on the go and meet tonight, i'll just there is only mobile app is that the, this is where we dissect allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorite top to just set for it and tapped on a new app from out is 0 new at using is it the on the hello, on the bulk of this discount and the costs are now just here a week. the look to the world of business and economics this week, cooling university funding into question protest as mainly in the us to non that schools divest them israel. so that's one, gaza. so how do they make them money?

who should rebuild ukraine? us moves to make russia pay for its invasion, must go, threatens to retaliation. billions of its state assets have confiscated. sell take talk, face upon the us is cracking down on the apps. chinese own a bind done. so how will it and millions of american businesses be affected the now from columbia university in new york to the university of southern california and los angeles protests against israel as war on gaza spread across major american colleges. protest system ons, very in scope from school to school, but there is one common message disclose and divest students, one that universities to be more transparent about where the schools money is going . and all these institutions abandon a range of investments and companies. they say i could place it in genocide, so does divestment work. we'll discuss that with, i guess shortly. but 1st,

who focusing sharif reports for children. that's becoming a major utilities in the united states. students from campuses in the east coast to the west have united their voice against east was full on call. so that's given nearly 35000 palestinians since october, columbia, you, unless the new york process began more than 2 weeks ago. they are closed for the investment from mister. beside the school has an endowment fund of needing to $2000000000.00. protest is one of the institution to separate ties with companies linked to this red folder. profiting from its will on casa, the include to johns, like google and microsoft defense companies like lockheed martin, an investment from black rule, among others. this is not a matter of simply if i only think universities. this is a movement,

an anti war movement. the university has so far, refused to divest from each well put full foot to make investments in health and education. in casa students, reacted by taking over the tempest building. the police were called in to pay a demonstration suspect to separate colleges in the us with some nicole's to disclose inside this at hubbard the which is university in the us been endowment fund of more than 50000000000 dollars for testing students wanted to re investors sources in palestinian academy initiatives, communities, and culture, and at university of southern california, they've called for the school to ended study abroad programs. and this comes with the students and several teachers have been arrested across the country. the

protest to see the be not stop the is the real state filings go to show that our universities are scared. and that is why the over reacting with violence because they know the students have the power they know their students across the country are united fortunate investments from campuses in the us for pets have spread to separate colleges for some months. now, globally, most demonstrations have been calling for a ceasefire from the streets. the jones encompasses the wood over with close to divest from each run and the consumption. i'll just see the company. so how do you ever cease make their money? well, they rely on the tax exempt donations, the run into billions of dollars to fun, things like scholarships, research and even stuff salaries. the national association of college and

university business offices. so it's at least 700 institutions, hold nearly 840000000000 and endowment assets, colleges and universities invest this money across financial markets and stokes hedge funds, businesses and real estate, protesting students, one that universities to withdraw or divest their involvements from his rated companies. and businesses to profit from israel on gaza. they want the money to be reallocated to move ethical investment ventures, which in turn compressor, a company or government to change policies. and there's a history of student activist targeting endowments during demonstrations. in the 1980s they successfully persuaded universities to divest from a pos site south africa. and more recently, universities have divested from fossil fuels and private prisons. well, joining us from new york is melanie comment. she's a professor and director of the weather head sense of international affairs at harvard university. if i, if i will welcome to thanks for joining us. when it comes to these investments,

the buying of stocks and shares homeless due diligence to universities across the united states. do before they spend the costs before they invest the money? well, they usually, boards of universities, corporations or universities are in charge of establishing the general investment strategy. so they can structure their investment manager or what to invest in, in broad terms or what to avoid. but most of the time, university boards outsource the management of university endowments, university funds to professional investment managers. so they're not in the weeds of exactly what is going on as, as i said, they can adopt the broad principles of what they do and do not want to invest in. but they're not necessarily deeply involved in what choices are made for specific assets to be invested in and not respect practically how easy is it then for

