the, the, this business uptake, the rooftop, no bundle dash football. he is the the hello, i'm about this and this is the news our life from don't have, i'm coming up in the next 60 minutes. the reason why have to do it is in a peaceful palestine solidarity incumbent to the university of california, los angeles. following on hours long standing in guys that we speak to palestinians who say they feel hired 5 of demonstrations and us compensation around the world

for the 1st time since october 8. anteaus guys, us to the north and edit is crossing palestinians in the region have been facing starvation and can see the extent of the damage to the surrounding homes and businesses. yeah, they will be looking out over the roots and was well off way up to the ground floor of all of these 4 of these buildings is completely so much we're going to be live from kenya with a desktop from week. so funding is climbing the just on 10 g m, d, that's 3 am in los angeles where police reinforcements have arrived totally clear on anti war uncommon at the university of california. there was a partial withdrawal from police off to a stand off at last in several hours, but a large number of offices has been brought in and demonstrate. just remain

surrounded on tuesday nights, palestine solidarity protestors of the account. what attacked by a group of israel's supporters police have been criticized for the delayed response to that attack. we're going to bring in our correspond rob reynolds is joining us now from u. c. l. a. in los angeles. rob for viewers are just joining us, bring this up to date with what you've been saying. of the well we have seen the large numbers of police uh, moving towards uh, the building that front upon the encampment thats royce hall. so they can use that as a way of transiting uh through the building and then they're merging to confront the, the gaza solidarity the encampment were also seen in just the last couple of minutes. the police officers here taking

a few steps forward and apparently getting ready to perhaps move towards this group of demonstrators or supporters of the demonstrators in the encampment. the number of these supporters seems to have been down quite a bit over the last couple of hours. and as police took a few steps forward, some people decided to leave the area altogether. least have said over a loud speaker that anybody who doesn't leave the area would be subject to arrest. now, the other thing that indicates that things may be coming to a head is that on the opposite side, in campus, police buses are staging. these would be busses, transportation, for any people who are arrested by police as they tried to clear out the

in campus. so those are in are in stage now. uh and uh, so that it just, it seems like some of the elements are all coming together for a um, a move uh move with some of the sites of nature. i can't say that for certain, but the just certain indications that we're seeing. yeah. and again, lisa have been concerned obviously about this group of people here. so by moving forward and sort of putting their, their forces to bear on this group they're, they're dealing with that issue that has been complicating their efforts as well, grew up, i can imagine that the police are very conscious of how this is going to play out on tv, obviously, because the world is not watching what's going on, particularly given what we've seen over the last few days or so. what's your sense of the way in which the police have been handling this? is there any sense of a prepared preparation for using force,

or are they simply using essentially intimidation tactics if you like, by to simple numbers for being there as well. i think that's part of it, but i think that obviously with the police are trained to use force. they are arm and they have a riot protection on they have their large wooden tons that they would use to subdue people who are opposing them. so i certain that they are prepared to use force, but are probably from a, if you might call it public relations or political level of being or, or to you exert the minimum lot of force and not to, as you said, you know, give a bad appearance before the multitude of cameras which are now upon the whole world

watching this event play out here in on the campus of u. c. l, a that's become the fulcrum. and the focus of this entire move uh, protest movement, which has sprung up and spread rapidly across the country. road for now. thank you very much. indeed. that's rob reynolds. joining us from u. c. l. a. as in los angeles, we're going to go to john pallets, he's an independent journalist who's joining us live on the phone from the u. c. l a campus and he's been with us for the last be while as well as a stand off has been going on a john, it's rob mathis in here taken over from nick clock. and i just, and i just wanted to get an update from you of what you were seeing from inside the campus there. oh, um yeah, there's just a lot of move in. um, there were c h p approach from one side of the stairway and what is the one of the few entrances into the cab that the process just quickly blocked it off and like lights are locked up the entrance. so now i think professors believe that the,

that the police police are coming through uh, we sell thing uh, voice haul. i think they're there. they believe that there are doors, so therefore being human change up by those doors. and those stores are also barricaded as well. they've been barricaded the whole day. we're seeing pictures now here we have pictures of the scene here. there are an awful lot of police officers there. what's the attitude and the, the atmosphere inside the camp itself that i've seen some people leave. i'm, i'm wondering whether i should leave myself. uh uh, for the most part it's still very organized. you know, there is part of the leaders on the pod loudspeakers sort of positioning protesters and different places to the cabinets. and it's, it's very orderly though and you know, period i think you're running around uh there sort of every, everything is kind of more slow pace here. and there's people still sort of

