a car salons prepared to vote on sunday, they will be facing a choice. continuing with the pro separate as government opt for change under pro spanish unity leadership city. 70 years ago this region was plunged into chaos as a referendum that was declared illegal, was held in a bit to separate in spain. it triggered off one of the most serious constitutional crises in spain. since the return to democracy, with the full or against independence feelings ran high. there's pushing the succession, engaged in a power struggle against spanish. he knew this well, leaders of the independence movement were arrested, tried and imprisoned for that pos in the referendum. the regional president academy squeeze them on, went into self imposed exile, where he remains risking the rest. if he was who were to the regional president cobbler squeeze the want, went into self imposed exile where he remains risking arrest. if you were to return

to spain and adjusted las veins. prime minister pedro sanchez issued a pardon and released the other convict to separate his qualifications in 2021. he held a bond on the holding public office. a controversial honesty deal. he struck with a separatist has gone some way to call me the tension between madrid and buffalo to get throughout the time while the desire for independence has diminished and other issues all taking precedence. yoshi instead of industry to me, i want to see a change. the issue of independence has been, i've done some of the issues have been neglected to say no, there are more important things to focus on, like employment and social welfare. they could have done that, but they haven't because of these elections. so those who say that the dream of an independent catalonia is a false long prospect. there are those who believe it is the only credible future for the region usually can see. but as he does, it was him only because he was done,

but loose the regard to simone and everything he did. it is important that you have, especially since some time has passed. so we can achieve independence in a called more fashion. regardless of where they sit on the debate, most people his say that should be a legitimate referendum on the matter. to resolve this question, once unfurl with a pro spanish unity socialist policy leading in the polls, the appetite for an independent catalonia may not be enough for those wary of the instability. san diego alger 0 also right now not set for me as a whole rom, and you can find out more information, not all the stories that we're covering by looking onto a website at all. just that dot com is updated throughout the day. i'll be back with more news and just the last time, next is upfront. do statements the i'm cuz some direction is deliberate, over $300000000.00 will suffice. be more than $75.00 countries around the world,

100 percent of set on an emergency donation. spence on projects and we ensure beneficiaries come 1st of the 300 on luis, haven't had gone through the bumps the crossing in recent months. our most of these bless and be blessed and we all turning your donations into direct delivery in the shortest possible time donates with confidence as palestinians. believe rafa following israel's latest assault on the guides of strip will challenge the support of israel, who believes is really military's contacting guys. it has been just for the 1st in march. you, as president joe biden said that an invasion of rough up would be a red line in the united states of support for israel. so we'll divide the administration finally, take decisive action terrain in israel. and with a growing discontent within the administration itself, have an impact on policy will be asking those questions to a former spokesperson for the us state department. last week became the 1st career

diplomat to resign in protest of bite and support for israel. this was headliner, colorado, the hello, right. thank you so much for joining us upfront. thank you so much for having me, mark. how like you, you've had an extensive career in u. s. foreign service. last week you became the 1st career diplomat to resign over the united states as policies toward israel, particularly the continued assault on guys of now israel siege, of course, has led to the desk to more than 34000 people. and it's destroyed much of the territory. after 18 years in the state department. how did you arrive at this decision? honestly marked it was an agonizing decision i never intended to resign. when i joined the foreign service, i expected it to be my career for the rest of my life, really until retirement. but unfortunately, presidents golf, the policy made it absolutely impossible. it was an indefensible policy. and it's

is a violation of international law of domestic law. and then the conscience, i could not continue amplifying this policy because for one it hurt us national security interest. and i was able to document that and it was clear that that was the case throughout the air world. it was also causing a generational cycle of pilots, as you noted the devastation for the palestinians, but also it failed to achieve any objectives to keep this really safer or get the hostages back. a. it was a failed militaristic policy. it continues to be a field policy and i could not in good conscience, stay within the system and promote this policy. israel has begun its invasion of the southern guys, a city of about 5 in march. you, as president joe biden had called rafa invasion, a red line for the united states that it was a step too far. that would prompt the us response. now the is your eyes crossed the