universities to divest from israel? i mean, it's certainly possible. uh, but it's not easy in, in the sense of turning around immediately. let's 1st of all, this is taking for, under the assumption that this is a choice that universities with making that choice itself i think, is going to be a complicated one because of the polarizing nature of this issue in the united states. but let's say that a, just that decision was adopted. it is operationally complex because it's difficult to get the micro level data to know what exactly is in the investments market was, but it's not impossible. it just would take some work and it would not be a fast turnaround decision that we've seen the success of divestment in the past, particularly when it comes to a positive south africa. what is different this time around using? yeah, so this is a much more polarizing issue at present. now let me emphasize that south africa was

not a dozen deal from the beginning. this is a campaign that took years and years and then making to come to fruition. so these kinds of divestment campaigns can work, but they often don't work overnight. now the question of israel palestine is particularly polarizing in the united states. and so i think this is a very tall order. it's more complicated as well because you have a lot of congressional intervention here, as we know from what's going on regarding israel and the campus drama is that are playing out right now. there's also donor interest in israel as well. donors that are major contributors to american institutions. and so, so this makes it all of a more complex this issue. it's more polarizing then let's say climate change or tobacco has been these kinds of public health issues that have a guided investment and dive estimate decisions on university campuses. what about

the potential financial and impact on places of learning universities across the us? because students have potentially being expelled or simply put off, wanted to study of these kind of institutions because of the handling of all of this. so well it is, this is a really challenging issue right now in the united states. and what's, what's interesting, if you look across the landscape of universities where these protests are playing out, university administrations have adopted radically different approaches ranging from i read arrests and expulsions and so forth. as you mentioned, there are a couple of universities that have adopted a more conciliatory approach and have agreed to actually speak with protesters like, for example, brown university or north western university. so there's a divergence of approaches here, but there is definitely across the board, concerns about ty, batsmen and universities are very worried about rocks in their endowment values and

on the returns from endowments. and so this is a major concern that divestment will affect the value of endowment payouts. of course, a behind all of this is a desire to direct israel to shape its form policies that have an influence on the next decisions that he makes in regards to the war and gaza. how much do you think will divestment actually impact is or so my sense is that financially it will have a minimal effect. but this is not necessarily about the financial ramifications of divestment. it's more about the moral ramifications. and so divestment is as much an ethical moral campaign as it is a financial campaign. and i think that's where the impact promises to be more profound because causes that are at the center of divestment campaigns are causes that become debates about moral and ethical issues. and so i think this

is the real issue is what's the impact of the investment campaigns on public opinion around the american relationship with israel, and particularly support for l. israel's military activities. all right, melanie, come a great to have you on counting the cost. great, thank you so much. now the one goes that has led to renewed calls to boycott is right. the products for you is published and use of those international sanctions to be imposed in order to pressure israel to end this occupation. but for many and they don't combine, westbank is what, how strangle hold on the economy is a major obstacle for the boy called movement. abraham has moved from bethlehem. around the world, people are echoing palestinian calls to boy eclipse and sanction israel activists. why didn't the focus after the world garza, i don't know, targeting multinational companies,

the tooth support to as well. the, the sales of mcdonalds and starbucks among others have declined and there's talks took a hit, but in the occupied territory is real dominates the economy. this leaves the palestinians with little to no free choice when it comes to spending their money and will call me boy clots. he's one way of resisting these really occupation. yes . become fully boycotts because they control. i want to few and electricity, but i can inflict 55 percent losses instead of 100 percent. then i well, it's hard to measure the losses from the boy. what's campaign? what the boosted. tell us to the businesses like this to the factory. soon, these cams will make their way to jordan, where bar code of israel has been growing dramatically. this id is well controlled, import and export, and they often impose heavy fines in texas and overall materials. we know it's