add up formation by the barricade. and i think they're just playing the waiting game at this point and, and there's been a lot of speculation about who is making up the, the crowds in these protests from your interpreter. no, i appreciate. obviously you can just see a small snapshot of the crowd that is, that is very use c l a. but who are the people that are making out these tribes that they predominantly students geared towards supporting the palestinian cause or do you get the sense that uh other people in the crowd as well. uh no i, i do not get the sense that there are really other people in the crowd of the people who are not a students that have talked to are still mostly, you know, very supportive of the cause of palestinian liberation or wife. whatever you want to call it, and the most of the people i've talked to and, you know, i friend to go to u. c l a and i a friend to join the boat. that's the uh so i know a lot of these people and i know that they either are current students or former students, mostly, least people i'm, you know, personally familiar with it. and the other people i've spoken to are definitely

supportive of, of the cause. and i've seen other interviews with folks where you know that there was going to be, i watched with an elderly women from the west bank who took a bus here that was, that was done by the public press reporter. so i, i think for the most part i ever, and i've spoken to it is very politically aligned with what, what is the main message of the protesters? what would it take for the protesters to be prepared to pull down? graham and cotton enjoyed the very least if they knew the encampment at at least move away from the area and a lot of the area to be cleared. and um i, i believe up there, you know, i, i, i don't want to speak for everyone, but i believe that the, the, the message i've received so much as i've spoken to is that they're prepared to get a rest of the university that does the stuff to commit to my divest,

but if i'm sorry, so the university isn't gonna commit to at least some of those demand. uh, people here i've spoken to are ready to write it as continue a night and see what happens. i want to talk to you briefly. i know you mentioned this before on here about the importance of social media and this you were describing to, to us within the last hour or so about the how people are using out. are people outside the encampment are using social media and being able to communicate to people inside the comfortable work the police are doing and what and, and so, and talk to talk as to why that's happening. um yeah, i mean there's people posting on social media. there's also people who are on the outside of the cabinet in the old or the lawn or on the east end of the encampment . and they're there. they're also able to like yell through, left, through the barricade that some people are, are hovering over the barricade. the gigabytes the barricade, but just on the other side of the encampment so that people are able to communicate

. there's people sort of on the sidelines that little looks in cranny, if there are really party in campus or aren't really blocked off. and they're able to have like sort of a perspective on the police action and idle to, to get that. but i, i, you know, i'm sure everyone's, and their group chat level understanding different ways to each other that you know, so maybe a helicopter shot or so, you know, that's another perspective of people being counted because there's not a lot of ways to see through the barricade a. jonathan, no, thank you very much. indeed, jonathan i was talking to is from inside that you see highlighted there. well, stevenson's is a professor of politics and international studies, specializing in the middle eastern politics at university of san francisco. he says, reason please, correct. hands on protests are unprecedented. of these kinds of peaceful and countenance are not new of back in the 1980s. there were a large,

similar pro test on campuses calling for divestment of university holdings and corporations doing business and apartheid south africa. i was part of that movement myself. and while students were arrested, if we, for example, sat in an administration building or tried to block traffic, usually the encampments were allowed to stay as long as they didn't interfere with the young normal business of the, of the university. and so that what we're seeing or do c l a right now, and what we're seeing and other campuses is intolerance. even for a peaceful protest that doesn't interfere with anything. but what would clearly they are taking a much harder line against people. ready of protesting on behalf of palestine other than they have on people who protested on various other causes and various other concerns and various other oppressed peoples historically. there's fairly clear double standard uh, uh, going on here and, and, and, and a really good,

unprecedented level at least in, in recent decades of suppression of the free speech on university campuses of costing. but obviously, besides sort of international affairs and costs. are universities been joining us here in doha for the last few hours and the reach? an interesting point in this isn't that because there is a dynamic where the peaceful protests will carry a message through in support of the demonstrators and looking for a violent protest would send a different message. but it would get as much if not more attention. it's a tricky situation moment. imagine when you're trying to balance the amount of attention you want to get to your call is, but at the same time you're running the risk of alienating a lot of people that might be supporting you. it is, it is the situation, as you said, i mean we have one and rule that is protesting in every peaceful way. and they have what they call fair demands and their insight to, to come up with, with these demands. and this created the challenge for everyone in america. the

