is where the forces bombarded the gaza strip for 50 days. resident of the coming to the death and devastation seems to the eyes of palestinian capital mind lead, hama, who films and strikes the 2 thousands of life. including its own garza, the last picture on, on a global outcry after the discovery of mass graves into gaza hospitals. israel is under pressure to provide answers, but will it and how will it be held to account? this is inside store the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoy them. more bodies have been found in mass graves and gaza after is really forces withdrew from then also the

end of the shift medical compounds they had besieged for weeks. the policy and civil defense says there is clear evidence these really army committed crimes against humanity by carrying out summary executions, the u. n. and e. you were calling for urgent investigations and the us so that once answers to international law demands a through and independent inquiry to uncover the truth behind these depths and ensure accountability below israel ever be held to account for his actions in gaza . we'll put that to our guests in a moment. first, this report from actual assignment which as a whole and think site to the nest or medical facility in con eunice or bodies remain on plaint. evidence of a mask wave has come to light after these early army left the compound. these are not the only victims found in gaza at the beginning of april. similar discoveries were made it i'll chief a hospital following and it's really military operation. satellite images confirm the existence of 2 mass graves and these hospital premises. we feel the need to

raise the alarm to raise the alarm, because clearly, there has been multiple bodies discovered. we don't know how many. there are reports that some of them had their hands tied, which of course indicates a serious violations of international human human rights law and international humanitarian. those women, when did an older people, very deep and covered in waste are among the victims. as the bodies begin to decompose, there's a pressing call for an investigation. experts say, any independent inquiry needs a neutral party. if you want an independent organization, do it, go to a country. if you find one that's willing to go in because that's, that is not engaged in the concrete by the supply of arms or otherwise an awesome. but as i put together our forensic team that will go in and do the job. and i think that happens occasionally in the former yugoslavia where you had a great deal of mass, great work that has to be done. forensic investigations were conducted after mass graves were found in strep, or need so in other towns in boston,

here's the coffee. now, the international commission on missing persons initiated by informing us president bill clinton, helped in identifying victims and prosecuting war crimes with similar investigations under way and ukraine and syria. after the discovery of mess burial sites. many wonder if the international focus will shift the gaza. the question is if his role will allow impartial investigators to enter the strip. since it already stands accused of genocide at the international court of justice. addressing these masked ways is crucial. not only for the family seeking closure, but for the broader goals of finding justice and preventing such acts from happening ever again. axels, i'm gonna reach out to 0 for insights story the . all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guess in durham most or show my guys us citizen journalist who took refuge and officer hospital for months during the conflict in

the hague address. kaiser director for policy and cooperation of the international commission on missing persons and in geneva, kenneth roth, visiting professor at princeton school for public and international affairs and the former executive director of human rights watch. welcome to on. thanks so much for joining us today on inside story month sort. let me start with you today. the palestinian civil defense team says evidence for mass graves in the ground and also the hospital and fun units clearly shows these really warming carried out summary executions. you were in touch with people on the ground there you spent so much time there yourself. what are you hearing of what i'm hearing is that this is yet another mass grave found in another hospital. then another part of was a script. we found something, some of that in the north of was a, in the middle, the region of was in the city itself. and now we're finding it. and most of hospitals around $400.00 bodies have now been found covered in different kinds of plastic covers different colors. many of the people have been identified.

and some of them i have known personally when whether they were nurses, doctors, patients in the hospital, or even women and children who had a residence off the ground in loss of the hospital there. at the same time, many bodies that have been found but have not been identified yet because their lives have been caught that heads up there anymore. many of them have lost that organs and then zipped up again. and it is what on this it is. so really that after over 200, these we are still talking about investigations and 4 and 6 studies where we all know who the perpetrator of the swat crimes are. and to be honest, i don't know for how long the world can stay silent regarding what is happening right now. in addition to this mass of grief and loss of hospital, let me to mind the viewers that, that of tens of thousands of adults,

not only those have been killed and injured, but those who we do not know where they are. so we are a few of them are from or fee of seeing so many other mass grave similar to this $1.00. and what a shame that the international community is still quiet. and it's still not doing anything to stop this genocide. the terms against some of the standing people then husband kenneth gaza, is a war zone. how is it possible to go about gathering evidence when this kind of conflict is going on? and so much evidence can and is being destroyed as well. i think what you speak to is, 1st of all the importance of physical presence. and these raymond government has blocked physical presence both by foreign journalists, but also by human rights defenders. and perhaps the most important because here we're speaking about accountability. they have refused access to investigators from the international criminal court. the dreadful body that has jurisdiction over what