red line? do you think that the by the administration is going to change is the current stance. i certainly hope so, and i have to say that benjamin netanyahu announced the invasion of the house, right after secretary blinking was wheeled up from his trip into israel, where he again reiterated the us position, that they should not go into the considering the civilian population. but this is the frustration that's been with this policy this entire time. it's been just words . and diplomacy is an arts and you have to use your leverage and we haven't used any of the leverage that we have on as well. and so it is time now for president biden to take action. words are no longer sufficient. now is the time to leverage our influence by conditioning military aid at the very least, putting a sense of weaponry in line with us law. you know, at this point, there are many people who will look at the recent developments. for example,

this week, it was reported as us has halted the delivery of munitions to israel. the people who say, well, this is just a superficial move with this is just public relations that they're still going to try it out. those talking points that you mentioned that there are, that there's still to be empty, promises and leak. uh, you know, statements about buying this back door debates with nothing. yahoo! but at the end of the day, the status quote is going to maintain, how hopeful are you that things are changing and or, or, or, or not. this in march it's been, it's, it's very difficult. uh, i want to be helpful. i want to believe that they're going to take tangible steps, but at the same time, i've been in the service long enough to know that i'm not going to hold my breath until i actually see action. the whole was significant, but it was also a drop in the bucket and it was a policy shift. there continues to be rhetoric coming out of the white house and

out of the department saying that we're going to continue and we're going to amplify military assistance. now it's not the time for that, then ministration is to wake up and realize this military policy has been a failure on all fronts. have the same something to have it is in that vein, right? if it's unethical, if it's in humane all the people or die, if it is bad for us security interest, if it is bad for israel's interest is all the things you've just said. why are we continuing with the status, quoting this, the $1000000.00 question, right? because there's been ample analysis coming from the field a bit. this public knowledge at this point from diplomats not just me, but from multiple sources. and even if the under us government, i mean for every interest has every single international organization calling for a sustain ceasefire. yet the by didn't ministration and present invited himself continues to insist on this policy. our role as diploma is to provide information

to washington that helps guide policy. but clearly the foreign policy is being made elsewhere. i fundamentally believe that our system domestically is, has issues. politicians should not be able to profit from war. for example, the people deciding whether or not we send military assistance to a foreign country should not be the ones also getting campaign contributions from the arms industry or from lobbying groups that represent foreign governments. as a diploma, i have to have, i had to have an open book. my life was a complete open book. they know everything about us as rightly so, because we're serving the people, we're serving the country. we can't be making any profit off of our work. personally, we're doing everything we're doing for the country and for the people in the united states. it should be the same for politicians and as a diploma, i could not help the super, frustrated with the realities of our domestic political process. and it's undue

influence on our foreign policy. the speaking of policy, internal criticism of us policy is not necessarily new. in fact, you've said before that robust discussion is what leads. 1 to change is what keeps the wheels turning. it's the norm with respect to the situation in gaza. however, you've mentioned that officials are afraid to voice disagreement against that prevailing policy. why is there a kind of climate of fear around this issue as it does, is coming from the top down directly from the top down. and when there's a situation like that, which in my 18 year career has been unprecedented, it's very difficult to shift things or even provide a contrary in analysis. so when i voice concern repeatedly, i was silent. i was sideline. there were actions taken against me. it has

a chilling effect. so when i hear about your or deal, when i hear about your resignation and the reason why i'm left to wonder and i know many people watching are left to wonder. is it even possible to change u. s. foreign policy in israel from within the i don't want to be hopeless. we are seeing a lot of churn within the department. clearly and within the interagency, there was supposed to be a determination today from the department to congress, whether or not as well was violating human rights. that submission has been delayed indefinitely, which i wonder why, but there is, there are a lot of good people in the department trying to do good work and trying to push back on the administration in ways that were advocating for the united states at the end of the day that's our job or advocating for us interest. so what our role is is to help the secretary or the president make informed decisions. and we're