administration's, all of the, i mean might in administration, but also the universe demonstrations because is a fine line here is how to differentiate between the free speech which is qualified and the 1st amendment into constitutions. and hate speech. and this is, you know, something very tricky because many people accuse to protest chose of support and come us when, when they don't actually they, um, they are against the war on the support different athenians rights of determination . which is a totally different issue from saying they're supporting homeless. so then another group came using some van and tactics in order to do the dylan eyes the peaceful uh, protested. so we have a delicate situation, but at the end of the day, i think, you know, this is not the 1st time we have this, and i've seen this and that is 6 years. and 198 is where the demonstrations university people live, the way for an a c change,

an american way of looking at things. a property. we should not look at the immediate impact of different says. but we have to look at the medium term on long term, and i think this is kind of a people would, for a social and political change in america. we're going to see this and you're so come one of the key elements of the, of, of what we're seeing now, of course, is the, for some people who oppose these protests, a concession between anti zionism and anti semitism which are clearly of course, 2, entirely different things, but sometimes that distinction is not made clear. and as a result, people can use that, that blurring, if you like to, for their own purposes. how important is it that people are absolutely clear what it is that they are supporting on either side of these barriers here. i agree with you. we know this is deliberately made uh what this rate is trying to do as well as the you know, the, the, the flows really forces in america where they're doing so and then your, they're trying to create a criticism of those redwoods, antisemitism,

which is totally wrong. and even morally corrupted to come up with this argument because is really the state, it's, comes up with policies it's occupies, you know, the nation. and the behavior that added to the state should be for the size. and honestly, it's more concise within and as well that in america and, but those people like full is really more of them uh, forces they what they want to ask, just so and the free speech or any criticism against these raiders. by coming up with the l, using the accusation of enticing because in a, towards perfectly for them to have well, in europe, in every time european statements came with the statement that criticizes, well they remind them to hunt down across and the mind to them of the anti semitism, so if i can put it to be used in order to to fill the the few solution and break up . but i think with the process now and i was professor, i knew university number, can you visit this? and i know what campus work is,

i know how was hard for people to come up with the see. i think again this is really promises, but now oh, i think things have changed. and as i say with us for the moment, i'm gonna go back to our correspondent rob reynolds. well, i understand if you're joining us, that there has been some activity where you are just sofa. see what's been happening there. yeah, absolutely. you can see i'm gonna step out of the way here. so their camera show you in this corner of the year that building is voice, whole lease. we're surging out of royce, whole front doors and into the and cabinets. so they seemed you have reached that part of the camp, but we also saw some of the plywood and pallets the protest had used water not long in the air. so it does now that the or if you can't even force

rubber just looking at some of the pictures here as you. so go through and then go to see because there's a certain distance i understand that i'm the want to see if we can swap up because i think we have pictures. yeah, there we go. these are pictures, some gorgeous news agency, which are clear, i'm sure, give us a better idea of what you're talking about there at has the you, you did say that there was going to be when we were talking about 10 minutes ago. so you did say that, but was it kind of change and to change the change in the atmosphere? you feel like something was going to happen? presumably this is the kind of thing you were talking about, that there was a preparation for this kind of identity. putting all the pieces into place exactly the police reinforcements coming in, the police in this area sort of intimidating the crowd here and then the bosses to transport arrested protesters to these stations processing

also being is it? sions: but again, what i've seen here are some of the boards worn down and seeing a lease with a high intensity for choosing flashlights. this really sorry to interrupt. can you forgive me for interrupting? can you see how these students are reacting to this? is there any response from the, the people inside behind those barricades? it's difficult to see behind the barricade. so i can tell you that the people who are here, who's been outside of the encampment, but in support of the camp and are chanting hands off for a students who are you? there goes a flash the other. okay. so they're trying to, yeah,

those were right in the front right here. what if you did try to get the attention to death here. there's licking arms as you get to see, and they're trying to create a human was to read the police from moving the lease really laying it on with the flash bang explosive devices or not like rene aids or not. so they would kill people or blow up your limbs, but intended to frighten and we're just going to move back a little bit right now. uh, watch up behind you there. yeah, well the way that she was moving back,

we can see over your shoulders, we can see the 2 started rabo just saying we can see that we can just see the product that i showed you. this was there from the, from the yeah, you can see the flash bags smoke from those and the lights so the police vehicle is the the protesters still holding that line. some people obviously startled by the flash bags, grenades and, and, and leaving the area. but i, i those are probably gonna leave this very moment. we're going to go to john pallets, he's an independent journalist, eveningside b, c. i like joining us on the phone conference there. i don't. what are you seeing on the other side of the barricade as these like flash fireworks popping off