plants and gaza and could very well prosecute the perpetrators here. so it's not impossible to do an investigation in the middle of a war. i mean, this would require, you know, simply cooperation by the most science. i'm sure that, you know, from us would give safe passage to the real question is what israel. but israel doesn't want to get safe passage, doesn't want to allow these kind of independent investigations. it just wants to kind of sweep usual under the bravo, or maybe it'll do what he usually does, which is to say, we're gonna investigate ourselves. which typically results in either we never hear anything again or, or whitewash. and i think it's, you know, that white washing, which is why boasting united nations and the european union have stress the importance of an independent investigation. that means not. and is riley self investigation. now the us government hasn't gone that far. if they have solved age, throw in transparent investigation, but they didn't use the magic word, an independent investigation. but that's what we need. we need somebody other than

the israelis to look at this. and we need access sooner rather than later. because your body's decomposing is more difficult over time to figure out exactly what have andreas, when it comes to mass grave sides and investigating and preserving forensic evidence . how crucial is it that professional forensic experts with the right kind of equipment with the needed resources that they're able to access those sites as quickly as possible so that the sites aren't contaminated? yes, frontier data is absolutely critical about um corporate forensic um investigation successfully about this and test applying for basic archeologist on answer. apologise is my place so critical be some investigation was conducted in an official feinberg. so the question about the music video imposes that solves. i mean, it won't come, mandate effectively. so independent investigation,

i'll be the know the steps have been taken by the united nation. so potentially if i put somebody to find, but if it's on an invitation that's extended to an international organization that kind of assistance such and such investigations. now be fund already in the identification as a victim citation placed about this. um presumably, um, done not necessarily employing scientific means which i'm in cost is something i'm based on. some of these um i tend to few cases. i probably have to have to be uh confirm that i should also be included. and so to apply to the uh, the previous experience of course um is gonna show commission on missing persons. i cmt has been um, extensively assisting us. um excavation has mass, clay funds examinations. recovering victims sometime identifying remains in

support or from the domestic and also international authorities also in the context of the criminal investigations. in particular, i end up for many, for 5 years. so what does the critical to keep in mind to set all the investigations for be done with a few of collecting evidence to a stand up and hold up in a court of law. mm hm. it has to be about um lets perpetrators have a different on the narrative of mass placed them. um the populate or the assist 100 percent at to have sort of convincing account provided refutable evidence of what happened. it is important to have experts of high caliber in boston months or you spoke earlier about the frustration when it comes to hearing international actors and rights, bodies call for investigations and yet still,

atrocities are happening. i want to ask you about the fact that after the discovery of, of this latest mass graves, there are more calls. there are calls from the you in the, you, in for a, for an independent investigation. you have the, the west calling for a transparent investigation. but they're not going as far as calling for an independent investigation. do you, do you think there will be sufficient international pressure now that this could actually happen, or will it be more of the same? unfortunately, i think the way the laws are set up in the world right now, especially on the international stage, is that the support and the one who was the right is the one who is strong. the one who has the power and i know the veto power, right? those in the hands of the us and allies of design a state a. unfortunately, i do not have a lot of a lot of confidence that the international agencies can do anything. i remember when i wasn't and also the hospital together with tens of thousands of others of

refugees in the hospital and in the schools around us. we were told by these international agencies that we were in a safe place. we were on the safe zone that the idea for not attack and death, we have nothing to where do we have nothing to fear. however, on one morning the idea came in with the trucks with the, with the cook, with them forklift with the tanks, with their soldiers. and i talked, the people inside the school was inside the also hospital and forced deep and like myself to sleep. and in addition to that, it took with its hundreds of lives. it's like we're talking about 2 different part of the world. see if you have talking about the world where the theory and human rights talk about what should and will happen. but the reality is that what is happening right now, kind of wait for these international agencies to talk to us about what should

happen because time is running out, time is running out. and what does happen in most of the hospital now is going to happen soon. in that off, in the hospitals, death to the people there, and the, the blood of these people wouldn't be stains on these international organization that our physicians and these countries around the world claiming human rights and democracies for ever. what is happening right now wouldn't be a stain on everyone right now. who's calling for that? i think to be done, but it's not doing it. we need action enough words, we need action on the ground right now. kenneth, i saw you are reacting there to what month floor was saying he's talking about the fact that as he along with others were housing themselves in these medical complexes that are supposed to be protected under international humanitarian law. and you have time. and again, we've seen these hospitals and medical complexes come under siege in gaza. will

these words translate into action? will israel be held to account for this? what needs to happen for this to stop? well, 1st appointed the hospitals. i mean, the hospitals are present definitely protected. they can lose their protective status if the other side uses them for military purposes. now israel has no history here of saying that from us, you know, for example, the supposed to have a major command center under all shape a hospital. and that was going to justify israel going in. and you know, basically occupying the biggest hospital in gospel, at a point of a shoot, meet at a point where people are being bombed every day. it is exactly when you need a hospital and israel took it over, you know, evacuated the patients. and that was the 1st time they're going to take the original sheet. but you know, when they, at the end of that, to show the suppose the command center, why did they show us, you know, a handful of rifles. you know, a little bit of. busy equipment, one tunnel that