doing everything we can to do that. but in, at the end of the day they have, they have to make the call and they have to take action. not just change. right, right. hello. right, thank you so much for joining us and upfront. thank you so much. was the israel's war on gaza has been going on for 7 months and just hours after from us agree to a cease fire proposal is real large to ground invasion and seize control of the border crossing in or off, or where within 1000000 palestinians had been sheltering meanwhile, here in the united states the correct down against campus protesters, calling for an end to us support for israel is more on gaza. continues. students have faced violence from the police. they've been arrested, they've been suspended, and some have even been expelled. jeremy, now to discuss this is about to younger sar. guarantee is the opinion editor at newsweek and believes that is really military's conduct and gaza has been just

thank you for joining us. let's talk about what's going on right now. israel has killed nearly 35000 palestinians number that includes more than a 13000 children the head of the world food program now has stated that then the northern guys entered a mode of full blown famine. you made the case that israel had the right to respond to the october 7th for master techs. at this point though, do you see is your response as proportional? yeah, absolutely. um, 1st of all, the numbers that you cited we get from had asked which, you know, has an interest in inflating the numbers. in fact, how mass itself released a report on telegram about a month ago in which it stated that it cannot account 411000 of the people that they thought had been killed. effectively reducing the number to 22000 by how mass is own count. what proportion it means is, it's not the proportion of civilian casualties on either side that we are comparing

proportion and a war is the number of civilian casualties, proportionate to the operation. and when you think about the number of have mass militants, israel has killed relative to the a tragic civilian casualties. it's very clear that that number is waste in the realm of what we have considered to be just war for, you know, modern history that you so a couple of points. uh 1st. um the, the guys in health ministry historically has been very accurate with its depth reports. they held up to you and numbers within 4 percent of they've helped to israel's own scrutiny. in the past, they fill it out to the west bank palestinian authorities a numbers of course, they're not friends with for math. so if it, whether it's israel, whether it's the west bank or whether it's outside international bodies, these numbers tend to be pretty accurate as far as the, the 11000 number that you mentioned. i read the telegram in english and in arabic.

and it wasn't that they couldn't account for the bodies, they just want to additional information, identifying those people. so i just wanna be clear, i want people to think that somehow somebody started missing 11000 bodies and it beat inflated the numbers. there's no evidence of it, but to your more fundamental point, which i think is an interesting one. we've seen some things that seem to be outside the boundaries of just war and countless seem right them servers have documented how the attacks in you guys have been somewhat indiscriminate, a residential buildings being found, schools, a refugee camps, hospitals, you know, even journals have been targeted how do you make sense of it? i think the word targeted there is being misused. there are always tragic tragic occurrences in any war and what we have to what we have to determine in the case of israel and gaza is, are these war crimes, or is this just war which is always horrific?

yeah, there are always tragedies in war. israel requires for any military attack to independently verify pieces of intelligence to attack a building or even more so for a school or for a civilian building. you know, i'm curious what you think of the fact that israel has not entered a single hospital in gaza in which they did not find evidence, but how mass had been using it to a certain degree. now you might say, they've inflated the number of things they would have expected to find there. that they said there was going to be, you know, some huge compound and that maybe they didn't find it. and some of these cases, the ones that was on the box of dates i was like, you know, if i look under a, a hospital like i ship them for example, and i see, you know, minimal evidence of, of a from mass presents there. it makes me say, or this isn't a military target but, but that, but there's a bigger point here that i want to get at which to your point for example,

are israel's october 9th, right? when did you buy the refugee camp and killed 39 people according to the you and office of a high commission on human rights is real provided no military objective. they provided no advance warnings. this is an example where this seems to be indiscriminate and certainly outside the boundaries of law. the vast majority of the operation has been based on not a single button on to independently verify pieces of evidence that a situation is used by hum us any military way. now, of course, how would you explain these really represent me? 39 people's a large number, how would you explain it? then? this is a war, right? but there was no military objective and no advance warning or those 2, those 2 things can be defensive. but um, i'm not, i'm, i can't recall that specific event, but i can, i mean, there was, even from his rails point of view, they killed 3 hostages in an accident during one of these operations. that obviously was not intentional, right?