one after another. uh so i went to the other side of the barricade. the other line . i see there still fire. use the flash thing, but really sound like a gas stove gas a little bit heavy for people are all going over to the other side. the people are still willing to whole 5 organize with all that line. looks like i see a lot of people. okay. that was close. i feel that the best possible. so going over to defend that barricade over there. yeah, don't. we can hear the flash bags as you're talking to as uh, if you need to get into places. okay, at any point you just go ahead and do that, but for the just tell me what the move to the moment they, they those behind the barricades, you said they were linking arms determined to hold the line. but is there any indication of anger or frustration, or, and violence,

or it is simply determined to hold that line the, there's simply different, different factors of people, sort of organizing protesters to different parts of the camera to get more people on one side or get more people on the other, so there's still sort of uh, trying to organize. um, i not on, i'm not directly in front of the flash bank, so i don't know exactly what's going on. that's why there are people who are right on the front of a line. uh, but as far as i can see, the product leaders like a clerk, you can call them are still sort of just trying to organize the hands of get people to different parts of the cabinets and, but i don't see, i don't see it. but they don't panic. yeah. your job is, is going to say you were talking about people being or being organized that it sounds from what you're saying that this is something that the students and the people behind the barriers have been anticipating and that they have a plan in place. uh yeah, i mean, i think they've been building towards this all day in a sense of they've been,

you know, reinforcing those barricades. they've been bringing different materials into the camp. and uh, you know, all the doors are blocked off. so i think it's definitely something that, that the pay that it and you know, earlier in the day of there is that when one of the 1st little bit 1st called, you know, there are park, there were protests leaders going around the cam and sort of thing and people pay just so you understand, if you're staying here, you are risky, getting arrested. if not, we will help you get out of here that we will. we will audio right now the way you feel like. so they were, they were probably doing that from around at around 8 pm tonight they were starting to do that. now we're just looking at some things as not as you're talking to us from the police side of the barrier. and images of some of the police have been taking, attempting to at least take done the batteries. but as far as i can tell, i can't see a significant movement of police to the time of their home page, the line as strong as the line on the other side of the barrier. where the

protesters, as you were mentioning, are linking on. i say it's pretty uh you know, combined with the barricade, it's pretty deep. there are people sort of in that hallway voice, the older people in the corner of that, you know, in that, in that part of it. and there's people sort of in, in the middle of the back reinforcing it. so i would say it's still pretty deep. i think that i would, i think it's safe to say that most of the, a camera has gone over to that side. do you have any indication of where the police are at other parts of being cabman studies for disaster and there's one particular section that i can't or all day. so rounding the in charge account and they, but so my understanding they, they were at one part of their way earlier and that the others are now they're trying to. i think that i don't really have a great idea from inside. i can't, i don't have a lot of vantage points. so i'm sort of relying on social media. but it seems like

it seems like the majority of them are now focused on, on that, on that barricade on that side. i don't 1000 independent journalists joining us in the phone from u. c. l. a. john, thanks very much. indeed. i'm going to go back to rob reynolds, who's on the, i've side of the encampment. he's been bringing years up to date from the if you like, the police action on his side. rob, tell us what is going on. right now. the police are pushing protesters back or they're quite close. you can probably is a step inside the police in their clear plexiglass helmets advisors. they've been moving this group of people steadily backwards and getting reinforcements from other other contingents of police interior. they will stop and then they will move forward and push doesn't seem that they've arrested

anyone yet, but they're getting quite close to where we are right now. so we'll see if they, if they make another move forward, the number of protesters who are, are skilled they're linking are trying to hold. the line has decreased greatly as the police have moved forward. ringback we're just not here today to seem right to the other side as you're talking to us. and we can see we just have a few moments ago. we saw a police officer trying some sort of weaponry and naming it at the barricades. i don't know what kind of weaponry that would be, but it does look as though they things are beginning to get more times because it looks as though somebody has perhaps been firing. maybe a fire extinguisher or something towards the there's a lease from the and through the barriers and the police have seemed to have to

stop by the action. yeah. ringback that they're, that they're doing at the moment. do you get any sense from where you are and they're all coming to back up the officers, the lines of officers that are already there. i think that there are plenty of police where i am right now to be honest, and they just knocked over all bunch of protest service. so we're slowly stepping backwards as well. and i think the police are moving through now. they're definitely clearing the houses area. ringback last bags will going on all over the place. moving back to the police are saying, move, move, move the road. the protesters are pushing against the police.