a former is really prime ministers that actually, you know, we have these re lease built back and we patrol gas the city. so, you know, they've been very unsuccessful in demonstrating the military justification for taking over these hospitals and have a sense of what you see as they seem to be recognizing palestinians need for health care in a moment of acute need by depriving them, you know, of the physical facilities, i mean now i think the joe says 10 out of the 36 hospitals are minimal. we functioning, israel's been blockading, you know, really preventing much of the necessary medical equipment from coming in. so, you know, this is a direct assault on the palestinians 1000000000 population. now, you know, this is a good question. well, what can we do about this? and let's talk about both the international court and the us government. because i think these are parallel processing. the internet from federal court. i mean, it is difficult at this moment. it doesn't have permission to go into the office. so something you know, like a mass grave, which really does require

a forensic investigation. as we've just heard, it's going to be hard for it to do that. but there are major war crimes where they get an actual criminal court all already has the evidence. you know, one which is not even about gaza is the settlements. you know, the settlements are a war crime. the violation of article $49.00 of the 4th geneva convention, which prohibits an occupying power from sending its population into occupied territory. turn time. a chief prosecutor has that evidence. the people ordering those settlements are going up to the top. he hasn't done anything. the other thing that he is there, he's taught repeatedly about this. he has the evidence that israel is blocking food . it start patient strategy. he doesn't need a more evidence for insight, gaza, he has that. he's threatened to, i've done it, but he hasn't andreas, let me ask you to follow up on a point that kenneth was making there. besides, how are you reacting to some of what he was saying, what, when it comes to these issues of international justice without an independent

investigation taking place? can the discovery of, let's say, this latest mass grave cannot be added to some of these forms where cases may be happening. like let's say, the international court of justice, the case of south africa brought against israel accusing of genocide and gaza. or if the icpc were to take up the case and get involved later from my experience. but also going back to the former yugoslavia and the tribes thoughts . i took place in the 8 concluding b and the tries off for mr lot. it's on the top to kind of change comes concerning class in on the amount of misled they need. so it is crucial to be able to will provide evidence of the circumstances of the establishment of these last place of who is in these mask race off. um, so that's a dense so from of crime security trauma. so it takes us with the logic of the

explanations of the remains. otherwise, it is perfectly a piece of possible for electric perpetrators to claim the mass place. on fact, um, i'm not access to the digital much and the sense that person's phones remains found in these mask place. i died of various causes and start and combat the products to, to, to hospital locations. but they eventually on the died and mass space can data that legitimately use them for scope. the so soft thickness side treat mental. she only remains on a temporary basis until the visual and some criminal ration is conduct heavy. though all of these arguments have been made in, in twice before the international promotes the former yugoslavia and needed to be

refused to buy a song a strong and see a evidence months. or if i could ask you more of a personal question. you talked about your experience there at, at now sort of hospital and those whom you know, who, who had been there when it comes to making the choice, to try and take refuge at a site where people are being told that it is protected. and yet the fear is that it will not be protected that it will be attacked. what is that choice like for palestinians and guys who want to just protect themselves and their family members? i think the palestinians and the ones that i know believe they don't have a choice and they never did have a choice before. and then also spirit off that it's the just trying to see could have huge wherever they can away from the idea. and it's genocide to attempt

please remember that drones holbrook had told his all of his whole voting over them . 247 you know, and kind of a psychological warfare. uh that in addition to the expectation that at any moment they can be taught to get to their loved ones can be targeted. they can lose further things that they have owned, whether it be tangible or intangible. i mean, if we're talking about the physical impact and it was about later on, uh, we are gonna be starting to measure the mental impact, the trauma impact. and i think that the time for um, investigation and looking into who is preparatory. this is, i mean, this is, i think, i think we're all done with this right now. we're talking about taking action and a big salutation to the, to the 10s of thousands of students across the world. especially the united states universities who are taking on their campus is saying that, you know, it's time to free policy time. it's time to ensure that this as a has

a permanent ceasefire. and that's a, that each of the people there, you know, the, the politicians and those in power need to listen to this generation. that is now looking at things from, from, from, from an impartial view of seeing the evidence 1st tend being sent to live on television, on different social media platforms. the palestinians on the ground, when they will stay steadfast. they know that they are on the side right side of the facility. they do not want a repeat of 19481967. and they kind of do that without the support of people like here a jersey and applying to show the news. people around the world demonstrating, continuing to boycott, continued to lovely. the politicians, it's important that everyone continues to do that because all of that results in a positive impact on the people on the ground. and by this time, we'll continue to try to hear the news fight to get the 8 that is, that is reaching them in, in that, cuz i was talking to