it would make sense to me, they're killing $39.00 people with no military objective. advance warning seems different to me, but, but let me give you another example of october 31st is really a military air strike happens when a 6 story apartment building a new, the new sonata refugee camp in central gas, is that one killed a $106.00 civilians including $54.00 children, according to human rights watch. no evidence of a military target in the vicinity of the building at the time of the attack, and is really far as of effort. no justification for the attack means of large numbers. how do we explain that? does that give you pause at least no, because you know, this is a war and in a war you have to go on the evidence that you have on the intelligence that you are there. also you evidence, and the vast majority of israel's operations and guys that have been based on a lot of intelligence, they've significantly weak and her mazda is ability to organize and to holley against them, that i hear you saying the majority. but i give you another example in february, a group of you in special preparatory to express their concern about the quote deliberate targeting an extra traditional killing of palestinian women and children

in places where they sought refuge or while fleeing. some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by these really army. again, they are for every sort of claim that this is the just war and that you know, bad things happen in war. there are just numerous instances where they seem to be clear violations of the rules of war, clear violations of international law, clear war crimes being committed. is it possible that 2 things are true, right? that there are some unfortunate casualties that happened. maybe the house that situation that you're describing. but at the same time, the also israel has committed some more crimes here. and there's probably at the end of this going to be evidence that israel has committed some more crimes. there has never been a war in which they were not work. crimes committed to that does not get to the heart of whether this is a just war and whether as i keep saying, the vast majority of the operation has been done. according to the rules of international law, but of course there has never been award without war crimes and there will be evidence of those. the shooting of the 3 hostages is of course, you know,

very good example of one that even i think is where i would acknowledge. so do support then a full scale investigation of is really work arms as um, of course, i mean, why would we not? who would not want that? you'd be surprised how many guests have had one who say just the opposite? let's talk about these campus partners. i wanna talk to that because that's obviously something that's incredibly important in the united states conversation right now. you refer to students protesting as quotes into fido revolutionary wannabe's saying, ok, i hear you having a bit. i mean, it's an interesting try to frame you say that they're a privilege, quite cast, engaging and self indulgent narcissism where they chat and to find a revolution, right? like, what would you, i mean, they check their check, that's their chance, right? so i'm laughing because of the water and these part because like a someone who lived through the actual empty bottle like, you know, they need, it's like, i don't think that they're actually dangerous, but i think that they wish they were in a way because they chance into follow revolution, right? that's like what, what, what do you think that mean by like vibes or um it's,

it's an interesting question. i guess what i was curious about was you equating the anti war protests to narcissism and self and don't ask, well that's a problem. i'm yeah, yeah. cuz cuz i, i'm outraged about it actually because hausteen's deserve but advocates and this is not that. and the reason i know that is because i look at what doctor king did, which was appealed to the common humanity in every person and say you are like me and i am like you. and i know that together this nation is better than what we are right now and can be. and he managed to change the nation to me, what these people are doing is the opposite. they're not showing up and saying, you know, the occupation is unbearable, right? how can we create a situation where israel will no longer be doing that? how can we convince the most amount of people in the us but also in israel, which is like the stakeholder here and the person who has looked into it and see it

has control over it. so that this is the wrong way. and here is a different path, they are not trying to appeal to the broadest swats of the american people and changed our minds. they're doing the opposite. they're intentionally using extremely violent, vile, and triggering language to limit the number of people who are going to agree with their cause to limit it so that they can feel moral superiority over everyone who doesn't agree with them. and i think that that's already just a couple couple thoughts. um the, the 1st thing i think the difference with the king argument is that in okay was, was convincing his fellow citizens. yeah. mystically on it kind of civil response to structural injustice internally. i think that's different than kings response say to the vietnam war. he wasn't challenging the campus protest when king died and 68, he wasn't saying we shouldn't be on college campuses protesting the war. it was our war. we are not fighting in god a funding it though, and that's, that's that's, that's literally our, that's the argument. are we the just to me that's the argument of the students are

making. they're saying that we're funding it to our tax dollars. we are sending weapons, and the universities that they're at are literally investing in these real estate. and so they're calling for our divestment movement. they're saying we're complicit and we want to stop by complaints. but what we are actually doing, and this is the way the vast majority of american c a is we are helping an ally that does actual work for as a bad majority. yeah. 80 percent of americans back israel over on us. yeah. but, but, but 55 percent disapprove of visuals wash in gaza, a 70 percent support a permanent ceasefire. and the escalation, the bylaws does not support a permanent fees. and that's and yahoo, i support department and fees by use of use and not this minute, but you need to. a that is not what they're talking. no, i mean of course the boards pays. yeah. the guys crazy like that. it was not saying that is what they're saying. they're saying we like it and we want peace, but not a permanent ceasefire. everybody want to say no to that. people who believe that