police have their batons out, smoking them in the arms, and in the sides will be mentioned before. you haven't seen anybody leading, as i said, is there any indication of a start or less people the no, not arresting people yet, just pushing them back, trying to disperse them, moving in, step by step back with a constant concussion of those flash bags of the the weaponry that you mentioned, rob, that would be the the, the devices that are used to launch these flash bags. also to launch a chemical inheritance here. gas, other types of gas. it's not always actually tear gas,

but they look sort of like guns, but they're not actually rifles that night. so i don't think that the police are using live fire at all. i do here. they anything like that? yeah, i'm just trying to push these people back and remember these people that we're seeing here, this is not the in can browse sizes get, but these are people who are supporting the student testers. thoughts a solid arity and cap. yeah, we're just seeing pictures of the moment already come from the people who seem taken to one side of the from outside income. and they've been secured by zip ties and they're currently kneeling on the ground. i don't know whether they're being processed by arresting offices, but they're being held at the moment. tell us again, you said that it was beginning to get more tens where you are. tell us what's happening. well the police are

succeeding in pushing the white pressure and pushing these protesters back steadily from the line that they've formed enough here. weights are moving forward. well, this things we've talked to somebody about it, for example, protest, peaceful protests. yeah, sorry to interrupt drugs. there's a delay in the line, and this brings us back to what we were talking about before where the police are. one would imagine very aware of how many cameras are trained and then let them know they are going to their behavior and the situation is likely to be judged. absolutely they. i mean, they're seeing our camera and of course everyone in the crowd.

camer it is pockets for her pocket and they're all recording as well. now this lease line has passed through our position is felt it was best to not front of them were behind them now and you can see they are pushing processors steadily backwards. i think they will be trying to get them off campus all together if that's possible. yeah, we're just seeing scenario questions now. applying a lot of physical pressure. yeah, we're just seeing some, a aerial pictures. now rob this quite a lot of smoke that is coming around from, from the engines to the is that in cap, and whether it's come from the, the residue or the fire extinguisher extinguishes. if that's what it was, it might be the residue of the flash binds as well. do give us a sense if you can all say that the move to the atmosphere amongst the people who

have come there to support the protest as how worried and concerned are they about this? they seem to be generally pretty angry. the people are shouting, you know, that they are peacefully protesting and the, uh, the rough stuff by the police. and they are demanding with their hands off. there are students as what do their chance was. so this group of people are definitely um, being a very resistant to the police pressure of their mood is pretty frenzy guy would say right now, this is the, this is a high intensity, high emotion moment. and then you can just see how it's going there. and you can see these police officers, it's just

a lot of them and they're all in their protective gear. is a young woman in the front, their voice definitely backwards. people are filming with their smartphones. and it really is quite a scene. it's quite an amazing c to tell us about the officers in the back of this line with their uh, zip ties. uh plastic hancock's at the ready, rob tell us about the kind of people that were making up the crowds who were outside being compet. those who were there to support those inside the account a mixture of students and people from outside even ran into a couple of people that i met on other stories. and some people wearing

a clothing with sort of an are just the symbols on them. others who were wearing a lot of people wearing 50 is but these are people who are very often um i guess often involved in per year to be very used to this type of a consultation with police. and one of the questions, of course, over the last few days, a is who else has been joining the full tests on both sides of the barriers. what's your interpretation of the people who have been there? is there any indication that those who are supporting the protests are also the crowds. there are also including people who are there possibly just to have a fight with the police because of course we have seen that elsewhere around the world. yes,

that's certainly possible. i would say just getting some caution from the police there to stay out of their way. certainly that's, that's possible. but i think that the more striking a group of people who came not for this community, not from this campus, not from the student body or any of the faculty, were the pro israel rioters. frankly, who appeared here on uh uh, more than 24 hours ago. to violently attacked the student in camp, but those people were definitely from somewhere outside of this community and they were bent on committing violence. now i can see a great deal over there as well. let's just look over here. if we can kid. this is,

again, this is closer to the uh, this is the actual encampment, a corner of the encampment itself. and i can see lots of smoke rising there. you can probably see it yourself. so this, this, the police appear to be steadily making their way through the encampment. i no longer see the large palestinian flags being waved, that i saw all evening, some of the boards and that sort of palisade, evan pulled down and we're going to try to get a little bit of a better vantage point, rob to side of try to live inside the, the 10, the, the, the camp itself, right? we have a shot here which is top right the to low to this low. so it up to uh, to the gate. they're closer to where you are. we have seen officers there who have