a friend who is i'm trying to and us. and he was telling me about about his brother that was in one of these mass graves and, and, and he said that my sore despite of seeing all of this, at least i know that i've seen my brother. i've seen my brother, i've seen him in the, in his flush, and i know what's happened to him. hopefully he's in a better place than thought advice. but think about the thousands was still don't know the faith of their loved ones. again, people in the are looking for action. so we are asking those international organizations. we are asking that you and the i c g to do right now what, but a scene ian's needs put an end to this war. open make up evidence. he's fired in short, there's a no fly zone of, of on this fine. and also for the 1st union states and make sure that the breach is 2300000, but a scene is that need look like now. kenneth, i saw you reacting somewhat. minnesota was saying there it looks like you want us to jump in, so please go ahead. yeah. and if i were um, you know,

we're focusing most of the show on the just us the kind of building question cuz it's important. and obviously a crim kind of work a chart if you don't have time. yahoo, for example, that would be a big deterrent for these kinds of wilcox. but, you know, i think much was absolutely right that the real issue here is stopping the joint. you know, how do you stop the bomb bargain? interested williams? have you stopped the starvation less than one person in the world? so really has the capacity to exert sufficient pressure on that to know who is joe by pump. and you know, we saw that either when he sort of vaguely threatens to condition us aid. if that's a lot didn't allow in more food. suddenly, a little bit more so goof allowed. you provide me is not really been willing to exert that link. she hasn't been willing to say, i'm the stop arming in funding your work. crimes enjoys stop period and are here at this point is still discussing with let and yahoo,

how to get tech prov. you know how to get, move 1400000 people to a, you know, a beach front that is, are we, i'm prepared to receive them and where, you know, given history israel, which is the bottom any anyhow. so you know what we really need is buying depression, nothing. yeah. and buying is only going to do that. if he sees a real political cost for his current farming and complicit again as well. so that's why the protests in united states really not are, you know, by and has an election coming up. he does have to care about public opinion. and public opinion is very rapidly sour and by it is complicity in this work. andreas, we don't have a whole lot of time left, but it looked like you were reacting to what kenneth was saying there. so i want to give you a chance to jump in if you want it to a i c p of international commission on this. i person has made it very clear that to satisfy the to assist mass space in the investigation at the request of

authorities that move will of course have to house the batting of the united nations that really have to have from the backing of the, of the policy, so before the understands the term, the big question marks my other policy is going to be willing to submit a forensic investigation on the ground. i both want to offer on the line as was said earlier, but um it is not excluded carrying out such an independent investigation in the short term if conditions and in particular the participation of the under the permission of the parties of pressing perspective. that song has to be kept in mind, but for the understand it. and it's absolutely understandable to, to see a disappointment with international organizations in particular have to keep in mind that international organizations to depend on the willingness of parties to

cooperate 6 months or despite where things stand right now, despite how dire this situation is in gaza, are you hopeful that eventually there will be account ability. do you think that there will be sufficient pressure on israel that in the long term there will be accountability, 100 percent, 100 percent time hopeful together with all of the palestinians and those who love freedom around the world. history repeats itself. look what happened in south africa, sim, something, some of that is going to happen here. and in the us and follow stain is just a matter of time. i think slowly into the national pressure. if you look at the macro politics is changing. if you look at the modes of, of the people, it's changing. if you look at the media, coveting it's changing. so i think it will happen. it's just a matter of time. but the question is, how much more with the palestinians and it was a need to suffer before this time comes in and i hope not, not, not, not, i hope not tomorrow, not any more time. all right,

but we have run out of time. so we're going to have to leave the conversation there . thanks so much to all of our guest today. i'm still showing on andrea's clauser and kenneth ross. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time of visiting our website. i'll just share a dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. i handle is at a j inside story. for me, how much enrollment the entire team here, bye for now the the same as a full front, a progressive change. you're locked in america. the same as long as you remain high, active violence against gender and sexual minority. i've come to windows. irish, 2 young women who have taken place and it were to establish greater freedom and equality. welcome to generation change as level series attempts to understand. i'm

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to so that there's more that unites us then divide the robots as an and don't have the top stories. and i'll just say that the students and faculty members from universities across the united states are continuing to protest and support of palestine that demanding that the university is cut. financial ties with israel says to protest against the water. you guys have the gun at columbia university, new york, more than 550 students have been arrested across the country. police in the us city of atlanta, i have a rested at least a 17 students at emory university. dozens of students set up tents and the counselors on thursday morning is support.