a permanent ceasefire is not possible because they believe that from us is perpetually violent. and that the only way they can, we can be controlled is by israel, maintaining a back to control and effectively in apartheid domination of all the historic power . so that's what lots of personal logs but, but again, 52 percent. believe it in u. s. commission. how weapons shipments, the israel, until israel stops the attack, them above the o. it's entail israel stops. the question was, should america, i mean the, the pull that i thought should america cease halls, shipments of weapons to israel until israel stops hosting humanitarian aid. we don't, uh gotcha. and it's just not accurate. i'll read the questions. okay, that is the study that i saw with. there's 2 more than one study and the one i read and i'm calling from says do you think that the us should stop weapon shipments? the israel until israel discontinued it's a tax on the people of guys that input and 52 percent said yes, because the 27 percent of the people of gauze are they are on how mass and how massive infrastructure and how mass militants. but then they're there been other people who have, who have made the claim that we're not at war with,

from as what war with the state of guys, we're at war with the palestinian people say stupid things. i'm. yeah, but some of them are and yeah, the people and the people in our government phase different things the john bolton, for example, we can't just say all people say crazy things. if you're the, if you're the architect inform policy that's different. i'm telling people and nothing else in the cabinet or thing, the stuff. yeah, you have to show that it's had an actual impact on the way that the war is being executed. and what i did earlier i, i showed all the different, the refugee camps, the hospitals, the indiscriminate strikes that are killing dozens of people. i'm just going to give you an example here. a retired major general uh your uh, island. uh, also former head of national security council and the current advisor to the defense of ministers is this isn't just some retired guy was just talking from his chair. he clearly stated on november 19th that the whole guys and civilian population was a legitimate target, and that quote, severe epidemics in the south of the guys district will bring victory closer. so

even the epidemics and then in the, in the south, are seen as evidence of defeating the quote unquote interviews. epidemics aren't happening just from awesome. awesome, and just carvings, a mazda and just getting 6. he said, israel is not fighting against a terrorist organization, but against the state of guys, the business, the advisor to the minister of the place. you deny that how mass has a political wing that runs the state of gaza. i mean, the state meaning, like the political wing of had us just deny that no, that here's the problem. if you say we're fighting against all of the palestinians, they're all a legitimate target and i'm not finding it from asthma. if i, the one should say everybody's a target, i don't think that's what it is, but i don't need to defend that. i need to defend the id s operation. and for the connection between i, there is no connection between that. because i know that the idea is not responding to what the square, no, looking at. how are it's and he's for out of the to do this, isn't,

this isn't the charge. it doesn't get off my law. this is the end of advisors administer the what the idea of has done on the ground. yeah, it's a fact that they have issued millions and millions of warnings. i mean, this has never happened in the history of warfare before, where a military is literally telegraphing to the enemy, what they are about to do in order to warn civilians to get them out of harm's way . that has never happened before in the history of warfare. but a military is literally warning the enemy to protect the enemy's civilian what, what we have seen it before. we've seen it in sir, we've seen in the rocks. right. so the degree that these are really great and i was, i was respect your initial claim, which is that no, my armies ever done it, but the 2 millions and millions and millions of messages, warnings, multiple warnings, literally allowing their targets to escape to protect the civilian population, i mean, does that not have any merit with you? do not think that's deserving of like, it's like recognition that people should recognize that that happens. so. so i

think this isn't extraordinary to get to allow civilian population. so normally the extent to which the idea of go with is extraordinary. all right, but unfortunately we're out of time, so we have to leave it there by the younger started on thank you so much for joining me on upfront. everybody. that's our show upfront. we'll be back the what we do and all just sarah is try to balance the stories and he's the people who allow us into their lives, dignity, and democracy. the

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rafa by the international court of justice to old as well to cease its military.