because they don't want palestinians to have factories under independent the economy. the city is do not control the board. there's. so all exports and inputs are subjected to, as well as the restrictions bands and closures. these restrictions have for the 1st part of the city and mushroom company to shut down. it was open to challenge of these weighty domination of the market. a solid jazz each is a founder of the company and an activist. and the boy thought campaigns. what support that is, what it tries to do is break the palestinians dominate. um they'll palestinians and that includes keeping them at the disadvantage uh economically. so keep the economy under control to force their own economy on you product so on. but these radio for these have little control over at home made products like these. this is a local initiative to support small skid projects making had made so craft and food

for many boards. the thing is where the product also gives people the opportunity to support small project. any money that does not go to israel, they say, well instead health support a palestinian comedy, survived the difficult economy conditions the that the he and just the to the occupied westbank palestine the the, according to the well bank $411000000000.00 is needed to rebuild ukraine, the us senate allies one must go to pay for its invasion. congress has passed a bill that could allow key if to use some of russia's frozen assets west, the nation's 1st $300000000000.00 in russian fund holdings at the start of the conflict. and most of that money is held in europe and financial institutions. the kremlin has now threatened to retaliate if its assets are confiscated. russia's real estate news agency says the west steps to lose assets with $288000000000.00 if

it's raising funds to seize. according to ria, the top investors in the russian economy includes the cypress remove in $98000000000.00. the netherlands with 50000000000, the u. k, with nearly $19000000000.00. it also reports that germany has $17000000000.00 invested fronts, $16000000.00 and easily, well, most, $13000000000.00 germany has pushed back on the plan to use frozen russian assets. it physically could set a precedent and lead to new lawsuits against the country for world war 2 crimes. berlin has paid $90000000000.00 in payments this compensation to holocaust survivors and their families. the us roughly has $5000000.00 in russian assets and is unlikely to seize them without the agreements of the group of 7 nations out of your opinion. the issue will be discussed at the upcoming g 7 summit in italy in june. well, joining us now from brussels is to raise or follow on. she's the director of the

center for russia, europe, and asian studies, and is a senior fellow of the chicago council on global affairs, a very well welcome to accounting the call. so the us very much covering it alone with these measures against russia. how are they being viewed back in europe and is the you likely to follow suit? it was inside the us. there's even consternation about this. some legal scholars would argue that this move is unlawful, nevertheless, a good set of dangerous precedents for other u. s. allies. for example, israel from the european perspective. as you noted, germany is very concerned about war, reparations that poland and greece routine lead past 4 and japan, which is part of the g 7, is also concerned how south korea would ask for war reparations. so this could just be one way of bringing russia to the negotiating table. it's difficult at this moment to know how much of it is current and how much of it is sick. of course,

russia has several potential leave is the pool itself as well, given as we mentioned in the introduction that how much your pin money is deep in to the russian economy. what are the repercussions of russia hitching back for the years? or they have been seizing assets from various companies, and others are quietly continuing to do work in russia. so they want to preserve their already existing investments. we saw at the beginning of the war, the oil industry just pulled out and left like 25000000 on the table. so they understood that this might be a long term war, where someone middle sent companies from germany and italy is also a very deeply concerned about their enterprises. so this is a lever that can be used by russia to kind of divide and conquer european opinion on this. this will be, i imagine that there will be some sort of a compromise agreement, worked out at the g 7, control sure. in any way,

pushed back legally against this attempt to make the country pay for the invasion, paying for the ongoing conflict. and you can it is an unprecedented and international law. so there are some legal questions and if we start pulling on some of the tapestry of international legal agreements, the whole thing might unravel. so russia has complained that this is a form of international piracy. and they, they really thought that by parking a lot of their assets abroad, that they wouldn't be safe. so this is also being watched very closely and carefully by being who is also trying to learn ways to, to protect their assets, should any prostrate crisis with taiwan, blow up into conflict. you mentioned to beijing that because one of the things noticed since the start of the conflict is the direction that moscow is now looking when it, when it comes to its investments and the increasing exports. looking very much to china looking very much to india. i wonder what happens to global trade shirts. the

