in our fuse buckets. time has been a coincidence mode as an enemy by these all kind of sort of live data for the gauge . 1212 and twisted the alive stage occasion, their minds and money and the impact to starting the cables that devon and some of these i think i think as i could find about 600000, arrived in the immediate off them off of the telephone takeover in august 2021. some of these people are people like human rights defend is like journalists,

like people who worked for the united states, worked for nato. people who will read me, ask un security forces. how worried? oh you about these people going back and the risk that they might face? i mean all they returning some of them to a death sentence? oh yes, we are incredibly worried which is why we think these deportations are not to mention like the other kind of upset about people having lived in pakistan for decades and making their lives back their people the newly arrived pakistan that left afghanistan because of taliban took over and because they are individually targeted by the child in and they will be upon return. so again, i mean especially i would say women, human rights defenders and female journalists and women that really stood up against the ideals of the taliban. little tab in are now in charge and they are at great risk. they and even, you know, the women many girls more generally. i mean, they're going back to why do you and others have called

a gender apartheid state. so that it's not, you know, we're worried about them for, for general reasons, but also certainly for specific reasons like you said, because some of them were specifically working with united states with other western allies and working on ideals that are contrary to the taliban and put them at great risk, they return and we have no way to protect them. i mean, we have no way to help them really or protect them and they get some assistance upon arrival. but after that day, they're really on their own. and, and that's incredibly concerning. notify on that issue of the women and girls because some have said that women and goes now live most of their lives enough kind of stone on that's on the effective house arrest. these african women in pockets, dawn who some of them have jobs. the raf gun goals, some of them who were going to school or university. what's your reaction to to that site now? okay. um, before i understood that i want to respond that you know,

the international community which brought the thought back to of on his son and supported it and pushed it and uh, fox. the son was supposed to be for at pocket stone was the telephones biggest support. it wasn't not a pushed by the by the americans that don't last you know, uh, alliance and negotiations pushed and lobbied by the americans and would be of hon. refugees in boxes. don, let's not forget to be americans by natural, as you will need, c, r has stopped funding the refugees. why in boxed on. so a box on which is under enormous economic spiraling down. um, as pointed out by our panelists as well, hasn't started using the outlines as the low hanging fruit to locate the

books. but to go back to my point on the book, go back to my point on the women and girls, though, i mean you're terrified for all you know, like the rest of the panel about what might happen to these people, of course. absolutely. but then why did the international community support the dollar bonds coming into power? i mean, those of us who have been fighting for human rights and democracy and women's rights, both in focused on was certainly not in support of the international community. pushing that donavon coming into a harness on the want to go back to face the at the end because we've been talking over this program about pockets, dawn. but there is another perspective. another aspect to this, there are ask guns being the policy to some from to key, but huge numbers from the wrong as well in the ip. yes. but the, the, the partition that is happening from a to key audit on. it's too many delay,

but the probation like that they, they don't uh, the default and my spark is done is doing good. the family's one second. the those do petitions happen somehow in quite the nation with the the defect. i thought of these here in the cop when they do the paper, to what degree do they do concert at the negative process and then that might bring them to my legal to china. it was like, uh it and my florida. but to top one is in the august on its 5 more to get the stuff it can be different because uh, they do mazda partition without considering the leak in the process. you understand with those the, you know, taking depo to authorities. oh, god has done center up in uh the into managing the utilities. uh, but a small uh, support has been provided through unix yet, and i thought he genesee's on the bought it. but what happens later on there is

nothing going on. nobody knows what you know, nothing, nothing going on. if you look at the international appeal of full afghanistan's $3000000000.00 us dollars for 2024, it is currently only 7 percent funded. thank you very much for all guess today for joining us and that a, a for the kazi fi salanda on devin code. we do this program 7 days a week and you can watch it at any time on our mobile app or on the website out. is there a dot com? were you and once your contribution to what do you think about the expulsion of that of guns? what do you think we should discuss next time? add your comments on facebook. facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story on x while we are at a inside story from the james space and the team here, please stay safe. bye bye. for now the, i think it's this is

a privilege to get to the heart of the story amplified the voices of those who have been found out by the noise is a 4 is my driving force is what pushes me to take risks facing the trying to find that challenge and the huge responsibility we keep politicians and decision makers in check. so the devastating human cost of their decisions working about 0 enables me to make the other voices relevant to so that there's more that unites us. then divide tennessee in the gaza strip as is continues. there's a deliberate mission of posting and humanity in western media. and it needs to be question, sustains coverage that actively humanize as,

as readings and actively humanizes palestinians. this is not the time for doing this kind of way. tracking those stories examining the journalism and the effect that news coverage can have on democracies everywhere. here at the list, think that's the legal goals, mind is threatening the survival of the brazilian, amazon sienna, monique people, the forest and the planets ecosystem. with a counter offensive because underway, as the tribal chiefs had to your gold club, the corridors of power not to seek help to demand the world. the warnings of its indigenous people holding up the sky. a witness documentary on the jersey though this is took, took is the 1st country in the world to develop a comprehensive, sustainable tourism program. partnership with the global, sustainable tourism comes village lives here, retains its strong remedial is like

a feast from the farm to the tape. hundreds of excavations and restoration. this country is a place to slow down and enjoy the simple things coming to discover the natural, historical and cultural beauties. the, [000:00:00;00] the hello, i'm elizabeth bonham and this is the news our life and our hawk coming out for the next 60 minutes. the widespread destruction in gaza is rarely strikes to store palestinian homes. the most of the strip. catherine took k, a quote for regional de escalation. that's got those 5 minutes to it says the country is reassessing its role as

a mediation between this rather homos ron's presidents. as those forces are ready