been firing those weapons. you were talking about the ones we were discussing earlier that seem to be firing those weapons into the crowd as you were talking about. unlikely to be obviously live fire, it's very unlikely to be alive. fi is very unlikely to be anything a deadly force of certainly in order to push the crowd back, we're seeing more smoke being fired. i think towards the police offices. there again, it may be fire extinguishers that are being a 5. is a huge clue that that's uh, come over now, but this is, this is really the moment that it is building up to for the last several lives. as you've been telling us that there's, you know, that we've been leading to this. there's moment of tension which something essentially had to give out to us, stand off for such a long time. exactly. uh, this is, this is the climax moment when uh the, the police force a use of force and the termination by the university administration and other

officials to solve this. what they see is a problem. you know, this is what, what is happening now. those projectiles, they may be. they're probably non lethal projectiles sometimes called rubber bullets. that is a term that lies how painful goes projectiles could be. if one of them gets you, they're really about this big and they're, they're hard. like a hockey puck. so that would be no fun to get hit with the and the police are, are allowed to use those for those would be used in preference to any live fire . i think life fire would be use only. yeah. very stream case of least thought they were, their lives were being threatened to be the case here, rob,

we're going to leave it there for them. and we can some kind of show salsa or enter on with getting back to main screen there, where we can see some more people who are being at least taken away. their hands are being bound by zip ties. we don't yet know is the same whether or not they're being arrested in process. they may just be removed from the crowd. we're going to try and find out more about that. but i'm joining us from washington, dc by tom is guess he's an associate professor director of the center and us politics that you see out in london. so thank you very much indeed for being with us. this kind of protests that we've seen in the us on occasions before how effective is it when it comes to trying to change the minds of politicians? well, thanks so much for having me. i think that it's a great question. so i think for the last several weeks there was a certain contingent of democrats, some particulars that way, just concerned that this could actually spill over in november's election. but i do think that as you've seen some of these content stations

a little bit more live in mind of what happened at columbia, as well as now here at, and you see a way, there's also thought that this could happen backslash the fact that a lot of americans are viewing these images and it actually makes them more inclined to have a negative impression of the protestors and by extension the cause that they are ultimately advocating for i think strictly on the republican side, donald trump is trying to use this as evidence of k or somebody, the current administration and, you know, just trying to exploit that sort of sort of a long order problem. and in terms of what we've seen before, we've protests like this, how effective visits, if eighty's, the police and the security voice is sort of seem to be acting aggressively or forcefully. and the protesters are essentially peaceful and do not respond. how much does that resonate with the voting public, particularly, and public opinion in the us?

pointing to an extent it certainly does resonate with democrats and progressives in particular. and i do think that you can try some parallels. for example, black lives matter protests that were underway in the summer of 2020 any time there's sort of scenes where police seem to be acting inappropriately or using undo force. i think a lot of americans also can see those images and maybe that does make them more sympathetic to these. protestors certainly agrees with that class respect against the police. ultimately, i'm not sure if this, these protest are really going to have a huge impact on, on the ballot box, but to the on the margins. this is explore it. right. and i bought, funded by default, pointed protests like this suddenly changed the dynamics from being and supported for a particular cause to being targeted against what the protest as would see as police

aggression. like, i mean, i think that that's very much a case by case basis. you know, i think one of the problems is that university sort of let the situation get out of hand. and if they had established rules and sort of in for some of these kinds of regulations at the outset, maybe wouldn't never have gotten to this point. i think, you know, something a columbia that started at a relatively low level, then escalating, you know, really, really, i think, you know, in some cases we are seeing examples of please probably using a new force. maybe some of this can be dealt with through less assertive or aggressive needs, possibly just through campus security, particularly whenever you just see a very peaceful protest and somebody is intervening. i do think that that becomes problematic. each of these university sort of has their own list of rules and guidelines about what constitutes the appropriate expressions of free speech.

whether that, you know, includes establishing new camp mentors, sort of semi permanent structures that are precluding individuals or, or being disruptive from the education. much impressed in terms of the effectiveness in with regard to public discourse about this, this particular subject is really palestine. situation is this an effective way of raising public consciousness about this with getting people to talk about? well, i think you're absolutely right that it raises public consciousness and needs to be extensive. this is on the front page of the times and the washington post and other media outlets. it's certainly a window of controversy and americans are well, she closely again, i think that a lot of this sort of depends on a case by case basis. but, you know, at columbia, where you have students actually violently breaking into an entering in academic building. if you have places where students are engaged and civil disobedience,