wrong leave is be pulled too soon, perhaps by the e u. and by the united states. i think europe is very apprehensive. they have made it very clear. they're not going to do anything this year on this that they might consider it in 2025. so they're kind of crossing the river by feeling the stones to see how this will move. i think the us is trying to kind of pull them along by passing this legislation, but it's unclear what action to us will take right now. i think they are trying to pull other countries within to influence them. but there's also demands by central eastern european leaders, fearful that with the new trump administration should he, when deluxe the us selection of, that's all bets are off. so putting his gambling that trump will be re elected, and that's, he'll have a better outcome. so there's a, a time element involved in all of this as well. so i think there's a big gamble going on here and we'll see how he plays that plays it out. if he can spend this as long as possible with the europeans waiting to see how the election

turns out as well. so they're not willing to stick their neck out either. but as you're, as you know, that in your early or uh, programming, that's the most of the russian assets are parts throughout europe. so that you're really has a lot at state care. us is only about 5 to 6000000000. now there's probably close 217000 individual sanctions against russia were imposed by the us and paul and the countries. despite an exodus of hundreds of major international companies, mcdonald's ikea to name a few, the in special money fund expects roches economy. you never the less to to grow in 2024. i'm almost double. that's of what the united kingdom is expected to achieve. sanctions appear not to really hit the mock and most scale have a exactly, and we've seen incredible ability of russia to get around sanctions. we've seen increases, for example,

300 percent exports from projects done and armenia for example. so countries that companies are finding routes to get around sanctions. so this is going to be a big issue. this also sends a positive message to beijing that proposed sections or promise sections who they do anything might not really be as watertight as, as they might have expected, prior to their observed experience. but russia has gone through, so there's a will, there's a way, and we've also seen a lot of, you know, russia has a oil that they've been able to explore it in the brace on way, which is actually quite dangerous for the environment. there's a lot of leakage, but they've had a lot of money coming in from that. and they're, they're backed by china. they have a lot of increased trade with china. china has been filling back out and are questions about how much china is actually eating. rushes a base for keeping up the we're and you can. right to raise a file and great to have you on counting the costs. thank you. i think you sell up

or vanish from american stools. president joe biden has signed a bill that could lead to a nationwide bottom take talk if it's chinese or in a bind does, doesn't divest from the app. but the deadline is in about a year's time. that's off to the 2024 election. politicians of worried tech talk may shift sensitive use a data with the chinese government. the company is always denying the allegations and says it will challenge what it calls an unconstitutional law in cold. well, the stakes are high for take talk, losing its biggest market with a 170000000 uses. the video sharing app helps generate billions of dollars for more than $7000000.00 american businesses. as opposed to move in to 124000 jobs. the legal by 4 could take mama, so he is to settle. meanwhile, take talk will likely still be available in the us in the band take talk in 2021 other countries including britain, australia kind of the in front of bloated on official devices. we'll discuss all of

this. joining me now from berlin is frederica kinda so, you know, she's a tech policy expert, a very well welcome to you. so let me start by asking you, this was the us. what is the us write about it's fee is around to take talking his parent company by does i think the fears are correct. the responds raises some really serious questions and can set a bad precedent. so they're basically 2 main concerns about tick tock. the 1st one is like any other social media app, tick, tock, class connect, vast amounts of data. and the fear is that because the chinese government has a lot of influence over companies, territory like by dance, the theories that the chinese government could access data and over a 170000000 us americans. so that's the privacy issue. the 2nd step is about meditation. in the election into parents take service on popular because of the algorithm is really good at recommending content. it's very hard to see from the

out send how and why content is recommended and how content is being moderated. again, the american fear here is that this means that the app could be influenced by the chinese government to spread misinformation for censorship and to influence the election. so those are the concerns. however, there are many things to us government could do. instead of bending the app wholesale, if the button does go into force, it won't be for at least 9 months time. and the assumption is that there may well be some illegal pushback from take talk. and his parent company by don says, well, it does pay the question that for this, this purely a political move, especially as want to former us president donald trump seemed keen on binding take talk to don't think this is a purely political move. it seems to be a bipartisan support or bi partisan concern about tip top. trump try to ban the trump tried to ban the up and he was in office. it failed to do a legal challenge. now this is the 2nd attempt at banding,

the app we will expect legal challenges coming from takes up who claim that a band violates the 1st amendment. so i don't think it's cynical, they're real concerns. it's still a very bold move to just van and, and tie up when the united states, for instance, could implement the comprehensive data privacy law that currently doesn't exist. the us could implement a platform law or platform regulations such as the european union has that would for us all social media apps including takes up to be much, much more transparent about how they operate. microsoft, oracle even need lots of being the slightest potential buyers of take talk. how to go about buying a company like this. how much does it even cost? i think 1st of all, the question is would by dentist, even one to sell take talk. so the chinese government passed the law, that means the government has to agree to any purchase of critical technology and

take talk and it's algorithm have been deemed critical. so the 1st question is with the chinese government even agreed to establish, take the, the 2nd one is the price tag. a take talk of us is take talk, largest market already set 170000000 jews us. last year, the financial times reported 60000000000 in sale. they are very few american companies that could even afford a purchase of an athletic talk. given the number of uses in the united states and indeed the globally, those bank, the question, what sort of impact of bond on 6 on that i would have on small businesses for instance. but use take talk is a really important marketing tool. for instance. what we've seen from other countries in india has been take talk a few years ago. we've seen that a small businesses influences move on to other platforms. not all people have a large file or not take talk have the same following, let's say on instagram. on other apps, so there's

a question whether some people lose out in this move, but we've generally seen a cheaper shift to other apps when an outcome send. is there any scope, you know, so would, is there any scope here, sorry to interrupt for china to potentially retaliate if uh, this button goes ahead. a lot of china, a lot of american apps already banned in china. i think it's definitely not a positive step towards good us, chinese relationships. okay, frederica, come figured out great to have you on counsel the costs money. thanks. thank you. what else i show for this week get in touch with us on the x, fully known as switzer needs baka, and to use the hash tag a j, c t c. when you do or drop as an e mail account and the cost of that which is 0, don't net is a address. but there's more for you online that i'll just here a don't. com slash c t c. cancel the cost. that will take you straight to our page, which has individual reports, links and into episode speaking,

to catch up on quote out soon for this edition of counting the cost on these pocket and from the whole team. thanks for joining us. the news is next. you'll notice here the there's a deliberate mission of how simian humanity in western and it needs to be question to this is not the time to, to mr. kind of way. examining the effect that news coverage can have on democracies everywhere. here at the listing the best, there is no channel that covers world news like we do, we revisit places the state houses are really invested in that. and that's a privilege. as a journalist, the amazon home to indigenous people and diverse ecosystems is being destroyed by relentless drilling for oil. they're living in direct contact with petroleum, prepare, border, and swell in ecuador,

communities of fighting the corporate joy in a battle for survival, and to save the love of the world. how does ears use ears during the fine glass in the brazilian amazon, a star trail of the ongoing tragedy faced by the gentle money people? for years they have borne the brunt of the legal mining activities. their rivers poisoned with mercury, rendering water, drinkable and fish inedible. in 2023, pressed and losing us, one of us to send a national task force to expel the invaders from the reserved. more than the year has gone by and nothing has changed or illegal miners return. every day we see their pines coming and going present lula has promised to help deforestation to increase the number of indigenous reserves for self indigenous people here say they've come to realize that having government support is not enough. they are

still facing strong resistance from the powerful form lobby in congress. to the state vill expand the fight from their villages to the countries court rooms and electing their own politicians to save their lives. the of israel looks to seize control of the border crossings in southern concepts offered votes to go ahead with an operation in rafa. despite warnings from the us, the con, carry jones to the ssl. is there a lot from tow side coming up the sort live celebrations in garza of to have mass success spot proposal. israel says it doesn't need to.