but also resisting arrest. i, i do think that that starts to have a backlash as an americans on the whole, particularly moderate sort of those on the right. really have less sympathy for, for their cause. alternately, certainly the list galvanized a certain section. so we're at the start of may the elections are going to be in november? do you think that any of this is done to with, of course, if the conflicts in gaza is continuing? do you think any of these protests are going to resonate with voters when we get to in november? well, i do think that they're important, but if you actually look at the data, very few americans list for war and dasa as the nation's most important problem. recent data from hardware and show that only about 2 percent of young people list one does have their most important concern. if you look at data from jalap for americans as a whole,

also only 2 percent listed as their number one issue. so do you think that it is dwarfed by other concerns including cost of living and inflation, including immigration, including health care is just not an issue that rags very high and salience for main mail and so on. margins. it doesn't matter, but i do soon as possible. to overstate the extent to which of these prototypes and some of the broader protest against americans that support for israel will actually make a big difference in no cost on his behalf, essentially professing director of the center of us politics. it you see all or nothing sir, we appreciate it. thank you very much and i'm going to go back to han, somebody's if, if i sort of international affairs kasha university has been with. so for the last few hours or so, i tell him, is this the making the point that wireless, these protests may well be attracting the attention within the us and certainly around the well, we know the silver, the guys that have been holding up signs supporting the protesters in support of

them. at the same time, the residents with a us public is fairly low. he said about 2 percent of people just told by got upset that day because it was real conflict was, was, it was important to them. that's how small a dentist, if you're like, it's making in the american political discourse. what's, how effective the, therefore is there's within the united states, given the fact that it's the us that really holds the key to whether or not there's conflict in guides or continues no one over the last 2 or 4 digits. know that the phone policy, which is really not to the why define the political behavior of what seemed to have a lot of americans. but in this case, i think it's going to make some difference in swing states because even 2 percent can be mixed or rated for a and no money. in some states, like for michigan, we've seen like many democrats actually a fortune and committed so this would definitely have some,

some impact on that attends. and that's i, by them is, is very worried about that. and, and that's why even tom is trying to capitalize in back. i mean, last night it wasn't to be saying that it's a beautiful because he could you please getting into the universities and he wanted to uh, to use it in order to portray by them as if he's as a week president. so a pretty famous and in indiana, and it's going to pay out and then i can add up to the question, we'll just define the outcome up sort of, you know, we kind of course ignore the fact that this has become a worldwide phenomenon. we've seen processing power as we've seen process the strategy and we've seen process in london. those are just a few of the countries i get the historically as well. but it's, these are just a few of the countries where this is is resonating. this may have a limited effect, so we say in terms of the, the, the, the politics overall in the united states. nevertheless, the does seem to be

a resonating impact around the rest of the world. if people watching what's going on, i'm talking about is real guys, easiest place to, to have place the israel palestine story at the center of so many discourses. now, there are 3 for the 1st one there that is really now active and has failed to convince the, the interaction community over there just goes a secondly, the, the global kind of time alliance with which is actually made of civil society universe if there's protest. so is gaining momentum in the world and certainly everyone say that, you know, they should be in a resolution over the counter. so talking about peace without making fees is no longer valid. and, and everyone in the ward is, is convinced with this. so there will be a huge pressure on innovative and in months to come in order to probably give something you distract. i didn't know how it is gonna identify outside and the she can give you one hosted to display the dimensions and the acceptable. if you're

into deep and, and i'm like, so i think this is probably one of the benefits where they've kind of seen isn't, you know, is that bill, it might not really affect the american politics much, but also add the civil society across the board. individual has shifted to the scene and several piece, and this is not what i need from you. i want to see you. and i want to ask you about that because we've seen over the last couple of days that there is a sense that the main, obviously for to look at the solutions of the situation and gather is benjamin netanyahu thing. so given the fact that there is a spot proposal on the table, which homeless has been encouraged to, to accept finding it almost immediately, benjamin netanyahu with ours said that no, we're going to go into the off site and it looks like to an outside or gives the impression that it doesn't matter what anybody organizes with that. so as far agrees with the seems 5, the violence is going to is going to happen in that off or talk to us about what

you are not as this is about the position of benjamin rescue. yahoo. and all of this given the level of international impression that we're seeing there, 2 points here. the 1st one is missing the 1st interview. he is your interested in for the to the survival man. who knows that the, the moment the dual comes to an end, he would be held accountable internally for even different purposes. but chief among them, the failure to handle the taurus. uh, the 2nd floor which is that, i don't think that it is only the problem of nothing. you know, it's these really part of the system. you know, these rates, the site is shifted over the last to the case in terms of the right. so whatever election comes, you know, we're going to see right when people come again with this item is expansion, expansion isn't. and the name of the facility that i serve you from anything load for the problem is, is the occupation. and i can see that before dynamics with it is a society which produce the coalition for peace and product and for peace in, in

a movie dykus of them. and this, there is a, an international pressure that we shift the price because of this right is, and let's leave it there for a moment because i want to go back to rob reynolds, who's outside this in commons, who's been watching the police binds move forward towards the in cabin rob. what's the latest? well, can you tell us about what's been happening over the last several minutes or so? it looks like the this is really the in game here. rob researches manfully the wouldn't barriers, made a piece of plywood and wooden pallets rolling the debris over the side there and i know it's due to the distance but probably see her line of police are relentless. some function of the last page. i still see some i still i see one tell us good in flag waving.

see like chaotic may have the police a do appear to have the situation under control. you could say, if you could put it that way, it's more like they have reached the the encampment. they begun arresting. people will see a stair city scream, a people be arrested and placed in the zip ty, again tops and take it away. so looks like you know, slowly but steadily, the police are emptying the camp, resting its inhabitants, and this protest will soon be over, but then will probably move into a new phase as for just organizing uses, they will keep up there for the desk,

and there divestment jobs normally just seeing some pictures of the moment as you tell them to. so the what appears to be the frontline of protesters who as you were describing to us out there have linked arms in order to maintain that 5 yards. and i can't see how deep that so those lines go, maybe maybe there's about swedish or so. there's certainly seems to be a determination. there looks as though somebody is firing more fire extinguishers possibly in the direction of the the police officers, the police trying to tear down some of the barriers in aiming. those weapons that we've been talking about normally for weapons, we assume pretty, pretty convinced they're going to be alone normally fall into the then because they're of the streets of people that devices fire extinguishers. by the way, that's, that's done. those fire extinguishers, by the way. that's not, that's not a lethal weapon either. that's mostly i

understand all the people that are being taken out and put into zip ties. is there any, what is there any indication of, of how they're feeling is the resolute element to it that they knew that this was coming orders or anger frustration. talk to us about that, rob it's, it's hard to tell rob from the body language because i see people being led away. they're kind of stooped over. it's like they've, they've realized this some to the end that the, they may have known all along was going to call them if they would maintain their, their goals and their their pressure to die. this lisa succeeded in pushing away many of the protesters were in this

area now, and we saw quite a few of them being arrested as well. here goes a big line of police. there will be heading to the opposite side of this yard here. so it just amazing seeing a historic something is going to be remembered on this campus for a very, very long time. 12, i know that you have covered many protests in the past on a variety of different topics and subjects. how does this one compared to what you have seen in the past? well, i think the determination of these students to stand their ground

is, is pretty remarkable. and their level of organization, their discipline is all been very impressive. you know, while the camp was functioning before to night, the students that set up a whole community 3 meals per day sanitary of facilities of medic tents. and they had a constant stream of supplies coming in from their supporters. they were, they had the tasks that each one was assigned to do. so it really became a little society there rather than just a crowd of people. for example, during the black lives matter, protests were just large. crowds of people would gather to voice their displeasure and voice or outrage. this was very tightly organized and the fact that they are

also committed to a pause, which is not directly related to demos. this thing to your guess earlier saying, well, most young people are more concerned about inflation and the costs of ran the housing in this, in that situation. these students, they have all of that as well on their minds. they have to live in america too, but they chose to take a stand for a group of people half way around the world, being decimated in a seemingly endless war. and they sought to do whatever they could on their level to make a difference. so that, that i think is, is, is, is we're looking at pictures, we're obviously talking to those of the police facing off against the remains of

the light enough for testers. again, links to arms, they wearing hard hats and mosques against whatever the police may have been firing out them or intending to fire at them. as you were saying, there seems to be like a determination that the line is not going to be moved. but at the same time, that doesn't appear to be, at least from the pictures that i'm seeing here, that doesn't appear to be any sense of, of direction or violence amongst the demonstrations. there does, however, seem to be that determination that they're going to hold that line for as long as they can it's kind of just a steady resistance and a fresh pressing back, pushing back against the forces that are trying to dismantle and their protest is that a lashing up just a as a determination to stand their ground as much as they possibly can. and ports when

faced with you know, heavily equipped in large numbers of, of police who are professionally trained and so forth. they, they're not going to win the battle, but they are, as you say, not lashing out or trying to i what do we don't injure the police? they're just trying to hold, hold their ground a while in the chance though, we want peace, we want justice. still a flag flying flag flying older than not of protesters are gathered in the center of the camp, surrounded by police now police applying pressure on them. smoke everywhere and the time the boom of the gosh and your names.